EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: WhiteFireDragon on October 18, 2012, 11:40:50 am
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Hi, I found this forum through Dave's youtube page, and this will be my first post. I already have a Weller WLC-100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000AS28UC&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20) soldering station and a cheap radioshack desoldering iron (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731), and now I'm looking to upgrade to an all-in-one soldering station because I plan to do some light SMD soldering. Here are the two reflow stations I'm considering:
Aoyue 2702A+ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HDJ5J2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000HDJ5J2&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20)
X-TRONIC 4040 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TC8EQS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003TC8EQS&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20)
The xtronic 4040 is cheaper, and has a 5 star user rating from a pretty decent amount of people. It costs less, but it doesn't seem like this screams low quality according to all the reviews. Should I get this cheaper one and add in another $35 to get this Edsyn Soldapullt manual desolder pump (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PDOOM2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000PDOOM2&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20)? Or should I just spend the extra money for the Aoyue 2702A+ reflow station? There are less reviews for this one, but I've heard of Aoyue brand more. It also comes with a desoldering gun, which is important to me, and also a smoke absorber. Maybe I'm just being a pansy, but I'm getting tired of holding my breath when I solder haha.
Any other decent all-in-one stations I should consider? Thanks in advance.
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Screen doesn't really matter, you usually use 3 different temps, maximum, minimum and somewhere in the middle, after about a week of use you will only use the middle position apart from very specific things.
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I don't know about the quality aspect (altough Aoyue is very decent) but I plan to buy a 2702A soon because it has the extra desoldering tool, especially good for PTH. I have a 968 and the smoke absorber is very good, I can't live without it anymore, that's a 2702A high point.
I was thinking about getting all tools separately but changed my mind because of the space it would take.
Edit: X-Tronic has some extra soldering tips, that's good, they are 900 series tips, so if you have an older station you can use the old tips. Aoyue used different tips and they seem expensive.
There's an unboxing video here: Unboxing Soldering Station Aoyue 2702A+ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9CluD8oQs0#ws)
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I've got the Aoyue 2702A+, and it's quite good. Really, I have no complaints. I'll admit that it the feel, fit and finish are not super, but acceptable for an instrument of that price range. I certainly works very well, and I haven't had any frustrations with it. It also comes with a bunch of spare parts, which I like.
- PbFoot
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I've got the X-TRONIC 6040, which has the hot air blower mounted in the wand, similar to the one Dave reviewed a while back. The quality seems pretty decent, but I haven't looked inside--I just use the thing. The temperature control seems quite stable, although I've never measured to see how accurate it is. Mine also came with a florescent magnifying lamp, which is cheesy, but functional. The main problem with the lamp is that the base doesn't have enough weight and it'll tip over if you extend the head too far. On the plus side, the magnifier glass works well and there's a little high-power bubble that works almost like a loupe.
I've been very pleased with it and have been using it successfully on 0603 and 0.5mm pitch LQFPs.
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I've got the Aoyue 2702A+, and it's quite good. Really, I have no complaints. I'll admit that it the feel, fit and finish are not super, but acceptable for an instrument of that price range. I certainly works very well, and I haven't had any frustrations with it. It also comes with a bunch of spare parts, which I like.
- PbFoot
Are you able to change tips on the fly, without having to turn it off and wait for it to cool down?
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I am not sure about changing the tips on the fly. I haven't tried it. The iron is a knock-off of HAKKO, so it has a similar design and uses the same tips. I would guess if the HAKKO product could do it, this could to.
-PbFoot
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I am not sure about changing the tips on the fly. I haven't tried it. The iron is a knock-off of HAKKO, so it has a similar design and uses the same tips. I would guess if the HAKKO product could do it, this could to.
-PbFoot
Those tips are long and they seem to have a "clipping" base, I wonder if you can pull, unlock and replace them while still using the unit. Mine uses a 900M series tip so I need to unscrew the tip protection, which gets very hot, so no way I can replace the tip on the fly. I'm asking because of this Pace video, I've found very interesting the way he changes tips: Everything you wanted to know about soldering and desoldering but were afraid to ask (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0wI-5YZQm4#noexternalembed)
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm heavily leaning towards the Aoyue 2702A+ right now for the desoldering gun and smoke absorber. Are there any other all-in-one stations that include hot air, soldering irong, and desoldering iron for a tad less?
