Ordering components in Europe, digikey and import tax

[Mihemine]

Hello,
I'm a student in Belgium, and would like to order some parts for a project, but I need enough to make 100 of my pcb, so ebay won't cut it,
I prepared everything with digikey but they ship out of the US, and import tax is not clear ( It seems like I would have to pay 21% extra ), farnell requires a vat number ( that I don't have ) and mouser is way more expensive for the stuff I want.

Where do you Europeans buy your stuff and how do you deal with the vat ? My school buys off farnell and other sites but they have a vat number :/
This process has been a pain, because every site seems to have some problem or another, and out of sheer irritation I ordered enough components off of ebay to at least test my pcb, but it cost me 10x more then it should have, and they estimate shipping to be 3 weeks :s

PS: I would like to order about 1600€ of stuff so 21% vat is a pretty large amount to just pile on top, especially since I'm the one putting this out of my pocket

Thank you !

[LazyJack]

Well. The purpose of the VAT is that someone pays it. If you have a VAT number, then you are probably a company, who will pay the VAT when selling the product to an end user. If you don't have a VAT number, then you are likely and end user and you pay the tax to the seller (who in turn pays it to the state). (VAT is a bit more complex, escpecially when dealing cross country trade, but you get the general idea.)
If it were easy to evade paying tax, everyone would do it, don't you think?
So, no, there is no easy legal way to evade paying VAT.

[LazyJack]

Afaik Farnell has European warehouse and they indicate if the part will ship from there. Generally you pay the VAT of the country that you are in, where the goods are sent to.

[fubar.gr]

TME.eu are based and ship from the EU (Poland I think)

[Koen]

You'll pay 21% + a fixed fee to UPS on or before delivery.

[Wirehead]

RS components send stuff from Germany and UK warehouses as well.

[Wirehead]

Also take a look at this: http://onderdelen.muxtronics.nl/about.html
Some guy made this (and farnell approves), this enables ordering with them without a VAT in BE/NL.

[bitwelder]

I'm afraid that if the components you need are made outside EU, one way or another you will end up paying VAT+ customs duties, either directly when buying from the extra-EU shop or indirectly with the higher price of the EU importer (which is charging his VAT and customs import costs).
Sooo... pick your poison 

[JPortici]

you can't evade paying VAT.

farnell, mouser, rs don't charge import duties in europe. if you order a part that is in the UK or US warehouse you will have to pay a premium on the order (from RS and Farnell). Digikey i don't know

[PartialDischarge]

Well. The purpose of the VAT is that someone pays it. If you have a VAT number, then you are probably a company, who will pay the VAT when selling the product to an end user. If you don't have a VAT number, then you are likely and end user and you pay the tax to the seller (who in turn pays it to the state). (VAT is a bit more complex, escpecially when dealing cross country trade, but you get the general idea.)
If it were easy to evade paying tax, everyone would do it, don't you think?
So, no, there is no easy legal way to evade paying VAT.

I would simply like to have the price of what I'm ordering told to me up front, and digikey can't tell me how much that would be ( how do I calculate that precisely ? if it's 21% here and say 12 over there then do I pay the difference ? or the 21% straight up ? or the cumulated amount ? )

Mouser will give you the total amount upfront including taxes, and free shipping over 50€ orders.
Not sure why you say that mouser is the most expensive, when they are usually cheaper than digikey (although not in every part...)

[Kilrah]

Most sellers I know in Europe are so much more expensive that you're still better off ordering from the US and paying shipping+VAT than ordering locally.

[pyroesp]

Ask your teachers if they can buy it from farnell and you pay them/the school back.
I've done it a few times when needing stuff from farnell, altough never bought stuff for 1600EUR.

Most sellers I know in Europe are so much more expensive that you're still better off ordering from the US and paying shipping+VAT than ordering locally.

+1

PS: We have a few sellers in BE, but don't even think about buying anything from them. The prices are just ridiculous.

