Author Topic: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage  (Read 12290 times)

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Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2017, 02:03:17 pm »
the real answer is to open the psu and replace the 2pin inlet with a 3pin one.
re-case it if you have to.
or go on ebay and get a chinese metal-frame 24v 6a+ psu

also the iron should really be earthed through a 1meg resistor incase of earth faults in the building.
it will let the iron disipate static etc, but will limit the current to a safe level if anything bad happens.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 02:06:03 pm by stj »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2017, 02:12:59 pm »
is it this?
https://www.sainsmart.com/pro-32-digital-oled-programable-soldering-iron-station-embedded-interface-dc-5525.htm

they are saying 40w?

the iron can pull 70w at 24v.
so either the psu is under voltage, or under-rated, or they are just full of shit!

what's the spec printed on the psu?
their wiki says "With 19V 2A power supply, SainSmart Pro32 takes only about 11 seconds to heat up to 300 degrees."
is that what they are supplying??
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 02:20:46 pm by stj »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2017, 02:24:37 pm »
also the iron should really be earthed through a 1meg resistor incase of earth faults in the building.
it will let the iron disipate static etc, but will limit the current to a safe level if anything bad happens.
All grounded equipment is always connected directly to the earth. Including tips of all ESD safe soldering stations. No 1M resistors there. If there is the earth fault, there will be much worse problems in your house as your PC, fridge, washing machine and most of other equipment is directly connected to it too.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2017, 02:46:47 pm »
my old weller DS80 used a limiting resistor - it's in the schematics.
also, Hakko 888D has the option by moving a pin on the iron connector.
(with / without resistor)
 

Offline bodger

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2017, 03:09:38 pm »
is it this?
https://www.sainsmart.com/pro-32-digital-oled-programable-soldering-iron-station-embedded-interface-dc-5525.htm

they are saying 40w?

the iron can pull 70w at 24v.
so either the psu is under voltage, or under-rated, or they are just full of shit!

what's the spec printed on the psu?
their wiki says "With 19V 2A power supply, SainSmart Pro32 takes only about 11 seconds to heat up to 300 degrees."
is that what they are supplying??

Yes that's the one (link is broken now). They supply it with a 19V power supply, but it can operate between 12-24V (they claim 17W to 65W, which is accurate you will get 65W @ 24V) typically these irons do not come with a PSU (Sainsmart has just decided to supply one, with an EU socket). They are fairly accurate with the heating time, I timed it at around 12sec with the 19V supply against the temperature sensor on my extech using a k-type sensor and it hit roughly 300degC.
The iron itself is fine, they should have been a bit more wiser and supplied it with a grounded PSU. Other than that I'm pretty happy with it.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2017, 03:47:21 pm »
my old weller DS80 used a limiting resistor - it's in the schematics.
DS80 is not a soldering station. If you mean WSD 80 or WS 80, there is no resistor.
Quote
also, Hakko 888D has the option by moving a pin on the iron connector.
(with / without resistor)
Option? You mean modding the iron and loosing warranty?
Quote
Power consumption   65W (26V)
Tip to ground resistance   <2ohm
Tip to ground potential   <2mV
Heating element   Ceramic heater
Standard tip   Shape-B (No.T18-B)
Cord length   1.2m
Total length   217mm (with B tip)
Weight   46g (with B tip)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 03:52:14 pm by wraper »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2017, 05:57:17 pm »
DS80 is an 80w desoldering station.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2017, 06:32:27 pm »
DS80 is an 80w desoldering station.
It's desoldering iron/tool, not station. It must be connected to the soldering station in the first place.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2017, 06:36:28 pm »
Confirmed, i am an idiot. So problem is AC ripple of 115V. I saw "leak" in title and it was late and i imagined high impedance dc potential.

So if you say wanted to add a ground to your smps, could u "just" change the figure 8 connector (and cord) to the 3 prong kind and then connect that wire from earth to the negative of the dc output? Or do you have to do something to the Y caps, too?

I say "just" because the connector would have to physically fit just right.

Perhaps there's an opportunity for a kit for this type of problem that wouldnt risk voiding UL cert or rause firemarshall/insurer eyebrow.  You get a small black box with a Dell 3 prong cord. Out of the black box you get a very short pigtail figure 8 AC cord and a lone 4mm socket for a ground connection where u can earth stuff? Label to show maximum amps of the cord?

Can this sell like snowcones in july?

I ask this because it is ok to connect a banana plug fly wire to dc side of the output cable yourself, is it not? As long as the smps black box remains sealed and unaltered, is good? (Also, besides insurance concerns, most SMPS are in a case that is ultrasonically welded. So there is no way to close it back up that looks nice). So I imagine if you could make this "kit" people would buy it. Perhaps instead of a pigtail figure 8 cord, it would just have the connector extending out the side, so you can plug it into end end of any SMPS and leave it there, perhaps even glue the two together, effectively changing it from 2 plug AC input to 3 plug grounded.



« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:25:42 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2017, 06:52:23 pm »
Also fwiw, i never measured ac ripple on my unearthed 19v zd99 diy iron, but i used it for a year without ever killing a component. But if op can feel a tingle, i wouod say there is problem!

I have measured ac ripple on my hakko 888 after putting 1 Mohm between tip and earth and it is a fraction of a volt.

