Author Topic: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?  (Read 3227 times)

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Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« on: March 17, 2023, 06:19:44 pm »
Hello - I'm in need of buying a so-called "magnifying lamp" which is essentially a magnifying glass with LED lights mounted on an adjustable frame like this one:
https://modelisme.shop/Magnifying-lamp-with-clamp-foot-4037373777709

That one comes with both 3D and 5D exchangeable lenses but I can only find 3D OR 5D fixed lens versions locally for safe delivery.

Which one would be a safe bet for general purpose solder work which is mostly NON-SMD ? 3D or 5D (1.75x or 2.25x)?

I know, I know - the best answer would be to check it before buying but it's not possible in my situation. I can only order it online and hope for the right choice.

30 years ago I could easily solder 2.54 mm pin headers without any sight aids... not any longer. However - I still don't wear glasses as I get by without them for the majority of everyday tasks and only occasionally reach for a hand-help mag-glass to look at smallish things.

EDIT: For clarification, the 3D and 5D are magnifications in diopters (US spelling, dioptres for GB), that is 3 diopters and 5 diopters. The actual magnification ratios are 1.75x and 2.25x correspondingly.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 06:31:33 pm by VSV_electron »
 

Online shapirus

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2023, 06:54:21 pm »
Can you solder 2.54 mm * 1.75 = 4.45 mm joints without sight aids? What about 2.54 mm * 2.25 = 5.7 mm?
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 07:41:00 pm »
Hello - I'm in need of buying a so-called "magnifying lamp" which is essentially a magnifying glass with LED lights mounted on an adjustable frame like this one:
https://modelisme.shop/Magnifying-lamp-with-clamp-foot-4037373777709

That one comes with both 3D and 5D exchangeable lenses but I can only find 3D OR 5D fixed lens versions locally for safe delivery.

Which one would be a safe bet for general purpose solder work which is mostly NON-SMD ? 3D or 5D (1.75x or 2.25x)?

I know, I know - the best answer would be to check it before buying but it's not possible in my situation. I can only order it online and hope for the right choice.

30 years ago I could easily solder 2.54 mm pin headers without any sight aids... not any longer. However - I still don't wear glasses as I get by without them for the majority of everyday tasks and only occasionally reach for a hand-help mag-glass to look at smallish things.

EDIT: For clarification, the 3D and 5D are magnifications in diopters (US spelling, dioptres for GB), that is 3 diopters and 5 diopters. The actual magnification ratios are 1.75x and 2.25x correspondingly.

Actually, diopters relate to the focal length of the lens:  the diopter value is the reciprocal of the focal length in meters.
 

Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2023, 08:14:15 pm »
Actually, diopters relate to the focal length of the lens:  the diopter value is the reciprocal of the focal length in meters.

Oh - you could be perfectly right but for me that's only an indication of the magnification factor that is directly asssociated with the diopters value in this particular case and that is what matters.

The question remains however and I probably need to wait for someone who has some hands on experience with similar lenses.
 

Offline LinuxHata

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 08:39:02 pm »
After a long period of trying various ways, including factory made kits, I stopped on this DIY one and found it most practical (I do have 3D microscope as well, but I mostly use it for looking at UV erasable chips - just for fun).

 

Online Benta

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 08:56:31 pm »
I have one similar to the one you link to, but it's got two lenses in one:
The main lens is x3, and there's a smaller x10 lens inserted in the big lens. Great to work with.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 09:07:19 pm »
I now use a DIY camera microscope as also suggested in the video above.
Can be used for anything including very small SMD stuff.

I built it around a recycled JVC camcorder (Full HD, 40x optical zoom), a Barlow lens, LED ring light and a desktop articulated arm - connected to a 14" FullHD LCD monitor.
The camcorder has autofocus, I thought it would not work very well with the added Barlow lens, but it actually does, and it's extremely handy. No need to fiddle with any manual focus.
The optical zoom is also very handy.
Of course 1/ this solution is not cheap, unless you already have the camcorder and LCD monitor, and 2/ it certainly takes some training, but you definitely get used to working this way after a while.

Now just telling what I personally use. If you start and don't even do SMD stuff, one of those magnifying lamps should be fine, and probably much easier to use.
I'd go with a minimum of x3.

