How old is too old to join the EE field?

[optoisolated]

So I'm a first time poster.  I've been dabbling in electronics at a hobby level since I was a teenager, and have always enjoyed the engineering processes and technologies. I've always considered a career change to electronics engineering but not sure if it's even possible. I am 33 and wanted to get the forums opinion on whether or not 33 is too old to change paths and get into the EE field professionally? Is it possible? What would some of the hurdles and pitfalls be?

[zerorisers]

I personally think that that is not too old to get into the field. as long as you can get your degree in a college or university then you can get into the EE field. I'm in high-school still and the company Drift America RC is having me work on a small design for them. luckily it is relatively simple and will probably take a few micro-controllers, At least with how I am doing it. If you show the knowledge you can probably get small jobs like this but working towards a bachelors degree would be much more valuable and show any company you have the know-how to do the job, and do it right.

I hope this post has been useful,
zerorisers

[coppice]

It would help to know where you are starting from. What is your background? If you are already in a physics or engineering discipline your prospects for changing to electronics are a lot different from those of an accountant.

[rx8pilot]

I made the jump from hobbyist to making a living in EE at 40. This followed mechanical engineering and manufacturing careers, among others.

I can now think of an idea, shake it down, design it, engineer the mechanics and electronics together, design and write the software (my first career), and then manufacture it without having to rely on others. Keep in mind, my goal is to 'invent' things and get them to the point of manufacture. I am not really great in any specific engineering discipline to be honest, but there is no real reason I could not focus on something to become an expert if I choose. At 33 years old, you can switch careers a few times if you wanted.

The key, is that you have to be seriously dedicated. Unless you are already wealthy, you have to make a living and get your education at the same time. You also have to build some experience beyond just a degree. As an employer, I am VERY skeptical of fresh graduates. This is from personal experience trying to hire recent grads coming from good schools. The classes will teach theory, math, some ideal circuits, analysis, etc. To be effective in the real world, someone like me would be looking at what you can actually do, not just how well you did on a test.

I could go on and on about how many useless recent grads applied when I was hiring. Very smart and very useless while also expecting to get paid a ton of money because they have a degree. Note to those in engineering school - employers make money from your performance not your degree. be prepared to show that you solve problems and you will be more likely to get hired.

Anyway, back to the topic. Go for it, dive in. Make it happen. 

[LabSpokane]

I started my EE at nearly the same age.  You have plenty of time.  I did have an advantage of already having one degree and enough engineering pre-reqs from that that I only needed 2 1/2 years to finish.  If that is what you love and want to do, by all means let nothing get in your way.  And if you want it, there IS a way. 

Go for it!

If you can tell us what your background is, we can help you with the hurdles.  A EE degree is very math intensive.  You will do matrices until you puke.  The key to doing this on exams is to know your calculator very well.  Being an old reverse Polish guy, I slogged through with my old HP48.  It was slow and a PITA, but it saved me from learning a new calculator. 

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.  You will have to work extra hard on those, because forgetting those tricks is a real time-killer for both homework and exams.  $15 spent on a Schaum's ( http://www.amazon.com/Schaums-Outline-Mathematical-Handbook-Formulas/dp/0071795375/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1427337615&sr=8-13&keywords=schaums+mathematics ) will be a lifesaver. 

[coppice]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.  You will have to work extra hard on those, because forgetting those tricks is a real time-killer for both homework and exams.

If you were ever any good at maths that stuff should come back to you quite quickly. If you were never any good at maths, expect nothing more than a technician job in any engineering discipline.

[optoisolated]

It would help to know where you are starting from. What is your background?

My background, career-wise, is IT sysadmin and software development. It's been a while since the High school math days however I did do pretty well in Maths C & Physics. I remember balking at Matrices when I was 17, thinking "Pfft, I'm never going to use these things!", and now want to go back and slap that guy in the face. I am assuming the fundamentals in that regard haven't changed greatly. Apart from the mnemonics used to help learn them, perhaps.

The key, is that you have to be seriously dedicated.

