Knockoff calculator, or just cheaper production run?

[MikeK]

My go-to calculator has been a Casio fx-260solar.  It's not a high-end scientific, but it does the basics well.  It's also nice and small, turns on quickly, and runs in lower light than my old TI-36X Solar.  I just got a new-in-package one on eBay for use in my basement workshop.

Turns out, though, that this new one is slightly different than the other one.  It's not the completely new redesign that Casio did that has the weird patterned/textured body.  It's just very slightly different.  The length, width, and thickness are all slightly smaller.  The cover is a poor and too tight fit.  The original is made in China, the new one in Malaysia.  But the worst offense is that the keys are the awful soft keys.  Ugh!  So awful that I can't use it.  I love using the original, though.

So I was wondering if Casio would have actually spent time doing this slight (and worse!) redesign.  Why make new molds for the plastic?  Why go from China to Mayalsia? (pre-pandemic).  Or if this might be a knockoff?

[BeBuLamar]

I don't think it was knocked off.

[Manul]

Does it show 9.00001568547 or something else?

http://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/forensics.htm

[MikeK]

Yeah, and they both have the same value.

[Manul]

Just a wild guess that maybe you got a device intended for third country market or something. These things happen. Sometimes supposedly identical bottle of coca cola is not exactly same taste and quality in US or EU compared to third countries. So who knows.

[Mechatrommer]

i noticed certain batch of fx-570MS are degraded in quality among my students, lost LCD display, rusted battery, flimsy build (thinner and easily twisted) etc, sometime only less than a year of usage. i think casio is doing another 3rd world quality batch or simply they are knock off, the one with me is pretty solid though.

[amyk]

The mold quality of the smaller one actually looks better. I'd ask Casio directly and see what they say.

[MrAl]

My go-to calculator has been a Casio fx-260solar.  It's not a high-end scientific, but it does the basics well.  It's also nice and small, turns on quickly, and runs in lower light than my old TI-36X Solar.  I just got a new-in-package one on eBay for use in my basement workshop.

Turns out, though, that this new one is slightly different than the other one.  It's not the completely new redesign that Casio did that has the weird patterned/textured body.  It's just very slightly different.  The length, width, and thickness are all slightly smaller.  The cover is a poor and too tight fit.  The original is made in China, the new one in Malaysia.  But the worst offense is that the keys are the awful soft keys.  Ugh!  So awful that I can't use it.  I love using the original, though.

So I was wondering if Casio would have actually spent time doing this slight (and worse!) redesign.  Why make new molds for the plastic?  Why go from China to Mayalsia? (pre-pandemic).  Or if this might be a knockoff?

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Get another from another web site non ebay and compare.

Everything i got from ebay had something negative about it i didnt expect.  Stopped using them long ago.

[MikeK]

I find it odd that my good old calc has no patents listed on the back, but the one that I suspect is a knockoff has all sorts of patents listed.  I also looked at the new redesign (that has the textured body and no mode legend below the display) and it too has no patents listed.  So why does that one [suspiciously changed] unit do it?

[mqsaharan]

Looks like knockoffs is a known problem for Casio. Please do a search for fake casio calculators on youtube if you haven't. There are a few videos there regarding this problem.
Take a look at the following video. Apparently Casio has taken some measures to identify the fakes.

[eugene]

I find it odd that my good old calc has no patents listed on the back, but the one that I suspect is a knockoff has all sorts of patents listed.  [...]

I didn't check all of the patents, but the ones that I did were awarded to an independent inventor named Gilbert P. Hyatt. According to a web page, he didn't make much money on the patents until he sold them to Phillips Electronics. Not sure what it has to do with anything...

[MikeK]

I find it odd that my good old calc has no patents listed on the back, but the one that I suspect is a knockoff has all sorts of patents listed.  [...]

I didn't check all of the patents, but the ones that I did were awarded to an independent inventor named Gilbert P. Hyatt. According to a web page, he didn't make much money on the patents until he sold them to Phillips Electronics. Not sure what it has to do with anything...

Yep, I looked up several of them and, of course, got the same results...that Hyatt dude.  He also sued the USPO because he was applying for so many patents and they started denying him at some point.

[Mechatrommer]

I didn't check all of the patents, but the ones that I did were awarded to an independent inventor named Gilbert P. Hyatt. According to a web page, he didn't make much money on the patents until he sold them to Phillips Electronics. Not sure what it has to do with anything...

reading the link disturb me about SAWS... discriminating independent inventors by the power up there.. i'm not sure whats behind it but from what i understand, i hope Gilbert P. Hyatt win the case while he still around. and if i read it correctly, Gilbert P. Hyatt is the rightful (based on who write the patent/invention first on paper) inventor of microprocessor?

ps: reading other materials trying to understand this matter...
https://www.schwabe.com/newsroom-publications-gilbert-p-hyatt-v-andrew-hirsfeld-appeal-nos-2019-2390-2391-2392-2019-1038-1039-1049-1070-fed-cir-june-1-2021
https://www.quinnemanuel.com/the-firm/publications/lead-article-snooze-think-again-prosecution-laches-and-why-applicants-and-litigants-should-beware/

[MikeK]

ps: reading other materials trying to understand this matter...
https://www.schwabe.com/newsroom-publications-gilbert-p-hyatt-v-andrew-hirsfeld-appeal-nos-2019-2390-2391-2392-2019-1038-1039-1049-1070-fed-cir-june-1-2021
https://www.quinnemanuel.com/the-firm/publications/lead-article-snooze-think-again-prosecution-laches-and-why-applicants-and-litigants-should-beware/

Wow, interesting.  This guy is a dick in my book.  I have to wonder if he ever had anything manufactured with his patented ideas, or if he just intended to make money by suing.

