Author Topic: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin  (Read 3062 times)

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Offline SirRage

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Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« on: May 31, 2016, 07:56:05 am »
Hey there,

I have an oscilloscope that has a fan in it that buzzes on startup and drones like a swarm of bees, and I'd like to fix that. I can't seem to find a 24v fan in that size package outside of used pulls, so I had the brilliant idea that I could take a modern low noise 12v fan which had a similar footprint and same CFM and make some kind of adapt it to work for my application. The thing is I'm not really sure where I am suppose to start.

First thing is, I'm not very sure how this is normally done. Taking a power source of 24v and stepping it down to 12v. I'm also not even sure what kind of shielding requirements might exist given that this is a piece of test equipment and adding any kind of additional circuitry might throw something out of spec.

So if you guys have some input for me, or some reading material to direct me to, that would be most helpful. Thanks!

Existing Unit:
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS AND CURRENT TYPE: 24.0 DC
VOLTAGE RANGE: 12 TO 28 VOLTS DC
PRIME MOVER POWER RATING: 5.0 WATTS

Replacement Unit:
Voltage: 12v
Current: 0.16 A (0.28 max)
Power Consumption: 3.36w
 

Offline danadak

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 09:52:53 am »
You could -

1) Use simple dropping R if its not a T controlled fan. Wastes power but is a low noise
solution.

2) Do a simple 3 terminal regulator, with heat sink, also low noise but wastes power.
Can be adapted to T controlled solution as well.

3) Use a PWM controlled solution. Saves power but generates more noise. Can also
be used in T control loop.

If fan is brushless keep in mind it also gens noise, its current draw not a DC current.






Regards, Dana.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 09:59:35 am by danadak »
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 11:50:31 am »
3) Use a PWM controlled solution. Saves power but generates more noise. Can also
be used in T control loop.
That may be a problem if it's a brushless fan, as the controller will probably not like 24V pulses on its power supply rail. If you're using PWM with a brushless fan, add an inductor and capacitor to form a buck regulator, which needn't be regulated, so long as the output voltage doesn't ever exceed the fan's absolute absolute maximum rating.
 


Offline danadak

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Offline batteksystem

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 03:23:58 am »
Just use a DC-DC converter. 24V->12V conversion is very common, you do need to watch the size though.

Offline jitter

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 05:06:20 am »
Hey there,

I have an oscilloscope that has a fan in it that buzzes on startup and drones like a swarm of bees, and I'd like to fix that. I can't seem to find a 24v fan in that size package outside of used pulls, so I had the brilliant idea that I could take a modern low noise 12v fan which had a similar footprint and same CFM and make some kind of adapt it to work for my application. The thing is I'm not really sure where I am suppose to start.

First thing is, I'm not very sure how this is normally done. Taking a power source of 24v and stepping it down to 12v. I'm also not even sure what kind of shielding requirements might exist given that this is a piece of test equipment and adding any kind of additional circuitry might throw something out of spec.

So if you guys have some input for me, or some reading material to direct me to, that would be most helpful. Thanks!

Existing Unit:
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS AND CURRENT TYPE: 24.0 DC
VOLTAGE RANGE: 12 TO 28 VOLTS DC
PRIME MOVER POWER RATING: 5.0 WATTS

Replacement Unit:
Voltage: 12v
Current: 0.16 A (0.28 max)
Power Consumption: 3.36w

I think a few questions should be answered first before you start swapping out stuff:
- Did this fan always behave this way, or has this become worse over time?
- If you start the scope, does it spin fast and drop down and settle on a lower speed?
- If it seems to spin only at one speed, does it really or can a hot environment actually make it spin faster?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 07:55:10 pm »
I would just do a voltage divider and tap off across one resistor.

Assuming a 300 mA 12V fan.. Not willing to do the math right now, but some rough values.. If you put a 30 ohm resistor and a 150 ohm resistor in series with the 24 VDC supply and then connect the fan across the 150 ohm resistor that should work..?

You'll be dissipating like 5W or so in the 30 ohm resistor, which is a drawback.. And a watt or two in the other..

Compared to how much power test gear draw on standby these days it's probably fine.
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Online tautech

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 08:03:10 pm »
I have an oscilloscope that has a fan in it that buzzes on startup and drones like a swarm of bees, and I'd like to fix that. I can't seem to find a 24v fan in that size package outside of used pulls, so I had the brilliant idea that I could take a modern low noise 12v fan which had a similar footprint and same CFM and make some kind of adapt it to work for my application. The thing is I'm not really sure where I am suppose to start.
To avoid overlooking the obvious please state the brand and model  ^^ as there may be a thread here with a simple/suitable remedy for you.
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Offline ZeTeX

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 08:03:03 am »
I would use LM7812 and be done with it.
12*0.3= 3.6W of dissipation, You will need a small heat sink.
You would use any heat sink that has lower resistance then 10C/W.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2016, 05:49:33 pm »
don't pwm a brushless fan unless as hero said you make a dirty smps converter by low pass filtering it to 12V
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 05:51:53 pm by Simon »
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steverino

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2016, 07:39:25 pm »
You could -

1) Use simple dropping R if its not a T controlled fan. Wastes power but is a low noise
solution.

2) Do a simple 3 terminal regulator, with heat sink, also low noise but wastes power.
Can be adapted to T controlled solution as well.

3) Use a PWM controlled solution. Saves power but generates more noise. Can also
be used in T control loop.

If fan is brushless keep in mind it also gens noise, its current draw not a DC current.

Regards, Dana.

Ok, I'll bite.  The "T" stands for transistor?
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2016, 07:41:14 pm »
No I think he meant temperature. A lot of equipment has a temperature -controlled fan to try and quieten the fan down when the machine is cool.
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2016, 02:01:16 am »
12 volt 5 watt zener diode e.g. 1N5349B in series with the 12 volt fan.
The End.
 

Offline jitter

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Re: Making a 12v fan work with a 24v applicatin
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2016, 06:25:47 am »
No I think he meant temperature. A lot of equipment has a temperature -controlled fan to try and quieten the fan down when the machine is cool.

Agreed, hence the questions in my previous post, but OP doesn't seem to check back...
 


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