I'd totally agree with this; it's something I'd been mulling over for quite some time. I've done pretty well in the IT world and thing I am ready for another challenge. Because it's something I've always been passionate about, I am pretty confident I have the drive to do the hard yards.. #TooManyCatchphrases

[beauty2003tt]

 
First of all, I'm a really beginner here.
Should I ask where can I post here?
I did not find the button of "Post"...
Really need your help

[IanB]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I'm not sure this is important. Knowing some basic things, sure, but mathematics is more about analytical skills and conceptual understanding and less about remembering formulas or identities. Engineering is above all a creative field and knowing things by rote is only of the most elementary use. It would be like knowing how to mix paints and hold a paint brush rather than knowing how to paint. Sure, artists know how to hold a brush, but that is not what makes them good painters.

[EEVblog]

I personally think that that is not too old to get into the field. as long as you can get your degree in a college or university then you can get into the EE field.

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

[f5r5e5d]

Analog electronics really depends on math assuming Calculus, Differential Equations and some Linear Algebra to get through Linear Systems/Circuit Theory, Signals and Systems, and Feedback Control undergraduate course material
RF E&M requires more Vector Calculus, Calculus of Complex Variables if you need to get into Antennas and Waves - but only a minority of EE go there

while there's lots of material on the subjects, even course material for free today - it is the very rare individual who can learn that totally on their own - classes, face-to-face interaction with instructors, tutors, peers still seems to be the better fit to most people's effective learning

[mtdoc]

I am 33 and wanted to get the forums opinion on whether or not 33 is too old to change paths and get into the EE field professionally? Is it possible? What would some of the hurdles and pitfalls be?

I'm not an EE but I don't think 33 is too old at all. i was 34 when I started med school - it was a second career for me. I'm 52 now and have no regrets - despite the fact that I'm still paying student loans off! I say go for it!

[pickle9000]

5962 ..... Did I get it right? What do I win?

[nanofrog]

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

How common is this now though? 

I ask, as it seems HR at most places have a "degree only" policy these days.

[KJDS]

42

[blackbird]

You are never to old. In my childhood I played around with some electronics, influenced by my father who was a HAM at the time. At the time I played a lot with the Philips 6000 electronic kits (http://ee.old.no/abc/). Later I was employed in the mechanical field (aircraft maintenance and test engineer specialized in turboprops). Now I'm 40 years old and last year I started a bachelor study in embedded system engineering and electronics.

So, never to old to start 

[coppice]

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

How common is this now though? 

I ask, as it seems HR at most places have a "degree only" policy these days.

These days a degree of some sort seems to be an HR gating point for even simple jobs. It doesn't necessarily have to be a relevant degree. If you have a degree with some relevance you should be a long way to satisfying basic educational HR gating conditions. A lot of EEs, especially microwave ones, have physics degrees, which is a relevant degree if not bang on target. I know people with maths degrees who work as EEs, mostly in comms and other signal processing.

[nanofrog]

If you have any other science or engineering degree, then HRs won't give you any trouble, providing you have enough knowledge in EE.

Many of my friends are EE, but work as CS or CE. Also, some MechE or CE end up as EE.

These days a degree of some sort seems to be an HR gating point for even simple jobs. It doesn't necessarily have to be a relevant degree. If you have a degree with some relevance you should be a long way to satisfying basic educational HR gating conditions. A lot of EEs, especially microwave ones, have physics degrees, which is a relevant degree if not bang on target. I know people with maths degrees who work as EEs, mostly in comms and other signal processing.

Of course. But they still have degree's.

I'm talking about those that may not have finished, fully self-taught, ... that = no degree but still know what they're doing and would more than be capable of doing the job being hired for (they may be rare, but they do exist; Jim Williams for example immediately comes to mind).

[Wilksey]

You need a degree to work in Mcdonalds these days, doesn't mean it makes you a better burger flipper!

You could do some kind of apprenticeship perhaps?

I must admit i've never been too hot on the degrees (pardon the pun) some of the smaller companies do not seem to mind too much if you don't have one, and they tend to be the ones (in the UK anyway) that have the most interesting and challenging work, larger companies are a bit monotonous in their work, too many cooks and all that!

To answer your question, no you are not too old, as long as you have a passion for what you want to do, believe in yourself and build confidence in your chosen field.

