PC performance correlated with relative humidity?

[ultraknur]

Hi all,

For a very long time I am facing a problem that seems to be unfixable (at least on my side). My high-end PC and its peripherials don't work like it should in means of responsiveness and smoothness. I don't think I would have realized the problem was happening if I hadn't experienced in gaming cafe what games should actually look like on a high-end gaming PC. From the first clicks on my brand new PC I knew, that something was wrong. It's not reacting fast enough, also screen is not smooth as 240Hz should be and gameplay is off, like not synced with a server (error correction causing delay/input lag?). I've changed every part of my PC, even chassis which is already ridiculous, but so far nothing helped. After I realized that it's not about PC components, internet connection and settings, I started to look for the cause in the electricity provided to my building. I tried to make a choke with multiple ferrite cores of material 31 separated for live and neutral. At the beginning I could feel the difference somehow but the issue came back. I tried Schaffner RFI filter but it didn't help at all. What is interesting I was able to find correlation between how my PC works and relative humidity which as we know is pretty harmful for transformers. Yesterday I spoke to my buddy that something was different at 14:00, for a long time (since summer and dry weather) I've never had such a good gaming experience but then I checked RH in my city and surprise:



This is not the first time I noticed it.

I commissioned my power company to perform electricity quality measurements and everything looks good except 15th harmonics which is still within the limits.



I rule out:
- PSU issues - tried 2 models with 80+ gold cert. They had way too much of power output rating,
- Monitor issue - tested 3 with 144Hz refresh rate and 2 with 240Hz, weren't even close to demanded smoothness,
- GPUs issue - tested GTX1660, RTX2060, RTX3070, no changes beside framerate but even 500fps games are not smooth like a silk with 240Hz,
- RH in my apartament - it's usually 60%,

That may sound like a madness, but it took 2 years to notice that correlation. Does anyone suspect what might be the cause of the problem?

[Nominal Animal]

Have you tried playing in (limited) natural light, to exclude the effects of lighting issues?  Fluorescent lights in particular do flicker; so do many LED lights.  You might be experiencing sensory issues due to the almost subliminal flicker.  That is, that the jitter you observe isn't in the hardware, it is in your perception.
In particular, if you have "ambient" LED lights behind your display, those often suffer from flickering issues.

[radiolistener]

There are two things that can affect your PC performance:
1) air with different humidity has different thermal conductivity, so it leads to different cooling efficiency
2) air humidity depends on environment temperature, higher temperature leads to worse cooling efficiency

At a glance your issue looks like overheating issue. When CPU temperature exceeds some limit, it enable protection which stops clocking internal circuits to cool down the chip die. As result, the speed of CPU slows down. This state is known as "throtling".

Try to measure temperature of your CPU and GPU heatsinks when you catch lags. If its high, then this is the reason for lagging. Just improve your cooling system to solve this. 

[The Soulman]

Do you have a solid earth/ground connection?
My pc+monitor don't like being un-grounded in a high humidity environment as the screen would glitch to black or won't turn on at all because of a corrupt hdmi signal.
Any equipment with a metal chassis should never be connected to a un-earthed outlet, but because of a house renovation I had to move the pc a few times, including to a old (soon to replaced) socket without earth.

[ultraknur]

This sounds like a C3/C6 sleep state issue.

Could you elaborate? How to deal with that?

Have you tried playing in (limited) natural light, to exclude the effects of lighting issues?  Fluorescent lights in particular do flicker; so do many LED lights.  You might be experiencing sensory issues due to the almost subliminal flicker.  That is, that the jitter you observe isn't in the hardware, it is in your perception.
In particular, if you have "ambient" LED lights behind your display, those often suffer from flickering issues.

That would make sense, but it is present with light off and on. I was considering my perception because my senses are way to sensitive but that actually helped me to see, that something is wrong. It is not normal, that 144Hz monitor in gaming cafe is incomparably smoother than 240Hz in my place.

There are two things that can affect your PC performance:
1) air with different humidity has different thermal conductivity, so it leads to different cooling efficiency
2) air humidity depends on environment temperature, higher temperature leads to worse cooling efficiency

At a glance your issue looks like overheating issue. When CPU temperature exceeds some limit, it enable protection which stops clocking internal circuits to cool down the chip die. As result, the speed of CPU slows down. This state is known as "throtling".

Try to measure temperature of your CPU and GPU heatsinks when you catch lags. If its high, then this is the reason for lagging. Just improve your cooling system to solve this. 

It's all true but I excluded that long time ago. I use 360mm AiO and temps are fine and never had any issues even with demanding games on ultra settings. RH in my apartment doesn't exceed 70%.

Do you have a solid earth/ground connection?
My pc+monitor don't like being un-grounded in a high humidity environment as the screen would glitch to black or won't turn on at all because of a corrupt hdmi signal.
Any equipment with a metal chassis should never be connected to a un-earthed outlet, but because of a house renovation I had to move the pc a few times, including to a old (soon to replaced) socket without earth.

PC and monitor are connected to the outlet with L and PEN (neutral is connected to ground pin). I had kitchen renovation and there are outlets with separated ground and neutral. I tried them and nothing helped. I suspect micro surges in the transfomer due to increased conductivity environment caused by RH but most likely I will be never able to prove it. Departing from the RH matter I see huge improvement at 4-5 AM, especially on Mondays so there is also a chance, that somebody is using harmful electrical devices in his flat.

[wraper]

After I realized that it's not about PC components, internet connection and settings, I started to look for the cause in the electricity provided to my building.

Mains electricity has no way to influence computer/monitor performance in any way. Everything is powered by switch-mode PSU, where input voltage and frequency has no impact on output voltage which powers the electronics.

I tried to make a choke with multiple ferrite cores of material 31 separated for live and neutral. At the beginning I could feel the difference somehow but the issue came back.

You fooled yourself. The same way as audiofools fool themselves with magic crystals voodoo and $1000 power cables. They feel they somehow improve audio quality, yet there is no actual difference. Brain works in a way that a high price gimmick can fool perception, even though there is no actual difference.
The issue most likely is either problem with your perception due to some internal reason in your body. Or some external influence like flickering light already mentioned.

[ultraknur]

After I realized that it's not about PC components, internet connection and settings, I started to look for the cause in the electricity provided to my building.

Mains electricity has no way to influence computer/monitor performance in any way. Everything is powered by switch-mode PSU, where input voltage and frequency has no impact on output voltage which powers the electronics.

I tried to make a choke with multiple ferrite cores of material 31 separated for live and neutral. At the beginning I could feel the difference somehow but the issue came back.

