New Electronics tech. salary question?

[etstudent]

I am roughly 8 weeks away from graduation. It was a long slog, but I'm finally nearing the end. I know it won't be easy to find a first ET gig, but what is the expected salary range for a new ET grad in NJ? I was told awhile back to expect $45,000 to $50,000 or $18 to $22 an hour. Now I got into this to make a difference in the world so salary means nothing to me but I did work extremely hard and would like to know salary ranges. I see assembler jobs for 10 bucks an hour, but i would guess those jobs are more for people that didn't get a formal education, right? Thanks for any info you may have.

[EEVblog]

Yes, forget assembler jobs, they are always unskilled low paying jobs.
Don't forget to shoot for junior engineering positions. Aim low and you stay low...

Dave.

[etstudent]

Thank you for the help, good info. Its hard to search for Electronics tech. jobs because its such a wide open field. There's no universal name for these jobs. I might not be done with courses altogether though, I might get specific training in Fiber optics, or fiber optic splicing, I may get PLC training to but am leaning against that at the moment.
Do you recommend applying for jobs that say 2 years experience even though I don't? Junior engineer I did even think of, thanks for the suggestion. There is a Electronics assembler job close to my house that is paying $18 to $19 and another from $14 to $19 but those are the only ones I ever saw that paid decent at all, the others are $10 or $11. Thanks for the help, appreciate it.

[8086]

Do you recommend applying for jobs that say 2 years experience even though I don't?

I applied for an electronics job that asked for 5+ years experience, and I actually have no commercial electronics experience except my assembly business. I didn't lie about it, I just sent some examples of my work so they could see my level. I got the job.

Lesson: apply for everything even if you think you won't get it! 

[etstudent]

Excellent advice, sometimes you can feel intimidated by jobs that say 5 plus years. The $18/$19 job says 5 years, but I'm thinking if I had 5 years experience I don't think that is the salary I would be looking at. Anyway again thanks for the help, good suggestions!

[EEVblog]

Do you recommend applying for jobs that say 2 years experience even though I don't?

Yes indeed. Especially if you have hobby project experience stuff on your resume (like you should!)

Dave.

[etstudent]

Hobby experience projects? what exactly is that? You mean like when I take apart old home theater receivers? I like doing that, DVD players too, I didn't know you could put that on your resume?

[8086]

Hobby experience projects? what exactly is that? You mean like when I take apart old home theater receivers? I like doing that, DVD players too, I didn't know you could put that on your resume?

Well, taking apart is one thing, but do you mod them or something in addition to taking them apart? Or design your own projects from scratch? That's really what people want to see.

[etstudent]

No, I'm not quite there yet, but now I might get on that quickly. Sounds like fun anyway, thanks for the suggestion.

[FenderBender]

Yeah an ET doesn't have to know everything in the world, from my understanding...but sure, even if you have some hobby projects, it shows interest: that you're not just doing this because you want a job, but because you enjoy it. People who enjoy their work do a better job.

Just my opinion.

[etstudent]

I agree, I would guess, so you can let me know, but I would guess that an employer wants to see passion from a new ET graduate. I mean no matter what you still need training in what that particular company does.

[vk6zgo]

Thank you for the help, good info. Its hard to search for Electronics tech. jobs because its such a wide open field. There's no universal name for these jobs. I might not be done with courses altogether though, I might get specific training in Fiber optics, or fiber optic splicing, I may get PLC training to but am leaning against that at the moment.
Do you recommend applying for jobs that say 2 years experience even though I don't? Junior engineer I did even think of, thanks for the suggestion. There is a Electronics assembler job close to my house that is paying $18 to $19 and another from $14 to $19 but those are the only ones I ever saw that paid decent at all, the others are $10 or $11. Thanks for the help, appreciate it.

I wouldn't go within a bull's roar of the Assembler job.
In my experience,those places are "at the bottom of the food chain" as far as Electronics jobs are concerned.

The prevailing culture in the place I worked at (as a Tech),was "Shut up & do as you're told!"
Any indication of reasonable Technical knowledge was looked at as a challenge to the pecking order.
If you remember that you are the designated "peckee",keep a low profile,& above all,work fast,you will be an Assembler until you can't stand it any more!

As an opinionated old fart with over 30 years as a Tech where I was expected to have a brain,I was like a square peg in a round hole!

Of course,as they say "YMMV"!