The good thing about being able to do software, general IT (including networking) and electronics is that you can pretty much get a career anywhere if you can find the right job, but worst case, go back to what you were doing and stick to hobby electronics if it doesn't work out.

[zerorisers]

I personally think that that is not too old to get into the field. as long as you can get your degree in a college or university then you can get into the EE field.

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

My post is more based on what some companies requirements may be, But yes; As long as you can show what you can do and prove you can do it well a company may consider you more than a fresh graduate. I am personally going for me degree so that I can have a professional education. I know you aren't into the research portion of things when it comes to using physics for it. At least according to what you have said on the amp hour. I want to learn those physics and figure out how everything works on that deep of a level but also learn how newer electronics work. I still have piss poor understanding of how you can pull a particular frequency and convert it in a way to show on an LCD. Hoping To Go to Collin County College to get a few core classes done and then go to UTD to finish up my electronics engineering. While I am doing so I am also messing with micro-controllers and making a product for Drift America RC. So yes, Some companies do not require a degree, So yes; You are correct in this.

[katzohki]

I've seen that repeatedly. HR won't even read your resume if you don't have a degree. It just goes straight into the circular file. Many companies are like that, especially when there is a lot of competition for the job. My company is like that sometimes.

The best entry into engineering without a degree is through the technician route. Test technician, electronics tech, engineering tech etc. Eventually you prove your knowledge and what you are worth.

[IanB]

I've seen that repeatedly. HR won't even read your resume if you don't have a degree. It just goes straight into the circular file. Many companies are like that, especially when there is a lot of competition for the job. My company is like that sometimes.

The best way to avoid HR filters is to find direct connections to hiring managers inside a company, which really depends on networking and industry contacts. Hiring decisions are ultimately made by budget holders and their departmental staff and if they find the right candidate they will make every effort to make it happen.

[Seekonk]

I think it is a SERIOUS issue being that old.  This may be a regional thing, maybe not down under. When I was about 50 looking for a new job a head hunter told me he has a desk full of well qualified applicants and he couldn't get an interview for any of them because they were over 50.  HR gets 100's of applicants and has to sort them down to ten.  It is not their job to find the best, only to get that number down to ten.  That means wrong type format, feel of the paper, anything can get you eliminated.  Why it took you so long to find yourself, can you work with a boss that is half your age,  are you up on the latest trends, and will you expect more money than a kid.  Can you really make the money back this late in the game and can you take that potential layoff in a few years.  This is life, not a B movie where a plow horse wins the Kentucky Derby. 

[rx8pilot]

I thought it was said the OP is 33yrs.

Anyway, if HR has an unwritten rule book that only allows consideration for applicants under a certain age, it would be hard to get around that. Only an insider would know. I think it has more to do with attitude and actual demonstrated capability. The degree requirement is only the way to have your resume read. Getting the job is about what you can do for the company. If you are a jaded curmudgeon that is stuck in the 80's and knows little about current trends - you are doomed. In my case, I am the newcomer to the field but much older than most of the same experience. The difference is that I am a VERY aggressive problem solver with a wide range of actual experience that results in getting things done much faster and better than the younger, less experienced people. EE's that know nothing of software and software engineers that know nothing of hardware are not nearly as interesting as someone that knows both (to me anyway). There was a company that was trying to hire me recently because I have shown that I know things they want to know. I have designed things they do not know how to design. They didn't even know how to approach the problem. They have about 10 or so engineers on staff that have failed to solve a problem in a year so they wanted me since I know how to do it. Not a single mention of my academic pedigree and an offer was on the table.

Sell yourself.

If I was applying for a job right now, I would be focused on what I have done in the last year alone and would likely outshine the young players. The right company would see the benefit of my offering. The wrong company would say I am too old and hire 3 others to get the work done and I would not care. Clever interview questions and tests only reveal those that are good in academics. A real engineer can design and create the tests that define and solve the problems and make money.

[janaf]

IMO, if you have personal connections in the business, your age is no problem. In big business, the CV-way, you may have problems.

I did my MSc when I was 35, changed career at 50, again at 55. Thinking of taking up a sports career at 60...