You fooled yourself. The same way as audiofools fool themselves with magic crystals voodoo and $1000 power cables. They feel they somehow improve audio quality, yet there is no actual difference. Brain works in a way that a high price gimmick can fool perception, even though there is no actual difference.
The issue most likely is either problem with your perception due to some internal reason in your body. Or some external influence like flickering light already mentioned.

Why are you so sure, that any kind of sine wave distortions can be easily filtered by PSU?

Like I mentioned I experience huge desynchronization with any game server, I would say it's like playing with ping 300-400 ms however it shows 30 ms. Anything what appears on my screen is deviated from what happened on server like a hell. I can even see that by watching demos. It's not about lag compensation or interpolation or anything because it complies to players with much higher ping than mine. Doesn't matter what ISP, it happens with any. Propably my PC is not able to process the informations fast enough due to error correction code due to distorted current causing bit errors.

[Nominal Animal]

Why are you so sure, that any kind of sine wave distortions can be easily filtered by PSU?

The power supply converts to DC, mainly +5V and +12V, and the motherboard DC-DC converters down to +3.3V, and whatever +1.1V/+1.8V/etc voltages the RAM and CPU want –– they're usually programmable.

Distortions don't degrade performance.  If the distortions are large enough to affect the PSU output, your computer would be unstable and crash ("bluescreen", or whatever it is called nowadays).

Like I mentioned I experience huge desynchronization with any game server, I would say it's like playing with ping 300-400 ms however it shows 30 ms.

That means your network connection is wonky.  Can you see the issues when playing offline, without using any network connection at all?

Propably my PC is not able to process the informations fast enough due to error correction code due to distorted current causing bit errors.

That is not possible.  The hardware does not work that way.

Again, if there are problems that get through your power supply, they will cause your computer to crash.  Current x86-64 hardware (running Intel or AMD processors) does not have the facility to even slow down in case there is a power supply issues; it either works, or doesn't and crashes (locks up, most often).

[ultraknur]

Why are you so sure, that any kind of sine wave distortions can be easily filtered by PSU?

The power supply converts to DC, mainly +5V and +12V, and the motherboard DC-DC converters down to +3.3V, and whatever +1.1V/+1.8V/etc voltages the RAM and CPU want –– they're usually programmable.

Distortions don't degrade performance.  If the distortions are large enough to affect the PSU output, your computer would be unstable and crash ("bluescreen", or whatever it is called nowadays).

Like I mentioned I experience huge desynchronization with any game server, I would say it's like playing with ping 300-400 ms however it shows 30 ms.

That means your network connection is wonky.  Can you see the issues when playing offline, without using any network connection at all?

Propably my PC is not able to process the informations fast enough due to error correction code due to distorted current causing bit errors.

That is not possible.  The hardware does not work that way.

Again, if there are problems that get through your power supply, they will cause your computer to crash.  Current x86-64 hardware (running Intel or AMD processors) does not have the facility to even slow down in case there is a power supply issues; it either works, or doesn't and crashes (locks up, most often).

It does work like that according to -> https://passat.crhc.illinois.edu/hpca_15_cam.pdf + https://scholar.google.pl/scholar?hl=pl&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1&q=error+correction+code+latency&btnG=
Modern PCs don't crash because of error correction systems, bsods are not that common nowdays.
My internet connection cannot be wonky, because I know many decent players from my city using same provider and they don't experience any issues at all and I saw it personally. It's not about making conclusions after two or three games but these observations are from 3 years.
I can't really tell you if desync happens offline against bots however inputs are as slow as online.

[magic]

Take the PC to one of your friends with known-good network, humidity and electricity. See if it performs there.

That may sound like a madness

No disagreement

[ultraknur]

Take the PC to one of your friends with known-good network, humidity and electricity. See if it performs there.

That may sound like a madness

No disagreement

If it would perform like it should, what will be the explanation?

Yeah it is madness but I know dozens of players trying to deal with it. One of my buddy claims that it's fixed after disconnecting old FM/AM radio. By looking at this article https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180 nothing is going to surprise me.

[TMM]

You say that your PC doesn't work as it should but your measure of its performance is purely subjective?

There is literally zero point even considering chances things like power line quality until you have an objective measure of your PC performance. Perhaps run a benchmark like 3Dmark when you perceive a period where performance is poor and run it again when you perceive the performance as better to see if there is an actual difference in performance or if you're just imagining it.

Also if you're playing games online the performance of your internet is going weigh in heavily into the smoothness of gameplay. It is quite plausible that weather affects the performance of internet hardware, especially internet connections that use long copper phone lines (ADSL/xDSL), or wireless. Perhaps also, certain weather conditions are more conducive to people playing online games or browsing the internet therefore internet performance suffers during those weather conditions. If it's raining, people are probably more likely to be inside using the internet compared to a nice sunny day for example.

You should be able to objectively measure your internet performance with a site like speedtest.net
The smoothness of games is most likely to be affected by latency/ping instead of speed(mbps), since online games don't require many mbps.
If you open command prompt and run "ping -t www.google.com" it will continuously show the latency in ms between your computer and google. You can change www.google.com to any ip address - such as the IP address of an online games server you play on - to see how stable the connection is to the server. If it remains at 20ms or less then you'd expect a very smooth gaming experience. It it jumps up to 100ms or more you might perceive some slowness. 200ms or more and you will probably experience lag and jerkiness.

If you play games against others on a LAN at an internet cafe then the latency will be <10ms at all times, so you don't experience the lag and jerkiness that you do playing on the internet.

Also look at getting a new mouse for your computer if you haven't tried a different one. Entry level mice are actually noticeably less responsive than proper gaming mice if you play first person shooters.

[magic]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180

I wonder if it's the owner of the TV set who should have been embarrassed, or the ISP, or most likely both

But anyway, leaving aside the possibility that high end gaming is the new high end audio , network glitches (particularly if nothing bad ever happens in single player games), software problems or aggressive power saving are definitely things that should be considered before humidity, and frankly you would be better off asking on some computer/games/etc forum.

As for mains distortion, forget it. There are three levels of regulation along the way: active PFC, down to 12V, down to ~1V near the CPU/GPU. The sine waveform of mains voltage is actually more of a problem than any distortion.

[ultraknur]

You say that your PC doesn't work as it should but your measure of its performance is purely subjective?

There is literally zero point even considering chances things like power line quality until you have an objective measure of your PC performance. Perhaps run a benchmark like 3Dmark when you perceive a period where performance is poor and run it again when you perceive the performance as better to see if there is an actual difference in performance or if you're just imagining it.

Also if you're playing games online the performance of your internet is going weigh in heavily into the smoothness of gameplay. It is quite plausible that weather affects the performance of internet hardware, especially internet connections that use long copper phone lines (ADSL/xDSL), or wireless. Perhaps also, certain weather conditions are more conducive to people playing online games or browsing the internet therefore internet performance suffers during those weather conditions. If it's raining, people are probably more likely to be inside using the internet compared to a nice sunny day for example.

