Author Topic: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?  (Read 41161 times)

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Offline nanofrog

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #175 on: August 02, 2018, 10:17:21 pm »
Anyone used the 8174- SMD Gripper set from Probemaster?

I like the look of the stuff from Cal Test, but they're definitely a bit on the pricey side (~$125 - $237 on DigiKey).
 

Offline atmfjstc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #176 on: August 03, 2018, 07:31:37 pm »
I'd like to reinforce what some of the others here have said and, with all due respect, warn the OP against spending a lot of money in the beginning on all sorts of tools and components, all at once. I'm relatively (2-3 years) new to electronics myself, and my experience has been that there is no way to correctly predict what the perfect set of tools for your job will be. You shouldn't be afraid of starting small, with a limited set of cheap tools, strictly what you need for your initial simple projects. As you use those tools more and more, and you take on new projects, you will start to intimately understand what their limitations are, which tools you are missing, and which tools you don't really need. This will help you know what to upgrade and when. Don't worry about "paying more in the long run" if you upgrade tools along the way. You'll spend waaay more than $1000 on this hobby, and high-end tools have such extortionist prices that your initial tools are little more than a rounding error by comparison :)

Same goes for components. The tools and components you keep in stock should be a function of your project. Building robots, reverse engineering, repairing appliances, radio/RF work, power electronics, teardowns, all these require different sets of tools and components, and if you're just starting off, it'll take a while till you find a focus (which may also change later in life).

One final thing, expect some mechanical work to go with the purely electronic side of things. If you're building anything that moves or needs to be mounted in an enclosure, you'll eventually need to have tools for cutting, punching holes in things, and keeping things together (screws, glue etc.).
 
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Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #177 on: August 04, 2018, 01:06:16 am »
Buy to needs!  There are things on this list that I don't have yet and I've been playing with this stuff since I was a kid - say 60+ years.  I have some stuff and the majority of it was bought in the last year or so.  And then only because I could, not because I needed anything.  But my projects have always been digital.  When I moved to analog, I needed a +- 15V supply so I bought the DP832 and I bought the DS1054Z because it would do decoding (digital).  The Siglent AWG was an extravagance.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #178 on: August 04, 2018, 01:47:55 am »
I'd like to reinforce what some of the others here have said and, with all due respect, warn the OP against spending a lot of money in the beginning on all sorts of tools and components, all at once.


I believe the OP has already bought most stuff, especially high ticket items ?
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #179 on: August 04, 2018, 04:16:23 am »
So, AnyNameWillDo, now that you're all decked out with gear and parts, what's your first project?
TEA is the way. | TEA Time channel
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #180 on: August 04, 2018, 06:41:35 am »
Not everything has arrived just yet, since I ordered some of the components/gear through AliExpress -- and in hindsight I should have just stuck to Amazon/Ebay/etc. These long shipping times are b-r-u-t-a-l and I'm far too impatient, lol.

As for projects, I'm planning to work through a few project-oriented books first to flesh out the theory and fundamentals. A few of my project ideas are probably too ambitious / out of my reach at the moment so I need to work my way up there.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 06:45:24 am by AnyNameWillDo »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #181 on: August 04, 2018, 04:53:46 pm »
Sounds like a good start. Have fun!
TEA is the way. | TEA Time channel
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #182 on: August 04, 2018, 05:09:56 pm »
Thoughts on a good screwdriver set?

I do own a small kit of precision screwdrivers but they're skinny, all-metal, hard to get a good grip on, and hard to get sufficient torque on. They were super cheap but I'd like to toss em out.

I see Wiha mentioned a lot in older threads, are they still up there? Is there a kit you might recommend or will any of them be reasonable picks?
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #183 on: August 04, 2018, 06:06:44 pm »
Thoughts on a good screwdriver set?

I do own a small kit of precision screwdrivers but they're skinny, all-metal, hard to get a good grip on, and hard to get sufficient torque on. They were super cheap but I'd like to toss em out.