[Mechatrommer]

...in EE... This followed mechanical engineering...I can now think of an idea, shake it down, design it, engineer the mechanics and electronics together, design and write the software (my first career), and then manufacture it without having to rely on others. Keep in mind, my goal is to 'invent' things and get them to the point of manufacture. I am not really great in any specific engineering discipline to be honest, but there is no real reason I could not focus on something to become an expert if I choose.

at last since all this while... another "mechatrommer" is spotted!

[LabSpokane]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I'm not sure this is important. Knowing some basic things, sure, but mathematics is more about analytical skills and conceptual understanding and less about remembering formulas or identities.

Bullshit. There is no time in a 50 minute closed book closed notes exam to derive fundamental identities from concepts. Either you know it and execute, or you fail. Maybe other people had less ball busting profs, we had no such luxuries.

[LabSpokane]

I personally think that that is not too old to get into the field. as long as you can get your degree in a college or university then you can get into the EE field.

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

I must strongly disagree. The Bachelors is the new High School diploma. If one wants a good engineering job in the states, a Masters is the new standard. No degree is just a non-starter here.

[Mechatrommer]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I'm not sure this is important. Knowing some basic things, sure, but mathematics is more about analytical skills and conceptual understanding and less about remembering formulas or identities.

Bullshit. There is no time in a 50 minute closed book closed notes exam to derive fundamental identities from concepts. Either you know it and execute, or you fail. Maybe other people had less ball busting profs, we had no such luxuries.

memorizing can help speeding things up, but its not the essence of mathematics, IanB is right about analytical skills and conceptual understanding, esp true in applied math field such as engineering, thats why in higher grade edu, you have open book text, there are too much to remember. i'm not sure in pure math arena, you have to prove your case by like saying you are pure mathematician and can memorize 7352 formula's and identities at a finger snap.

[Mechatrommer]

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

I must strongly disagree. The Bachelors is the new High School diploma. If one wants a good engineering job in the states, a Masters is the new standard. No degree is just a non-starter here.

in my area, master is nothing much than proving something is politically correct. not much offer for that kind of job. maybe the only reason to set it as standard is due to 1) bachelor is too cheap there, or 2) the country think it wants to be politically correct.

[lapm]

I would say your newer too old. Its about your brain and how smart you are then how young you are.

My personal tag line is: the day i stop being able to learn new things is day im dead and lying in table at morgue.. But at least then i have good reason 

[LabSpokane]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I'm not sure this is important. Knowing some basic things, sure, but mathematics is more about analytical skills and conceptual understanding and less about remembering formulas or identities.

Bullshit. There is no time in a 50 minute closed book closed notes exam to derive fundamental identities from concepts. Either you know it and execute, or you fail. Maybe other people had less ball busting profs, we had no such luxuries.

memorizing can help speeding things up, but its not the essence of mathematics, IanB is right about analytical skills and conceptual understanding, esp true in applied math field such as engineering, thats why in higher grade edu, you have open book text, there are too much to remember. i'm not sure in pure math arena, you have to prove your case by like saying you are pure mathematician and can memorize 7352 formula's and identities at a finger snap.

I never mentioned rote memorization. I said knowing. Two different skills. And open book open notes on a EE exam doesn't mean you don't have to know your shit before you sit down.

[dmills]

Without a degree, small companies are the way to go (Oh, and get an amateur radio ticket (the most advanced one your jurisdiction offers, not usually a difficult test), it together with being able to say you designed and built an all band HF set with some twists impresses the hell out of the better sort of senior engineer for some reason).

I ended up as junior man at a sonar company for a few years on the basis of having designed a set of passive crossovers for my hifi, and being able to talk about impedance matching (surprisingly relevant), and low noise design.
Low noise analogue is worth learning to do as well, because it is a sort of niche skill that most universities do not really teach, and when it matters they really need someone who can do it (High speed layout is the same, be good and the lack of a calfskin matters not a lot).

There will always be outfits that will not hire without the paper period, but the smaller players tend IME to be somewhat more flexible, and the jobs more varied, bet it costs me maybe £5,000/year, but I am still bumping higher rate tax....   
 