[Mechatrommer]

yeah. the system can be "hacked", i thought this patent business is that simple. still i dont understand all about patenting rules and regulation, btw OT...

[amyk]

While looking around for more clues or an answer to this mystery, I stumbled upon this image which shows the same two variants as in the OP: https://casio.ledudu.com/images/calculs/casio/machines/zoom/fx260SolarX2.jpg found on  https://casio.ledudu.com/pockets.asp?type=927&lg=eng

[MikeK]

Right, so what does that mean?

[xrunner]

While looking around for more clues or an answer to this mystery, I stumbled upon this image which shows the same two variants as in the OP: https://casio.ledudu.com/images/calculs/casio/machines/zoom/fx260SolarX2.jpg found on  https://casio.ledudu.com/pockets.asp?type=927&lg=eng

Using that pic you can see the font printed on the keys seems to be the same. However the font used above and below the keys is not identical between the two. Wonder why?

[MikeK]

That's my point.  Why would Casio bother to do a very slight redesign.  It's just a waste of money.  I'm curious...I'm gonna contact Casio and see what they say.

[rsjsouza]

Due to the absence of WEEE marking at the rear side, I think the newer calculator is either a knockoff or exclusive for markets that don't care about it. Casio.com in the US does not show it anymore.

Apart from the keyboard material, from the photographs the only significant difference I see is the display size and its surroundings. Perhaps a short supply of the original display prompted the redesign?

[MikeK]

More than just the keyboard material and display.  The case is smaller in all dimensions.  PCB inside is also different.  Maybe kinda pointless, but I thought it was odd.

[MikeK]

Well, I got another of the original style from eBay.  Looks identical in every way to my first one.  I did the 9>sin>cos>tan>atan>acos>asin test and got different results, though.  My original calc shows 9.000015685 and this other [identical] one shows 9.000007164

[amyk]

The good news is you got a more accurate one. The bad news is, this mystery continues even more... according to the table linked above, the only known calculators to give that result are 3 Casios (not the same model)  and 2 Radio Shacks.

[Haenk]

Note that there is a decade difference in manufacturing date.
So even a different contract manufacturer would not be a huge surprise - maybe there is still a local production facility using "the old style" somewhere in the world.

[Swake]

Have these calculators been calibrated recently? 🤓

[smithnerd]

This fx-82solar, which is the same model for the UK market, is identical to your ebay rubber keyed version.

I bought this one to replace an identical model (also rubber keys) that I gave away after my sitting my university finals in 1997, so it's pretty ancient. Made in China rather than Malaysia. Same list of patents.

Perfect for workshop use. I keep mine stuck to the lathe cabinet with a magnet.

[MikeK]

This got me to thinking about something else...Why do some calcs use the '=' key to allow repeating an operation and other calcs don't?  I find it a useful feature to be able to keep hitting '='.

[rockzzstud]

I also looked at the new redesign (that has the textured body and no mode legend below the display) and it too has no patents listed.  So why does that one [suspiciously changed] unit do it?

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[EEVblog]

Turns out, though, that this new one is slightly different than the other one.  It's not the completely new redesign that Casio did that has the weird patterned/textured body.

I prefer the Solar II 
Always wanted to get a custom EEVblog branded Casio FX-260 but they ignored my requests 

[EEVblog]

The good news is you got a more accurate one. The bad news is, this mystery continues even more... according to the table linked above, the only known calculators to give that result are 3 Casios (not the same model)  and 2 Radio Shacks.

All Radio Shack/Tandy calcs are indentical rebranded Casio models.

[MikeK]

I prefer the Solar II 
Always wanted to get a custom EEVblog branded Casio FX-260 but they ignored my requests 

Interesting.  Your "original" FX-260 is the one that I'm calling the knockoff.*  Made in Malaysia, soft keys, shorter LCD height, poor LCD readability at an angle, and slower (69 factorial test).  Get the "original original"*...It's the best of all; it's as fast as the Solar II, has hard keys, better display, and the easier to read key labels.  I now have two of these and I'll get another off eBay...They're great for keeping in my messenger bag, and by my lathe.

* What I'm calling the knockoff might actually be the original?  Since the other two have the same LCD height, same type of hard keys, and both made in China.  And what I'm calling the "original original" is probably the final version of the Solar before the introduction of the Solar II.

[DavidKo]

What I see from the pictures - smaller display, smaller PCB, smaller case - cheaper to produce. Don't forget that if you save 10 cents on million batch device you will earn USD100k. Next reason can be supply chain, worn off tools for plastic (even steel one need the maintenance), new calculator chip etc. Don't forget Casio is Japanese firm - they like to improve.

[EEVblog]

What I see from the pictures - smaller display, smaller PCB, smaller case - cheaper to produce. Don't forget that if you save 10 cents on million batch device you will earn USD100k. Next reason can be supply chain, worn off tools for plastic (even steel one need the maintenance), new calculator chip etc. Don't forget Casio is Japanese firm - they like to improve.

My biggest commercial project was 300k boards. Shaving 10 cents off the cost of each board was worth $30k in time and effort to focus on that one thing.