Author Topic: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?  (Read 3771 times)

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Offline DFCTopic starter

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Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« on: September 24, 2019, 12:29:22 am »
Hello,been lurking awhile but pretty much new here.
I can get my hands on a above mentioned oscilloscope but there is something that bothers me. Manual reckons it's a digital scope but it looks to me like a combo. OK, scope came out in 1982, making it as old as me and it seems to have a lot of bells and whistles but what bothers me is in the manual the analog specs for bandwidth clocks out at 300khz?That seems really low. The digital max sampling rate is  at 1mhz?12 bit dac?
It just seems bloody low for a scope that seems to have had a lot of effort on manufacturing side of things. Has features that I would imagine would be top tier for back in the day.
My question  is can I use this scope as a replacement for the 20mhz,cheap piece of GW Instek 620 crap that never bloody works cause something else keeps breaking?I want something for general electronics work and the advice has always been 20mhz minimum.
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 02:50:33 am »
Not really, that scope is not meant to substitute a 20Mhz analog scope. However thanks to the 12 bit resolution it will be more precise than others so use it to make precise low frequency ac measurements, think of it as multimeter with an oscilloscope display
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2019, 05:07:28 am »
They seem rather expensive on ebay given the specs, and especially given the plethora of decent scopes at low prices out there, though I wouldn't like to speculate on shipping costs for a CRO type scope to RSA, which is where your flag indicates unless I'm horribly mistaken
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Offline james_s

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 05:12:59 am »
300kHz 12 bit? Is it intended for audio work?
 

Offline PartialDischarge

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 06:06:05 am »
300kHz 12 bit? Is it intended for audio work?
It was intended mainly for physical, mechanical and biological signals. Here is an ad from a NASA Tech brief of a later model, advertising their better accuracy and resolution. I'm lucky to have a Nicolet Sigma 30 which is 12 bit and 5MHz (http://www.testequipmenthq.com/datasheets/NICOLET-SIGMA%2030-Datasheet.pdf)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 06:29:17 am by MasterTech »
 
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Offline DFCTopic starter

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 09:25:48 am »
Not really, that scope is not meant to substitute a 20Mhz analog scope. However thanks to the 12 bit resolution it will be more precise than others so use it to make precise low frequency ac measurements, think of it as multimeter with an oscilloscope display

I cant imagine using it for anything in else in my shop really.

They seem rather expensive on ebay given the specs, and especially given the plethora of decent scopes at low prices out there, though I wouldn't like to speculate on shipping costs for a CRO type scope to RSA, which is where your flag indicates unless I'm horribly mistaken

Your quite right,RSA.I think Ive seen one more other member on here (TimB I think?).The scope is just a few kays from me,no shipping needed and is free to boot.The thing is surplus ie sitting on a shelf after being replaced with newer equipment quite a few years ago now.

Dunno,though I'd think it would fit that bracket nicely?

300kHz 12 bit? Is it intended for audio work?
It was intended mainly for physical, mechanical and biological signals. Here is an ad from a NASA Tech brief of a later model, advertising their better accuracy and resolution. I'm lucky to have a Nicolet Sigma 30 which is 12 bit and 5MHz (http://www.testequipmenthq.com/datasheets/NICOLET-SIGMA%2030-Datasheet.pdf)

300kHz 12 bit? Is it intended for audio work?

Come to think of it,the guys Im getting it from do make use of alot of sensors (heat,weight,flow ect) around the place.Can see how one would need accuracy and resolution at low freq or rather what passed for it back in the day.
Its a crying shame for me,cant really use it for what I want.Has alot of really nice features that my GW POS doesn't have like the ability to actually work amongst others.Anyway,thanks for the input.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 04:40:18 pm »
Free, and within easy collection distance?

Take it, you'll find a use for it eventually   :-DD
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Offline DFCTopic starter

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 06:45:35 pm »
Free, and within easy collection distance?

Take it, you'll find a use for it eventually   :-DD

I reckon that too. Even if it makes up part of the decor.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 04:21:44 am »
That can also lead to hoarding and leave you with so much stuff that you don't have space to use any of it. At least something like this should be easy to rehome if it ends up not being useful.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2019, 08:44:37 pm »
That can also lead to hoarding and leave you with so much stuff that you don't have space to use any of it. At least something like this should be easy to rehome if it ends up not being useful.

That is when you march right over to the TEA thread.  You will be welcomed with open arms. :-DD
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Offline rstofer

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 10:43:05 pm »
I have had scopes with lesser bandwidth.  We all push for high bandwidth to be able to view square waves where we need, perhaps, 9 times the fundamental frequency.  A 100 MHz scope is marginally capable of displaying a 10 MHz square wave.

But, thinking of audio and sine waves, 300 kHz is pretty reasonable and there is a lot of digital going on at less then 30 kHz.

If it is cheap enough, it might serve you well while you save up for one of the entry level Siglents SDS1102X-E, SDS1104X-E, SDS1204X-E or the Rigol DS1054Z.

 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 08:02:07 am »
I have had scopes with lesser bandwidth.  We all push for high bandwidth to be able to view square waves where we need, perhaps, 9 times the fundamental frequency.  A 100 MHz scope is marginally capable of displaying a 10 MHz square wave.

... and incapable of displaying a 1Hz signal with 1ns width. In a digital circuit such signals are exactly as important as a 10MHz square wave.

In other words, who cares about the special case of square waves - the only relevant time parameter is the risetime.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline DFCTopic starter

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2019, 09:36:23 am »
You know,I was thinking about this.For what I do,the bandwidth of this scope seems perfectly reasonable.It has
all the features that I've wanted and envied for a long time now.The resolution is also pretty amazing especially
considering its age.Of Course,a modern scope does all this and more but if it suits my needs,why spend money that
could be used for other equipment?At least for now.
I've always had a soft spot for older equipment,I've also always had a soft spot for older women but that is a whole other can
 of worms and the two should not be confused.
Could someone post a link to the TME thread?I have looking but 12 hours night shift takes a toll on the mind.Thanks.
 
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Offline MadTux

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2019, 11:37:33 am »
Remember those Nicolet scopes from years ago, when I bought my first scope. Not so much affordable available back than, I had the choice between Tek 7603/7D20 and some weird Nicolet scope, probably a 4094A. I wisely chose the Tek.

Just looked at the specs, the weird thing with those scopes is that the ADC/digitizer is inside the plugins (unlike e.g. Tek7854), so bandwidth/sample rate depends on what kind of plugin is installed.

Plugin specs are hard to find, the info I've gathered so far:
4175: 8bit,  50MSample/s, 16k memory, 75MHz single ended amp, 100mV-40V/div
4562: 12bit, 2MSample/s, 16k memory, differential amp
4570: 12bit, 10MSample/s, 16k memory, differential amp
4580: 8bit, 200MSample/s, 16k memory, 100MHz single ended amp, 100mV-40V/div
4581: 15bit, 100kSample/s, 16k memory,  differential amp
F43: more (much so) or less useless floppy disk recorder, probably very expensive back then ;D
 
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Offline DFCTopic starter

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 02:56:56 pm »
Dont know.Going off of the manual,it seems the the specs listed in there is what you get right off the bat with just the probes.Add on bits and pieces for this scope I would imagine would be rare and hard to find.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2019, 03:25:49 pm »
You know,I was thinking about this.For what I do,the bandwidth of this scope seems perfectly reasonable.It has
all the features that I've wanted and envied for a long time now.The resolution is also pretty amazing especially
considering its age.Of Course,a modern scope does all this and more but if it suits my needs,why spend money that
could be used for other equipment?At least for now.

Very sane :)

BTW, my standard scope is a 1970s 350MHz Tek 485 :) (And yes, I do have a couple of digitising scopes)

There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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