The nice thing about entering the field with an already 'interesting' CV is that you can go from junior man to senior electron whisperer in only a few job moves, and a few years.

The dirty little secret that nobody tells the undergrads is that almost all design these days is cookie cutter datasheet stuff, sure I can design a switched mode supply from component level without ICs, but why on earth would I want to?
Once in a blue moon you end up playing where the engineering meets the physics (That is fun), and very rarely you end up where the maths meets the physics (Scary place, also fun), but mostly it is cookie cutter data sheet stuff, the valuable skill is mostly up at the systems level, and knowing how the unwritten assumptions about whatever the task domain is will interact with the electronics.

Regards, Dan.

[IanB]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I never mentioned rote memorization. I said knowing.

You will have to forgive us for misunderstanding what you wrote there.

[jpb]

33 - you're a babe-in-arms!

I actually went the other way, I switched from Electronics (research) to Computer Science by going back to university at the age of 45!

The main issue if you want to train is that the loss of salary while training is more painful when you're going from a better paid job than when you do it before you've had a job at all but it all depends on your priorities. Also most people acquire responsibilities (family/mortgage etc) so it is more complicated to manage but then I think that older people have more staying power and commitment to overcome such obstacles.

[LabSpokane]

The young kids are going to beat you by knowing a lot of math identities by rote.

I never mentioned rote memorization. I said knowing.

You will have to forgive us for misunderstanding what you wrote there.

Sorry for my poor wording. I differentiate knowing and regurgitation. Two different skills.

[nanofrog]

The best way to avoid HR filters is to find direct connections to hiring managers inside a company, which really depends on networking and industry contacts. Hiring decisions are ultimately made by budget holders and their departmental staff and if they find the right candidate they will make every effort to make it happen.

This method has always landed the best jobs I've ever had. Even with a piece of paper, my experiences going through HR hasn't yielded as effective of results.

The Bachelors is the new High School diploma. No degree is just a non-starter here.

This is what I've observed as well.

Even small companies seem to have gotten on board by using employment agencies to fill positions.

[janaf]

Some related questions I'm sure you already thought of : do you have a family you need to support? Mortgage/loans? Economically independent? Do you risk something? Can you come back to your current field? I'm not asking for a reply 

[optoisolated]

do you have a family you need to support? Mortgage/loans? Economically independent? Do you risk something? Can you come back to your current field?

Very good questions indeed. The hardest one to work through for me personally is the financial position. Hence the attempting to work out if it's feasible for me to do it. If it's something I can enter without having to go through 4 ( years of University (which I would actually love to do), is the challenge. I've heard the stories of the hobbyist getting into the field though smaller design firms, or starting it on their own, both sound interesting and daunting.

[timofonic]

33 - you're a babe-in-arms!

I actually went the other way, I switched from Electronics (research) to Computer Science by going back to university at the age of 45!

The main issue if you want to train is that the loss of salary while training is more painful when you're going from a better paid job than when you do it before you've had a job at all but it all depends on your priorities. Also most people acquire responsibilities (family/mortgage etc) so it is more complicated to manage but then I think that older people have more staying power and commitment to overcome such obstacles.

Mine is worse!

I'm 30 and lack of education,  I was an undiagmosed ADHD that failed at most of his topics in life.

These days I managed to pass an entry exam and enter a vocational training school, buy it's very hard to arxhieve and I'm having a very great challenge by approving with second chance exams and finishing zillions of pending homework. I get distracted easily, severe sleep problems, anxiety, lack of memory, organizational and spatial skills.

I want to go to university. I love both electronics and computing, not use about getting interested more in EE or CS. I even consider physics, robotics or telecommunications.

Being an old fart isn't so bad. Being mildly mad and classmates bullying you because or your weird behaviour, not able to overcome that attitude because lack of social skills and anxiety blocking and distorting your reactions is worse. Because my brain lacks development, I'm in some ways a.teenage in the body of an adult but that is too aware of his fails (ADHD shares some stuff from Autism Spectrum).

Despite all the suffering, morons, crappy therapies, lack of incomes and crappy educational system... I prefer to die than give up!

