Author Topic: How to connect to a very, very challanging BlackBerry Q10 keyboard connector?  (Read 9435 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I want to use this in a project.  I am not 100% sure but this looks to me to be about 0.4mm and it is as tiny as it looks.   I should have gotten a straighter on picture.  Surprised this came out as well as it did, but I could have done better.  I can't find the appropriate socket anywhere to purchase.  Any ideas on what I should be trying to make a connection or where to get this socket?  Would prefer a socket, I can make my own PCBs and I am very good at mounting small SMT parts under the microscope with a bit of hot air.   Thanks in advance!






« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 03:45:05 pm by JoeN »
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Online amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6100
Molex SlimStack 0.4?

 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Molex SlimStack 0.4?

It looks to me you could be right.  When I look at Molex's site and Mouser though the very weird thing is they carry 26 pin versions and 30 pin versions but not 28 which is what I count on this connector.

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/family?key=slimstack_fine_pitch_smt_board_to_board_connectors&channel=products&chanName=family&pageTitle=Introduction

http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=130129646  (.35mm connectors that look exactly like this one)
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=SlimStack  (all SlimStack connectors)

Why do you think that is?
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline mazurov

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 448
  • Country: us
Looks like HIROSE DF40 to me. When drawing land pattern for it pay attention to extra edge pins.
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Looks like HIROSE DF40 to me. When drawing land pattern for it pay attention to extra edge pins.

I appreciate this.  They look like really similar connectors.  I thought posting here would be good because of all you industry guys who recognize these sorts of things.

http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=142026239

The very odd thing is still no 28 conductor version.  Any idea what is up with that?  Did Blackberry f*ck me here by using their corporate might to demand a non-standard conductor so this part would not be diverted into amateur projects?   :-DD
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Online amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6100
I see the Hirose logo now... perhaps it is a BM14C(0.8)-28DP-0.4V(51).
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I see the Hirose logo now... perhaps it is a BM14C(0.8)-28DP-0.4V(51).

That may be right.  If so, I'm screwed.  No one is selling these for any pin count with any minimum or not.   :--
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline Maxlor

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 560
  • Country: ch
I'm seeing 8000 pieces minimum order, at $0.70 per piece. Probably not a good solution for you.

The pin pitch isn't really that small though, you could just solder wires to the connector (where it already has solder, not the gold contact) then solder those to a PCB. Fiddly, but doable.
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I'm seeing 8000 pieces minimum order, at $0.70 per piece. Probably not a good solution for you.

The pin pitch isn't really that small though, you could just solder wires to the connector (where it already has solder, not the gold contact) then solder those to a PCB. Fiddly, but doable.

I wonder if there is some way to make a slot in a PCB and have traces for each conductor right up to the slot edge and just solder it...   With the prices for PCBs at OSHPark being what they are I could probably try a few things...
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline mazurov

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 448
  • Country: us
I told you already. Headers on DF40, as well as receptacles on other types have extra edge pins just for mounting, i.e., not making electrical contact with anything. They are also not counted as "pins' in the datasheet. It is not clear what was that you counted - inner or outer pins, I suggest to do it again and if counts are different use the one that is smaller.
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I told you already. Headers on DF40, as well as receptacles on other types have extra edge pins just for mounting, i.e., not making electrical contact with anything. They are also not counted as "pins' in the datasheet. It is not clear what was that you counted - inner or outer pins, I suggest to do it again and if counts are different use the one that is smaller.

I think I understand you.  Take a look at the pictures above.  There are two rows of 14 pins each, 28 total.  Now, as you say, it's obvious that the top two pins and bottom two pins have no connection and are reinforced with a bit more solder.  That makes it 24 pins, not 28, and Mouser has a 24 pin receptacle DF40C(2.0)-24DS-0.4V(51) and a 24 pin header DF40C-24DP-0.4V(51), just as you say.  I will order that receptacle and see if it works out.  Thanks.  Now it makes sense.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline that_guy

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: gb
I have some experience with these board-to-board connectors and I can say that you're extremely lucky that this one has the HRS logo on it so you at least know the manufacturer. What you need now is some calipers to measure the identifying dimensions on this plug so that you can purchase the correct receptacle. "Looking like" a particular range isn't good enough because ranges differ only by 10th's of a mm and the fit is very tight such that you cannot get away with being close but not exact.

Manual soldering using an iron with Hirose connectors is possible under a microscope because the receptacle pins protrude far enough from the edge unlike certain other manufacturers. Hot air is a bad idea. The plastic is soft and you'll easily melt it.
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I have some experience with these board-to-board connectors and I can say that you're extremely lucky that this one has the HRS logo on it so you at least know the manufacturer. What you need now is some calipers to measure the identifying dimensions on this plug so that you can purchase the correct receptacle. "Looking like" a particular range isn't good enough because ranges differ only by 10th's of a mm and the fit is very tight such that you cannot get away with being close but not exact.

