Author Topic: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?  (Read 41176 times)

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Offline mtdoc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2018, 03:24:16 am »
I should like to point out that the Analog Discovery is *very*  fragile.  It's far too easy to let the magic smoke out.  You're limited to 25 V on the analog channels and 3.3 V on the digital channels.  I'd be rather nervous connecting one to an Arduino without level shifters from 5 to 3.3 V.  I should not want to find out what happens without the level shifters.

??   Not true.  The Analog Discovery digital inputs handle 5V just fine and according to the reference manual they can tolerate up to +/- 20V.  The scope can handle up to 50V  or +/-25V.

Of course it is more fragile than a stand alone MSO, but it can do more within its frequency and voltage limitations. It’s really an ideal tool for Arduino or almost any breadboard range voltage or frequency projects.
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #101 on: July 24, 2018, 03:42:59 am »
I should like to point out that the Analog Discovery is *very*  fragile.  It's far too easy to let the magic smoke out.  You're limited to 25 V on the analog channels and 3.3 V on the digital channels.  I'd be rather nervous connecting one to an Arduino without level shifters from 5 to 3.3 V.  I should not want to find out what happens without the level shifters.

An MSO such as my Instek MSO-2204EA is 300 V on the analog channels and 40 V on the digital channels.  Those ratings seem to be the norm for Rigol, Siglent etc.
Digilent lists the AD2 With a 16-channel digital logic analyzer (3.3V CMOS and 1.8V or 5V tolerant).
I have used my AD2 with 5 volt logic circuits with no problems at all.
The Analog Discovery really is the Swiss Army Knife of hobby or educational test & measurement equipment. When I eventually get a stand alone DSO and AWG I expect to keep the AD for its excellent logic, Spektrum, network and impedance analyzer capabilities.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #102 on: July 24, 2018, 04:03:02 am »
The Analog Discovery really is the Swiss Army Knife of hobby or educational test & measurement equipment. When I eventually get a stand alone DSO and AWG I expect to keep the AD for its excellent logic, Spektrum, network and impedance analyzer capabilities.

Yes, it really is. I have a proper MSO (an RTB2004) on my lab bench,but I still use my AD all the time at my desk for quick breadboard or Arduino or TI launchpad projects. It also is an essential part of my travel kit.
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2018, 04:29:05 am »
Yes, it really is. I have a proper MSO (an RTB2004) on my lab bench,but I still use my AD all the time at my desk for quick breadboard or Arduino or TI launchpad projects. It also is an essential part of my travel kit.

What's your usual travel kit, out of curiosity?
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #104 on: July 24, 2018, 05:48:55 am »
Yes, it really is. I have a proper MSO (an RTB2004) on my lab bench,but I still use my AD all the time at my desk for quick breadboard or Arduino or TI launchpad projects. It also is an essential part of my travel kit.

What's your usual travel kit, out of curiosity?

Funny you should ask..

I put it together for that trip and used it a few times -though not as much as I’d liked to have.  I’m taking it with me tomorrow as I’m working a 24 hour shift and I hope to have some down time.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 05:52:39 am by mtdoc »
 

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #105 on: July 24, 2018, 01:07:23 pm »
Hi and welcome to the hobby.  Best advice I can give is try and resist being sucked into buying a load of stuff on a whim.  Asking a general question like this will get you 100 different answers from a 100 different people who have 100 different opinions on what is best for you.  Only you know what interests you and there are plenty of things you can do and learn with a breadboard, a cheap DMM and a handful of parts.  Keep the $$ in your pocket and a few months down the line, if you get really hooked you will know yourself what sort of things you need.  As you are in the US, chances are there is a hacker/maker space or club you can go along to and get involved with some stuff there.
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #106 on: July 24, 2018, 02:30:23 pm »
Hi and welcome to the hobby.  Best advice I can give is try and resist being sucked into buying a load of stuff on a whim.  Asking a general question like this will get you 100 different answers from a 100 different people who have 100 different opinions on what is best for you.  Only you know what interests you and there are plenty of things you can do and learn with a breadboard, a cheap DMM and a handful of parts.  Keep the $$ in your pocket and a few months down the line, if you get really hooked you will know yourself what sort of things you need.  As you are in the US, chances are there is a hacker/maker space or club you can go along to and get involved with some stuff there.