[EEVblog]

You don't need a degree to get into the EE field. Just show what you can do.

How common is this now though? 
I ask, as it seems HR at most places have a "degree only" policy these days.

You are in America. The OP is in Australia and I can only speak for Australia.

[Alex Eisenhut]

33 - you're a babe-in-arms!

I actually went the other way, I switched from Electronics (research) to Computer Science by going back to university at the age of 45!

The main issue if you want to train is that the loss of salary while training is more painful when you're going from a better paid job than when you do it before you've had a job at all but it all depends on your priorities. Also most people acquire responsibilities (family/mortgage etc) so it is more complicated to manage but then I think that older people have more staying power and commitment to overcome such obstacles.

Mine is worse!

I'm 30 and lack of education,  I was an undiagmosed ADHD that failed at most of his topics in life.

These days I managed to pass an entry exam and enter a vocational training school, buy it's very hard to arxhieve and I'm having a very great challenge by approving with second chance exams and finishing zillions of pending homework. I get distracted easily, severe sleep problems, anxiety, lack of memory, organizational and spatial skills.

I want to go to university. I love both electronics and computing, not use about getting interested more in EE or CS. I even consider physics, robotics or telecommunications.

Being an old fart isn't so bad. Being mildly mad and classmates bullying you because or your weird behaviour, not able to overcome that attitude because lack of social skills and anxiety blocking and distorting your reactions is worse. Because my brain lacks development, I'm in some ways a.teenage in the body of an adult but that is too aware of his fails (ADHD shares some stuff from Autism Spectrum).

Despite all the suffering, morons, crappy therapies, lack of incomes and crappy educational system... I prefer to die than give up!

Have you been checked for sleep apnea?

[timofonic]

33 - you're a babe-in-arms!

I actually went the other way, I switched from Electronics (research) to Computer Science by going back to university at the age of 45!

The main issue if you want to train is that the loss of salary while training is more painful when you're going from a better paid job than when you do it before you've had a job at all but it all depends on your priorities. Also most people acquire responsibilities (family/mortgage etc) so it is more complicated to manage but then I think that older people have more staying power and commitment to overcome such obstacles.

Mine is worse!

I'm 30 and lack of education,  I was an undiagmosed ADHD that failed at most of his topics in life.

These days I managed to pass an entry exam and enter a vocational training school, buy it's very hard to arxhieve and I'm having a very great challenge by approving with second chance exams and finishing zillions of pending homework. I get distracted easily, severe sleep problems, anxiety, lack of memory, organizational and spatial skills.

I want to go to university. I love both electronics and computing, not use about getting interested more in EE or CS. I even consider physics, robotics or telecommunications.

Being an old fart isn't so bad. Being mildly mad and classmates bullying you because or your weird behaviour, not able to overcome that attitude because lack of social skills and anxiety blocking and distorting your reactions is worse. Because my brain lacks development, I'm in some ways a.teenage in the body of an adult but that is too aware of his fails (ADHD shares some stuff from Autism Spectrum).

Despite all the suffering, morons, crappy therapies, lack of incomes and crappy educational system... I prefer to die than give up!

Have you been checked for sleep apnea?

Yes. I don't have it. I gave insomnia and anxiety issues...

[Rupunzell]

This has become the sad and tragic reality of analog electronics design today.  Earlier this year, I spent some time with Dobby (CTO of Linear Technology) and a few of their Field Applications Engineers. They shared more than a few customer request stories with me that simply put me on the floor. Know LT does an absolutely excellent job of supporting their customers with samples, design help and even reviewing board layouts and customer designs as added customer value. What they are actually doing is much of the design work customers cannot do or are not able to do. Much the same was echoed by a friend who is a FAE at Ti.

This conversation supports the realty that so much of "electronics design" aka hardware design has become cook book implementations of chip sets, demo-boards and similar. Any wonder why most electronic widgets today are so similar in so many ways 

Another friend is a lab aid at Stanford Uni, he told me the majority of the students are allergic to solder 

There was a time when being an EE meant doing the entire design from start to finish, at the individual component level (this means two and three legged devices or more legged devices), directing how pc boards components are places and traces routed out, how the item is to be built-produced, how it must be tested and define what the end specifications are. It was then up to marketing to sell it. Today, that as all been turned around to where marketing dictates what engineering will design, to what level of performance, what degree of being "bug free", what it's service live will be and when it will be tossed into the land fill.