[etstudent]

Thanks for the advice, and oh yes I will keep a low profile, and stay out of the politics. I will stay away from controversy, and keep my mind on learning from other Techs. Thanks for the advice, if I'm following you correctly?

[vk6zgo]

No,I'm really advising you to be very careful about the jobs you do take on.
If you really have to work at such a place,keep your eyes out for a better job where you can use your brain,& get out of there as soon as you can!

[etstudent]

I hear what you saying, thanks for the advice.

[gregariz]

Please say what qualification you are going for, its very hard to give advice otherwise.

You say 'Electronics tech', but are you doing a trades course, some kind of certificate, an ASEET or a BSEET?

[etstudent]

Yeah its a certificate course, I should have mentioned that, sorry.

[gregariz]

OK ... usually certificates are about half an Associates.. depending on the certificate ~ 1 year course.

Theres heaps of stuff you could do. I agree with the other posters about assemblers. Having said that though, if they are the only jobs available you should take it until you find something better. On the plus side though, there will be little expected of you, you'd get to see how a manufacturer operates and how technicians and engineers are treated/work. Your soldering skills would also improve I'd guess.

Otherwise you could look for something like a technician job doing repair work, and engineering assistant spot (doing something like PCB layout or Autocad wiring drawings, or doing quality control or testing), a traveling salesman for a component rep or just use it to continue on to your AS.

[etstudent]

Yeah I was thinking of taking the "Industrial electronics and electrical maintenance" course at my school, after this. With my credit I'd have one full semester finished already, smart move in your opinion? That is A.S. degree by the way.
Most jobs that pay decent that I see say certificate/2 year degree. I'm a bit confused, I thought a certificate course from a credited institution was all that was really needed for the decent ET jobs?
I wonder how long it would take to finish 3 semesters in the "Industrial electronics/electrical maintenance" course working non stop, 5 days a week? How hard does the math get when getting into the A.S. program? I also have to find a local community college that will allow me to take a "Lab", what is a electronic/electrical lab anyway? I have lots of good community colleges nearby, I just don't know if they'd let me take a lab?
Wouldn't finishing the ET certificate course, and then passing the ETA's CETa exam and becoming certified be enough to get a pretty job, if not a really good job? Thanks for the help.

[etstudent]

Actually now that i remember my school calls its a "career diploma" not a certificate. Make any diff. or no? They have degree programs, career diploma programs, and certificate programs. this is in the "Career diploma" part.

[gregariz]

you need to do what is best for you.

My take is you should forget doing any other certificates etc unless they lead to a specific job. You already have enough paper to get a technicians job. If you are interested in being an engineer.. just find a college and do the BSEE and get it over with. If your math is crap, an alternative maybe to go straight to an AS and then continue on through to a BSEET. (BSEE is probably preferred in industry to a BSEET so just be mindful of that)

[etstudent]

Thanks, I sent you a PM, for specific questions I have.

[EEVblog]

I wonder how long it would take to finish 3 semesters in the "Industrial electronics/electrical maintenance" course working non stop, 5 days a week? How hard does the math get when getting into the A.S. program?

Usually you won't do any calculus unless you do a degree.
So the math should be pretty easy, as there is usually little focus on it unless you do a degree. But that will likely vary a lot between countries and courses.

I also have to find a local community college that will allow me to take a "Lab", what is a electronic/electrical lab anyway? I have lots of good community colleges nearby, I just don't know if they'd let me take a lab?

Usually a class called "lab" in electronics would involve practical stuff like using scopes, meters, soldering, troubleshooting etc

Dave.

[etstudent]

Thanks for the help. I am confused at what to do. I have to concentrate on the course I'm in now, rather than what is next, if there is a next. Thanks again for the help.

[vk6zgo]

I wonder how long it would take to finish 3 semesters in the "Industrial electronics/electrical maintenance" course working non stop, 5 days a week? How hard does the math get when getting into the A.S. program?

Usually you won't do any calculus unless you do a degree.
So the math should be pretty easy, as there is usually little focus on it unless you do a degree. But that will likely vary a lot between countries and courses.

I also have to find a local community college that will allow me to take a "Lab", what is a electronic/electrical lab anyway? I have lots of good community colleges nearby, I just don't know if they'd let me take a lab?

Usually a class called "lab" in electronics would involve practical stuff like using scopes, meters, soldering, troubleshooting etc

Dave.

