Electronics > Beginners
My purchase list for my new lab -- budget $1000+, thoughts?
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tooki:

--- Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 22, 2018, 12:51:03 am ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on July 22, 2018, 12:41:33 am ---Start simple and leave out all the high dollar stuff.  Get a couple of multimeters and all the hand tools.

--- End quote ---

But that's just the thing -- if I start with one set of gear and then upgrade things repeatedly over time, I'm spending more money in the long run, compared to if I just bought the right gear right off the bat. I'm trying to minimize overall/long-run cost, because I know once I get past these beginner hurdles this will be a hobby I'll spend a lot of time on.

--- End quote ---
It’s unavoidable, and it’s completely unrealistic (never mind maddening) to pretend otherwise. I think you’re taking “buy once” far too literally.

On the one hand, there WILL be “mistakes”, in that you’ll buy things you don’t use, or where you like another thing better. You cannot know whether you prefer a flux pen, flux brush, or paste flux until you’ve tried them all, for example. But unless you’re fortunate enough to have access to someone else’s lab that’s got every option for you to try, you’ll just have to accept some redundancy.

But also your needs will change as you progress in the field and discover which areas of electronics appeal to you more, and which less.

Think of it like this: Let’s pretend that every tool, item, etc, is priced the same: $5 for a cheapie and $50 for a quality one. You could buy the $50 version of everything, but some of those things will not get used as often as you think, so an unused/underused thing is wasting $50 a pop, which adds up to a lot of wasted money real fast. Alternatively, you could buy the $5 version of almost everything to start, and then selectively upgrade the things where the $5 version proves unsatisfactory (frustratingly low quality) or no longer meets your needs as your needs evolve. It feels smarter to me to “waste” $5 items than $50 ones.


I am finicky, in that I like the feel of good tools. I appreciate — on an ongoing basis — how a good tool feels good in the hand. Cheapness bothers me, even when it has no impact on the final outcome. But I’ve had to realize that since it’s not realistic for me to buy top-quality in EVERYTHING, that it’s better to selectively improve the things that bother me the most. Pliers was one of those things for me. Screwdrivers is another. But often, cheap tools actually do work well enough and feel good enough as to not be problematic. That frees up budget for the things where it does matter.



--- Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 22, 2018, 12:51:03 am ---It's also unclear to me what "all the hand tools" includes or what would be considered sufficient.

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I assume it means the hand tools listed in your list. As I said, your list seems fairly reasonable to me, other than that you need electronics pliers and cutters, not generic handyman pliers and cutters, which are just plain too big for most electronics use.

I will add that as you progress, and you start to want to build projects permanently, in nice housings and stuff, you’ll also need to invest in the “mechanical” side of electronics, like tools for cutting and drilling enclosures, operating fasteners, surface finishing, etc. I think those have been considered out-of-scope of this list.


--- Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 22, 2018, 12:51:03 am ---(Definitely right with the paralysis -- I went through this same analysis paralysis problem when I was building my home gym but I eventually got it settled and have been using the same equipment for years now because I bought good/quality parts and not cheap things that will need replacement, so it's a strategy that's worked for me even though it's infuriating while in the thick of it)

--- End quote ---
Electronics has orders of magnitudes more options than gym gear. It’s literally impossible to know in advance what you will need for all your future projects and tinkering. Accept that there WILL be some “waste”, and that you did your best to avoid it where possible.



As for some of your specific questions:
- Solder: nearly everyone here suggests 0.025-0.032” (that’s about 0.5-0.8mm) solder as a good everyday size. (It’s been discussed to death on other threads.) Dave suggests 0.3-0.4mm, yet in his videos it looks like he’s using thicker. But again, to an extent it’s a matter of taste, but above all it’s also about matching to the job: for ordinary through-hole soldering, .025-.032” is ideal: it needs to be thin enough to give you good feed rate control, but not so thin that it takes you excessively long to feed in enough solder. As for SMD, the techniques are so different that you’ll rarely be feeding in solder the same way. I have 5 or 6 different solders at home (ranging from .015” to .062”), but the Kester 63/37 at .031” is the one I use 95% of the time. The .015” is far too thin for everyday use, it makes most joints take too long, and it’s expensive, so twisting multiple strands to bulk up is a waste of time AND money. My old Radio Shack .062” is what I use the least. I need such thick solder so rarely that I won’t replace it when I finish it up — I’ll just twist a few strands of .031”.

- ADS200: Watch some of the videos about it. Yes, it’s a cartridge-style integrated-heater type, and basically the cheapest one yet from a quality manufacturer. It’s far too new a model to have lots of reviews yet and as you might have noticed, it’s not a brand that Amazon really sells — even their models that have been out for years have no reviews on Amazon. The reason the eevblog community is so excited about it is because Pace is essentially a super-premium brand, and this is their first product that’s not priced stratospherically. (Basically, Pace invented modern rework. Think of it like this: when NASA, the US military, or a defense contractor does soldering or solder rework, it’s going to be done using either Pace or Weller gear. But as an American manufacturer, the US military tends to give preference to Pace over the foreign brands.)

