Author Topic: melting solder in a pot  (Read 3619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
melting solder in a pot
« on: April 14, 2021, 10:24:24 pm »
Can u melt solder in a pot on the stove,   does it give off heaps of fumes?
 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11771
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 10:28:07 pm »
If it is solid bar solder (no flux), it will not give off any fumes. Do not try to melt flux cored solder though.

There are specially made solder pots for this purpose. Since molten solder is very dangerous it is better not to try melting it on the stove. Use something properly designed, and use it in a well ventilated workshop or garage.
 
The following users thanked this post: Capernicus

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11771
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2021, 10:30:40 pm »
Also use proper safety equipment (eye protection, gloves, shop coat, etc.)
 
The following users thanked this post: Capernicus

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2021, 12:23:58 am »
Im going to try and cast a pcb with a plaster mould!   8)
 

Offline wizard69

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1175
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 01:29:12 am »
Im going to try and cast a pcb with a plaster mould!   8)

That might not be a good idea.   You run the risk of vaporizing any retained water in the plaster and causing it to literally blow lead in your face.    For a very similar reason welders do not use a cutting torch on concrete floors and casting operations often have sand floor where the metal is poured.

Now people have used plaster in lost wax casting of metals but the plaster is "dried out" in the oven.   Further the form is usually supported in dry sand.   Still not something I'd recommend.

Beyond all of that I'm not sure why you would use lead to cast a PCB.   In any event do you melting outdoors.
 
The following users thanked this post: Capernicus

Offline highpower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 01:43:28 am »
Also use proper safety equipment (eye protection, gloves, shop coat, etc.)

That includes wearing a good pair of leather shoes/boots. Molten lead spills have a knack for finding a direct path to your feet. Thin athletic shoes, walking, or tennis shoes will not protect you. One time is all it takes to make you remember that.  :o 
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, Capernicus

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 02:01:31 am »


Im going to try and cast a pcb with a plaster mould!   8)

That might not be a good idea.   You run the risk of vaporizing any retained water in the plaster and causing it to literally blow lead in your face.    For a very similar reason welders do not use a cutting torch on concrete floors and casting operations often have sand floor where the metal is poured.

Now people have used plaster in lost wax casting of metals but the plaster is "dried out" in the oven.   Further the form is usually supported in dry sand.   Still not something I'd recommend.

Beyond all of that I'm not sure why you would use lead to cast a PCB.   In any event do you melting outdoors.


Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.


Also use proper safety equipment (eye protection, gloves, shop coat, etc.)

That includes wearing a good pair of leather shoes/boots. Molten lead spills have a knack for finding a direct path to your feet. Thin athletic shoes, walking, or tennis shoes will not protect you. One time is all it takes to make you remember that.  :o 

Ill double check my boots before I get going!

 

Offline BrokenYugo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1067
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2021, 03:35:33 am »
Melting lead in your kitchen is a bad idea.
 

Offline Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12753
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2021, 03:57:27 am »
Im going to try and cast a pcb with a plaster mould!   8)
Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.
WTF have I just read???

A PCB consists of conductive tracks bonded to (or embedded between layers of) a flat insulating substrate.  If you wish to solder to it the tracks must be of a solderable metal or have solderable plating at the pads and must withstand soldering temperatures without melting or debonding from the substrate.

There is no way to produce a PCB by pouring molten solder into *anything* let alone plaster or 3D printed thermoplastics.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 03:59:19 am by Ian.M »
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline JustMeHere

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 718
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 04:13:19 am »
I've read of people using a cast iron skillet to successfully reflow solder. 

 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11771
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2021, 04:17:54 am »
I've read of people using a cast iron skillet to successfully reflow solder.

That's not what Capernicus is talking about though. What has reflowing got to do with pouring molten solder into a mould?
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2021, 04:18:26 am »
Just think of the plusses!

You dont solder to put your components on, you just need to warm it up and stick em in!  =)

You start off by putting the negative space (insulator) down with some kind of insulator (maybe just give it a clay base?),  then you pull out the positive space extrusion, and the lead is supposed to go into these cracks from so many pipe ins, that you snip off afterwards.

I havent fully thought it through,  maybe I better get back to thinking about it.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 04:22:38 am by Capernicus »
 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11771
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2021, 04:20:46 am »
I melted about a thimbleful of solder once, as an experiment in tinning the ends of wires by dipping. It was scary enough that I decided not to do it again. Molten metal is really nasty stuff.
 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11771
  • Country: us
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2021, 04:22:55 am »
Just think of the plusses!

You dont solder to put your components on, you just need to warm it up and stick em in!  =)

You start off by putting the negative space (insulator) down with some kind of plastic insulator resin (Ive got an idea for what id use there.),  then you pull out the positive space extrusion, and the lead is supposed to go into these cracks from so many pipe ins, that you snip off afterwards.