 
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Offline JohanH

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2023, 09:15:23 pm »
I have the following one. I solder down to 0603 SMD with this one without issues. I have started wearing glasses at the computer (+0.75, +1.25), but I'm fine with or without glasses with this magnifier:

https://www.biltema.fi/toimisto---tekniikka/toimisto/toimistovalineet/tyopoydan-valaisimet/suurennuslasilla-varustettu-tyovalo-2000038434
 
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Offline jfiresto

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2023, 09:17:13 pm »
If it is just a simple lens or a pair of simple lenses you are placing before your eye(s) or glasses, then they are largely shortening the focal distance. I tried the pair I have used for through-hole and for larger SMD work and get a working distance range of 30~45cm. That averages out to 2.7 diopters which is within spitting distance of the pair's advertised 2.5X magnification.

You might also try 1.5 diopter (0.67m f.d.) computer glasses which give a comfortable working distance.

EDIT: Changed just to largely.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 07:49:54 am by jfiresto »
-John
 
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Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2023, 09:37:47 pm »
So it sounds like the lens with 5 diopters at 2.25x would have an excessive magnification for my needs?
That means the lens with 3 diopters at 1.75x is all I need?
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2023, 01:36:56 am »
I have a magnifier lamp similar to that. I much prefer reading glasses for up close work. I suggest you try a pair before spending money on the lamp. Unless of course you actually need it for lighting.
 
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Offline mrkev

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2023, 02:08:25 am »
I've tried magnifying lamps, but I am not a fan of them, because You have to get pretty close to what you're working on and after a while, your back will hurt. I have something like this now:
https://www.amazon.com.be/-/en/Professional-Soldering-Microscope-Magnification-Compatible/dp/B07G92FG7L/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=microscope+10x&qid=1679104994&s=industrial&sr=1-11
 
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Offline jfiresto

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2023, 08:21:02 am »
A five diopter correction is going to bring you pretty close to the work and would make me hunch over.

You may find it helpful to forget about magnification, which is often mostly advertising, and focus on your desired working distance. Get comfortable, as if you were building or repairing something, and measure the distance(s) from your eyes to the work. The reciprocal of those distances in meters will suggest the diopter correction you are after. I am not an optometrist, so I took those measurements to one and they worked out what may be the best possible correction. (German optometrists tend to be well trained.) In my case, it was +1.5, but it all depends on your eyes and age.

If it turns out that you really need substantial magnification, you may likely first find true happiness with a binocular dental loupe or, as a fellow fan of them here has just alluded to – a stereo microscope.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 08:25:15 am by jfiresto »
-John
 
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Online jonpaul

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2023, 11:19:32 am »
Get a genuine OptiVisor, available in various dioptries $35..60

We also use the LED headlamps, from Duracell.

The magnifying lights like Luxo are not as useful.

Jon

Jean-Paul  the Internet Dinosaur
 
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Offline Veketti

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 02:04:08 pm »
How much are you able to spend? If you have chance to spend around 370€ I'd highly recommend stereo microscope like this.

It's Chinese but with European warehouse. Nothing beats stereo microscope as you have no lag that is introduced with any usb microscopes etc. so the hand eye coordination really work. I can easily hand solder 10 pin MSOP package using one of these. Nowadays I do all the soldering under this even though I could see it without, it is just so good. Even though it is Chinese, the optical quality is super! It also has camera which you could use to have the image to display, but its quality is bad and don't even think about soldering with it due to lag. Your brain will never get used to the lag (or at least mine didn't). It is amazing how your brain can adjust your movement to so precise when looking through microscope. Unfortunately prices have gone up as I paid from mine around $300, two and a half years back.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 02:07:08 pm by Veketti »
 
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Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 02:44:40 pm »
As a matter of fact the Asian trinoc/binoc microscope from the Banggood which comes under various brands (and definitely made at the same factory) is within my reach at the moment.
However, isn't that device out of proportion (sorry I hate the word 'overk...') for non-SMD, mostly DIP and through the hole solder work?
 

Offline jfiresto

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2023, 04:38:01 pm »
If, as you wrote, that you still don't wear them, you may very well find a pair of prescription eyeglasses custom focused at your favored working distance may be all that you need.