What much of "electronics design" today has become code writing for cook book - generic chip sets that are designed by a given manufacture for a specific market need.

Much of this is reflected in the instrumentation designed and built today as they are computer centric, virtual in most cases and has become very much design by keyboard, mouse, software simulations and mostly by visual display.

Friends who have graduate degrees (Masters, Phd) tend to start their own companies and shy away from working at a corporation or work at a small start up company.

In light of all this, what does a college degree in EE really mean today beyond meeting the HR requirements and becoming a cog in the machinery?
 
There was a time when engineers held the equal to an executive position with real authority on the companies product offerings or they were responsible for the technical out come of a project. Today, many EEs have been relegated to cook book design to meet a schedule dictated by marketing and management that often results in half-baked products that barely meet customer expectations and intended to be obsolete in shot time forcing the customer to make another purchase.. This might the "good" for the economy and corporate profits, but it is not good for the customer and how humanity is using resources overall.


Bernice

The dirty little secret that nobody tells the undergrads is that almost all design these days is cookie cutter datasheet stuff, sure I can design a switched mode supply from component level without ICs, but why on earth would I want to?
Once in a blue moon you end up playing where the engineering meets the physics (That is fun), and very rarely you end up where the maths meets the physics (Scary place, also fun), but mostly it is cookie cutter data sheet stuff, the valuable skill is mostly up at the systems level, and knowing how the unwritten assumptions about whatever the task domain is will interact with the electronics.

Regards, Dan.

[rx8pilot]

I would not called it 'Tragic' myself, it's more like 'progress'. Look how software coding has evolved over the years. In the early days you needed to be a computer scientist to get a computer to do something you want. Today we have Python, HTML, and a slew of other high-level ways to get a computer steered in the right direction. It does not matter that the programmer has no idea what is happening under the hood. If all programs had to be developed in assembly, computers would have a fraction of the use they do today. The low-skill level programmers use high level languages. When they run out of power or functionality they look to the higher-skill level programmers for a tool.

In EE, there is still a need for the PhD level people developing analog circuits on silicon. The field is just being divided more and more. Not everyone can understand everything since the field is so massive. To make compelling and small devices with high-performance and low power requires huge teams of people and a large market. The trend toward 'cookie-cutter' designs enables a business like mine. A one man band essentially that can put together a sophisticated blend of technologies into a tiny space and sell relatively tiny volumes at a profit. If I had to design multiple SMPS's from discreet components, AD converters, LCD drivers, current sense amplifiers, etc.... it would not be possible. I use the datasheets and the demo boards to get familiar with a device the same way I would a discreet component. I still have to design the glue circuits that hold it all together.

This way of working is not tragic at all. This is leveraging the intelligence of others so that I can put a whole bunch of tricks into one hat. I never wanted to be cornered into a specific discipline of EE.

[jlmoon]

There is no age limit.... ,
     you only get better with time,  just like a fine wine!
 

[Rigby]

whether or not 33 is too old

Ok, don't be ridiculous.  Even professionally, there is no "too old."  You and I (7 years older than you) are not too old to start a new career.  Most people wind up doing this, according to The Internet Of Unknown Truthiness. 

Every person I know who's been hired as an engineer of any type has been hired on their portfolio of personal work.  Professional work is almost always covered by NDA anymore, so it can't be covered in interviews.  Your Github profile, your participation in forums, your attitude, and most of all, your personal work that you share with the interviewers is what will get you the job beyond anything else.  As soon as you reveal something physical in an interview, you've done more than 99% of job interviewees.  If you pull out the shittiest PCB ever designed, you've already exceeded every candidate that doesn't show a board at all.  They will want to see some sort of history of longevity somewhere, be it college or a long term of employment at a few places (several years or more each), just so they can know that you can sit in your seat long enough to give a return on the overhead of hiring a new person.

Don't expect "veteran" range salary immediately; you'll get there.