Thanks -- I understand and appreciate the concern, however I do try to do some background research on everything being recommended in this thread to get a good sense of what might work for me.

At any rate I already pulled the trigger on the purchase of a bunch of equipment so that part is done -- at this point looking into parts and components (leds, resistors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, leads/cables/wires, etc).

So far I'm looking at:

Resistors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112341051881 (4 of these)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/261374861457 (1 of these)

Ceramic Capacitors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122542633519 (1 of these)

Electrolytic Capacitors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152015420230 (1 of these)

Diodes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273315944592 (1 of these)

LEDs:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/391368927437 (1 of these)

(I'm assuming these are a sufficient amount spanning the usual ranges of values), trying to use some past posts on this forum as reference, but still tricky. 

Other components, still looking.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 02:36:18 pm by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #107 on: July 24, 2018, 02:43:40 pm »
they are all doing just fine; don't forget a set of foil capacitors and some small signal transistors
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #108 on: July 24, 2018, 02:57:41 pm »
they are all doing just fine; don't forget a set of foil capacitors and some small signal transistors

When I search for "foil capacitors" I unfortunately don't see many kits of these.

Also should I be doubling/tripling-up on any of those kits other than resistors?

How about these for transistors (24 types, 35 of each): https://www.ebay.com/itm/840pcs-Transistor-TO-92-Assortment-24-value-NPN-PNP-DIY-kit-2N2222-S9018-BC32/332682436699

Edit: Or this one, 15 types, 40 each: https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-value-600pcs-Transistor-TO-92-Assortment-NPN-PNP-DIY-kit/222509491667
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 03:04:16 pm by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #109 on: July 24, 2018, 03:05:08 pm »
the cheapest are polyester: https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/180-st-cke-LOT-18value-10-st-cke-Polyester-film-kondensator-Assorted-Kit-enth-lt-2A104J/1815642_32857807794.html?spm=a2g0x.12010108.1000016.1.69a7706da6eAYo&isOrigTitle=true

they are fairly ok for most proposes, but for example not considered audiophile

then there are polypropylen, CBB and other kinds.

polyester are doing fine in most cases
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #110 on: July 24, 2018, 06:35:39 pm »
I am in South Florida and I used this company for a lot of basic components when building my inventory. They are geared toward the hobbyist. They run an email only sale every Thursday and rotate through their inventory putting things on sale from 20-60% off. I just look every week and when they have interesting stuff on sale I order. They also usually have a 6.95 flat rate shipping offer. Worth a look.
http://www.mpja.com
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #111 on: July 25, 2018, 07:08:11 am »
Also should I be doubling/tripling-up on any of those kits other than resistors?

Probably not necessary. There will be values that you rarely, if ever, use. So, the kit is good in order to have a little of everything on hand. See what your usage is like and then buy larger quantities of the ones you use often. Some vendors, such as Mouser and Digi-Key, give price breaks at certain quantities (often starting as low as 10 of an item).

I am in South Florida and I used this company for a lot of basic components when building my inventory. They are geared toward the hobbyist. They run an email only sale every Thursday and rotate through their inventory putting things on sale from 20-60% off. I just look every week and when they have interesting stuff on sale I order. They also usually have a 6.95 flat rate shipping offer. Worth a look.
http://www.mpja.com

Neat site. Thanks (although my wallet will likely not share that sentiment). ;D
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Offline ez24

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« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 07:51:29 pm by ez24 »
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2018, 06:27:23 pm »
How about magnifiers? Do people really find jeweler loupes useful? I always got the impression that the magnification wasn't that great -- do people often prefer the head-mounted magnifiers? (I wear glasses FWIW)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 06:29:05 pm by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline ez24

