are RF/EMF/EMR Radiation emitted from Wiimotes dangerous?

[radiolistener]

Thanks for proving my point: there's no plausible mechancism of RF causing cancer.

Is this your personal opinion, just because someone told you? Or may be you have a link on a science study and research which proves that changes caused by long RF exposure in a live cells cannot lead to any kind of disease and especially cannot cause cancer?

I'm asking you, just because current science cannot have answer on the question if such change (which is already proved, see link above for example) is linked with cancer or other diseases or not. So, I wonder why you are so sure that these changes are not connected in any way with cancer?

I just repeat it, if you didn't read it carefuly:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509895/

Studying the effects of 1800-MHz radio waves on embryonic NSCs showed that 1800-MHz RF-EMF radiation would cause damage and impairment in the expression of helix-loop-helix genes, essential for neuronal development [19]. All these results certainly indicate that EMF-RF may affect neurogenesis of NSCs. However, the precise fundamental cellular and molecular mechanisms are unknown and further in vivo and in vitro studies are still required.

As you can see, there is your mistake. RF exposure can damage genes without direct heating or ionizing effect and this is proven by science study.

This will probably be a surprising discovery for you, but living cells are rather complex molecular mechanisms that are subject to a variety of external factors, including electric and RF fields. There are many possible mechanisms for this. For example, the direct effect of an electric field on the distribution of molecules in a cell (because they have electric charge) or an indirect mechanical pressure effect on molecules due to thermal pulses of a certain frequency. The cell can restore it's state after such impact if it was a single short effect of such impact. But if the cell is subjected to the constant long-term impact of such external influence, it can lead to significant changes in the structure of the cell, including damage to the genome and even death of the cell.

[Simon]

Regarding RF and cancer: it's all BS. There's no plausible mechanism of action. RF is non-ionising radiation. It doesn't have enough energy to chemically alter DNA, which would cause cancer.

You're mistake. Even if RF transmitter has low enough power output to not apply direct thermal or ionizing damage, it still can affect live cells due to a different complex molecular and cellular mechanics.

OK, you can stop right there and explain what these "different complex molecular and cellular mechanics" are. You can't make ao statement like that and expect it gives you the authority to tell us what you think. Evidence please.

[radiolistener]

OK, you can stop right there and explain what these "different complex molecular and cellular mechanics" are. You can't make ao statement like that and expect it gives you the authority to tell us what you think. Evidence please.

Sorry, but I'm not expert in that area. As I know, such area is still unknown for the science, so there is no model which explains how it works. The same as there is still no universal physics model which combine gravitation and electromagnetic forces. I just quoted the text from science research paper:

All these results certainly indicate that EMF-RF may affect neurogenesis of NSCs. However, the precise fundamental cellular and molecular mechanisms are unknown and further in vivo and in vitro studies are still required.

I also remember other science paper with research of such mechanics, if I remember correctly they proposed model, where RF field of specific frequency and modulation pattern leads to a movement of some molecules in the cell due to it's electric charge interaction with EM fields, and after a long period of RF exposure it leads to a significant structural changes inside cell and as result it's biochemistry and cell functions are broken.

I just wanted to note that the cell is more complex structure and can be affected in different way than direct damage with thermal or ionizing impact.

[Zero999]

The study was on rat cells in a test tube. I can find studies which suggest hydroxychloroquine destroys SARS-Cov-2 in cultured cells, in a lab, but there is no real world evidence of its efficacy in real humans.

You admit, you're not an expert, so perhaps you should stop searching for studies you don't understand, in order to support your hypothesis. It just indicates ignorance.

[radiolistener]

Zero999

Note, you're claimed that the long RF exposure cannot lead to a cancer. But this is false claim. There is no scientific evidence that it cannot lead to a cancer.

On the contrary there are exists a lot of studies with evidence that RF exposure can leads to a cell structural changes which may be linked with cancer and other diseases. This is not an evidence that these structural changes are linked with cancer, but this is an evidence that it may be linked.

If you don't understand and don't know something this is not an evidence that this is impossible.