[JPortici]

just buy from the distributors.
again, i don't know about arrow or digikey but every other one won't charge you for import duties. My preferred distributor is mouser (best website IMHO and most of the time better prices for lower quantities)
i heard somewhere that digikey will break your balls over anything because they are paranoid americans
(an uk reseller told that he had to sign a release that stated he wasn't a terrorist or working for terrorists because he bought a reel of MCUs)

[janoc]

Most sellers I know in Europe are so much more expensive that you're still better off ordering from the US and paying shipping+VAT than ordering locally.

Well, that is maybe because you are in Switzerland. Switzerland is not EU member and I remember having to pay customs and what not very often there thanks to that.

Re ordering from the US - quite doubt it. Maybe for big ticket items where the shipping and customs are a small part of the overall ticket, but for components? Unless the Switzerland has special agreements with the US or lets you skip paying VAT on import, then you will be charged the VAT on delivery anyway and the customs + processing fees of UPS or whoever the company uses will often wipe out any savings you could have made by buying for US prices. For the major distributors the difference between the US and EU prices is mostly the EUR/USD exchange rate + VAT (i.e. the prices are very much the same):

Random example:   STM32F030C6T6/1pc
Mouser US: $1.74
Mouser EU: 1.60€ (without VAT)
Digikey US: $1.69
Digikey FR: 1.59€ (without VAT)

So I don't really see the point in ordering from the US.

[PartialDischarge]

janoc, there is no mouser EU. Its just a webpage, the company and the warehouse is in the US. So whatever you order from mouser will have a VAT added for you after that price you post.

There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding about vat, customs etc...
Let me just say that thankfully mouser will pay the taxes for you in your home country, and no other import charges will be applied.
However if another company ships from the US vis lets say fedex, and you only pay the shipping and the items, you will have to pay at home the for the taxes plus the customs+fedex fees.

So when someone like mouser has agreements which each govt (and they have ppl workin in each country just for that) you JUST pay the vat.
Other companies that dont have such infrastructure let "others" handle the import fees. And that others will make you pay not only the vat but additional,fees

[janoc]

janoc, there is no mouser EU. Its just a webpage, the company and the warehouse is in the US. So whatever you order from mouser will have a VAT added for you after that price you post.

Of course, I know that. The reason I was posting the prices without VAT is because otherwise it is difficult to compare them (the tax is different in every EU country - a Dane will pay more with their 25% VAT vs a Frenchman with 20% VAT or a Swiss who has only 8% VAT) and companies most often don't really pay it anyway (they pass it on to their client).

As a private client I would get about 20% on top of those posted prices French VAT + shipping & handling (about 20 euro if I buy for less than 30 euro or so at Mouser, I believe). From my point of view Mouser acts as an EU company, how exactly they handle it, whether through a warehouse in Europe or through some sort of arrangement with the government I don't really care about. They don't charge any import fees/customs to me.

Farnell and RS are the same story as Mouser for me, plus they ship from EU warehouses (except for items from the US stock - which costs extra), so I get only the 20% French VAT added as a private client + shipping & handling. No customs or anything like that, from my point of view they are local (EU) companies, same as if I was buying something from the mom&pop convenience store at the corner.

The only exception from the major ones is Digikey. Digikey doesn't collect VAT in France directly, but it will be collected by UPS/DHL (or whoever they use to ship today) on delivery, along with customs (most likely none for components due to low total value) and then the UPS/DHL customs handling fee (a separate bill about a week later). That is the only case I know about where the final client has to deal with these details themselves. However, it depends by country - in the UK they handle it differently, same as in Denmark where I have used Digikey quite often without issues. Maybe it has changed in the meantime, I haven't ordered anything from Digikey in several years due to the treatment they gave me.

There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding about vat, customs etc...
Let me just say that thankfully mouser will pay the taxes for you in your home country, and no other import charges will be applied.