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Not that I know. I have an YaXun 968 that does not have the desoldering gun but it has everything else and is pretty accurate (except that is starts at 200ºC, but it's accurate anyway). I've seen an Aoyue that had an embedded variable power supply but I had no interest because I already have 2 good variable bench PSU.
Edit: I'm talking about this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AOYUE-909-Hot-Air-Soldering-Station-Power-Supply-110V-/140692622412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c1ef0c4c (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AOYUE-909-Hot-Air-Soldering-Station-Power-Supply-110V-/140692622412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c1ef0c4c)
No smoke absorber though.
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Why can't you change tips on the fly? As far as I'm aware the mechanism used by Hakko and the knock-offs is the same as Weller uses on their old Temtronic and similar stations. You just unscrew the thing using a pair of pliers, pull the hot tip out and stick the new one in and then screw the fixture back on. I do this frequently and have never had a real problem with it. Just don't forget not to touch it with your bare fingers ;).
A system like the one shown in the Pace video is more comfortable, though.
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I am not sure about changing the tips on the fly. I haven't tried it. The iron is a knock-off of HAKKO, so it has a similar design and uses the same tips. I would guess if the HAKKO product could do it, this could to.
-PbFoot
Those tips are long and they seem to have a "clipping" base, I wonder if you can pull, unlock and replace them while still using the unit. Mine uses a 900M series tip so I need to unscrew the tip protection, which gets very hot, so no way I can replace the tip on the fly. I'm asking because of this Pace video, I've found very interesting the way he changes tips: Everything you wanted to know about soldering and desoldering but were afraid to ask (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0wI-5YZQm4#noexternalembed)
Pace rules,I have one of their desoldering stations and it can certainly change tips on the fly,Very expensive but well worth the extra $$ after using one of those aoyue vacuum desoldering guns.It is like comparing a 286 to a pentium4.
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So tips from Hakko, Weller, and Aoyue are all compatible/interchangeable?
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You just unscrew the thing using a pair of pliers, pull the hot tip out and stick the new one in and then screw the fixture back on. I do this frequently and have never had a real problem with it. Just don't forget not to touch it with your bare fingers ;).
A system like the one shown in the Pace video is more comfortable, though.
Doesn't that brake the heating element?
I tried that when I bought it but I have to screw it tight so it won't get loose while I'm soldering, so when I try to unscrew it with pliers it slips. I actually have done it sometimes but I change tips all the time, it is time consuming and the chance of getting a burn is high. I ended up using 2 stations. I'm looking for something more dynamic.
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So tips from Hakko, Weller, and Aoyue are all compatible/interchangeable?
Only the same series, 900M is used in 968, 936, etc... That Aoyue 2702 is different, I guess they are like FX-888's:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/hakko-fx-888-compatible-with-900m-tips/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/hakko-fx-888-compatible-with-900m-tips/)
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According to Hakko website, T18 and 900M tips are the same?
https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.html (https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.html)
What's that long tip shown on the unboxing video?
Edit: Tip appears at 07:04 (it's very different from the 900M series).
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Thanks for your responses, ablacon64, you been of great help. After looking more at tip compatibility, it looks like the T18 tips (used in hakko FX-888) are compatible with the older 900M tips (used in 968, 936) according to this Hakko replacement tip (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B5YCUI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000B5YCUI&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20) as an example (in the description). That long rod you see in the unboxing youtube video you link at 07:04 is the LF series tip for the Aoyue 2702, so it looks like they're not compatible. These longer tips costs about 5x as much, and the Aoyue 2702A+ station doesn't even include additional tip, so that is a huge negative point for me.
Since you guys were talking about on-the-fly tip switching, my Weller WLC-100 uses tips similar to the T18/900M series. You can change out the tip really fast like that video you linked, all you do is turn the small screw a few times to loosen it, and tip comes right off. Doesn't affect the heating element.
The base part of the tip that goes inside the soldering iron from my Weller WLC-100 is about 6.25mm in diameter. Can someone measure the base diameter of their T18 or 900M series tip to see if it's also around 6.25mm?
