Author Topic: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?  (Read 17109 times)

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Offline soldar

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2019, 06:17:48 pm »
It's possible that the solenoid might not be the main bottleneck in the speed, but more investigation is necessary to determine this.

I think this is very possibly the case. If you want to move the water faster you need to put pressure on the water, not just open the gate faster.

Some decades ago I was maintaining some Kodak machinery for making color prints from negatives. The machine would advance the negative and the paper and then the negative was scanned for color balance, exposure, etc. With that information a shutter and three color filters were swung out by their solenoids and then each color filter was swung in and finally the opaque shutter was swung in and that was the end of that print. The exposure times of each color were measured in milliseconds and were crucial for good print results.  The machine could be doing over 200 prints / minute.

Due to filter lag the software would run a setup and measure how long it took each individual filter and shutter to move in and out after activation. Those values were then stored and used and taken into account by the software together with lamp intensity, color balance, etc.

It was essential that the filters move *fast* in and out. The delay was just compensated for in the software.

The machine was run by a minicomputer (this was before microprocessors) and the program was stored on TTY paper tape. Fun times!
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Offline AlbatroonTopic starter

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2019, 06:42:59 pm »
I totally understand that this maybe a waste of time. Maybe !
And Maybe It will do something..  And Maybe I'll use this circuit later with another faster valves.
The only way to know If it will change something or not, Is trying it and compare with the classic driver.

And that's what I am doing now. testing testing testing..

Thank you all
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 06:44:34 pm by Albatroon »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2019, 06:52:57 pm »
If you want to move the water faster you need to put pressure on the water, not just open the gate faster.

Or you could vary the surface tension and/or viscosity of the liquid.
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Offline AlbatroonTopic starter

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2019, 07:21:48 pm »
If you want to move the water faster you need to put pressure on the water, not just open the gate faster.

I tried playing with the pressure before, The falling shapes was dropping very fast, Also it was hard to recognize the displayed image.
This is a drop back for any increasing in pressure, The water will run faster.
So, The only way to get the shapes to run as slow as possible was using only gravity feed pressure.


 

Offline soldar

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2019, 08:18:00 pm »
To slow the speed of the drops ideally you would want them to start out falling with zero velocity. Having the nozzles widen a bit, like a trumpet, might help slow the water a bit.

I wonder about the possibility of slowing the liquid by electrical or magnetic fields.
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Offline AlbatroonTopic starter

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2019, 08:20:53 pm »
I wonder about the possibility of slowing the liquid by electrical or magnetic fields.

Is it possible ?
 

Offline Kasper

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2019, 05:14:55 am »
I wonder about the possibility of slowing the liquid by electrical or magnetic fields.

Is it possible ?

With the right lighting, you could make it flow up. Or atleast it could look that way.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/northerncircuitsinc/aquarius-a-water-manipulating-fountain-lamp
 
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Offline AlbatroonTopic starter

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2019, 05:16:23 am »
With the right lighting, you could make it flow up. Or atleast it could look that way.

POV is my next thing to play with, after finishing the build.
Thank you
 

Offline MrAl

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2019, 01:10:52 pm »
Hi,

Just to note, the energy stored in the coil is proportional to the Volt Seconds which is simply volts times the time in seconds.  That means to dissipate a given energy W first the stored energy can be looked at as:
W=v*s*K

with K a constant, and to dissipate that energy we have to dissipate W units, so we have the same:
W=v*s*K

Now if we quantify the energy going in:
W1=v1*t1*K

and going out:
W2=v2*t2*K

and so with unsigned voltages we must have close to:
W2=W1

to dissipate nearly all the energy.

This simply means:
v2*t2*K=v1*t1*K

reducing, we get:
v2*t2=v1*t1

and if we solve for the dissipation time we get:
t2=t1*v1/v2

and here it is plain to see that as we increase v2 the time t2 reduces and that's the goal.
t1 is automatically limited because of the fixed voltage v1, but obviously if v1 is lowered t2 reduces that way too.
So the rule is minimum v1, maximum v2.  The practical limit on v2 is closely related to the drain source voltage rating of the transistor so the choice of transistor is also a key factor.

Too much for a Hobbyist to understand ;D

Hi again,

Ok no problem, just look at the last couple lines:
The rule is minimum v1 (applied voltage) and maximum v2 (discharge voltage)
and of course a transistor that can handle v2 without being destroyed.
 

Offline AlbatroonTopic starter

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Re: How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2019, 09:20:01 pm »
Hi again,

Ok no problem, just look at the last couple lines:
The rule is minimum v1 (applied voltage) and maximum v2 (discharge voltage)
and of course a transistor that can handle v2 without being destroyed.

Okay :-+
Thank you
 


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