(I understand this makes the iron less safe in event u solder to live circuit, if this makes it no longer "ESD safe" i am fine with the common use of the terminology; i have no qualm soldering laser diode with this 1 Mohm earth connection... but i dont know if a 1Mohm earth would be sufficient to bring a 115v ripple down to essentially nothing).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:04:44 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2017, 07:15:58 pm »
DS80 is an 80w desoldering station.
It's desoldering iron/tool, not station. It must be connected to the soldering station in the first place.

no, it's a station - like the soldering stations but with an internal pump.
DONT MAKE ME TAKE PHOTO'S OF IT!!
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2017, 07:38:34 pm »
^ This is very interesting. But I wonder @wraper, who cares if is it soldering tool or desoldering tool? What's the difference? Does desoldering tool NOT need to be "esd safe?"

I think the hakko 1 Mohm resistor thing is also something curious. Why would they put a resistor between an unused pin and ground? I supposed there are markets where they prefer 1Mohm connection to earth on this station. Or perhaps they leave it to their customers. I have no concern opening a hakko and/or voiding the warranty, though. In Europe this would be a horror, I suppose, where the Hakko stations are expensive and rare. Over here, they are pretty cheap. And if I thought I'd ever need a warranty on them, I wouldn't be buying them. I'd be buying the Chinese clones in the first place.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:40:37 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2017, 07:40:58 pm »
DS80 is an 80w desoldering station.
It's desoldering iron/tool, not station. It must be connected to the soldering station in the first place.

no, it's a station - like the soldering stations but with an internal pump.
DONT MAKE ME TAKE PHOTO'S OF IT!!
Really?
http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/825000-849999/831816-an-01-en-Entloet_Set.pdf
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:45:50 pm by wraper »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2017, 07:51:49 pm »
^ This is very interesting. But I wonder @wraper, who cares if is it soldering tool or desoldering tool? What's the difference? Does desoldering tool NOT need to be "esd safe?"
He made a claim there is a resistor in such station. But such soldering station does not exist in the first place, which makes such claim very dubious. Also I have not seen any weller tool with a resistor on GND inside. Moreover I haven't seen a single soldering station with the tip connected through resistor and not directly to the earth.
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2017, 08:10:06 pm »
Quote
the iron should really be earthed through a 1meg resistor

All / Any "grounded" irons specify some 2-5 Ohms from tip to ground.
No way you can get that "through"  a 1M resistor.

Well...OK...except the TS100 that ships with the wrong power supply
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2017, 08:22:30 pm »
BTW I have TS100. Tip is not connected to PSU GND, only to grounding screw. However there is 100n capacitance between PSU and the tip, which easily allows AC leaking from PSU to the tip.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2017, 09:13:23 pm »
Yes, the design of t12 tip looks like it could make a good capacitor.

I agree essentially all "esd safe" irons i have seen are earthed directly. 8n some case that might be necessary to stop the the AC ripple. In all cases it makes the iron safer to use in case of contact of tip with live voltage rail. Only the project may be damaged over the user being electrocuted.

But it there are many irons that have a floating tip. And people use these for esd sensitive components without any problem. Radio shack 2 prong firebrand got many hobbyists by for years. If  floating it good nuff, 1 mohm is better. For t12 iron on a shoddy smps, floating isnt good enough, so 1 mohm might not be good enough, either. But if u add 3 prong, u can presumably ground the dc return directly and remove the problem, despite the tip remains floating or attached thru 1 mohm. Or direct, if that is your preference for personal safety issue. If working on mains and lower voltage, i am gonna be fine with floating tip. If circuit is mistakenly live, the handle of the iron will insulate me. And perhaps i still manage to notice the circuit is live before i kill myself. Rather than 90 percent chance i blow up my project and blackout my lights, lab equipment, and computer.

Maybe if u use earthed iron this is another reason to put the iron on the joint first, before touching the solderwire to it. So u trip the circuit breaker before testing the joint with your left arm tingle detector. ;)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 09:43:58 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2017, 09:27:25 pm »
the DS80 is not a digital station, it's older than your poster.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2017, 09:37:30 pm »
Cool. Maybe it was made before the we became so sue happy. And people had personal resposibility. I believe you, stj.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2017, 09:41:23 pm »
Since so many people viewing this thread have t12 iron, can someone tell me how many connectors are on a t12 tip? My clone tios are on a slow boat from china and i need to work out the drive circuit.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 09:49:56 pm »
the DS80 is not a digital station, it's older than your poster.
Of course it's not digital as it's just a soldering iron without electronics inside. It's up to the user to which compatible station attach it to.
EDIT: if you said DS800, DS600 or DS100, I would believe you. But I don't believe weller made iron and station of exactly the same model.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 09:59:35 pm by wraper »
 

Offline 3db

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2017, 01:23:16 pm »
Who cares ?    :=\
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2017, 04:01:10 pm »
pix
 

Offline stj

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2017, 04:14:12 pm »
Since so many people viewing this thread have t12 iron, can someone tell me how many connectors are on a t12 tip? My clone tios are on a slow boat from china and i need to work out the drive circuit.

you mean the actual cartridges, or the plug on the iron cable?
different handles have differnt plugs.

cartridge pinouts in this:
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 04:27:34 pm by stj »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Mini TS100 soldering iron and current leakage
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 04:57:55 pm »
pix
So... Why you repeatedly claimed it is DS 80 when it's not?
 


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