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #114 on: July 29, 2018, 07:55:09 pm »
How about magnifiers? Do people really find jeweler loupes useful? I always got the impression that the magnification wasn't that great -- do people often prefer the head-mounted magnifiers? (I wear glasses FWIW)

There has been a lot of talk here about this and I have tried several types.  I keep going back to my reading glasses +4 to +8  (I also wear glasses)
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Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #115 on: July 29, 2018, 08:15:45 pm »
I use the OptoVisor for most simple things but this visor is a LOT cheaper and more featured:

https://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multi-Power-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA

I bought it a year or so back and I really like the lighting.  It tilts and swivels to put the light right where you want it.  Highly recommended.

I don't like the loupe, I lose stereoscopic vision and it just seems awkward.

I think there is a discussion on microscopes over in Test Equipment (?) and I think the conversation gravitated toward:

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=amscope+se400-z

I don't have one...
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #116 on: July 29, 2018, 08:27:42 pm »
I use the OptoVisor for most simple things but this visor is a LOT cheaper and more featured:

https://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multi-Power-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA

Which Optivisor model do you use? (there are apparently a variety of focal lengths / multipliers)

DA-4 seems popular from what I am seeing (2x mag at 10" focal dist)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 08:33:07 pm by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #117 on: July 29, 2018, 09:34:01 pm »
I use the OptoVisor for most simple things but this visor is a LOT cheaper and more featured:

Which Optivisor model do you use? (there are apparently a variety of focal lengths / multipliers)

DA-4 seems popular from what I am seeing (2x mag at 10" focal dist)

That's the one I use.  I also bought a more powerful lens and it works ok but the focal length is so short that I hardly have room for a soldering iron.

The DA-4 will work for SMD but I prefer a little more magnification.  Not enough to buy a micrscope...

The one I linked has two lens assemblies of 1.9x each so nearly 4x.  One of them flips up inside the housing to get less magnification and more focal length.  I have only had it since April so I haven't played with it much but I think it will work a little better for SMD.

For $10, it's hard to go wrong.  That's about 1/4 the cost of the OptiVisor that has no features.


 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #118 on: July 29, 2018, 10:20:36 pm »
I have a dumb question that just dawned on me.

What exactly is the purpose of buying more leads if we already get some leads that come with our multimeters?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #119 on: July 29, 2018, 11:11:07 pm »
Multimeters come with probes, occasionally with some other terminations (alligator clips, etc). But the pack-ins are usually much too big for fine electronics use. Plus you need leads for other stuff, like connecting to a power supply.

I find that I use banana-to-minigrabber cables a LOT for both powering and measurement. Also, banana-to-header ("dupont") cables I make, both male and female, for probing and powering breadboard projects and projects on PCBs. Both of these types of cables are good for powering and for monitoring a value over time, whereas probes are good for when you need to take lots of measurements of different spots in a circuit. And you can often combine both, for example a banana-to-minigrabber for connecting the negative to ground, and a probe for the positive for measuring all over. Keeps a hand free.

Banana-to-banana are also essential.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #120 on: July 29, 2018, 11:40:28 pm »
I use both genders of BNC <-> Banana adapters.

Most meters come with cheap cables and probes.  It's the cable that is a PITA.  It isn't flexible enough and ultimately applies a force to the circuit end of the connection.

http://probemaster.com/
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2018, 11:54:07 pm »
I have a dumb question that just dawned on me.

What exactly is the purpose of buying more leads if we already get some leads that come with our multimeters?

Cheap meters, like the 2 Aneng that sit in my company van, work better with a set of better leads.  I replaced the leads with a set of Brymen leads that I bought off of Frankie's site-- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Silicone-Gold-Plated-Test-Leads-Probes-for-Multimeters-CAT-IV-1000V-/171162377470  Some like the Probemaster leads-- http://probemaster.com/8000-series-test-leads-only/

Also none of the used meters I bought came with leads.  I have purchased a total of 6 sets of leads from Frankie and am very happy with them. 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #122 on: July 30, 2018, 12:00:04 am »
I guess I am just trying to understand the types of scenarios where I'd need to use a different type of lead. For example I can't even tell when I'd need BNC or spade or minigrabber or alligator, etc. I think the Rigol oscilloscope is BNC? Power supplies often banana plug? So for example I'd do banana plug -> alligator clip from the power supply and then clamp these onto the end of a male dupont wire and then stick the other end into a breadboard or something?