[Zero999]

I do understand that cancer occurs when the DNA in cells mutates and the immune system doesn't detect it, which allows it to keep multiplying to the point of going out of control. Only ionising radiation, or certain chemicals can cause these mutations and RF has far too lower energy to induce any mutations. The burden of proof lies with you to prove otherwise, since you're the one making such an extortionary claim.

[Simon]

OK, you can stop right there and explain what these "different complex molecular and cellular mechanics" are. You can't make ao statement like that and expect it gives you the authority to tell us what you think. Evidence please.

Sorry, but I'm not expert in that area.  thank you for clarifying, so we can ignore this paragraph As I know, such area is still unknown for the science oh so you are speculating, so you are just lying, so there is no model which explains how it works. correct so you are spouting nonsense The same as there is still no universal physics model which combine gravitation and electromagnetic forces. Why? should there be one? I just quoted the text from science research paper:

All these results certainly indicate that EMF-RF may affect neurogenesis of NSCs. However, the precise fundamental cellular and molecular mechanisms are unknown and further in vivo and in vitro studies are still required.

So show us the paper, not 2 lines, or is that it? oh this is the unknown stuff you talked about

I also remember other science paper with research of such mechanics, if I remember correctly they proposed model, where RF field of specific frequency and modulation pattern leads to a movement of some molecules in the cell due to it's electric charge interaction with EM fields, and after a long period of RF exposure it leads to a significant structural changes inside cell and as result it's biochemistry and cell functions are broken. So someone dreamed this up and has not proved it yet even though they don't know what "it" is

I just wanted to note that the cell is more complex structure and can be affected in different way than direct damage with thermal or ionizing impact. more complex than what?

You play the classic conspiracy game of acting all meek and ignorant and "just passing it on" then you start telling us how in fantasy land it works.

Evidence, or get out of here!

[radiolistener]

Only ionising radiation, or certain chemicals can cause these mutations and RF has far too lower energy to induce any mutations.

Here is mistake. Non ionizing RF radiation can cause DNA damage.

Here is quote from this paper:

One plausible mechanism for RFR-induced DNA damage
is free radical damage. After finding that two free radical
scavengers (melatonin and N-tert-butyl--phenylnitrone)
prevent RFR-induced DNA damage in rat brain cells, Lai
and Singh [62] hypothesized that this damage resulted from
free radical generation. Subsequently, other reports appeared
that also suggested free radical formation as a result of RFR
exposure [103–105]. Additionally, some investigators have
reported that non-thermal exposure to RFR alters protein
structure and function [106–109]. Scientists are familiar with
molecules interacting with proteins through lock-and-key or
induced-fit mechanisms. It is accepted that such interactions
provide energy to change protein conformation and protein
function. Indeed, discussions of these principles are presented
in introductory biology and biochemistry courses. Perhaps
then it is possible that RFR exposure, in a manner similar to
that of chemical agents, provides sufficient energy to alter the
structure of proteins involved in DNA repair mechanisms to
the extent that their function also is changed. This has not yet
been investigated.

[radiolistener]

You play the classic conspiracy game of acting all meek and ignorant and "just passing it on" then you start telling us how in fantasy land it works.

Evidence, or get out of here!

Conspiracy here is a false claim that RF exposure cannot damage DNA. This is not true.

Above, I already provided links on science papers which has evidence. And you can find more because a lot studies and research papers on that topic exists.

But Zero999 just claims that it can't without any evidence, just because he don't know how it's possible. Sorry, but this is not a serious approach.

So show us the paper, not 2 lines, or is that it? oh this is the unknown stuff you talked about[/b]

I already provided it above. See here and here.

Can you see these links? I can repeat:
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509895/

- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/215658343_Electromagnetic_fields_and_DNA_damage

You can google more, it's not hard.

I don't understand why you're asking me to show the paper, when I already provided links.
Do you trolling me?

[Simon]

But Zero999 just claims that it can't without any evidence, just because he don't know how it's possible. Sorry, but this is not a serious approach.

Oh, expecting evidence is not a serious approach. I've clearly been deluded all my life.

[radiolistener]

Oh, expecting evidence is not a serious approach. I've clearly been deluded all my life.