Yes, unfortunately it's purely subjective but I trust for my senses and perception. I don't have access to professional measuring equipment, even oscope. Like I wrote in first post I wouldn't have realized the problem is happening if I hadn't experienced perfect gameplay in gaming cafe. It is pointless to do any tests with benchmarks because the problem are slowed down inputs (click -> processing -> appearance on the screen) and degraded monitor refresh rate, not the performance counted with scores. My current internet connection is FTTB so interference through the fiber is excluded but still ISP's routers may be affected.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180

I wonder if it's the owner of the TV set who should have been embarrassed, or the ISP, or most likely both

But anyway, leaving aside the possibility that high end gaming is the new high end audio , network glitches (particularly if nothing bad ever happens in single player games), software problems or aggressive power saving are definitely things that should be considered before humidity, and frankly you would be better off asking on some computer/games/etc forum.

As for mains distortion, forget it. There are three levels of regulation along the way: active PFC, down to 12V, down to ~1V near the CPU/GPU. The sine waveform of mains voltage is actually more of a problem than any distortion.

Power saving settings are off. I can't count how many combinations of different settings I tried but I can admit one thing - fresh format gives a relief for one day and the same claims a lot of other players I meet.

[Nominal Animal]

Propably my PC is not able to process the informations fast enough due to error correction code due to distorted current causing bit errors.

That is not possible.  The hardware does not work that way.

Again, if there are problems that get through your power supply, they will cause your computer to crash.  Current x86-64 hardware (running Intel or AMD processors) does not have the facility to even slow down in case there is a power supply issues; it either works, or doesn't and crashes (locks up, most often).

It does work like that according to -> https://passat.crhc.illinois.edu/hpca_15_cam.pdf + https://scholar.google.pl/scholar?hl=pl&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1&q=error+correction+code+latency&btnG=
Modern PCs don't crash because of error correction systems, bsods are not that common nowdays.

Those links are utterly irrelevant.  First, because current crop of AMD and Intel processors used on typical gaming computers do not even support error correction (ECC) for main memory.  Second, the latency caused by error correction codes is constant; they are not "switched on and off" as needed.

Simply put, error correction codes cause a constant slowdown.  Whether they do correct an error or not, does not affect the time taken.

My internet connection cannot be wonky, because I know many decent players from my city using same provider and they don't experience any issues at all and I saw it personally.

Incorrect.  Depending on what kind of service you use –– LTE, ADSL, DOCSIS, Ethernet to the premises ––, a borderline device on your end (either in your apartment, or if you use ADSL, DOCSIS, or Ethernet to the premises, the wiring or the switch in your building) can explain the observed connectivity issues.

For example, I happen to have Ethernet to the premises, i.e. an Ethernet trunk switch and switchboard in my building, with the Ethernet ports exposed in my electrical panel.  I use a short patch cable to connect that to one of the four Ethernet connectors around my apartment.  The building is connected to a local junction via fiberoptics (a fiberoptic switch for this neighborhood), and from there to the national trunk via further fiberoptics.

If I use a router or switch and it glitches, or the router in my building has a glitch, a typical symptom is a lot of lost packets.  The ping time –– or more properly, round-trip time –– seems okay, but the actual problem is that too many packets are lost, so that retransmissions occur often, and that increases the observed ping time 2× to N×.  (Nasty internet service provides also insert RST packets, which disconnects an established TCP connection, to reduce the bandwidth used by heavy users.)

The test comparing your gaming setup performance when offline (and that means disconnected cables, not just "I'm not using the net right now"), to when online, is all you need.

If the problems are only fully reproducible when online, then it is your particular internet connection at fault.  It does not mean that your internet service provider is shit, or that your friends elsewhere in the same city using the same internet service provider should see the same issues, because the issue could just be faulty hardware.  Or a low-quality optical connection in one of the switches.  A proper network test by an engineer would pinpoint the issue.

You could test TCP and UDP packet loss to a remote server, to check the exact round-trip times and percentage of lost packets; both raw, and when tunneled (encrypted).  I don't know what software you'd use on Windows, because I don't use Windows, and I myself would check those things with code I'd whip up myself in a few minutes.

however inputs are as slow as online.

You use USB for your gaming controllers, right?  I wonder if your Windows setup respects the USB HID 1ms interval, or forces a longer one.

Basically, USB HID, Human Interface Device, is a way for each keyboard/mouse/joystick/gamepad to request the host computer to reserve N 64-byte slots per second, with the maximum being N=1000, or one slot every millisecond.  This yields at most one millisecond latency per event – change in joystick orientation, button state, keypress or release, mouse movement, etc.  However, the operating system, in this case Windows, can refuse, and only give the device fewer slots per second than it requests; for example, 16 slots, which yields 62.5 millisecond latencies, which is easily observed.

I do not know how to verify this in Windows.  It can be due to hardware –– too many HID devices on the same root USB port ––, or it can be a configuration thing (although I do not remember there ever being such a configuration knob for Windows).  If you are using a long chain of USB hubs ending with a single USB cable to your motherboard, or perhaps two using stacked ports, split them, so that your controllers are connected to different root USB ports on your motherboard.  This ensures there is maximum number of HID slots available.

(I don't know which software you use in Windows to explore the USB tree.  In Linux, the /sys/bus/usb/ pseudo-tree contains this information.  USBView?)

In Linux, the USB traffic is easily tracked and dumped using Wireshark, and a snapshot with timestamps will quickly tell if there is a hardware or USB issue.  A quick web search says USBPcap should be able to do the same in Windows.  Checking the interval between consecutive events from the same controller will tell if this indeed is the cause for the input latency.  The timestamps will have "noise" because the software does not record the timestamp at the exact moment the packet is received (there is a small delay until one of the processor cores gets to handle the incoming packet).

For example, if the problem was that for some reason, a controller was only given 32 slots per second (i.e. 1000/32 = 31.25 milliseconds intervals between events), and an event occurred at time 236.220115 seconds, all events from the device would occur at time 236.220115+K/32 seconds (plus minus say 0.001000 seconds), where K is an integer.

[TMM]

Yes, unfortunately it's purely subjective but I trust for my senses and perception. I don't have access to professional measuring equipment, even oscope. Like I wrote in first post I wouldn't have realized the problem is happening if I hadn't experienced perfect gameplay in gaming cafe. It is pointless to do any tests with benchmarks because the problem are slowed down inputs (click -> processing -> appearance on the screen) and degraded monitor refresh rate, not the performance counted with scores. My current internet connection is FTTB so interference through the fiber is excluded but still ISP's routers may be affected.