If I were in your shoes, I would take something I work on, hoof it to a good optometrist, and let them test your vision and discover your prescription. Once they have that, you can ask them to set it up in the fixture, shift it to focus for your working distance(s), and let you see how it works. It would not surprise me if they agree to the experiment, and not charge you for it, because of the likelihood of winning another customer.


« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 04:42:23 pm by jfiresto »
-John
 
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Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2023, 07:35:12 pm »
As a matter of fact the Asian trinoc/binoc microscope from the Banggood which comes under various brands (and definitely made at the same factory) is within my reach at the moment.
However, isn't that device out of proportion (sorry I hate the word 'overk...') for non-SMD, mostly DIP and through the hole solder work?

Are  you sure you will enjoy soldering under a "dissecting" microscope?  I have many hours driving dissecting microscopes and still choose my 2X glass headband magnifier for assembly.*  If you can, try it before you buy it. Age is a factor.  At my age, doing everything reasonable to steady my hands is important.  Thus, I sit low with arms slightly raised on the table.  That is the opposite of what is needed with the scopes being discussed here.

 *You can buy glasses in (+) diopters to fit your needs at any pharmacy or Walmart store without a prescription in the US.
 
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Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2023, 09:12:29 pm »
...
Are  you sure you will enjoy soldering under a "dissecting" microscope?  I have many hours driving dissecting microscopes and still choose my 2X glass headband magnifier for assembly.*  If you can, try it before you buy it. Age is a factor.  At my age, doing everything reasonable to steady my hands is important.  Thus, I sit low with arms slightly raised on the table.  That is the opposite of what is needed with the scopes being discussed here.

 *You can buy glasses in (+) diopters to fit your needs at any pharmacy or Walmart store without a prescription in the US.

You were reading my thoughts on that: I was really hesitant to imagine myself soldering a 2.54 pin header to a 1602 LCD under the trinoc microscope that Veketti suggested above. While I can't any longer confidently work on this size of the pieces (the way I was able to approach them 30 years ago without any sight aids) I feel that for this purpose the 'dissecting' microscope as you called it is probably too much.

I'm sure such a scope would be really useful for SMD work and for any SOP/QFP stuff. I'm not going to do lots of that, however - I've got couple dozen of SOP ICs that I indeed was going to solder to the SOP-to-DIP adapter plates.

Do people buy these scopes mostly for really tiny stuff such as 0805/0603 Imperial and below or are they useful for anything larger?

NOTE: I wasn't even considering the trinoc scope but since it was suggested by Veketti above that he uses it just for fun for a variety of soldering tasks even where it's application is not necessary I wonder if soldering under such a scope becomes addictive in a way.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2023, 09:24:01 pm »
I have a magnifier lamp similar to that. I much prefer reading glasses for up close work.

That's "interesting", I would have thought of reading glasses for farsighted people, but not necessarily for people with "normal" vision to be used as magnifying glasses.
I guess that should work, at least for relatively small magnification factors.
I have tried magnifying glasses in the past - you know, the kind that is sometimes used by surgeons - but they tend to be very heavy and thus very uncomfortable (the pro ones really made for surgeons are probably much better in terms of comfort though, but pretty expensive.)
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2023, 10:33:02 pm »
1) I am 80 and have very little  accomodation.  That is, accomodation, as opposed to reaction to light, allows you to focus at shorter distances.  Normally, one starts to lose accomodation at about age 45.  That's why older people wear reading glasses (+ diopter).  I keep 3 or four pairs of "reading" glasses: +2 for ordinary reading; +1.50 for computer monitor that is further away; and +2.5 to +3.0 for welding.  Thankfully, they are cheap, and I have multiple pairs.

2) I would distinguish "farsightedness" in young people from the effects of accommodation that older folks experience.
 
3) "Nearsighted" people (those needing negative diopters when young) are more sensitive to the correction.  In the US, one can buy "reading glasses" at many stores.  Glasses to correct nearsightedness require a prescription. 

4) If your eyesight was effectively normal, a 2X visor will work fine.  If you need closer work, wear reading glasses underneath.  The problem with microscope oculars (eyepieces) is that they do not move with you.  Even WF (widefield) large (e.g., 22mm) can be annoying to work with .  The headvisor follows your head wherever you look.  As an aside, I sometimes have to peek under it to get my soldering iron into its holder.  But, I can pretty much do that by feel most of the time.