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Weller tips are not compatible with anything else I've seen so far.
A hint for European Hakko users: Conrad Electronic sells Hakko 900M series tips for their own brand (Toolcraft) soldering stations.
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I'm now having second thoughts about the 2702A+ because of the non-standard tip. It uses long tips that are specialized for lead-free solder, which are $15 a pop. This station only includes 1 conical tip, and I'll need to buy a few more and cost can add up. I'm now considering the Aoyue 968A+ because it's essentially the same as the 2702A+, except with no desoldering iron. However, it uses 900M tips, and also includes like 10 different additional tips. Also, on the 2702A+, the desoldering gun and soldering iron both uses the same power connector, and the smoke absorber and tubes of desoldering gun uses the same vacuum pump port. So what I'm thinking is to just buy a Aoyue desoldering gun and just plugging it in the 968A+. It'll still come out cheaper than the whole 2702A+ package and you still get more tips that are more versatile.
Can anyone confirm compatibility of the Aoyue desoldering gun with the 968A+? I'm just afraid the power connection won't be an exact fit, or that the pump is not strong enough for desoldering suction.
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I'm now having second thoughts about the 2702A+ because of the non-standard tip. It uses long tips that are specialized for lead-free solder, which are $15 a pop.
Those tips include the heating element and thermal sensor, which is why they're more expensive. And it works with leaded solder (just tin the tip really well first <called rinsing). Whether this is an acceptable compromise for you (better tip temp control & convenience vs. lower cost)
BTW, other brands such as JBC, Metcal, Hakko, and Weller make all-in-one type tips as well for some of their products.
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I'm now having second thoughts about the 2702A+ because of the non-standard tip. It uses long tips that are specialized for lead-free solder, which are $15 a pop. This station only includes 1 conical tip, and I'll need to buy a few more and cost can add up. I'm now considering the Aoyue 968A+ because it's essentially the same as the 2702A+, except with no desoldering iron. However, it uses 900M tips, and also includes like 10 different additional tips. Also, on the 2702A+, the desoldering gun and soldering iron both uses the same power connector, and the smoke absorber and tubes of desoldering gun uses the same vacuum pump port. So what I'm thinking is to just buy a Aoyue desoldering gun and just plugging it in the 968A+. It'll still come out cheaper than the whole 2702A+ package and you still get more tips that are more versatile.
Can anyone confirm compatibility of the Aoyue desoldering gun with the 968A+? I'm just afraid the power connection won't be an exact fit, or that the pump is not strong enough for desoldering suction.
I dont know for sure but i doubt the vacuum pump on the 968A+ would be strong enough to support a vacuum desoldering gun,Personally if i were you and having the hindsight of knowing just how finicky the vacuum desolder guns can be I would buy a decent soldering station set-up and then buy a vaccum desoldering gun station seperate that way if you have any problems with the desoldering station you will still have use of your soldering iron whilst the other is in for repair,also be prepared with the vacumm desoldrer that if you buy a cheap one you will be forever cleaning blockages out of the nossle and have some lithium grease on hand as after a while the cheapies will have to be coated in it to keep an airtight seal.
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I PM'ed pbfoot about his 2702A+, so in case anyone cares I'll post the info he gave:
Hi,
You are right, they both use the same port. The suction level is user adjustable in both modes, so you set it the way you want. I've never seen a 968A+ myself, but it sounds possible. There is a little foam filter that is present at the suction port on the front panel. I don't know if that is present on the 968A+, but I think it's there to pick up any solder particles that make it past the filters in the desoldering gun. I have noticed that it collects very fine (dust like) particles of solder. Obviously, you would not want those to get into the suction pump, so having that filter there is important. I will take some close up shots and post them up later this evening.
-PbFoot
Hi PbFoot,
Since you mentioned you owned a 2702A+, I'm wondering if the the desoldering gun and the smoke absorber has different level of suctions since they shared the same pump port. I was just considering buying a Aoyue desoldering gun and putting it on a 968A+, but if the smoke suction has different strength of suction than the desoldering gun, then this obviously won't work. Can you also tell me what are the 5 buttons on the right? I tried finding an online manual, but that is impossible.
