Newbie to Electronics im 24 years old

[VladKEasternTiger]

Hi Everyone, okay this is my first post, I love the videos and work by Dave, he is very inspiring, okay im 24 years old and live in the UK, im interested in Electronics and im new and just looking at it from a Hobby point of view, I have breadboard and multimeter and know the basics, im wondering now how can I teach myself I know books and the Internet are the best tools, im wondering also if you guys could give me a breakdown of things to learn and understand at this stage for me? What specific topics. Also without a degree in Electronics Engineering what career choices or options are they? I know this is a long way as im new but Im  just curious

Thanks everyone and thanks Dave for this great website

John

[EEVblog]

Also without a degree in Electronics Engineering what career choices or options are they?

Depends on the culture in your country, the field, and the company in question.
It can range anywhere from having the exact same choices and options as someone with a degree, or no hope at all.
But generally speaking, electronics has traditionally been an industry where qualifications don't matter much, it's your experience that counts. That's pretty much how it is here in Australia, but other countries will vary.

Dave.

[VladKEasternTiger]

Hi Dave my eyes are still half shit its 7am here, Im in the UK so I guess its similar culture to that of Austraila?

[DJPhil]

I understand how you feel, it's just coming up on 4am here in Nebraska.

I think what Dave's talking about is somewhat like the old debate in the IT industry about certification, experience, and education (in the formal sense). Pick any two, put a 'versus' in between and google it, and you'll get a heap of articles debating the pros and cons from both the human resource and job seeker points of view. It seems that popular opinion waxes and wanes as to which is to be most respected, at least in the IT industry at large. I suspect it will depend a lot on the position you're after and the particular beliefs prevalent among those who often do the hiring in the local industry. Individuals are different, but they tend to use similar sources of information to form their opinions of best practices, so they can be described as belonging to a culture of thought.

If you want to know more about how things sit where you are you could check with some local companies and see what they say. I rambled on a bit in another thread about this. I'm a big fan of jumping right in and asking. It could help you make friends, build contacts, and could lead to a job someday. If you manage to talk for a while with some of the people in your area, you might get to know the work in a day to day sort of way and see if you'd like it.

Speaking more to the hobby side of things, there are a couple threads related to print resources floating around on the forum. I wondered myself about where to start, so I skimmed through the table of contents of a few of the books (that I can't afford yet). It seems that the first foundational concepts are rooted in DC circuit theory. It's just the sort of thing the old 50-in-One kits used to have, but with more depth. This is the direction I'm coming from, but some folks seem to break in from the uC world. I guess in that case they tend to be coming from the world of programming, so their learning priorities would be different than someone like myself who just has a 'fix the toaster' background. It all depends on where you are and where you want to go. If you're not sure where you want to go yet, it's hard to go wrong building more gear for yourself.

I hope that helps a bit, need more coffee. 

[VladKEasternTiger]

Hi thanks for your reply, That was refereshing to read, Yes I understand what you mean talk to people in the specific industry, they is so much to learn and the more you uncover the more you realise how little you actually know, well in my case anyway, one person told me the best way to understand and learn electronics is immerse yourself in it buy a breadboard and MOSFET  transistors led lights and play around and learn basic schematic diagarams. I want to be able ultimately to understand and fix and troubleshoot electric devices in businesses and homes, again I have no money for college and have to rely on the Libary for books

[VladKEasternTiger]

I understand how you feel, it's just coming up on 4am here in Nebraska.

I think what Dave's talking about is somewhat like the old debate in the IT industry about certification, experience, and education (in the formal sense). Pick any two, put a 'versus' in between and google it, and you'll get a heap of articles debating the pros and cons from both the human resource and job seeker points of view. It seems that popular opinion waxes and wanes as to which is to be most respected, at least in the IT industry at large. I suspect it will depend a lot on the position you're after and the particular beliefs prevalent among those who often do the hiring in the local industry. Individuals are different, but they tend to use similar sources of information to form their opinions of best practices, so they can be described as belonging to a culture of thought.

If you want to know more about how things sit where you are you could check with some local companies and see what they say. I rambled on a bit in another thread about this. I'm a big fan of jumping right in and asking. It could help you make friends, build contacts, and could lead to a job someday. If you manage to talk for a while with some of the people in your area, you might get to know the work in a day to day sort of way and see if you'd like it.

Speaking more to the hobby side of things, there are a couple threads related to print resources floating around on the forum. I wondered myself about where to start, so I skimmed through the table of contents of a few of the books (that I can't afford yet). It seems that the first foundational concepts are rooted in DC circuit theory. It's just the sort of thing the old 50-in-One kits used to have, but with more depth. This is the direction I'm coming from, but some folks seem to break in from the uC world. I guess in that case they tend to be coming from the world of programming, so their learning priorities would be different than someone like myself who just has a 'fix the toaster' background. It all depends on where you are and where you want to go. If you're not sure where you want to go yet, it's hard to go wrong building more gear for yourself.

I hope that helps a bit, need more coffee. 