5) Another problem with a microscope is that it requires your head to be quite a bit higher from the PCB you are soldering than a headvisor requires.*  That results in your arms being lower.  Jewelers' benches are usually quite high, because your control is better with your arms slightly raised on a bench.

6) I do use my dissection microscope for photographs.

7) Getting old is not for sissies. :)

*EDIT:  I am referring to relatively inexpensive ones on Amscope, etc. Very expensive ones can have the oculars at almost any height for the user, e.g., ones used in surgery.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 05:13:52 am by jpanhalt »
 
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Offline donlisms

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2023, 01:53:28 am »
I use head-worn magnifiers, like glasses.  These are cheap, fairly light weight if you get the right ones, have three LED brightness levels (or off), and come with a whole box full of interchangeable lenses.  I like 'em. I use them for things other than soldering; the problem is my eyes, which I leave installed all the time.

I also keep a 4x or 5x loupe handy, always.  One of my single most-used tools, after the bench and chair.

I found the stalk-mounted magnifier was always in the way, and always in the wrong place, and single-element optics just don't scale well in size.  I'm not fond of all the red and blue fringe and general bad sharpness.  The little head-worn lenses aren't so bad those ways.
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2023, 04:11:56 pm »
1) I am 80 and have very little  accomodation.  That is, accomodation, as opposed to reaction to light, allows you to focus at shorter distances.  Normally, one starts to lose accomodation at about age 45.  That's why older people wear reading glasses (+ diopter).  I keep 3 or four pairs of "reading" glasses: +2 for ordinary reading; +1.50 for computer monitor that is further away; and +2.5 to +3.0 for welding.  Thankfully, they are cheap, and I have multiple pairs.

2) I would distinguish "farsightedness" in young people from the effects of accommodation that older folks experience.
 
3) "Nearsighted" people (those needing negative diopters when young) are more sensitive to the correction.  In the US, one can buy "reading glasses" at many stores.  Glasses to correct nearsightedness require a prescription. 

4) If your eyesight was effectively normal, a 2X visor will work fine.  If you need closer work, wear reading glasses underneath.  The problem with microscope oculars (eyepieces) is that they do not move with you.  Even WF (widefield) large (e.g., 22mm) can be annoying to work with .  The headvisor follows your head wherever you look.  As an aside, I sometimes have to peek under it to get my soldering iron into its holder.  But, I can pretty much do that by feel most of the time.

5) Another problem with a microscope is that it requires your head to be quite a bit higher from the PCB you are soldering than a headvisor requires.*  That results in your arms being lower.  Jewelers' benches are usually quite high, because your control is better with your arms slightly raised on a bench.

6) I do use my dissection microscope for photographs.

7) Getting old is not for sissies. :)

*EDIT:  I am referring to relatively inexpensive ones on Amscope, etc. Very expensive ones can have the oculars at almost any height for the user, e.g., ones used in surgery.

For those who wish to read about the age-related loss of accommodation, the technical term is "presbyopia", etymologically related to "presbyter" for "elder".
Historically, many people misunderstand Milton's poem ending "New Presbyter is but Old Priest writ large".
 

Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2023, 12:55:37 am »
...
For those who wish to read about the age-related loss of accommodation, the technical term is "presbyopia", etymologically related to "presbyter" for "elder".
Historically, many people misunderstand Milton's poem ending "New Presbyter is but Old Priest writ large".

Tim - I've never read Milton's poem ending "New Presbyter is but Old Priest writ large" and don't have a clue how to interpret that ending. Sounds weird.
 

Offline VSV_electronTopic starter

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Re: Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2023, 01:41:07 am »
...
Nothing beats stereo microscope as you have no lag that is introduced with any usb microscopes etc. so the hand eye coordination really work.
...
Your brain will never get used to the lag (or at least mine didn't).
...

I wonder who would win the battle of '...Your brain will never get used to the lag...' if you got into argument with this guy who insists that nothing beats a digital scope and he unconditionally prefers it over the optical stereo scope which gives him nothing but headache:



He explains his choice here if you don't want to watch the whole video:
https://youtu.be/NfkXitg5R4I?t=575
 


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