Thanks in advance,
WFD
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BTW, other brands such as JBC, Metcal, Hakko, and Weller make all-in-one type tips as well for some of their products.
Would be great if you can share the model number or link to some of these other all-in-one brands. But based on my limited searches, It seems that Aoyue is the best "value" for the amount of features, without a huge compromise in quality.
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BTW, other brands such as JBC, Metcal, Hakko, and Weller make all-in-one type tips as well for some of their products.
Would be great if you can share the model number or link to some of these other all-in-one brands. But based on my limited searches, It seems that Aoyue is the best "value" for the amount of features, without a huge compromise in quality.
Weller:
WX series (http://www.all-spec.com/products/wx2021.html (http://www.all-spec.com/products/wx2021.html))
WD1/2M stations also offered an AIO tip based iron (http://www.all-spec.com/products/WMRPSET.html (http://www.all-spec.com/products/WMRPSET.html)) and tweezer (http://www.all-spec.com/products/WMRT.html (http://www.all-spec.com/products/WMRT.html)).
JBC:
All of the irons, tweezers, and desolder tools they offer (http://www.jbctools.com/ (http://www.jbctools.com/)).
Hakko:
FX-950 (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx950.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx950.html))
FX-951 (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx951.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx951.html))
FX-952 (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx952.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx952.html))
FM-203 (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm203.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm203.html))
FM-206 (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm206.html (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm206.html)), depending on tool selection by the user (3 port station that can use irons, tweezers, desolder, and hot air tools). Only things missing are a solder pot and a PCB pre-heater. :P
Unfortunately, these are more expensive than the Aoyue products, and in some cases, significantly so (FX-95x series would be the least expensive stations, particularly in the US as Hakko can be had here for much better prices according to cost based posts by non-US members).
If you're after this technology however, and can't afford say a JBC (no longer a big fan of Weller these days), but can manage the Hakko FX-951 (not sure about availability of the FX-950), it would be a better product than the Aoyue (can be had in the US for ~$250USD at amazon w/ free shipping).
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Aoyue 2702 iron is the same as the aoyue 2900, also the same tip as the FX-951. T12 tip.
These tips have alot of thermal horsepower compared to the 900M/T18 tips
Also, don't bother with a expensive Edsyn solder "vacuum", a desoldering gun from Aoyue 2702 is a good one
And lastly, quality on aoyue's are great. Even if for the extra price.
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Aoyue 2702 iron is the same as the aoyue 2900, also the same tip as the FX-951. T12 tip.
Do they still make the T12 series?
I ask, as when I checked the tip link on the FX-951, all that's being shown are all T15 series, which I presume replaced T12.
As per quality, I think I'd trust the Hakko station more than the Aoyue in regard to the electronics and small details (silicone insulation, iron stand, iron's handle doesn't get hot with an extended solder project time, and proper strain relief for the iron's connector cable). Perhaps it's just me, but I've noticed those small details make a well designed station much easier and nicer to use, and thus I appreciate them enough to pay the difference.
Granted, a $500 - 600USD station vs. less than $100 Aoyue is a much harder sell for a hobbyist, but the FX-951 might be acceptable given it's MSRP of ~$250USD for those located in the US.
Really sucks that the pricing on a particular station tends to be so much more outside of the US. :(
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Aoyue 2702 iron is the same as the aoyue 2900, also the same tip as the FX-951. T12 tip.
Do they still make the T12 series?
I ask, as when I checked the tip link on the FX-951, all that's being shown are all T15 series, which I presume replaced T12.
Based on some searches and pictures, I think the Aoyue LF (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MJAHPS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004MJAHPS&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20), Amico T12 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00857R9N6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00857R9N6&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20), and Hakko T15 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BZJ3HY/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001BZJ3HY&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20) tips are all interchangeable. The Amico T12 looks like it might have a few different rings though.
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Based on some searches and pictures, I think the Aoyue LF (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MJAHPS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004MJAHPS&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20), Amico T12 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00857R9N6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00857R9N6&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20), and Hakko T15 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BZJ3HY/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001BZJ3HY&linkCode=as2&tag=02-20-02-20) tips are all interchangeable. The Amico T12 looks like it might have a few different rings though.
I wouldn't think the Amico tip would work in a Hakko station due to the different contact count, and not sure if the Aoyue tips would fit either an Amico or Hakko station, as I can't find the number of contacts (no pics or illustrations of the handle end). :-\
Another member may be able to shed some light on this however, as it could prove useful.
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You know there is a Aoyue 2703A+ model which I think was recently released, as a upgrade from the 2702.
Seems to be a major rework of the 2702.
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Profesional-Repair-Rework-Station/dp/B007IJVVY0/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Profesional-Repair-Rework-Station/dp/B007IJVVY0/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt)
I have a 968 and it does it job.
One thing worth considering is the fume extractor on the soldering iron can get in the way. Although you can actually take the whole thing off if it is a real problem.
It is kind of nice how the pump (noisy though it is) does both the fume extractor and the hot air rework.
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You know there is a Aoyue 2703A+ model which I think was recently released, as a upgrade from the 2702.
Seems to be a major rework of the 2702.
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Profesional-Repair-Rework-Station/dp/B007IJVVY0/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Profesional-Repair-Rework-Station/dp/B007IJVVY0/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt)
Yeah, I saw the 2703A+ model, and the only real significant difference to the 2702A+ is that it can support using the soldeing iron simultaneously withe the desoldeing gun. That doesn't justify a $80 price difference to me.
I have a 968 and it does it job.
Since a desoldering gun from a 2702A+ uses the same pump port has the soldering iron's smoke extractor, do you think we can just buy a desoldering gun and plug it into the vacuum port of the 968?
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Since a desoldering gun from a 2702A+ uses the same pump port has the soldering iron's smoke extractor, do you think we can just buy a desoldering gun and plug it into the vacuum port of the 968?
Interesting idea, it may work. I have a 968 too (very good equipment).
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Personally I don't think I would bother changing the air around, it will probably cause the hoses and stuff to fail earlier than they would otherwise.
I actually did want the 2703 but the 230v version wasn't released yet. In the end I got so confused I just bought the 968.
ps. my 968 came with a big dent in the top cover near the handle.
The Aoyue did actually survive this EMS impromptu drop test so I was quite pleased. That is all except for one air pipe connector which the seller replaced.
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Personally I don't think I would bother changing the air around, it will probably cause the hoses and stuff to fail earlier than they would otherwise.
Well it's not really changing any air around. In the 2702A+, the soldering iron + smoke absorber uses the same exact connections as the desoldering gun + suction tube. The power connectors are exactly the same, and the vacuum pump port are the same.
So carrying this idea to the 968, I don't see how you can't plug in a replacement desoldering gun from a 2702A+ into a 968. Only problem might be that the power connections has slightly different pin patterns so it can't be plugged in. I'm trying to verify this from online pics, but can't find a clear enough picture. If anyone can take a pic of the power port of the soldering iron and station from your 2702 or 968, that would be greatly appreciated.
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Sorry about the quality.
Hope this helps.
Well I was thinking that if you have to screw and unscrew everytime you want to use the desoldering gun then the wear and tear on the plastic might be an issue.
Maybe it will be fine.
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This picture is from my Yaxun 968, looks exactly the same equipment.
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/821/yaxun968connector.png) (http://imageshack.us/a/img821/3206/yaxun968connector.png)
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I got the 2702 model. It's very good for the price. I have owned it for 4 years and used it hundreds of hours. I bought 6 pieces total and none of the other owners have complained about it.
The long tips are for lead-free solder. They last very long with normal leaded solder. You can also hot swap the tips (still needs reset or turn of while swapping). The tips also heat up very fast. The handle is better with this model. Your grip point is closer to the tip than with the short tip handles.
I used to own an older AOYUE model with short tips. I hated the nut connection. It also got some connection faults some times.
The hot air also works well. I like to solder SMD components with solder paste and hot air.
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Truth to be told i am soon no longer using my 936 clones, one of them is faster than the other but oddly the spacer leaves a space in the tip.
NO GOOD. It's a decently slapped-on clone that seems to perform better than the original but yeah, i don't like nut connection no more
Who says clones can't be better than the real thing?