You don't need electrical engineering equipment to investigate this problem. What you're trying to do is akin to working out why the engine in your car isn't running right by performing metallurgy on the engine block.

Years ago as a teenager I was a 'gamer' and troubleshooted problems like this without any knowledge of electrical engineering. The first question I'd ask is, do you experience the poor performance when playing games offline? If yes, then you can tentatively rule out the internet as a source of problems. Next things to try:
-Try a different mouse and keyboard
-Make sure you have the correct drivers installed, especially for your mouse and for your graphics card. Also try an older version of graphics card driver - the latest driver may have a bug.
-Turn down the graphics settings in your game. Try VSYNC on and off if your game has the option.
-Make sure your CPU isn't throttling because it's getting too hot

[MK14]

fresh format gives a relief for one day and the same claims a lot of other players I meet.

Which would point to software, not hardware being the real problem. Consider the opposite situation. Let's say your hardware really was faulty in same way, and messing up your gaming experience. A fresh format, shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, if it does, it tends to point to software (drivers, windows, etc), being the real problem.
EDIT: There are more complicated scenarios, whereby faulty hardware, can eventually cause the software to give up and go into some kind of less functional operation (and lots of other variations). Some of these things can be checked for, by looking in the right places in windows error log things. Which can tell you what has been reported. I'm not a big fan of windows, so maybe google it, or get help from someone who knows how to access these logs. Also, detailed performance analysis tools might help (benchmarks, memory/disk(SSD) transfer speeds, other tests).
Example:
https://kb.blackbaud.com/knowledgebase/Article/75433 Which is about 'How to use Event Viewer in Windows'

[SilverSolder]

I totally believe you are sensing something real and not going crazy.  Some people just have highly tuned sensory systems that get annoyed by things that most other people are able to ignore or don't notice.   For example, I remember once deploying new software on a financial trader's workstation.  He called and complained a few days later, "the screens are flickering".  He had 8 screens on this PC, all bombarding him with financial information.  I sat next to him for hours, trying to see what he was talking about.  After a couple of hours of intense concentration, I noticed the slightest, tiniest little stutter in the "flow" of information, as if the music stopped on all 8 screens for a brief few milliseconds before continuing as if nothing had happened...  I found it almost imperceptible, but I did notice it.   He immediately screamed,  "THERE!!  DID YOU SEE THAT??"  - it had hit him like being slapped in the face.  Here, the problem was caused by the new software somehow blocking the flow of video for a few milliseconds at a time.  I uninstalled the software, and the PC was smooth for him again.

Based on this experience, it seems to me that it is most likely there is a problem with some software running on the PC that is introducing tiny stutters in the smooth flow of video that you notice (maybe subconsciously).  You can absolutely get small stutters in the flow of video (gaming) due to things going on in the operating system, interactions between drivers and hardware, etc. -  and it can be very difficult to pinpoint.

I would try to borrow a laptop or another PC (even if not as high performance) and see if they behave more smoothly for you, just to convince yourself you're not crazy (I don't think you are...  you just need the PC to flow smoothly!).

[Nominal Animal]

I totally believe you are sensing something real and not going crazy.

Me too.  I perceive the 100 Hz flicker of fluorescent lights, and when I'm tired, it gives me a headache.  (I also get mild symptoms in the dark when e.g. cyclists have fast-blinking lights.  I know it makes them more visible to drivers, but sometimes I get nausea, usually just a small ache behind my eyes.)
I'm so happy to have stable backlit LCDs now, with very little to no refresh flicker!

Do not see my brusque tone as "not believing".  I'm always this direct, but I do try hard to help discover the underlying issue.

In this case, there could be several: one is the input latency (and some software burning CPU time could definitely cause this!), and the other is the network latency (some software taking up CPU time could cause this, too).  I assume you scan regularly for viruses and malware.  Oh, and if you have many games installed, their copy protection systems might be "fighting" against each other, running all the time, and causing the glitching.

I do not think the noise in your mains voltage, or the changes in the humidity are the cause.
However, they could be related, if they happen to affect say the building switch; it could be in a bad cabinet, glitching when humidity is high, maybe causing condensation-related connector issues.

I would try to borrow a laptop or another PC (even if not as high performance) and see if they behave more smoothly for you, just to convince yourself you're not crazy (I don't think you are...  you just need the PC to flow smoothly!).

An excellent suggestion!  For one, comparing the performance of this other machine at say one of your friends place, to performance at your own place using your current internet connection, could tell if there is a reproducible issue in your internet connection.

Also, you could lug your gaming setup to one of your friends' place, one that does not suffer from similar effects, and test it there with their internet connection.
If your gaming computer works well there, then you've excluded your gaming computer as the cause of the issues.  If it has the same problems there too, then it is something in your gaming setup that causes the issues.

[ultraknur]

fresh format gives a relief for one day and the same claims a lot of other players I meet.

Which would point to software, not hardware being the real problem. Consider the opposite situation. Let's say your hardware really was faulty in same way, and messing up your gaming experience. A fresh format, shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, if it does, it tends to point to software (drivers, windows, etc), being the real problem.
EDIT: There are more complicated scenarios, whereby faulty hardware, can eventually cause the software to give up and go into some kind of less functional operation (and lots of other variations). Some of these things can be checked for, by looking in the right places in windows error log things. Which can tell you what has been reported. I'm not a big fan of windows, so maybe google it, or get help from someone who knows how to access these logs. Also, detailed performance analysis tools might help (benchmarks, memory/disk(SSD) transfer speeds, other tests).
Example:
https://kb.blackbaud.com/knowledgebase/Article/75433 Which is about 'How to use Event Viewer in Windows'

What software would be responsible for this having freshly installed Windows and Nvidia driver only? That's the question. Is my PC infected with some kind of super hidden cryptomining virus? I don't possess enough knowledge to verify this. The problem occurs since first click on brand new PC 3 years ago. During this time I replaced every part of my PC including cables, chassis, router etc and spent hell of money.

Yes, unfortunately it's purely subjective but I trust for my senses and perception. I don't have access to professional measuring equipment, even oscope. Like I wrote in first post I wouldn't have realized the problem is happening if I hadn't experienced perfect gameplay in gaming cafe. It is pointless to do any tests with benchmarks because the problem are slowed down inputs (click -> processing -> appearance on the screen) and degraded monitor refresh rate, not the performance counted with scores. My current internet connection is FTTB so interference through the fiber is excluded but still ISP's routers may be affected.

You don't need electrical engineering equipment to investigate this problem. What you're trying to do is akin to working out why the engine in your car isn't running right by performing metallurgy on the engine block.