One more thing I forgot to mention, may I ask how long have you been into electronics or are you new to this, what do you think can be acheived in 2 years of self study? Einstein said if you study a subject for 15 minutes daily you can become an expert 

[DJPhil]

One more thing I forgot to mention, may I ask how long have you been into electronics or are you new to this, what do you think can be acheived in 2 years of self study? Einstein said if you study a subject for 15 minutes daily you can become an expert 

I myself am fairly new to component level electronics, I'm no professional by any means! I'm just an all-purpose science and computer nerd who took to focusing on electronics in a bit more depth than I have previously. For me it's one of those 'black boxes', the contents of which I don't fully understand. I try to fix, modify, and improve nearly everything I come across, and I've been limited in the sense that once I reach a circuit board it either works or it doesn't. I don't ever expect my electronic skill to rise to the level of marketability, it's simply an interesting and useful skill set I can add to what I already (sort of) know.

The rest I believe boils down to focus and motivation, and I tend to believe that anything's possible. If you're pursuing a passion then it will be somewhat natural to keep learning and practicing. What you'll know after two years will depend on all sorts of things. You might try setting a goal and simply work in that direction, like a particular thing you want to build, and that way you have a direction and a scope within which you can begin. I try to understand things well enough so that I can teach them to someone else, whether or not I ever actually do. There's a lot that could be said about this, but I'm probably not the one to best organize the concepts of personal growth.

[Simon]

from the little i know there is no electronics industry in the uk to speak of, or rather its quite competitive, I've been told it's a waste of time trying at and so have chosen not to persue it as I don't think I'm good enough for a carrer at it except if I'm self employed then no one can moan about my qualifications and just take a product on does it or does it not work !

You will need a basic understanding of both analogue and digital electronics and making them work together, micro controllers are a wonderful world but I would suggest a sound foundation in electronics first, microcontrollers require more programming skills than anything else and you will need to knpw how to lay out a circuit around them and get them to interface with the real world.

if you don't mind work just assembling etc there may be work out there but as a designer I think you will have to get to be very good and probably qualified, maybe designing something off your own back will get you noticed.

the above may all be wrong but its my general impression, in one words it boils down to: china, we can't be bothered in the UK anymore to actually make something

[VladKEasternTiger]

from the little i know there is no electronics industry in the uk to speak of, or rather its quite competitive, I've been told it's a waste of time trying at and so have chosen not to persue it as I don't think I'm good enough for a carrer at it except if I'm self employed then no one can moan about my qualifications and just take a product on does it or does it not work !

You will need a basic understanding of both analogue and digital electronics and making them work together, micro controllers are a wonderful world but I would suggest a sound foundation in electronics first, microcontrollers require more programming skills than anything else and you will need to knpw how to lay out a circuit around them and get them to interface with the real world.

if you don't mind work just assembling etc there may be work out there but as a designer I think you will have to get to be very good and probably qualified, maybe designing something off your own back will get you noticed.

the above may all be wrong but its my general impression, in one words it boils down to: china, we can't be bothered in the UK anymore to actually make something

Hi Simon, thanks for the response, I agree China and Japan and India and Israel are dominating in electronics, mabie that is incorrect but from what ive seen many electronic engineers lots are from the countries I mentioned. I am not talking about this very skilled advanced leve, I think when we use the term "electronics" we all have different interpretations of it, my interpretation is simply knowing different components and how they all work and function together, basic devices such televisions, radios, telephones etc.. if you see what I mean? sure they mabie no money or "career" in this field because when you purchase a new television or electronic device most consumers also purchase the extended warranty with it, thats why many old type of repair shops have closed down where I live.  I know first hand if you ask 20 people in the street about a circuit board mabie 1 or 2 or 3 would know about how they function, I built a basic laser trip wire circuit alarm and my friends are so impressed by this.

Do you know why the uk "cannot be bothered anymore" to make things?

[VladKEasternTiger]

Also without a degree in Electronics Engineering what career choices or options are they?

Depends on the culture in your country, the field, and the company in question.
It can range anywhere from having the exact same choices and options as someone with a degree, or no hope at all.
But generally speaking, electronics has traditionally been an industry where qualifications don't matter much, it's your experience that counts. That's pretty much how it is here in Australia, but other countries will vary.

Dave.

Hi Dave, someone of your knowledge is it possible to attain with out the university/college route as people cannot afford this, how about learning from the material online and books, im wondering how good you can troubleshoot and repair basic electronic devices such as televisions, dvd players, hi fi and ipod systems?

[Zero999]

from the little i know there is no electronics industry in the uk to speak of, or rather its quite competitive, I've been told it's a waste of time trying at and so have chosen not to persue it as I don't think I'm good enough for a carrer at it except if I'm self employed then no one can moan about my qualifications and just take a product on does it or does it not work !

I've been told the same thing.

I've often thought of doing a degree but even if I had the motivation to, I still might not be able to find a job.

The trouble is, most of the electronics engineering has gone to China.

[Simon]

Well I've set myself to learn as much as I can and do what I can for myself, maybe oneday I could have a part time business at it just because it's something I enjoy and can make some pocket money with, the thing is to find things that are different to do, things that china has not thought of, find a niche market, not only is it pointless trying to re-invent the wheel when it comes to china you can't compete with the prices anyhow !

[VladKEasternTiger]

Well I've set myself to learn as much as I can and do what I can for myself, maybe oneday I could have a part time business at it just because it's something I enjoy and can make some pocket money with, the thing is to find things that are different to do, things that china has not thought of, find a niche market, not only is it pointless trying to re-invent the wheel when it comes to china you can't compete with the prices anyhow !

Hi Simon can you tell me when you say part time business what would it povide I am assuming general electronic trouble shooting and repairs. BTW I love your website, your a great Photographer 

[EEVblog]

Hi Dave, someone of your knowledge is it possible to attain with out the university/college route as people cannot afford this, how about learning from the material online and books, im wondering how good you can troubleshoot and repair basic electronic devices such as televisions, dvd players, hi fi and ipod systems?

There is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.
Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.
In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.
The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.

How good can I troubleshoot TV's and HiFi's?
I'll be the first to admit I suck at it, so I usually won't even bother. Any TV tech would do it 50 times faster than I could, and with little or no gear, because they have the experience and the parts.

Dave.

[Simon]

Designing is one thing, troubleshooting is another, it's one thing to design something, you know how it works and hopefully if your a good designer you know what went wrong if something does, knowing the potential faults of another persons design and how to trace them is a totaly different thing

[VladKEasternTiger]

Hi Dave, someone of your knowledge is it possible to attain with out the university/college route as people cannot afford this, how about learning from the material online and books, im wondering how good you can troubleshoot and repair basic electronic devices such as televisions, dvd players, hi fi and ipod systems?

There is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.
Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.
In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.
The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.

How good can I troubleshoot TV's and HiFi's?
I'll be the first to admit I suck at it, so I usually won't even bother. Any TV tech would do it 50 times faster than I could, and with little or no gear, because they have the experience and the parts.

Dave.

Thank you for the reply Dave, Im surprised at that last comment and I dont mean it in a derogatory  way, forgive me as im a novice in all of Engineering and Eletronics, I just assume that all EE would know blindfolded things like tv or hifi diagnoisis

[VladKEasternTiger]

Hi Dave, someone of your knowledge is it possible to attain with out the university/college route as people cannot afford this, how about learning from the material online and books, im wondering how good you can troubleshoot and repair basic electronic devices such as televisions, dvd players, hi fi and ipod systems?

There is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.
Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.
In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.
The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.

How good can I troubleshoot TV's and HiFi's?
I'll be the first to admit I suck at it, so I usually won't even bother. Any TV tech would do it 50 times faster than I could, and with little or no gear, because they have the experience and the parts.

Dave.

There is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.
Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.
In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.
The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.


Absoutely

[Simon]

what was the point of reposting what dave had already said twice

[VladKEasternTiger]

what was the point of reposting what dave had already said twice

When I totally agree with a statement I cut and paste the specific to illustrate my view

[Simon]

you can partially quote someone (by removing the text you are not refering to) and put you comment underneith/above, in this way we don't have ythe read a quote AND read it again in your own post

[EEVblog]

Designing is one thing, troubleshooting is another, it's one thing to design something, you know how it works and hopefully if your a good designer you know what went wrong if something does, knowing the potential faults of another persons design and how to trace them is a totaly different thing

Absolutely.
My first job was troubleshooting and testing video switching and security gear, and after a while you get so good at troubleshooting that particular gear, you can do it 10 times faster than the actual designer could. It's all about familiarity with the gear in question. I'd have no hesitation is saying that with that particular gear, I was the worlds best troubleshooter. But give me a TV I have never touched before and I'll look like a turkey.
That's why I don't think there is an EE in existence that could fix a TV quicker than an experienced TV service tech, even if they are the worlds best troubleshooter. There is just no substitute for device specific experience.

Dave.

[Simon]

quite, when I lived in Italy I befriended a local TV repairer who was also a hobbiest, he would get me parts i needed as in Italy you can only buy from Rs and others if you are a business, I would often chat with him about projects and take stuff for him to identify as I was always pulling TV's apart to recover the parts that otherwise I would have to wait weeks for. I remember taking him a circuit to ask him what it was and without a second glance before i even handed it to him he told me not only that it was a power supply but one from a philips TV. most TV's have diagrams that can be obtained listing comon faults and showing waveforms and voltages on selectred point of diagnostic interest.

designing and repairing are two totally different fields

[VladKEasternTiger]

from the little i know there is no electronics industry in the uk to speak of, or rather its quite competitive, I've been told it's a waste of time trying at and so have chosen not to persue it as I don't think I'm good enough for a carrer at it except if I'm self employed then no one can moan about my qualifications and just take a product on does it or does it not work !

I've been told the same thing.

I've often thought of doing a degree but even if I had the motivation to, I still might not be able to find a job.

The trouble is, most of the electronics engineering has gone to China.

Why has it gone to china other than economic factors, they is more to electronics than electronic engineering dont you think?

[rossmoffett]

Why has it gone to china other than economic factors, they is more to electronics than electronic engineering dont you think?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/847607/the_world_is_changing/

The video says it all.

[VladKEasternTiger]

Good vedio

what the solution is?