Not serious approach is to provide claim which doesn't have scientific evidence.

But there is also another not serious approach - to ask for evidence and links for papers when they are already provided.
And pretend that nothing was provided after the proof was provided.

[RoGeorge]

You play the classic conspiracy game of acting all meek and ignorant and "just passing it on" then you start telling us how in fantasy land it works.

Evidence, or get out of here!

Oh, c'mmon man, don't be so categorical.  You realize same can be said about you, wright?  You didn't brought any proof either.  I got it you fight against conspiracies in general, but you are over-zealous.  Taking the time to write to you all these because I remember once you deleted a long OP coming from a geologist, because that post was contradicting your opinions about climate change.  Not nice. 

Just because an opinion happens to be the mainstream opinion, doesn't necessarily means it is true.

About the question in the topic's title, my opinion is same as yours:  I see no danger in the RF coming from a wiimote.  I don't see any reason to be afraid of the weemote RF.

I didn't study the influence of RF upon living bodies, so I don't really know, but what I know for sure is the video in the in the OP is trash.  That video has nothing to do with science, and there is no evidence about anything in that video, nothing new or unexpected.

[djacobow]

Of course, it's horribly dangerous. That's why millions of people who played Wii and their families all got cancer. Didn't you hear all about that on the news?

[radiolistener]

here is yet another paper with evidence about DNA-damage from low-intensity RF exposure at GSM frequency:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1091581815574348

In the present study, DNA damage was also observed in
brain after chronic low-intensity MWR exposure. Earlier in our
study, we found that low-intensity MWR exposure for 30 days
is capable of interacting with DNA by unknown mechanism
and causes single-strand DNA breaks.11 It is apparent from our
study that at such low level of microwave exposure and the
range of frequency from 900 to 2450 MHz could be the genotoxic by indirect mechanism. The biochemical compounds in
living cells are composed of charges and dipoles that can interact with electric and magnetic fields by various mechanisms.
The high frequency EMF (2.45 GHz and 50 Hz modulated)
exerts their genotoxic effects in male Wistar rats as evidenced
by a significant increase in DNA strand breaks after 2 hours
exposure per day to EMF for 35 days with whole-body SAR of
0.11 W/kg.22 Campisi et al23 reported an increase in oxygen
radicals accompanied by an increase in DNA strand breaks in
primary rat glia cells after exposure to high frequency field
(900 MHz). Xu et al24 reported that DNA adduct rate caused
by oxygen radicals in the mitochondria of primary cultured
neurons (nerve cells) significantly increased after 24 hours
GSM exposure. The increase in single- and double-strand DNA
breaks was observed in brain cells of rats exposed to 2450 MHz
for 2 hours at whole-body SAR 0.6 W/kg.25,26 Usikalu M et al27
reported that low SAR and 2.45 GHz MWR exposure can
induce a single-strand break in brain cells of rats. Thus, we are
confronted with the question whether or not the same deleterious alteration may also occur in brain from regular microwave
exposure. Therefore, it would be necessary to further explore
the differential effects of different exposure parameters such as
frequency, duration of exposure, and pattern.

[Simon]

You play the classic conspiracy game of acting all meek and ignorant and "just passing it on" then you start telling us how in fantasy land it works.

Evidence, or get out of here!

Oh, c'mmon man, don't be so categorical.  You realize same can be said about you, wright?  You didn't brought any proof either.  I got it you fight against conspiracies in general, but you are over-zealous.  Taking the time to write to you all these because I remember once you deleted a long OP coming from a geologist, because that post was contradicting your opinions about climate change.  Not nice. 

Your point being? apart from your opinion of not nice, that is your opinion and you are welcome to one of those.

Just because an opinion happens to be the mainstream opinion, doesn't necessarily means it is true.

Did I say otherwise?

[Simon]

Of course, it's horribly dangerous. That's why millions of people who played Wii and their families all got cancer. Didn't you hear all about that on the news?

Oh well of course the news was suppressed

[radiolistener]

I got it you fight against conspiracies in general, but you are over-zealous.

Probably this is not about conspiracy, but about censorship. 

[Simon]