Years ago as a teenager I was a 'gamer' and troubleshooted problems like this without any knowledge of electrical engineering. The first question I'd ask is, do you experience the poor performance when playing games offline? If yes, then you can tentatively rule out the internet as a source of problems. Next things to try:
-Try a different mouse and keyboard
-Make sure you have the correct drivers installed, especially for your mouse and for your graphics card. Also try an older version of graphics card driver - the latest driver may have a bug.
-Turn down the graphics settings in your game. Try VSYNC on and off if your game has the option.
-Make sure your CPU isn't throttling because it's getting too hot

It's not about performance in means of amount of frames. You would be surprised how unsmooth it is with 500 FPS and 240Hz. I can't really tell you if this happens in offline games but after spending thousands of hours in Counter Strike I can easily tell you, when the game is working properly or not. I wouldn't if I hadn't see it in the past. All of your 4 points I can rule out with a fair amount of certainty but thanks for your engagement.

I totally believe you are sensing something real and not going crazy.  Some people just have highly tuned sensory systems that get annoyed by things that most other people are able to ignore or don't notice.   For example, I remember once deploying new software on a financial trader's workstation.  He called and complained a few days later, "the screens are flickering".  He had 8 screens on this PC, all bombarding him with financial information.  I sat next to him for hours, trying to see what he was talking about.  After a couple of hours of intense concentration, I noticed the slightest, tiniest little stutter in the "flow" of information, as if the music stopped on all 8 screens for a brief few milliseconds before continuing as if nothing had happened...  I found it almost imperceptible, but I did notice it.   He immediately screamed,  "THERE!!  DID YOU SEE THAT??"  - it had hit him like being slapped in the face.  Here, the problem was caused by the new software somehow blocking the flow of video for a few milliseconds at a time.  I uninstalled the software, and the PC was smooth for him again.

Based on this experience, it seems to me that it is most likely there is a problem with some software running on the PC that is introducing tiny stutters in the smooth flow of video that you notice (maybe subconsciously).  You can absolutely get small stutters in the flow of video (gaming) due to things going on in the operating system, interactions between drivers and hardware, etc. -  and it can be very difficult to pinpoint.

I would try to borrow a laptop or another PC (even if not as high performance) and see if they behave more smoothly for you, just to convince yourself you're not crazy (I don't think you are...  you just need the PC to flow smoothly!).

I am glad, that you understand me. If someone doesn't notice it, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Playing with this issue for years made my senses even sharper and I notice the slightest fluctuations immediately.

@Nominal Animal that's the most professional answer I've ever received and the part about UDP latency interested me most. I am not very proficient into networking, but testing UDP performance wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't know how to approach it on Windows to get reliable results.

[ultraknur]

I am posting results of kernel timer latency. Maybe you can draw some conclusions however I've heard, that these results are fine.

[SilverSolder]

It could be something very fundamental, e.g. the interaction between motherboard, graphics cards, and drivers - sometimes it is down to certain versions of drivers and libraries.   It is a total pain in the neck to troubleshoot something like this.

The fact that you think it has been going on since the PC was new means it has never worked 100% smoothly, and it could be anything...  USB, SATA, memory, video, their drivers, OS libraries, application software, etc. etc. ...  - that is the culprit.

I remember now that with the trader workstation example I talked about earlier, it turned out that the application that caused the stuttering was built on Microsoft's .NET framework.  The developers couldn't cure the problem; they believed the issue had something to do with how the .NET framework interacted with the OS and drivers.

[SilverSolder]

I just tried the same latency test on the ancient laptop that I'm couch surfing from...   Your latency numbers seem on the high side, for a gaming PC?

[magic]

I don't know what's the relevance of "Windows kernel timer" latency, but 23ms is an eternity by computer standards
And whatever it is, the "kernel" part suggests something to do with O/S and drivers.

(If the whole result isn't a red herring.)

[SilverSolder]

I don't know what's the relevance of "Windows kernel timer" latency, but 23ms is an eternity by computer standards
And whatever it is, the "kernel" part suggests something to do with O/S and drivers.

(If the whole result isn't a red herring.)

The kernel keeps track of the flow of time by means of timer interrupts.  If they are not flowing smoothly...

[MK14]

To check that we aren't going round in circles, can I check a few hardware features ?

• Are you Overclocking any part(s) of your system ?
• Did you initially run a memory checker, to make sure the main RAM is good ?
• What Power Supply are you using, hopefully it is a recommended/good quality one, that can be trusted ?
• Have you run a computer stability/load test for a decent amount of time, such as Prime95 ?

[ultraknur]

To check that we aren't going round in circles, can I check a few hardware features ?

• Are you Overclocking any part(s) of your system ?
• Did you initially run a memory checker, to make sure the main RAM is good ?
• What Power Supply are you using, hopefully it is a recommended/good quality one, that can be trusted ?
• Have you run a computer stability/load test for a decent amount of time, such as Prime95 ?

Sure

1. No OC, just DOCP on
2. I did that long time ago but I am gonna test it one more time.
3. beQuiet Straight Power 11 750W 80 Gold+
4. I haven't, gonna check it.

OS - Windows 10 Education

[MK14]

Sure

1. No OC, just DOCP on
2. I did that long time ago but I am gonna test it one more time.
3. beQuiet Straight Power 11 750W 80 Gold+
4. I haven't, gonna check it.

OS - Windows 10 Education

Thanks for the information. For the tests (memory and stability), it makes sense to leave DOCP on. But you could try turning it off (DOCP), to see if it affects your issue(s).
Reviewers seem to like that power supply, especially its efficiency, but don't think it is quiet.
It will be interesting to see how the memory checks and load tests (Prime95 etc), turns out.

[ultraknur]

Sure

1. No OC, just DOCP on
2. I did that long time ago but I am gonna test it one more time.
3. beQuiet Straight Power 11 750W 80 Gold+
4. I haven't, gonna check it.

OS - Windows 10 Education

Thanks for the information. For the tests (memory and stability), it makes sense to leave DOCP on. But you could try turning it off (DOCP), to see if it affects your issue(s).
Reviewers seem to like that power supply, especially its efficiency, but don't think it is quiet.
It will be interesting to see how the memory checks and load tests (Prime95 etc), turns out.

I know that it should run for few hours but I don't think it makes sense. As far as I can remember I've never had any problems indicated by benchmarking softwares. I need more opinions about that high kernel latency.

[MK14]

I need more opinions about that high kernel latency.

If you check more things, such as DPC Latency, you would have a wider list of what issue(s), if any, you are experiencing.
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/#

Then a pattern would emerge, as to what might be showing problems, and what seems to be working ok. By running memory and/or Prime95 checks overnight, it would largely eliminate certain problems, that could be causing you issues.

Windows Event viewer, might have caught certain errors. So it is probably worth checking it.

From the link above:

If you’ve tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers, tried different ports and cables, and you’re still having issues, checking the DPC latency can help narrow down the core issue

Maybe this is a better link ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/11itqe/dpc_latency_and_why_you_should_care/

[magic]

The kernel keeps track of the flow of time by means of timer interrupts.  If they are not flowing smoothly...

Well, that much I know

Knowing nothing about Windows architecture, I can nevertheless speculate that "kernel timers" is probably a kernel facility that allows scheduling something to be executed at a specific later time. There may or may not exist other parallel mechanisms for achieving the same and "kernel timers" may or may not be employed when application threads request their execution to be delayed for a specific time. As you see, I can speculate a lot and know nothing for sure

If said kernel timers are involved in everything, from updating the screen to waking up applications that want to perform periodic processing then yes, I can see how random 23ms delays could cause interactivity issues here for something that wants to run at 100Hz or faster.

As for possible reasons,
- a friendly OS power saving feature which batches scheduled events until there is enough to justify waking up the CPU
- some buggy driver which hogs some sort of resource needed by "kernel timers" to execute scheduled events
- maybe some non-preemptible task which runs for 23ms at a time if such a thing is even possible on Windows

As you see, I have no clue. But it does smell of software.

[MK14]

As you see, I have no clue. But it does smell of software.

That or one or more of their hardware devices, is partly/fully incompatible with one or more of the other hardware devices. The device may just need its firmware updating, e.g. SSDs or the motherboard BIOS.
It is best to NOT blindly update bios's/firmware, without confirming that, that is what is causing the issues, because that can also introduce bugs/problems.

As you say/imply, it could also be bad software drivers and other software issues.

There are certain, specialist (computer/gaming) forums, which can be very helpful, in getting to the bottom with problems such as these. But they will probably ask many questions, and want to know the results of a number of tests, I suspect.

[magic]

BIOS is software. And it contains nasty ACPI, which may execute during OS operation. I don't know how Windows executes ACPI and whether some super-slow ACPI code could lock it up for several ms.

SSD I doubt. Disks are notoriously slow, software is written around the concept of dispatching commands to the disk for execution and doing other things until the results arrive later. Things shouldn't get locked up while waiting for a disk IMO. If Windows had problems with slow disks, it would be slow for everybody. But everybody has different drivers for other, less standardized hardware and those could do some funky stuff.

[MK14]

SSD I doubt.

The SSD would be amongst the top of my list of suspects. Unfortunately, especially with problematic versions of their firmware. They can cause all sorts of issues. It is an often overlooked problem.

The big advantage of the specialist computer forums, is they have people, who can somewhat rapidly diagnose difficult problems/issues, such as this one. They can recommend the best things to check for, and will know how to get to the bottom of this issue.

But I'd suggest presenting it as an unexpected frame rate drop (FPS) and/or stuttering and/or visual problem when playing games. Not mention mains power supply or humidity theories. You can mention a bit of it (power/humidity) in the description, but if you insist it is humidity etc, you may not get many good responses to your questions.

[magic]

I agree that SSD firmware may obviously cause disk I/O latency. But software scheduling latency, I don't think I have heard of that. Maybe on Windows

And updating SSD firmware can be risky too. Backing up all data would be a good idea.

[wraper]

But there is no way SSD can cause input to output delay, FPS drop or stuttering in games.

[MK14]

I agree that SSD firmware may obviously cause disk I/O latency. But software scheduling latency, I don't think I have heard of that. Maybe on Windows

And updating SSD firmware can be risky too. Backing up all data would be a good idea.

What you said, is what I would have originally thought. But, (if I remember correctly), it can cause a very wide range of issues, on PCs. Probably because if it misbehaves, potentially any memory request (which at times needs to go via the SSD, because of virtual memory), may hang and/or be hugely delayed. That would seriously mess up the operation, of many, many software operations, and perhaps cause knock on effects.
But anyway, there is (I think), a huge range of possible problems/issues, ranging from the cpu being poorly mounted in its socket, various overheating issues, and so many other things. Any of which could be causing or contributing to these issues.

Also of course, there are a wide range of possible software issues, conflicts with anti-virus software, inappropriate software stuff (intentionally or not), running on their computer. It is the vastness of these lists of possible problems, that makes me suggest going to a quality computer forum, with a good reputation for solving issues like this. Get their help.

Otherwise, you can go round in circles for years, and never get your gaming computer working properly, like it should be.

[MK14]

But there is no way SSD can cause input to output delay, FPS drop or stuttering in games.

I can't really agree or disagree with you. Because it was something I read about, elsewhere, and I can't remember the exact details.

Are you saying that the SSD can't cause various issues. E.g. An almost full SSD, grinding ones PC (e.g. while gaming), to a halt or rather low speed ?

But anyway, once the bad SSD/firmware has messed up certain parts/systems of a PC. They can easily have knock on effects, for the rest of the system.
E.g. A problematic mouse, can effect all sorts of things, in a PC. Because of the way, various bits, depend on other bits. So a bad mouse or its driver, is another possible cause.

DISCLAIMER:  I'm not currently familiar enough with all the various issues, which can badly affect gaming frame rates, stuttering, visual defects, and other issues, with modern PCs. Somewhere, where such computer/gaming enthusiasts frequent, can be best for such advise.

[SilverSolder]

But there is no way SSD can cause input to output delay, FPS drop or stuttering in games.

Not the SSD itself, but perhaps an unfortunately written driver could block while waiting for something or other to happen on the bus, giving the same effect.

[MK14]

But there is no way SSD can cause input to output delay, FPS drop or stuttering in games.

Then why are some motherboard manufacture's so concerned about these issues, that they publish QVL Lists, for Memory, M.2 and SSD drives ?

Here is an example:   https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z170X-UD5-rev-10/support#support-doc

Name   Date   Download   Description
Memory Support List   2016/04/18   
M.2 Support List   2016/03/25   
SSD Support List   2016/03/24   
SATA Express Support List

I suggest they publish these (QVL) supported hardware lists, because compatibility is an important issue, to avoid various hardware/software/driver/compatibility issues and problems.
QVL =  Qualified Vendor List.

[ogden]

And whatever it is, the "kernel" part suggests something to do with O/S and drivers.

Likely cause - rootkit/virus. First thing to do - run same test using "diagnostics OS" from USB flash, like Hiren's BootCD or similar. Other option: clean reinstall of OS/software.

[thm_w]

The latency results may be a bit of a red herring: https://www.overclock.net/threads/kernel-timer-latency-too-high-unable-to-game-properly-please-help.1794416/
If you run "dpc latency checker" concurrently you will see the kernel times decrease. But, at least it is a proper quantifiable number, not this "feels slow" BS, so you can try changing things.

Mine was 12ms alone, then down to 100us once you run dpc latency graph.