Back in the day,when I did the Tech Officer (Bridging ) course in the,then,Telecom Australia,it was supposed to be Diploma level.
We certainly did Calculus in that course,so I always assumed they did in the normal Diploma.

There weren't enough bright young  lads & lasses going through the normal Diploma course,so they had to "Retread" some of us OFs!

It was a real pressure cooker type thing,we were supposed to have a work day off each fortnight to study---Hah!
The poor old Boss had a hard enough time covering a whole State worth of Transmitters with his normal staff,so the
study days got lost along the way!

[EEVblog]

Back in the day,when I did the Tech Officer (Bridging ) course in the,then,Telecom Australia,it was supposed to be Diploma level.
We certainly did Calculus in that course,so I always assumed they did in the normal Diploma.

Yes, it used to be like that, but I am lead to believe that Diploma courses these days have no calculus in them, and it's been that way for a long time now.

Dave.

[vk6zgo]

Back in the day,when I did the Tech Officer (Bridging ) course in the,then,Telecom Australia,it was supposed to be Diploma level.
We certainly did Calculus in that course,so I always assumed they did in the normal Diploma.

Yes, it used to be like that, but I am lead to believe that Diploma courses these days have no calculus in them, and it's been that way for a long time now.

Dave.

Dumbed down!

[tec5c]

I am currently doing an Advanced Diploma course here in Sydney, and I can tell you that there is calculus in the course. There is a Maths 1 (core module) and a Maths 2 (elective module) and the Maths 1 involves calculus, along with other topics I did in the early years of high school ie. simple equations, trig etc

The Maths 1 module is also a part of a regular Diploma course too, although it is 'Electronic and Comms Engineering Diploma so I say that justifies having a maths subject as one of its core modules.

[etstudent]

I'm just concentrate on my course, or what is left of my course and forget about what is next. I just finished my Base number systems book, WOW complicated, but as interesting as it gets. Now I know what the ones and zeros mean in digital electronics, TOTALING fascinating, well to me anyway. Its all simple, confusing and complicated at the same time, if that makes sense. Once you work with these systems I'm sure it gets super easy, but for a beginner like myself, its confusing, but fun. I should of taken this course 15 years ago, I'd be a Master certified technician by now. This is all fun to me.

[T4P]

Base logarithm is the interesting ... but better leave it to the machines for god's sake,
we would sure be prone to make mistakes on 2^64
They do that every 100's of picoseconds in a >2GHz cycle every second ...
we take ages to do that

[etstudent]

Hey guys another question on this matter, how much does getting CETa/Associate certified electronics technician certification to gaining employment? Will employers really take notice? At least get employers to take a long hard look? My plan is to study for it the day i graduate and take the test with a few weeks or so. Thanks for the help.

[Michael Weston]

Call the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce at (609) 989-7888, explain to them you will soon be an EE graduate, and ask them to tell you the salary range you should expect.  They will know, or they are not doing the job they are paid for.

[etstudent]

The chamber of commerce would know something like  that? I thought they deal with business issues only?

[IanB]

Call the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce at (609) 989-7888, explain to them you will soon be an EE graduate, and ask them to tell you the salary range you should expect.  They will know, or they are not doing the job they are paid for.

You have to ask the right question though. The author of this thread is not going to be an EE graduate...

[Michael Weston]

The author of this thread is not going to be an EE graduate...

Oops!  I misread the originally post.  I thought I read "EE" when it was in actuality "ET".  My apologies.

In that case, call the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce at (609) 989-7888, explain to them you will soon be an Electronics Technician graduate (be sure to mention your new degree if you are getting one), and ask them to tell you the salary ranges you should expect for an Electronics Technician from entry level through highly experienced.  If you do exactly that, you will get the information you need.

The web site for the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce is:
http://www.njchamber.com

[vk6zgo]

I didn't even know the OP lived in"Joisey"

[etstudent]

Yeah no EE for me, that would be a too much for me to chew. I am thinking of going for my Associates degree in Electronics technology but that would be it for me. If I can make a decent salary as an ET, I would be happy enough. I mean if in 5 or so years I could be making 60 plus would be perfect. Everyone's definition of a "good salary" is different though. An Electronics engineer in Jersey makes big, big money, average salary is like $100,000, that is beautiful but I don't have 4 years of schooling in me, no way. Thanks again for the help.