Manual soldering using an iron with Hirose connectors is possible under a microscope because the receptacle pins protrude far enough from the edge unlike certain other manufacturers. Hot air is a bad idea. The plastic is soft and you'll easily melt it.

Ok.  Thanks for that advice.  I have calipers and a microscope too but I have never measured something this small so I will have to give that a go.  I am actually rather good at soldering small parts.  Looking at this plug, if the receptacle has pins that protrude like the plug does (and they do on the datasheets I have seen so far), I doubt I will have any serious trouble soldering it.  At that point I am hoping the keyboard is just a switch matrix because that will make it rather easy to figure out.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline doctormord

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Country: cx
  • !nop
    • #fine_arts & #electronics - 360customs.de
Why not getting a broken phone where this keyboard comes from? De/Resolder the socket and you're fine?
#fine_arts & #electronics  - www.360customs.de
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Why not getting a broken phone where this keyboard comes from? De/Resolder the socket and you're fine?

I looked into that and though I don't recall seeing prices that thrilled me.   It's also not reproducible if I want to make more than one of these things and I think I will.

Here are some parts that I found.  Not sure if the second, more reasonable one, even contains the socket.

Full "broken" or bricked in some manner phone ($46):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackberry-Q10-16GB-Smartphone-New-LCD-Handset-Bad-Software-keypad-For-Parts-/301477440113

Assembly ($15):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-Touch-Screen-Digitizer-LCD-Assembly-for-BlackBerry-Q10-Replacement-Parts-/400837319886
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 09:12:33 am by JoeN »
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Finally got it thanks to the replies here:  Hirose BM14B(0.8)-24DS-0.4V(53) Digikey PN H122178CT-ND

Made an adapter so I could get at the keyboard conveniently:



And then I figured it out and made a test project:

Have You Been Triggered Today?
 
The following users thanked this post: woodworker

Offline jdraughn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 104
Congrats :)

Finally got it thanks to the replies here:  Hirose BM14B(0.8)-24DS-0.4V(53) Digikey PN H122178CT-ND

Made an adapter so I could get at the keyboard conveniently:



And then I figured it out and made a test project:


 

Offline crispy_tofu

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1124
  • Country: au
Wow, fantastic!  :-+
 

Offline tec5c

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 421
  • Country: au
Your test project is writing a novel on an OLED display??
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Your test project is writing a novel on an OLED display??

:)

It's just a proof that the thing works and all the keys are recognized.

My first test was actually going through all the keys one by one.  But that was boring, so the second test was typing out something "normal" on it and I just chose that text because I like the book.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
I've gotten a few questions on this and I am going to post some information here so everyone can see it.  Also, I don't see how to do attachments on the PMs.

Quote
- is the connector you mentioned really the correct one? because the q10 keyboard connector looks on photos like a 28pin connector and your adapter pcb is also 28pin but you linked a 24 pin connector in your post

- do you have any documentation about the pinout?

The connector is correct.  They call it a 24 pin connector but it has 28 conductors.  I guess the outer 4 are guard connectors and are not recommended as signals?  It's odd.  But here is the actual part I ordered and the actual part number and go ahead and count the pins.  It works.  View the image and count the pins and you will see.



I will also attach my .INO file as TXT, it gives the map of keys.  The keyboard is a simple matrix.  Once you have the keyboard attached to a breakout adapter, finding the key map is very easy with a continuity tester, you will have zero problems determining that even if you didn't have my map.

I have attached my DipTrace files and Gerbers for the adapter.

Everything was done by an amateur is is not guaranteed to work.  But it all worked for me just fine.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 
The following users thanked this post: woodworker, vasco

Offline DG41WV

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: lk
Your test project is writing a novel on an OLED display??

:)

It's just a proof that the thing works and all the keys are recognized.

My first test was actually going through all the keys one by one.  But that was boring, so the second test was typing out something "normal" on it and I just chose that text because I like the book.

You could use "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" next time. it contains all the letters of the English alphabet
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Your test project is writing a novel on an OLED display??

:)

It's just a proof that the thing works and all the keys are recognized.

My first test was actually going through all the keys one by one.  But that was boring, so the second test was typing out something "normal" on it and I just chose that text because I like the book.

You could use "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" next time. it contains all the letters of the English alphabet

My first test was abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz which has the same effect and is actually perfectly easy to type and even easier to remember.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf