| Electronics > Beginners |
| How woud an experienced person "know" how to build the circuit? |
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| Beamin:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 20, 2018, 07:42:42 pm ---FWIW: Notice that design works in permutation space. That is: 1. We have some variable set of components. 2. Components have pins. 3. The list of connections between pins goes potentially as (pins)! (that's the factorial operator). In a real design, the connections will be sparse, so the size of the space is on the order of, say, 4 choose 100 (that's the 'choose' operator). Needless to say, the space is large, so you cannot memorize solutions. That's fortunate for us engineers, who get paid to solve for points in that space. ;D We of course narrow down that space considerably, by applying electrical rules (any number of inputs can be connected together, and must connect to only one output; outputs cannot connect together), and using building blocks (amps, gates, current and voltage sources and sinks, switches, filters, etc.) to bring order to the mess (say, reducing a problem of 4 choose 100, to more like 3 choose 20 -- which is still pretty big to attack by brute force, mind you). BTW, a "space" is a set of coordinates over some range. A linear space might be, for example, an array of numbers. 3D space is defined by three axes, numbered over +/-infinity. A permutation space is more specialized, but nonetheless is still just a set of coordinates. If you assign a numbered net to each pin, then all pins that have the same number are connected together on that same net; if different pins connect to that net (even if it's the same number of pins), it's a different circuit. So, different permutations are different circuits, and we have a permutation space. A permutation space is different because it's exclusive: you can't have one pin connecting to two nets at the same time, that's silly, it's just one net all shorted together. That just reduces to a simpler case. So, any design approaches, algorithms, compiler designs, all that stuff -- anything that applies to a permutation space, can potentially apply to electronic design. I don't know if that helps, but there's the joke about how mathematicians solve problems. You see, they never actually solve any problems, they just restate the problem in terms of some other already-solved problem, and they're done. ;D Tim --- End quote --- |
| Beamin:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 20, 2018, 07:42:42 pm ---FWIW: Notice that design works in permutation space. That is: 1. We have some variable set of components. 2. Components have pins. 3. The list of connections between pins goes potentially as (pins)! (that's the factorial operator). In a real design, the connections will be sparse, so the size of the space is on the order of, say, 4 choose 100 (that's the 'choose' operator). Needless to say, the space is large, so you cannot memorize solutions. That's fortunate for us engineers, who get paid to solve for points in that space. ;D We of course narrow down that space considerably, by applying electrical rules (any number of inputs can be connected together, and must connect to only one output; outputs cannot connect together), and using building blocks (amps, gates, current and voltage sources and sinks, switches, filters, etc.) to bring order to the mess (say, reducing a problem of 4 choose 100, to more like 3 choose 20 -- which is still pretty big to attack by brute force, mind you). BTW, a "space" is a set of coordinates over some range. A linear space might be, for example, an array of numbers. 3D space is defined by three axes, numbered over +/-infinity. A permutation space is more specialized, but nonetheless is still just a set of coordinates. If you assign a numbered net to each pin, then all pins that have the same number are connected together on that same net; if different pins connect to that net (even if it's the same number of pins), it's a different circuit. So, different permutations are different circuits, and we have a permutation space. A permutation space is different because it's exclusive: you can't have one pin connecting to two nets at the same time, that's silly, it's just one net all shorted together. That just reduces to a simpler case. So, any design approaches, algorithms, compiler designs, all that stuff -- anything that applies to a permutation space, can potentially apply to electronic design. I don't know if that helps, but there's the joke about how mathematicians solve problems. You see, they never actually solve any problems, they just restate the problem in terms of some other already-solved problem, and they're done. ;D Tim --- End quote --- Thats interesting and kind of how my mind works; to not think in the box but rather to define where the edges of the box are and see if problem lie inside or outside. Also good to see if a problem is too complex to figure out. When you say 4 chose 100 you mean there are four things that can each be connected up 100 ways? Would that be 400 or do they multipy together for some huge number? What is this way of analyzing called? Seems like a step in the 5 sigma design process that works beautifully in real life.The five sigma can be used when buying a car or online dating or any number of things and can give you a huge edge in real life provided you can think out side that box non linerarly. Why doess my spel check broke? |
| Bassman59:
--- Quote from: Raj on July 03, 2018, 05:50:34 am ---Well. I have to say,these days ,there's no fun in making electronics.Computer does most of the stuff for you and the stuff you do these days is just buy parts and get them together on a board and program it. Back in the analogue and semi digital days, You would have to spend weeks diagnosing and fixing problems and since every device was a a different thing unlike today's smartphone which is literally everything fitted into a single unit, the demand for electronics engineers was pretty high.These days ,its more like either you are soc making Phd guy or nothing. Now people like us have to spend more time thinking about how we can create new kinds of bulls#!ts like dongles,supporting peripherals that no one really needs (like gaming gear),internet of things,blockchains etc just t get a little bit of money from consumers.\ --- End quote --- Maybe you're in the wrong field? --- Quote ---Either that,or you work in the industry of making industrial gear/research gear. --- End quote --- I am, and it's both fun and challenging. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it, and then it wouldn't be fun. |
| IanB:
--- Quote from: jmelson on July 20, 2018, 07:52:38 pm ---In EE school, they mostly teach you how to ANALYZE circuits. This is a mostly "forward" process, reducing loops and nodes to simultaneous linear equations, reducing them and then solving them. This is how circuit simulator programs work, This is fairly easily taught, it is mostly mathematics. Coming up with circuits is a lot harder, but without analysis, you are just blind. With analysis, you can select likely generic circuits, write an equation for the generic response, and then figure out the component values to get the specific response (gain, frequency response, etc.) you need. --- End quote --- The complement to analysis is synthesis. Synthesis is less often taught and is harder to do, but is potentially more important when constructing or optimizing designs. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Bassman59 on July 20, 2018, 08:52:45 pm --- --- Quote from: Raj on July 03, 2018, 05:50:34 am ---Either that,or you work in the industry of making industrial gear/research gear. --- End quote --- I am, and it's both fun and challenging. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it, and then it wouldn't be fun. --- End quote --- Precisely. Spot on. |
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