But what you should do, as mentioned, is run some sort of benchmark for your game IMO. One that will let you see frame times, and see any spikes in response. Of course, if its hardware (mouse) or network issue, the problem would not show up there.

Then why are some motherboard manufacture's so concerned about these issues, that they publish QVL Lists, for Memory, M.2 and SSD drives ?

So why are there no "not supported" drives on that list?
Its just a list of parts they tested that they know guarantee to work, its not saying, if the part is not on this list it won't work. SSD compatibility issues are going to be very rare.
Memory is the only one where its not uncommon to have certain ram types just not work at all with some motherboard.

[MK14]

SSD compatibility

What I'm trying to say is that SSDs, are just one of hundreds or thousands of possible hardware/software etc issues, that can cause various PC problems. Another poster was trying to say something on the lines of SSDs never ever cause problems, like the OP has had.
I was only trying to show, that they can cause problems. But since it is only one of a numerous number of possible causes, I wouldn't home in on SSDs, or any other single problem, early on.

Unfortunately, the OP seems to home in on some kind of theory, such as IT'S HUMIDITY ..., rather than sitting back and systematically determine what is causing their issues. There are somewhat established methods of sorting out gaming PCs with issues, such as this. But if someone doesn't want to go down that root, then it doesn't surprise me, that they have had the same issue for 3 years now, and it is still unsolved.

[ultraknur]

The latency results may be a bit of a red herring: https://www.overclock.net/threads/kernel-timer-latency-too-high-unable-to-game-properly-please-help.1794416/
If you run "dpc latency checker" concurrently you will see the kernel times decrease. But, at least it is a proper quantifiable number, not this "feels slow" BS, so you can try changing things.

Mine was 12ms alone, then down to 100us once you run dpc latency graph.

But what you should do, as mentioned, is run some sort of benchmark for your game IMO. One that will let you see frame times, and see any spikes in response. Of course, if its hardware (mouse) or network issue, the problem would not show up there.

Then why are some motherboard manufacture's so concerned about these issues, that they publish QVL Lists, for Memory, M.2 and SSD drives ?

So why are there no "not supported" drives on that list?
Its just a list of parts they tested that they know guarantee to work, its not saying, if the part is not on this list it won't work. SSD compatibility issues are going to be very rare.
Memory is the only one where its not uncommon to have certain ram types just not work at all with some motherboard.

Frame times graph is ok, I had spikes before caused by some RGB software but currently everything is fine except slow/sluggish inputs and no 240Hz feeling. If I had to compare this to something, just imagine playing on cheap 24'' gaming laptop. CS:GO, when working good, has really crisp and precise movement and hits are registering normal but motion on my PC looks like walking with lead shoes. The game is simply slower than is should be.

SSD compatibility

What I'm trying to say is that SSDs, are just one of hundreds or thousands of possible hardware/software etc issues, that can cause various PC problems. Another poster was trying to say something on the lines of SSDs never ever cause problems, like the OP has had.
I was only trying to show, that they can cause problems. But since it is only one of a numerous number of possible causes, I wouldn't home in on SSDs, or any other single problem, early on.

Unfortunately, the OP seems to home in on some kind of theory, such as IT'S HUMIDITY ..., rather than sitting back and systematically determine what is causing their issues. There are somewhat established methods of sorting out gaming PCs with issues, such as this. But if someone doesn't want to go down that root, then it doesn't surprise me, that they have had the same issue for 3 years now, and it is still unsolved.

You have no idea what I've tried and what I did. Most of ideas here I've done multiple times, thats why it ended on electricity. Before you start mocking my theory, prove that I am 100% wrong.

[MK14]

You have no idea what I've tried and what I did. Most of ideas here I've done multiple times, thats why it ended on electricity.

My understanding is that PCs have specifications, which mean that they need to keep running for a period of time, without any electricity from the mains. I'd need to look it up, but it is something like 20 milliseconds (one complete mains cycle). So, that makes it rather difficult for problems on the electricity supply to actually get through to the final voltage rails inside a PC.
So, I'd need a lot of convincing, that the problem is due to your electricity supply.

Also, one can get UPS (uninterruptible power supplies), which (assuming you get the right type), completely re-create a relatively independent 'mains' supply, for powering your PC. These should eliminate such problems. But be warned, you need the right type(s), as some of them don't filter the supply for you (probably cheaper ones).
You can even power your PC (for something like 5 or 10 minutes), via the UPSs built in internal batteries, to help confirm/deny the electricity supply being the cause/trigger of your problems.

[MK14]

Before you start mocking my theory, prove that I am 100% wrong.

If you want to play things that way, I'll run away from the thread.

There are established ways of fixing and diagnosing PC issues. If you want to come up with a completely different theory, and insist on 100% proof it is proved wrong, before listening to me. I can't really help you, and would be best, to exit the thread.

[ultraknur]

Yes, Double Conversion UPS would be a good idea to test but you still won't know where the source of the problem is. Unfortunately, there are no electricians in my town who could conduct measurements for finding any interference because it's a very niche field. Second thing is, if I would be able to prove that something is wrong, I can contact "Office of Electronic Communications" but all of this is based on my subjective opinion, which doesn't mean I am wrong. Also it is a good idea, to move to another place, but I couldn't live with a fact, that something was causing my PC working like a complete garbage without knowing what was that.

Before you start mocking my theory, prove that I am 100% wrong.

If you want to play things that way, I'll run away from the thread.

There are established ways of fixing and diagnosing PC issues. If you want to come up with a completely different theory, and insist on 100% proof it is proved wrong, before listening to me. I can't really help you, and would be best, to exit the thread.

I don't want you to go but you must understand, that problem was present on completely different PC build. I spent a lot of money looking for a source of the problem by buying new CPU, PSU, mobo, ram, gpu, keyboards, mice, monitors, routers. I did hundreds of settings combinations and nothing. I don't know if it's relevant, but in vicinity (~220m) of my building there is local radio broadcast station. Maybe their antennas are inducting some kind of interference in the wires? I don't know and that's why I came here.

[MK14]

Yes, Double Conversion UPS would be a good idea to test but you still won't know where the source of the problem is.

Taking your first point. It would answer the basic question, is the problem related (even slightly) to the incoming mains electricity supply to the PC, or not. If it makes absolutely no difference, then you could move on to other things.
But if it does fix the problem, then you can start finding out more, about what is happening. What exactly is wrong with the mains, and how is it affecting the PC internally.

Otherwise, if you just assume the mains must be at fault (without confirming/checking), you would just go round in circles and never get to the bottom of things.

Your later point, can it be rf/emi interference. Yes it can be.