[JohnS_AZ]

Yeah no EE for me, that would be a too much for me to chew. I am thinking of going for my Associates degree in Electronics technology but that would be it for me.

DO NOT sell yourself short. Yes, you should go toward a formal Associates Degree. That is a minimum requirement for the better technician jobs around here (or many years of experience). You will surely find a job with a certificate, but you will have much better opportunities with an Assoc. degree.

But once you have that, if you get into any reasonable sized company they are likely to have some form of tuition reimbursement. Using that, you can take one class at a time, and eventually end up with an EE. It may take many years but you'll get there, and it's worth the effort.

A few random thoughts about looking for tech jobs ...

Here in the US I never hear the phrase "Junior Engineer". Look for Engineering Technician or Engineering Assistant.

Assembly jobs can certainly suck, but they can definitely get you in the door. If the company is assembling electronics then they have technicians somewhere, and you'll be in position to snag those jobs when they pop up.

Most companies that hire engineers also have technicians, and few post technician jobs on on-line sites and some don't even print them in the paper. If you see a job posting for an EE, and the company looks cool, send a cover letter and resume to the HR department seeking a tech job. Costs nothing but a stamp to try.

Good luck and congrats on what you've accomplished so far!!

[etstudent]

Thank you JohnS_AZ, o appreciate your post very much. Great advice as well, I really do want an Associates degree, but higher that I'm not quite sure. If I could get some kind of tuition reimbursement I'd JUMP on it. I'm gonna do some serious searches here, I like what you said that where there are engineers there are techs and most likely won't post those jobs. Great advice i had not heard before, thank you.

[etstudent]

Ok here is where I am now. I am almost certain to take the AAS Electrical-mechanical systems and maintenance program. With my credits already from the ET course and some other training I have had I might have a lot of the credits done already. I might only need 23 to 30 more credits, I'm not sure exactly yet, but I could get an AAS. Just amazing to me, amazing. I was a guy that never even thought about higher education till last year and now I could be going for an associates. Electrical and mechanical maintenance is actually the route I really wanted to take. I would like to work on plant/factory equipment. Of all the jobs I check for on the internet, nothing comes up more than maintenance techs. They all start at over 20 bucks an hour too, most 25 to 30 an hour. I am really excited now, I had no idea a degree would be so accessible. 

[JohnS_AZ]

That's great! You hit one of my hot buttons. :-)

My first job was as a manufacturing tech, and over the course of 15 years ended up in manufacturing engineering. I am a HUGE proponent of manufacturing engineering, but it depends on where you interests are. When I was heading down the electronic engineering path, I was learning electronics and a little bit of software. But on the manufacturing engineering path, you learn ..

electronics, software, pneumatics, hydraulics, mechanical systems, control systems, power, plumbing, virtually every technical system in a factory. I always wanted to know how EVERYTHING worked, so it was ideal to me.

Another up side to that, in manufacturing engineering, the end product is irrelevant. Your skills will be valued by companies making circuit board, or air planes, or paper plates, or coffee cups. You'll have a LOT more oppurtunities to explore your career.

[FenderBender]

I didn't even know the OP lived in"Joisey"

For heaven sake! I live in New Jersey and not a single person says anything remotely like "joisey". God.

[vk6zgo]

I didn't even know the OP lived in"Joisey"

For heaven sake! I live in New Jersey and not a single person says anything remotely like "joisey". God.

That hit a tender spot!
I wouldn't know,not ever having been there,but it seems to be the way other Americans hear it,as it is always written like that when they are teasing you folks about your pronunciation.

Of course,in Western Australia,(or "DUBYOOAY"),we all speak clearly,& with no problems with pronunciation.

[Uncle Vernon]

Of course,in Western Australia,(or "DUBYOOAY"),we all speak clearly,& with no problems with pronunciation.

And in nothing but the clearest and most perfectly enunciated SuffAfreeken accents!

[etstudent]

Thank you JohnS_AZ, thank you. This is the direction I REALLY wanted to go. Plant/factory technician/mechanic. There are zillions of jobs in this field that are going unfilled because I think most people think of manufacturing as crappy, low paying jobs plus there are not enough trained people for these jobs. I could be on my way to something very good.

[FenderBender]

I didn't even know the OP lived in"Joisey"

For heaven sake! I live in New Jersey and not a single person says anything remotely like "joisey". God.