- Flush cutters: As I hoped, others chimed in with quality pliers/cutters options that are more sensibly priced in USA than Knipex.  (I don’t even have top-brand flush cutters, the $20-ish ones from the local shop work well.) As for which ones: for beginning electronics, any ordinary style will do. It’s not critical whether they’re absolute flush or have a quarter millimeter of bevel. The key is that they be electronics flush cutters, and not the big ones for electricians and metalworkers. But I do actually have one suggestion, come to think of it: they make ones that grip the component trimmings to keep them from flying across the room. I have one each with and without this feature, and I find myself using the ones with it most of the time. (Without this, you MUST learn to use proper technique to hold the leads, otherwise they do fly everywhere, and that can include your eyes.)

- AN8008 (or other Aneng model): People are suggesting them because at around $20, they’re really sweet little secondary meters. The performance is nice, they have great displays, they’re tiny (so don’t take up tons of space, and easy to take along somewhere) and feel good in the hand. They aren’t up to snuff for mains use, but that’s totally OK for electronics. Most $20 meters feel like crap, and this one doesn’t. (The $1 or free Harbor Freight meters will also do the job as far as basic measurements, but man do they feel junky. I suspect you’re like me and will find them emotionally unpleasant to use, even if they do the job just fine.)

- The 121GW has more features than the BM235. But either of those is an absolutely respectable primary meter.
HB9EVI:
Well, if you decide to work for the first to work on low power low voltage circuits, I wouldn't spend too much for a meter. As you go on working on your projects, you'll realize, that all those handheld meters just suck working on the bench only; there is the issue working with device running on batteries. Personally I hate meters, which turn off after some time, and I hate devices, where the battery runs empty whenever I need it.

Imo if you're seriously into electronics, you want to change one day to a benchtop meter with mains supply - so the handheld will get automatically second choice only
tooki:

--- Quote from: HB9EVI on July 22, 2018, 11:16:43 am ---Imo if you're seriously into electronics, you want to change one day to a benchtop meter with mains supply - so the handheld will get automatically second choice only

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This has been the case for me. The responsiveness and VFD screen of my Keithley 2015 has made it my go-to meter. The handhelds (an 87V, a U1252B, an AN8008, and some cheapies) and the Keithley 197 get used when I need additional measurements (or ones outside the K2015’s ranges/functions).
rhb:

--- Quote from: bitseeker on July 22, 2018, 07:18:27 am ---Important: The cheap meters generally don't have much, if any, input protection. So, if you get them, only use them on low-voltage, low-energy circuits. You'll see people say or video themselves sticking these meters in the wall outlet and go, "see, nothing wrong." Yes, indeed, they will work. But, input protection (like a warranty, an insurance policy, or a legal contract) is for the abnormal and unexpected, not the normal case.

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The main input to the HF DMM *is* fused.  In looking at one, I rather suspect that the big loop of wire on the 10A input *is* a fuse.  Just not a replaceable fuse.  The meter is marked CAT II.  HF is not a small eBay seller.  I very much doubt that they would sell an inherently unsafe meter.

A very large fraction of my uses of the HF meters of which I have many scattered in various places is checking for line voltage levels.  I'd probably use a better meter if I were planning to probe a 440 V line, but I don't have any need to do that. And wouldn't be particularly concerned if all I had with me was an HF DMM.   I was using one of the HF DMMs when I discovered that some 120 V outlets that were miswired in a building with 3 phase were actually at 200 V.  Unfortunately, *after* it spun my 1/2" HF drill so fast that the fan came apart and punched part way through the side of the drill.  I use a clamp on if I need to measure large currents.  You don't need a 34401A, of which I have two, to check a battery. So the battery drawer in the kitchen has an HF meter in it.  Nor do I need one to test whether a pair of wires is 120 or 240.


I've been using the HF meters for 20 years for *most* routine AC measurements.  I've never had a problem other than broken test leads.   But I've worked around mains electricity for 50+ years, run  6 AWG service lines, installed breaker panels, etc.  My Dad used to drive me nuts pulling 10 & 12 AWG into a hot 440 panel by himself.  He died of old age at 91.  He wore neoprene sole shoes and made sure he was not in contact with ground.  And like Dad, I learned electronics on tube circuits.  He gave me a 5 tube AM radio kit when I was 12-13.

When you buy better tools the cheap tools are great for a desk drawer kit at the office.  When I was in grad school I kept a small vise, soldering iron, etc so I could make up or repair RS-232 cables.  Most of the HF tools these days are quite good quality.  The fit and finish is usually a good indication.
Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 22, 2018, 06:59:35 am ---Looks like the 121GW is out of stock anyway -- so BM235 it is!

Free Harbor Freight DMM? Does it require going to a store or can it be done online? When I Google past threads apparently a lot of methods were either unintended or cut short.

--- End quote ---
Sorry to confuse you a little more, but you may want to consider a minor upgrade to the BM257. It's almost exactly the same as the BM235, but has a bar graph. That's a useful extra, especially in lieu of an oscilloscope.
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