I see Wiha mentioned a lot in older threads, are they still up there? Is there a kit you might recommend or will any of them be reasonable picks?
Absolutely, and they offer more tip shapes/profiles than any other manufacturer.  :-+ I'd recommend sticking with the classic handles (26190 would be a good starter set, and it comes with a nice pair of standard sized needle nose pliers). The $33.33 (full option) gets you a single set.  ;)

Wera is right behind them (Czech made), but the grips are unique. Seems to be a love or hate reaction to them. Vessel (Japan) also makes excellent precision screwdrivers.

In terms of quality, PB Swiss is even better. But they're also the most expensive and don't have anywhere near the tip profiles & sizes Wiha has. I do have them in standard sized slotted and Phillips though.
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #184 on: August 04, 2018, 07:04:09 pm »
What are your thoughts on Wiha sets like these?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00YBYADH6

(Or is it better to go with something like you suggested that are full-on screwdrivers?)
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #185 on: August 04, 2018, 07:10:10 pm »
Check KC Tools for good prices and selection on Wera and Wiha and other quality tools. Get on their email list - They have regular sales with excellent prices -much better than Amazon.  Zoro tools also has regular coupon sales and they also stock Wera amd Wiha.
 
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Offline mzzj

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #186 on: August 04, 2018, 07:39:16 pm »
Despite cheap price these are one of my favourite screwdrivers:
http://www.longjinn.com/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=P030&Category=11

Not sure where to find in US, in here I can get the 7-pcs set for about 10usd/eur
 

Offline Anichang

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #187 on: August 04, 2018, 10:02:58 pm »
Hi, I'm a beginner same of you, so I don't have experience to share with you. But I'm writing to share my approach to the same problem: the bootstrap.

And, as a side note, I tought that this thread could be the right one for my first message on this board, to introduce myself: I soldered my first radio when I was 8yo, but I just received my first (cheap charly) oscilloscope last week. In the while I became an IT guy with 50% e-engeeneering bachelor degree. About 5 years ago I went back studying (myself alone, no uni) where I left (flip-flops, digital networks) in order to fill a gap in the market... and I'm still working on my prototype. The time went so long because I can't spend money on this my little spare time passion.

I took the long way to bootstrap my lab: DIY. I've built my PSU, my oscilloscope, my 3D printer, my helping hands ... mostly using stuff I dig out from my scrapyard (20 years of IT rubbish), plus some jelly bean components, some arduinos, some buck-boost converters, some radios, some sensors; all stuff I bought 2 bucks at a time. And, of course, Dave, DaveCad, youtube, github, and all the good stuff you can find online thanks to the good people that share with us their passion.
I probably ended up spending more than your budget, and the things I've built are not much more than toys but ... they worked "until the next step". Last week I was building an SWR meter and ... I couldn't make it without an oscilloscope that is a bit more than the arduino-based ones; so I decided to jump my next 3 weeks worth of beers&porn, and I bought a 200 bucks hantek; and soon or later I'll have to drop it in favor of a 1000 one.
It's the classical hands-on approach that let you grow together with your stuff.

Just to make you an example: I've seen tons of opamp primers (note: I use Dave's docs as a reference, and then iterate around it using other good authors available online), downloaded a couple of opamps books, but I couldn't really grasp the opamps until I had to make my oscillotoy. And I didn't get them yet. But focusing the messy dry theory in my head, with a real project that I had the need of ... pushed me to get those tools, the opamps, in my hands and being able to use them. I guessed. Then I discovered the inamps... and the power opamps... and... I want to use them all! I'm hungry of something to make good use of that theory. I'm really looking forward to make the next step. Opamps are just an example. I got better understanding on how to buy the stuff I need, how to make PCBs: I just attached a purple laser on my 3D printer so that I can skip the idea to turn my old tabletop scanner into a UV lamp, or tweak a laminator, or stealing my wife's iron.
And I also learned to schedule the shopping so that I can buy in advance from China and the shipping delays don't interfere with my activities; because I manage multiple projects in parallel and pay attention on the parts I can buy with my little recurring budgets.

I'm still using my 15 bucks iron ... but I bought a tons of spare tips for it. Because it will take a will until I find all the parts needed to make a proper soldering station. At the moment I've found a 1000VA transformer, I've an old mini-itx case, a couple of arduino placed in the same 'soldering station box', and the 'soldering station' folder filling with projects I've found around. Once I decide which one to follow I'll put in the project box the proper power silicon, and buy the first JBL tip.

Again: you grow together with your stuff. If you don't have a timeline to follow, it is way better than allocate resources and procure all the stuff in advance. In some cases planning doesn't help much. Try, as an example, to make a list of opamps to have in the lab: you'll go crazy. The more kinds you buy, the less proper opamps you have in your lab and have to buy more.

cheers
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #188 on: August 04, 2018, 11:46:11 pm »
What do you all do for lighting?
 

Offline rdl

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Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #190 on: August 05, 2018, 12:11:10 am »
My general room lighting is a single 60W bulb in a ceiling fan.  There is nowhere near enough light to do anything.  So I use task lights.  Several...  Looking around, I count 5.  This is actually an acceptable way to work.  When I'm messing around on the Internet, I don't really need a lot of light.  When I am soldering SMD, I need a bunch and general lighting would have to be insanely bright to cover the room at that level.  And it isn't necessary.

Task lighting, that's the answer.

I would prefer to replace the ceiling fan with a 4 lamp fluorescent fixture but I have been feeling lazy.  Maybe one day...
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #191 on: August 05, 2018, 12:30:38 am »
Should screwdrivers be ESD safe?
 

Offline rdl

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #192 on: August 05, 2018, 12:35:08 am »
That Commercial Electric fixture I linked to at Home Depot is almost the same lumens as three 100 watt equivalent Cree LED bulbs. I have three of them hanging from the ceiling in my bedroom over the area where I work. I almost need sunglasses. I don't always turn them on, particularly later at night, because I also have a standard clamp on task light with an LED spotlight bulb in it that's sometimes all I need.

Here's a (very underexposed) photo from before I added the third ceiling fixture.

 
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #193 on: August 05, 2018, 04:17:28 am »
What are your thoughts on Wiha sets like these?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00YBYADH6

(Or is it better to go with something like you suggested that are full-on screwdrivers?)
I find bit sets to be too short or too fat (bit holding end) to get into recessed screw holes.

To do this properly IME, you need to look at the following:
  • Individual drivers (dedicated lengths to reach deep screws). Such as the set I previously linked.
  • Standard 4mm blade systems (you can set the depth on these, just be mindful they like to slip back into the handle). Example.
  • Wiha's Drive-Loc in either System 6 or System 4. These are a variant of blade systems that have dimples in the blades that prevent them from shifting from their set positions. Allows the user to set the depth without it changing, and are suitable for reaching deep set screws. FWIW, this makes up the bulk of my Wiha collection to date.
In my case, I've the Drive-Loc System 4 set linked, as well as a significant number of Drive-Loc System 6 blades (started with the Security Torx, and added every single security bit available*).

* I've used every one of them on more than one occasion.  ;)
 
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #194 on: August 05, 2018, 07:07:53 am »
There’s lots of good options for small precision drivers. I’ve got a big Wiha set but honestly some of the cheaper brands work just fine for most hobby work.

But with the bigger drivers, it really does pay to spend the money for quality. My absolute favorite is my Wera Kompakt 60 set with the ratcheting handle..
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #195 on: August 05, 2018, 12:24:48 pm »
Should screwdrivers be ESD safe?
I’ve been little by little switching to ESD safe tools, simply because the difference in cost is so trivial.

As for brands: I like PB Swiss a lot, but of course, here in Switzerland they’re omnipresent and not crazy expensive. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Wiha. I don’t like the Wera grips (as someone else said, you either love them or hate them.) But I’ll be honest: my first set of precision screwdrivers was Craftsman from Sears, and I really like them. But I’ve been living out of the States for years and haven’t been to a Sears on any recent visit, so I have no clue whether they still sell them.

Not that I ever recommend shitty screwdrivers, but really avoid them for precision drivers, because a bad driver can chew up the screw head, making it difficult to extract later even with a good driver. Similarly, bad Phillips drivers do the same thing, so those are worth buying quality. (And consider later investing in PoziDriv 1 and 2 drivers, because a lot of “Phillips” screws are actually PoziDriv, and a Phillips driver in a PoziDriv screw is even more likely to chew up the screw head.)

FWIW, in the non-precision screwdrivers (precision = small + with rotating end cap thingie), I love that PB Swiss has color coded drivers, so that each type and size is a different color handle.

As for bit sets vs whole screwdrivers: I prefer whole screwdrivers. But buying a screwdriver for every single screw type you ever encounter is both costly and takes up space, so I use bits for rarely used sizes, but while screwdrivers for the ones I use all the time. For me, that’s Phillips 000-2 (precision on 000-0), PoziDriv 2, 2.0 And 2.5mm wide precision flathead, a 4mm wide flathead (not often used), precision Torx T6, T7,T8, and T9, and regular T10. (I’ve been trying to switch to more Torx so I’ll probably buy a Torx set for bigger ones sometime.) I have a decent quality Bosch set for normal bits and an eBay cheapie set of security bits.

For what it’s worth, I don’t much like bit sets for precision screws because bits always have a bit of slop (wiggle), and in precision screws, that slop can be annoyingly large compared to the screw hole itself!! There are other interchangeable systems that don’t wiggle, but swapping tips takes so long it’s annoying.

With big screws, bits work well, unless the screw hole is recessed and the bit holder won’t fit!

I’d start with top quality whole screwdrivers for the key sizes (Phillips 0-2) and go from there as needed.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 12:32:00 pm by tooki »
 
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Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #196 on: August 05, 2018, 04:35:35 pm »
tooki: Arrived at a similar conclusion... from what I read, ESD can take place very silently and invisibly, damaging and even ruining components. Maybe it's overblown, maybe it's not (many say they go years without an ESD incident just by using common sense and touching something grounded before they begin), but I figured the cost difference was small enough. I ended up getting the ESD version of the Wihas for now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AN16QI/

Also picked up a magnetizer/demagnetizer, a desk lamp / task light, a small side fan, and a silicone work mat to protect the table from heat/solder.
 
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Offline rstofer

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #197 on: August 05, 2018, 04:50:31 pm »
If you are worried about ESD, you should have an ESD mat and wrist strap.  Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Bertech-Wrist-Strap-Grounding-Cord/dp/B071YLJ487

Now that it is common to have protective diodes on chip inputs, the ESD thing is less of an issue.  I bought the mat when I assembled my new PC because I was using a high dollar Intel chip.  The mat was cheap by comparison.

Over the years, I have had no ESD issues of any kind on any chips without taking any particular precautions.  I have never destroyed a device.  But I won't risk a high dollar chip...

My Hakko soldering iron is ESD safe and that's the only tool I worry about.  I don't spend any time thinking about ESD handtools.

Yes, I think the issue is overblown and based on facts as they were in the '70s.

 
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #198 on: August 06, 2018, 10:35:44 pm »
Keep in mind even ESD compliant tools are only effective when there's a path to safety earth (i.e. operator is "strapped in").  ;)
 

Offline AnyNameWillDoTopic starter

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Re: My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
« Reply #199 on: August 06, 2018, 10:52:24 pm »
Might be a dumb question but if I am just sitting at my desk, hardwood floors, fiddling around with components on a table, how do I know if I am grounded or not? Do I need to wear a wrist-wrap connected to something else, e.g. the metal rack next to me? If the rack is just sitting on wood is it even considered grounded? Or do I have to touch something metal that's somehow connected to some other metal in the wall that eventually makes its way back to the grounding metal in the circuit breaker?
 


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