I havent fully thought it through,  maybe I better get back to thinking about it.

There is a standard way for to make circuit boards at home, by etching copper clad board. It is the way it has been done since forever. If you want to experiment with making circuit boards, learn how to do that.

Don't mess with melting large amounts of solder. You will end up at the doctor or in the hospital.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Online ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6389
  • Country: de
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2021, 04:30:03 am »
Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.

Yes, this is absolutely the right way to make PCBs. Especially for use with those $3000 FPGAs you want to work with, as discussed in your other thread.  :palm:

You are a troll, right?
Fair warning to others: Please don't feed!
 
The following users thanked this post: edavid, tooki

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2021, 04:42:15 am »
Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.

Yes, this is absolutely the right way to make PCBs. Especially for use with those $3000 FPGAs you want to work with, as discussed in your other thread.  :palm:

You are a troll, right?
Fair warning to others: Please don't feed!


Im not going to make an FPGA dev board with it!!!

Its more for something crude and nondetailed/miniaturized like a high voltage marx generator,  where all I need is picofarad capacitors resistors and spark gaps,  then I can pour it out in one hit,  a finished product.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 04:44:07 am by Capernicus »
 

Online ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6389
  • Country: de
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2021, 05:00:06 am »
Technical plausibility aside (which I doubt for both, your PCB-casting and your FPGA project) -- your claims on budget are ridiculously inconsistent. You are throwing around top-of-the-line $3000 FPGAs and GPUs in one thread and at the same time are proposing homemade PCBs here to avoid a $20 order from PCBWAY or JLCPCB. Sorry mate, I can't take you seriously.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2021, 06:00:48 am »
Even if FPGA's were $20, ur still better off making em yourself if u want large numbers of things.
 

Offline viperidae

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 306
  • Country: nz
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2021, 06:40:25 am »
Have you even considered the surface tension of liquid solder? It's not going to flow through a mould without force.

Traditional moulds use gravity or large feature sizes. You'll need to hold your components in the mould while you pour too, since soldering to your solder tracks will turn them into a puddle.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ian.M

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9392
  • Country: gb
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2021, 08:31:58 am »
Just think of the plusses!

You dont solder to put your components on, you just need to warm it up and stick em in!  =)

Just think of the minuses!

Solder has very poor conductivity compared to copper.
Best Regards, Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2021, 09:36:57 am »
Just think of the plusses!

You dont solder to put your components on, you just need to warm it up and stick em in!  =)

Just think of the minuses!

Solder has very poor conductivity compared to copper.

you could electroplate it in copper sulphate, then the resistance would go away a lot.
 

Offline fcb

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2117
  • Country: gb
  • Test instrument designer/G1YWC
    • Electron Plus
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2021, 09:48:59 am »
Quote
Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.
I needed a good laugh.  Please let us know how this goes.
https://electron.plus Power Analysers, VI Signature Testers, Voltage References, Picoammeters, Curve Tracers.
 
The following users thanked this post: Capernicus

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2021, 10:03:09 am »
Quote
Yes, I noticed on a few vids on utube that the molten metal can bubble fairly furiously once in the mould, and it takes ages to settle down and it can ruin the surface of the cast tremendously,   this looks like a serious issue to get over, for mould quality and safety like ur advising me.   But I want to avoid using PCBWAY its too expensive,   so teaming up with my 3dprinter and a cheap bag of plaster ill give it a go.
I needed a good laugh.  Please let us know how this goes.

lol
 

Offline Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12753
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2021, 10:27:00 am »
One could make ceramic PCBs by painting the traces onto the ceramic using a slip made from silver art clay then kiln firing it.   However you need sheets of high temperature ceramic, and if its got to be through hole, you'll probably have to send it out for laser drilling.  That certainly wont be cheap.

It is *POSSIBLE* to 3D print with lowish melting point metals but its far from simple:

Conceivably this rig could be modified to print solder or even a high copper 600-700 deg C melting point brazing alloy from wire to make your tracks.  Its going to need an inert atmosphere.   Use a removable bed and transfer it to a resin printer to over-print the tracks with the PCB substrate using high-temperature resin.  Congratulations: you've now got a crappy single sided low resolution PCB for an initial investment of tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds and a per-unit cost far higher than PCBWAY will charge you for  five fine geometry double sided PCBs with solder-mask, silk-screen and ENIG on the pads!  |O
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 10:29:25 am by Ian.M »
 
The following users thanked this post: Capernicus

Offline CapernicusTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 483
  • Country: au
Re: melting solder in a pot
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2021, 10:49:56 am »
Your taking it too far!   :scared:   How much harder than making little lead army men can it be?  That's what I was watching when the idea popped in my head.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf