Author Topic: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware  (Read 3650 times)

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Offline CozzmoTopic starter

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Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« on: June 26, 2020, 10:47:06 am »
Hi All, i'm a sucker for late 90's Nissans and have acquired an original dealer 'Consult' diagnostic unit. I have fixed it up to working condition but i'm now 'on a mission' to try and collect and protect the data that is contained with the 'program cards' that are used on them. They look to be a PCMCIA Flash card on first glance, but looking closer, the first issue is the connector pin count is non-standard. I would really like to find some way to backup/replace the cards as they're hard to find and expensive when i've found them. I have borrowed a card or 2 to do some specific diagnostics on my car but the card i have that is compatible is in German...

I imagine that using the card reader module that comes off the back of the unit is probably going to be the path to reading out the data at some point in time, but that's a fair way down the road.

Anyways, here are a few pics of the stuff, i'm interested to hear what the seasoned professionals think of the hardware and if anyone has ever seen such a PCMCIA style card with this single row connector on it.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 12:15:11 am by Cozzmo »
 

Offline robca

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 11:45:48 pm »
Cool find!

I'm not a "seasoned professional" by any stretch of imagination, but some of the devices in picture 5936 seem to be EPROMs of some sort (unless it's a lighting trick coupled with the low resolution picture). If that's a late 90s diagnostic tool, very likely was designed in the late 80s, and EPROMs were quite common then  (and I used my share)

If they look like there is a quartz window on top and you can see the structure of the chip with a high magnification lens, cover those chips immediately with the darkest material you can find (ideally black stuff *and* aluminum foil. EPROMs are erased by UV and while normally that requires a longish UV lamp exposure to completely erase one, strong light is enough to flip come cells randomly (especially on old devices), forever damaging the content.

Your best bet would be to attach a logic analyzer and start figuring out the protocol. The chip is a 3 to 8 decoder, used to provide the right address to the chips, and that card does't look like any PCMCIA I ever saw. It seems to be a proprietary design like a game cartridge would be. A convenient way to provide rugged data storage at a time when flash storage was not readily available (and provide some level of IP protection, security by obscurity)
 

Offline CozzmoTopic starter

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2020, 09:25:09 am »
Thanks robca,

They definitely look like EPROMs, even the bond wires are visible, uncovered only for the picture then put back as they were of course. This tool was developed in the late 80's for sure. The physical size is the same as a PCMCIA card, its just the pin header that is non-standard (so its not 'actually' a PCMCIA card as such).

Part of the initialisation procedure of the unit when inserting a new card is a download from the card to the units' on board memory so that should provide a pretty good window into how the card is accessed, when i get around to that !
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2021, 01:35:18 pm »
That memory card looks like the same ‘standard’ as the ones used in some Advantest Spectrum Analysers. They have a single row of pins on the connector. This could be an early PCMCIA standard ?  I will do some digging on the Advantest cards as they are more likely to have been discussed on forums than these specialist car diagnostic cards.

Fraser
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2021, 01:38:06 pm »
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 01:41:33 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2021, 02:04:13 pm »
So not an early PCMCIA standard.......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JEIDA_memory_card

It is likely a variation of the casing standard using a single row of pins. The key is to establish what equipments used such as they are not unique in my experience. Once a more common deployment is identified, the pin out may be locatable. No joy on the Advantest front but I will look in my archives.

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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 02:36:06 pm »
Page 196 (PDF reader page no.) onwards of this R3361 service manual details the Advantest Memory card interface  :-+

https://elektrotanya.com/advantest_r3261_r3361_sm.pdf/download.html#dl

It might be worth comparing the pin count (20) and the provided pin usage detail with your card. The Advantest card is read/write SRAM but that will not effect the pin out.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 02:37:41 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 03:16:08 pm »
I have just dug out my Advantest memory card and sadly I think it is different to your card. It has only 20 pins and your pictures show 38 pins on your card :( . Note that your first picture has a problem. When you click on it a picture of an oscilloscope appears !

I attach pictures of the Advantest memory card for reference.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:20:38 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2021, 03:25:05 pm »
Look what I found searching for “38 pin PCMCIA”  ........

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040458368.html

A 38 pin 128K FLASH memory card in a PCMCIA format. Such cards are used in Industrial controllers

38PINS BF128A1-BZC
Specifications:

- Size: 128KB
- Interface: ATA
- Pins: 38-pin
- Package size: Type II PCMCIA
- Voltage: 5.0v operation
- Internal: Flash Disk
- Flash Type: NAND flash Technology
- Speed: Burst Mode
- From to Host: 20MB/sec.
- From to Flash: 8MB/sec.
- Read Speed: Up-to 5MB/sec.
- Write Speed: Up-to 3MB/sec.
- Temperature: -40ºC up-to +85ºC.
- Non-volatile solid-state; no moving parts
- maximizes battery power.
- Data is not lost when power is turned off.
- IDE Mode (No DMA Support): PIO Mode 1,2,3,4.

Further investigation needed though !

Fraser
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Offline Fraser

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« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:39:47 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2021, 03:33:43 pm »
More interesting information that may help ....

http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39225

So we could be looking at a “MACRO-251S” or “MACRO-251P” card

https://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=e201397510

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:37:51 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 03:41:51 pm »
Another interesting page with examples of manufacturers who use the 38 pin cards and the ITT part numbers :-+

https://www.tecsys.de/en/products/storage-solutions/memory-cards/older-card-types

https://www.tecsys.de/en/products/storage-solutions/memory-cards/older-card-types/fujisoku-38-pin

That is enough Googling for me for now !

You need to delve into the Internet fir the MACRO-251 card pin out. Alternatively, look for the service manuals fir the named manufacturers equipment that yes these cards. You may get lucky. It just takes time and patience  :-+

Fraser

The Fujisoku 38-pin memory card is compatible with the "Star Card" from ITT-Cannon. Because of their low power consumption and stable construction, these memory cards have been used in many professional applications.

You can find a corresponding reader- /writer here

The card has not been produced since 2007; however, TecSys has stocks of SRAM cards with a capacity of 128KB (BS128G1-CZ-13) and some ITT Cannon SRAM and Flash cards.
In the table, the available cards are highlighted in yellow:

ITT-Cannon Part Number

Fujisoku Equivalent Part Number

Description


CSC-128K-SM-06

BS128G1-CZ-13

SRAM   128 KByte


CSC-256K-SM-06

BS256G1-CZ-13   

SRAM   256 KByte


CSC-512K-SM-06

BS512G1-CZ-13

SRAM   512 KByte


CSC-001M-SM-06

BS1024G1-CZ-13

SRAM       1 MByte


CSC-256K-F-03

No equivalent

Intel Series 1

Flash   256 KByte


CSC-512K-F-03

No equivalent

Intel Series 1

Flash   512 KByte


CSC-001M-F-03

No equivalent

Intel Series 1

Flash       1 MByte


Example applications: Yokogawa instruments, Thies or GIP, dust measuring device Grimm, stage and lighting systems e.g. Pulsar Masterpiece, MA Lighting Scancommander, Lightcommander, Glory WR200, controller from Stange-Elektronik, Datalogger MeteoLOG TDL 14, Sandiacre TG 320, Ensonic SQ synthesizers.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 03:58:03 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2021, 03:50:47 pm »
The 38 pin card card reader/writer is available but will be very expensive !

https://www.tecsys.de/fileadmin/user_upload/PDFs/LaufwerkeDBs/Fujisoku_Laufwerke_DBs/RW-MULTI8-FUJI_DB_EN_20170220_RH.pdf

Fraser
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Offline CJay

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2021, 04:25:32 pm »
Interestingly Farnell has a little info for that BF128A1-BZC card:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/52560.pdf

And it seems to be used with knitting machines too.

There's a datasheet here:

https://www.premierelect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/fujisoku1.pdf
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2021, 04:40:31 pm »
CJay,

Great work. The datasheet provides the pinout and that can be compared to the OP's card to see if the power rails match. That would be a start for confirming the cards identity in terms of the interface. From the information I have seen, these cards are ATA so a reader should be a DIY possibility. Whether standard flash card reading software can cope with the cards format is another matter though. I had to buy an OMNIDrive to read a Linear Flash PCMCIA card but hopefully the OP's card has no such special needs.

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/ata.htm

I have added the datasheet for future reference in case the source disappears.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 07:17:24 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2021, 05:37:21 pm »
Note the 74HC138 demultiplexer IC in the 'mystery' memory card. Tracing the 74HC138 input pins to the 38 pin connector may help prove the identity of the interface and card.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 05:39:01 pm by Fraser »
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Offline CJay

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2021, 07:11:44 pm »
I don't think they're anything more than a simple memory cartridge, I think you could read them out by simply stepping through the address space and 'capturing' the data lines.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2021, 08:07:02 pm »
I don't think they're anything more than a simple memory cartridge, I think you could read them out by simply stepping through the address space and 'capturing' the data lines.
Based on the Fujisoku pinout Fraser posted above, that seems to be the case.
8 data lines= 1 byte
20 address lines= 1M words
Largest capacity card shown: 1MB SRAM or Flash
 

Offline larry104

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2021, 09:01:09 pm »
Does anyone know if there are still connectors available anywhere? It's single row 38 pin, 1.27mm pitch. I have an old card reader from CardWize (Card Genie 38 Pin) but no driver or any description. So, my plan was to get a connector and use a RASPI to read the card. For my application I only need 15 address bits so I have enough GPIO's.
 

Offline CozzmoTopic starter

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2021, 12:09:46 am »
WOW you guys are AWESOME ! Sorry i haven't been back to this thread, i received no email notifications and don't get back here often.

I'll wade through all this great information and compare/check pinouts to confirm and report back in the next couple of days !

Thanks once again.
 

Offline CozzmoTopic starter

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2021, 12:16:08 am »
I have just dug out my Advantest memory card and sadly I think it is different to your card. It has only 20 pins and your pictures show 38 pins on your card :( . Note that your first picture has a problem. When you click on it a picture of an oscilloscope appears !

I attach pictures of the Advantest memory card for reference.

Fraser

Fixed the picture. Also attached to this post.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2021, 12:25:25 am »
Hm, 1.27mm or 1.25?  Subtle, but should make the difference over that many pins.

If the latter, there may be some JST parts around that can be hacked, or maybe even mate.

If the former, can you tell if the pin sizes are normal for that type (fine pitch) header?  Might be any old pin strip from Samtec etc. works.

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Offline CozzmoTopic starter

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2021, 09:26:05 am »
The connector pitch matches a standard PCMCIA card pitch.
 

Offline gweilo8888

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2022, 10:28:32 am »
The Fujisoku 38-pin memory card is compatible with the "Star Card" from ITT-Cannon. Because of their low power consumption and stable construction, these memory cards have been used in many professional applications.

I just stumbled upon this thread from a Google search prompted by one such application. ITT-Cannon Star Cards were apparently used by the Williams Formula One team in the early 1990s for at least their iconic, active suspension FW14B and FW15C as you can see in this video:

 

Offline bkw

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Re: Old automotive Diagnostic hardware
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2022, 01:19:45 am »
This looks very similar to the card used in the TANDY WP-2 external ram/rom card slot.
It's NOT the same, I can already see at least 2 things that remove all doubt, but it looks like the physical connector is just a different variation from the same line, and the electrical interface for most all of these sorts of cards are usually very simple, different pinouts but usually the same standard signals, not a fancy protocol like ide or anything, just a plain sram/rom bus connection with just a few extra simple bits like a card-detect pin etc.

I have some info collected here http://tandy.wiki/WP-2
Most of that doesn't apply, but there is a datasheet for the connectors.

http://tandy.wiki/File:JC20-B38S-F1.pdf

It shows several variations of the same style of connector and they look like they match all the different styles in this thread so far.

There are 20-pin versions that look like they match the 20-pin card for one of the units early in this thread.

In particular from there, JC20-D38S-F1-A1 looks like it might be the 38-pin connector for the 38-pin cards with the pins off-center on the edge.

That connector is only 1.7mm thick, so if that were soldered on the edge of a 0.4mm pcb like the drawing says, and and then place a 1.6mm blank pcb or 3d print or other spacer material over or under that, you'd have a stack that probably matches the 38 pin card edge shown in a pic earlier in this thread. If the spacer is on top instead of underneath, then you can have room for big components like a battery holder like in the WP-2 compatible card I made.

https://github.com/bkw777/WP-2_IC_Card

Except of course you can't get those original connectors any more that I can see. The connector I'm using for my WP-2 card is 3mm thick, so it's too thick to use for the off-center style this card needs. But I did find some other cheap 1.27mm pitch connectors that were 1.8 to 2.0mm wide.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799958800050.html

Actually that one jst says 1.8 so, maybe good enough and don't even worry about it, but others say 2.0mm, and that is just different enough that you can probably still use it but need to deal with the difference somehow like sanding it down a little maybe.

One problem though, I tried using these for my own card design just because they are so much cheaper than the Samtec part I'm using, but the metal parts inside the connector are so loose-fitting that the pins hit the edges of the metal parts when you try to mate the connectors, and it can take a lot of wiggling to get the card onto the pins. It's super agrevating and you risk damaging the pins in the slot, so I use the Samtec part even though they are about $10 *each*.

Aside from that problem, you could probably create a new ram card from scratch starting with the WP-2 IC card just for the board outline, change the connector position a little to account for it's different depth than the one I'm using (there's already a footprint in the project local library that shows where to put the connector and board edge cut relative to the full outer card body, so that the pins do not poke too far into the connector when the card bottoms out in the slot. The connector can not be simply flush with the face of the card, it must be recessed). The schematic for your card is probably hardly any different from this one for WP-2, just with the pinout arranged in some other order. Essentially just a simple standard sram/eprom/eeprom bus connection with a few extra simple bits for the battery, backfeed protection, cap for battery-change grace period, pullup/downs for chip-select when the card is removed, and you may want to add a spdt switch on /WE between /WE from the bus and VMEM. My card doesn't have that because it doesn't work on a WP-2 (WP-2 fails to read the card at all is /WE is disconnected). But basically nothing fancy going on in these things. Once you get the pinout for the socket, you can make the whole card easy.

You'd need a thin pcb like 0.4mm just like for the original connector, not the 1.2mm my card needs and definitely not a standard 1.6mm. Might get away with 0.6mm .
 


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