There is no misunderstanding, I am not arguing with you. Please read the comment I have been replying to - which was Kilrah's about the EU vs US prices. Trust me, I know what I am talking about - I have been ordering components and paying these bills for more than a decade, in 4 different countries.

[Kilrah]

Well, that is maybe because you are in Switzerland. Switzerland is not EU member and I remember having to pay customs and what not very often there thanks to that.

No, I mentioned Europe because I operate outside of Switzertland for some projects too. In Switzerland we're actually in a better position due to the lower VAT.

Re ordering from the US - quite doubt it.

Random example:   STM32F030C6T6/1pc
Mouser US: $1.74
Mouser EU: 1.60€ (without VAT)
Digikey US: $1.69
Digikey FR: 1.59€ (without VAT)

So I don't really see the point in ordering from the US.

Let me rephrase that, I meant ordering from US companies. Ordering from Mouser/DK US or EU is the same, it comes form the US with US pricing. The point is that European-based distributors will usually have higher prices on the same things even after all respective taxes and fees are considered e.g for that same part Distrelec (€2.01 without tax), Conrad (€4.31 with tax), Farnell (1.86€ without tax), RS components (site down, can't check...) etc. That's what the OP's question was about.

[Ice-Tea]

To the OP: if the VAT # with Farnell is the issue, I could order them for you and invoice them with the VAT added.
Would probably have to add 1-2% in order not to get in trouble with the bookkeeper. But if it helps...

[Ice-Tea]

3945 Ham

Just to be clear: I'm not into this to make a buck, I'm trying to help out a student, a member of this community.

If you need 5 resistors and a bc587 (so to speak): there are still a few component shops around (Rato in Antwerpen, Gotron in Hasselt and others) but for project/quantities where Farnell makes sense I'm willing to help you out.

[larsdenmark]

Digikey.be lists a phone number, email address and has support for live chat. Why not ask them directly?

[b_force]

Farnell has definitely a warehouse in Europe. (if you're a regular customer you can even get your things the next day)

A guy from tweakers.net made a website where private people/non-business from NL and BE can place an order.
http://onderdelen.muxtronics.nl/

[Koen]

Farnell.be mentions "If you are not a company, please order from our partner sinuss.be". Crazy expensive though.

Anyway, give a call first to Farnell sales in Grace-Hollogne, they'll be interested if the order is ~1600EUR.

[b_force]

Farnell.be mentions "If you are not a company, please order from our partner sinuss.be". Crazy expensive though.

Anyway, give a call first to Farnell sales in Grace-Hollogne, they'll be interested if the order is ~1600EUR.

Yes, sinuss is very expensive.
For that reason, use the link I posted before.

[JPortici]

mouser us vs mouser eu is just USD vs EUR for currency

they will have a european or national office, as every other distributor.
if you have any question ask them, that's their job, to make any thing for you to become their customer.

(also, farnell has same day shipping betore 17, period. if you are a business UPS will deliver before 11-12 of the following morning, period. for other customers ups delivers before 2 o'clock)
Anyway, i remember having troubles ordering from farnell: some years ago, if you didn't have a VAT number you couldn't order from them at all. that's one of the reasons i made mouser my main distributor, along with the fact that farnell has very shitty prices for prototype quantities. simillar shit with RS for the first orders.

When you order from mouser the delivery will start at most the next day and will be at your doorstep in 3 working days tops.

[The Soulman]

Where do you Europeans buy your stuff and how do you deal with the vat ?

www.reichelt.de
www.conrad.de

Together they have most of the components for me to repair audio stuff, for other stuff or larger quantities I use
farnell, for small quantities not really interesting.

In NL a company (with a vat number) doesn't have to pay vat when buying stuff in Germany, if the same rules apply for Belgium maybe you could start your own company?
But then if you sell your product you would charge your costumer the vat and pay it to the nice people in Brussels..