Like I am really lost as to how I'm supposed to be using everything.

And how do I know which ones are worth picking up exactly? I know a few were linked earlier but they either had 0 reviews or were totally out of stock or super expensive.

Banana plus to banana plug: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=banana+plug+to+banana+plug

Minigrabber to banana plug: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=minigrabber+to+banana+plug

Alligator clip to alligator clip (I know, I know): https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=alligator+clip+to+alligator+clip

Minigrabber to minigrabber: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=minigrabber+to+minigrabber

« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 12:24:04 am by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #123 on: July 30, 2018, 12:16:41 am »

Banana plug to banana plug: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=banana+plug+to+banana+plug


Probably not useful unless you are working with analog computers where the equations are patched using banana jumpers.  You might need 1 to jumper the two outputs of a PS to add the outputs in series.  It would need to be a stackable type.  Usually this is done with a wire jumper on the binding post leaving the banana jacks accessible for test leads.

If the leads from your PS are stackable, you could always use these to tie in a DMM.  Not necessary but workable.  I'm not sure how this would apply to a real lab supply which already has instrumentation.  But maybe...

Quote

Minigrabber to banana plug: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=minigrabber+to+banana+plug


This might be useful with a DMM instead of the more appropriate shielded type banana plug.  They could also be handy as PS leads.  They're stackable so that handy.

Quote
Alligator clip to alligator clip: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=alligator+clip+to+alligator+clip


I would prefer the minigrabber and, FWIW, nearly ALL of these are junk.  They aren't even soldered.

Quote

Minigrabber to minigrabber: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=minigrabber+to+minigrabber

Always useful for jumping things together.  I prefer them to alligator clips.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #124 on: July 30, 2018, 12:23:40 am »
I build my own banana-to-dupont cables, it's far more convenient and reliable than alligator clips to dupont jumper wires. I've done that in the past, and it's hella ghetto, you end up with stuff coming loose, or shorting out… it's OK in a pinch but you'll be happier with properly made cables. Making test leads is a great way to practice your cable termination/splicing/dressing, by the way.

Forget alligator clips, everyone here is telling you "I have 'em and practically never use 'em". Go minigrabber instead.

I couldn't even tell you when I last used spades on test leads.

Forget the no-name ones on amazon. Go with top quality name brand (Fluke/Pomona, Mueller, Probe Master, Cal Test, Stäubli, Hirschmann). There's another thread on here from someone asking about this, because it turns out the cheap banana plugs on his Amazon-sourced no-names are wiggly and caused problems.


BNC is for high-frequency (but low current!) stuff, which is why your oscilloscope will use it (as do signal generators and the like). For now, don't buy any extra BNC stuff, the probes with the scope are more than enough to get started.

Lab power supplies use one of two things, generally: safety banana jacks (accept sheathed or unsheathed banana plugs), or banana jack binding posts (accept unsheathed banana plugs, large spades, and bare wire, but not sheathed banana plugs).


But ultimately don't sweat this too much. Start with the basics (banana-banana, banana-minigrabber,  and minigrabber-minigrabber; I suggest 18"-24"), and buy yourself some flexible wire and some quality banana plugs (any of the brands I listed above is great) and make additional cables as you discover the need for them. I highly recommend the Pomona 1825 banana plugs, because they're solderless with a set screw that requires no disassembly, so you can easily and quickly build a custom cable with them for a specific purpose, and later reuse the plugs for some other cable as your needs change. (Many other plugs hide the set screw under a sheath that you have to wrestle off first.)
 
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