That hit a tender spot!
I wouldn't know,not ever having been there,but it seems to be the way other Americans hear it,as it is always written like that when they are teasing you folks about your pronunciation.

Of course,in Western Australia,(or "DUBYOOAY"),we all speak clearly,& with no problems with pronunciation.

Haha I'm only joking.

[IanB]

For heaven sake! I live in New Jersey and not a single person says anything remotely like "joisey". God.

That's because they're all old family Italian 

[etstudent]

Fun, I know, but lets get back on topic a bit? Thanks.

[FenderBender]

What other questions do you have..?

[etstudent]

Nothing in particular, I was just kidding. Making fun of NJ is easy these days, have you seen our Governor? He thinks he's a wiseguy from the Sopranos or Boardwalk empire !

[FenderBender]

Yeah he's a major douche. Seems like everyone out of state admires him, but nah, he's an ass. I agree that NJ isn't perfect and that we have a lot to fix but he's too much at once.

[etstudent]

Yeah i DON'T want a political discussion because they turn UGLY and FAST. I was talking about his ego, or his image he thinks he has. Its a bit, just a bit  .
Anyway I am glad we have Thomas Edison state college here, really anyone can attend, but I am feeling good about going into the AAS Electrical-mechanical systems and maintenance program. I think this is a perfect transition from the ET course to go into. I want a real degree, something I never thought I'd be going for!

[FenderBender]

I just saw a TE billboard on the Turnpike the other day. I'm a senior in high school so I'm going to try to get into Rutgers electrical engineering, that or TCNJ where my brother went for Civil... But yeah I've heard good things about Thomas Edison. Is that for adults only or something?

[etstudent]

Oh if you can get into Electrical engineering it would be the smartest move you could make. Rutgers is very, very good too. My brother-in-law went there, but not for EE. He told me though their EE programs are outstanding and very respected. If i could go back to HS, and talk some sense into myself at the times, I'd scream at myself to get into Electrical engineering. A guy I know finished school and stepped directly into an 80 grand a year job. I do what i can to make up for lost time, Electrical and mechanical maintenance.
About Thomas Edison state college, it says for adults, but i don't understand what that mean exactly. I mean will they not allow a 19 year old to enroll? In any event i hear great things about them. They were ranked by Forbes mag as a top 20 schools for use of technology or something like that. Its a real good school I hear, and respected by industry.
Good luck on your decision for schools and what to do. EE is a GREAT choice!

[StubbornGreek]

First off, I can't believe there's so many of us from NJ in this thread, lol - out of how many US members?...

Ok, there's some good advice in this thread (particularly those say that sticking with it pays in the long-run).

If I may express two things:

1) You mention that 'if' you could go back to your high-school self and... Well, it doesn't sound like you're that old at all actually (year or two out of HS?). What I'm trying to say is, there's always going to be something you could have done differently, but that will also never matter. What matters is what you can (and are going) to do today.

2) Don't focus so much on salary when you're starting out (there's plenty of time for that). As long as you're doing something you truly have a passion for, money will certainly come along with knowledge, experience, etc. The financial end often corrupts the innate love we have for what we do or diverts us into something we don't truly have a passion for (the precedent to unhappiness).

Good luck, it sounds like you're at the beginning of your journey and let me say that its a great place to be, have fun and much success.

[etstudent]

Thanks for the advice. I think electrical/mechanical maintenance is as far as I will go with education. I don't want to get into the math it takes to become an engineer. But hey ya never know down the line, maybe I'll gather the strength to do that. You can make good dough in the electrical/mechanical maintenance field, with PLC experience you can make more money. I also agree it has to be your passion, and its been for a very long time for me. Thanks again for the advice, I appreciate it.

[FenderBender]

First off, I can't believe there's so many of us from NJ in this thread, lol - out of how many US members?...

Ok, there's some good advice in this thread (particularly those say that sticking with it pays in the long-run).

If I may express two things:

1) You mention that 'if' you could go back to your high-school self and... Well, it doesn't sound like you're that old at all actually (year or two out of HS?). What I'm trying to say is, there's always going to be something you could have done differently, but that will also never matter. What matters is what you can (and are going) to do today.

2) Don't focus so much on salary when you're starting out (there's plenty of time for that). As long as you're doing something you truly have a passion for, money will certainly come along with knowledge, experience, etc. The financial end often corrupts the innate love we have for what we do or diverts us into something we don't truly have a passion for (the precedent to unhappiness).

Good luck, it sounds like you're at the beginning of your journey and let me say that its a great place to be, have fun and much success.

Yeah. I think there's more of us on here too!

I agree with you. I go to high school in Northern NJ. I'm in classes with lots of smart kids. Kids with big aspirations. But one thing that they all have in their minds is "Money money money". "I want the job that will pay the most". Money is not a bad thing to have, don't get me wrong, but I've learned something from adults and people that actually have experience, and that's to do what you actually enjoy. You've heard it a lot, but it's true. If you enjoy something, you'll be passionate about your work, and you'll do a good job, and subsequently you'll get the money you deserve!

I play varsity tennis. We have 'managers' for our team that keep attendance and help out. They're all girls. I was talking to one of the senior girls about where she was going to college and what she wanted to do. She said she was planning on doing electrical engineering. Of course, I became excited and asked more. Then I asked her, "Did you like physics? Did you like simple circuits?"....and she said "No actually I really hated circuits. They were so boring"  My heart broken, I asked "Are you sure you really want to do that then?" And to break my heart further she said, "Well my dad says it's a really high paying job, so that's why I'm going to do it"...I just left it at that. Moved on to another subject...

But yeah. Why do people do this? If you know you don't like something, that's not to say that you can't grow to like it, but why choose it in the first place? Money? That's it? You'd rather be miserable in the activity that will consume the majority of your life than to be happy in your job? What sense does that make?

I understand that it's hard to know what you're going to do with the rest of your life when you're 17 or 18 years old, but sheesh, if you will go as far as to say that you hate circuits, why on earth would you want to major in EE?

[etstudent]

That's weird I love circuits, these lessons actually fascinate me. I can't wait to move on to the next book to learn a new subject, Its like a new adventure with a each book, lesson. Hmm I guess some people were not cut out for this stuff, and I guess I just was. starting a little later, but making up good time, and enjoying it.

[IanB]

I was talking to one of the senior girls about where she was going to college and what she wanted to do. She said she was planning on doing electrical engineering. Of course, I became excited and asked more. Then I asked her, "Did you like physics? Did you like simple circuits?"....and she said "No actually I really hated circuits. They were so boring"   My heart broken, I asked "Are you sure you really want to do that then?" And to break my heart further she said, "Well my dad says it's a really high paying job, so that's why I'm going to do it"...I just left it at that. Moved on to another subject...

She probably won't make it, sadly. An EE degree is a lot of work and it's hard to put in the study hours if you don't enjoy what you are doing. Supposing she does graduate, she will then have a hard time in the workplace. Engineers are very good at telling the difference between people who are invested in what they are doing and people who are just along for the ride.

[etstudent]

I agree, you really need a passion for this. Engineering is out of the question for me, but Electrical and mechanical system maintenance is not. A good place for me I think.

[FenderBender]

Yeah you'll do great I'd say. If you truly are passionate about something, you'll be successful. ie. You won't let yourself fail.

Ian, it's unfortunate. I don't know if she changed her mind, but if not, hopefully she'll learn to love it. Doesn't always happen, but sometimes doing resistors in series and parallel doesn't always excite the senses in a high school physics lab, so perhaps some more interesting applications might help.

[StubbornGreek]

I was talking to one of the senior girls about where she was going to college and what she wanted to do. She said she was planning on doing electrical engineering. Of course, I became excited and asked more. Then I asked her, "Did you like physics? Did you like simple circuits?"....and she said "No actually I really hated circuits. They were so boring"   My heart broken, I asked "Are you sure you really want to do that then?" And to break my heart further she said, "Well my dad says it's a really high paying job, so that's why I'm going to do it"...I just left it at that. Moved on to another subject...

She probably won't make it, sadly. An EE degree is a lot of work and it's hard to put in the study hours if you don't enjoy what you are doing. Supposing she does graduate, she will then have a hard time in the workplace. Engineers are very good at telling the difference between people who are invested in what they are doing and people who are just along for the ride.

@FenderBender: You're looking at things from a good perspective. It doesn't matter if you're going to be doing the same thing ten years from now as you do today as long as you love doing (whatever it is).

@IanB: Pretty much right although if she squeaks by, there's (unfortunately) always room for loafers at larger companies.