So, do whatever you need to do to get by in your current profession/life/etc.  If you have rich parents who can support you while you learn, take advantage of that.  If you need to continue working in your present career to pay rent, do that. 

Study, build, read, try, fail, learn, repeat.  Passion is your fuel.  Find a way to have it if you don't.  If you don't have passion for something, you'll find it very difficult to advance yourself.

There is no age limit.... ,
     you only get better with time,  just like a fine wine!

My recall ability would argue this if it could.

[jlmoon]

whether or not 33 is too old

Ok, don't be ridiculous.  Even professionally, there is no "too old."  You and I (7 years older than you) are not too old to start a new career.  Most people wind up doing this, according to The Internet Of Unknown Truthiness. 

Every person I know who's been hired as an engineer of any type has been hired on their portfolio of personal work.  Professional work is almost always covered by NDA anymore, so it can't be covered in interviews.  Your Github profile, your participation in forums, your attitude, and most of all, your personal work that you share with the interviewers is what will get you the job beyond anything else.  As soon as you reveal something physical in an interview, you've done more than 99% of job interviewees.  If you pull out the shittiest PCB ever designed, you've already exceeded every candidate that doesn't show a board at all.  They will want to see some sort of history of longevity somewhere, be it college or a long term of employment at a few places (several years or more each), just so they can know that you can sit in your seat long enough to give a return on the overhead of hiring a new person.

Don't expect "veteran" range salary immediately; you'll get there.

So, do whatever you need to do to get by in your current profession/life/etc.  If you have rich parents who can support you while you learn, take advantage of that.  If you need to continue working in your present career to pay rent, do that. 

Study, build, read, try, fail, learn, repeat.  Passion is your fuel.  Find a way to have it if you don't.  If you don't have passion for something, you'll find it very difficult to advance yourself.

There is no age limit.... ,
     you only get better with time,  just like a fine wine!

My recall ability would argue this if it could.

  not to mention the ability to not shake..<grin>

[electr_peter]

Too old is when you are carried out from your home legs first...

[Alex Eisenhut]

Whenever I feel too old I watch this.



I still feel old, but I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere.

[Rupunzell]

Some of the very best circuit designers do not have a Phd or even a college degree. They simply had a feel and intuition for how a circuit behaves and what the parts needs to do on a deep intuitive level. Jim William (Linear Technology) and John Kobbe (Tektronix) comes to mind at the moment.

What matters most for any circuit designer to be good is creativity and passion for all this electronics stuff. The very best circuit designers are very much artist using electronics as their means of expression.

It is often forgotten those who put the work into creating the foundations for what is commonly used today in the technology world. If not for the efforts and good work done by previous individuals, none of what many take for granted daily.

As for being too old to doing or pursuing a career in electronics, No, simply No.

What really matters is passion and interest in doing electronics daily.  GO FOR IT..


Bernice

I would not called it 'Tragic' myself, it's more like 'progress'. Look how software coding has evolved over the years. In the early days you needed to be a computer scientist to get a computer to do something you want. Today we have Python, HTML, and a slew of other high-level ways to get a computer steered in the right direction. It does not matter that the programmer has no idea what is happening under the hood. If all programs had to be developed in assembly, computers would have a fraction of the use they do today. The low-skill level programmers use high level languages. When they run out of power or functionality they look to the higher-skill level programmers for a tool.

In EE, there is still a need for the PhD level people developing analog circuits on silicon. The field is just being divided more and more. Not everyone can understand everything since the field is so massive. To make compelling and small devices with high-performance and low power requires huge teams of people and a large market. The trend toward 'cookie-cutter' designs enables a business like mine. A one man band essentially that can put together a sophisticated blend of technologies into a tiny space and sell relatively tiny volumes at a profit. If I had to design multiple SMPS's from discreet components, AD converters, LCD drivers, current sense amplifiers, etc.... it would not be possible. I use the datasheets and the demo boards to get familiar with a device the same way I would a discreet component. I still have to design the glue circuits that hold it all together.

This way of working is not tragic at all. This is leveraging the intelligence of others so that I can put a whole bunch of tricks into one hat. I never wanted to be cornered into a specific discipline of EE.