[MK14]

By taking a PC, and using diagnostics, investigating things like Windows event logs (errors), benchmarks, various internal processes, computer stress tests, memory checkers, etc etc. You should be able to find out specific error messages and/or failures detected. Which can then be used to help determine what is really going wrong with these PCs. Regardless of if the real problem is your PCs, their hardware/software, internet connections, mains supply, humidity level, rf/emi, etc etc.
Hence me wanting to narrow in to what the real problem(s)/issues are.

Usually when you have problems like you describe, there are error logs, and other sources of information. Which can give valuable clues as to what is wrong.

In the investigations so far, have you ever been able to get any specific error codes, warnings, test failures etc, giving clues as to what the issues might be ?

You didn't seem to mention an earlier PC, in the thread, originally. What is the story behind the earlier/original PC. What went wrong with it exactly (symptoms etc) ?

[thm_w]

By taking a PC, and using diagnostics, investigating things like Windows event logs (errors), benchmarks, various internal processes, computer stress tests, memory checkers, etc etc.

There is no actual raw performance problem though, as reported by OP. They are claiming benchmark is always good.

Frame times graph is ok, I had spikes before caused by some RGB software but currently everything is fine except slow/sluggish inputs and no 240Hz feeling. If I had to compare this to something, just imagine playing on cheap 24'' gaming laptop. CS:GO, when working good, has really crisp and precise movement and hits are registering normal but motion on my PC looks like walking with lead shoes. The game is simply slower than is should be.

Then its something like this: https://www.pcgamer.com/what-is-microstutter-and-how-do-i-fix-it/

If it was actually an issue related to EMI/power/humidity/etc, how would you not see problems in the frame time? Or in benchmark results that heavily stresses the CPU and RAM?

[ultraknur]

By taking a PC, and using diagnostics, investigating things like Windows event logs (errors), benchmarks, various internal processes, computer stress tests, memory checkers, etc etc. You should be able to find out specific error messages and/or failures detected. Which can then be used to help determine what is really going wrong with these PCs. Regardless of if the real problem is your PCs, their hardware/software, internet connections, mains supply, humidity level, rf/emi, etc etc.
Hence me wanting to narrow in to what the real problem(s)/issues are.

Usually when you have problems like you describe, there are error logs, and other sources of information. Which can give valuable clues as to what is wrong.

In the investigations so far, have you ever been able to get any specific error codes, warnings, test failures etc, giving clues as to what the issues might be ?

You didn't seem to mention an earlier PC, in the thread, originally. What is the story behind the earlier/original PC. What went wrong with it exactly (symptoms etc) ?

For last 3 years I've never detected any problem during benchmarks, stress tests, memory tests etc. Temperatures were always good and I know how to take care about PC. I can repeat them one more time, but believe me I am already tired of this. However I am curious about tracking UDP packets but I don't have enough skills to do that.

Regarding my first PC in short. I knew that something was wrong, because I bought PC few days after I visited gaming cafe where I played CS:GO. Clicks were processed way too slow. I couldn't make crisp peeks behind corners. Also 144Hz smoothness was really crappy and monitor was the first thing I replaced to new 240Hz BenQ XL2546 (number 1 monitor on market that time) and again I felt that something is wrong. I could see intense ghosting after few weeks, any motion was leaving kind of trace so I RMA it. BenQ has DyAc technology which in theory should smoothen everything to the limit but I couldn't see the difference. After that I was becoming more paranoid and more. Everyday changing settings, replacing every part, internet providers and by that I ended up on electricity because I had no more ideas. Then I found a group of people fighting with same issue, some of them claimed that big ferrite toroids helped, some of them made chemical ground, another just changed location and forgot about this nonsense.

By taking a PC, and using diagnostics, investigating things like Windows event logs (errors), benchmarks, various internal processes, computer stress tests, memory checkers, etc etc.

There is no actual raw performance problem though, as reported by OP. They are claiming benchmark is always good.

Frame times graph is ok, I had spikes before caused by some RGB software but currently everything is fine except slow/sluggish inputs and no 240Hz feeling. If I had to compare this to something, just imagine playing on cheap 24'' gaming laptop. CS:GO, when working good, has really crisp and precise movement and hits are registering normal but motion on my PC looks like walking with lead shoes. The game is simply slower than is should be.

Then its something like this: https://www.pcgamer.com/what-is-microstutter-and-how-do-i-fix-it/

If it was actually an issue related to EMI/power/humidity/etc, how would you not see problems in the frame time? Or in benchmark results that heavily stresses the CPU and RAM?

Frame time "quality" issues are generally correlated with drivers/driver settings (ie. MSI Utility)/softwares/throttling. I believe that integrated circuits/capacitors/conductors in the monitor are somehow affected but can't be detected by software. I don't know to what I can compare it, but imagine strong magnet touching CRT monitor. You gonna see artifacts. Can you detect it from software level?

[MK14]

Going back a step or so. I remember you saying something like a fresh install, of just the absolute bare bones software on your PC, worked for around 1 day, before issues started. If that is the case, then it could be that either you are (at a later time) installing one or more, problematic pieces of software. Which is causing these issues, or your windows system is damaging the windows installation itself (probably much less likely, EDIT: On the other hand, windows could be changing the drivers/settings/stuff, after a day, with its automatic updates and stuff, so maybe ?).

Are you saying that if you do a bare bones installation, and install nothing else. Then after a day of gameplay, it starts to re-show these issues you have been experiencing ?

This question is important. Because if it is electricity supply, humidity, rf/emi, hardware, etc. Then it probably shouldn't work well for one day, after a bare-bones installation. Since those problems would more than likely, immediately stop it from working properly. I.e. The one day delay before your problem shows up, doesn't make a lot of sense, unless it is some software being installed after the one day is up.

[MK14]

By taking a PC, and using diagnostics, investigating things like Windows event logs (errors), benchmarks, various internal processes, computer stress tests, memory checkers, etc etc.

There is no actual raw performance problem though, as reported by OP. They are claiming benchmark is always good.

I didn't just mean performance benchmarking. I also meant, checking signs of frames taking longer to be produced than they should. I.e. fps minimum and/or unexpected sudden drops in fps, which would tie in with the problems the OP has been having. Maybe.

[ultraknur]

Going back a step or so. I remember you saying something like a fresh install, of just the absolute bare bones software on your PC, worked for around 1 day, before issues started. If that is the case, then it could be that either you are (at a later time) installing one or more, problematic pieces of software. Which is causing these issues, or your windows system is damaging the windows installation itself (probably much less likely, EDIT: On the other hand, windows could be changing the drivers/settings/stuff, after a day, with its automatic updates and stuff, so maybe ?).

Are you saying that if you do a bare bones installation, and install nothing else. Then after a day of gameplay, it starts to re-show these issues you have been experiencing ?

This question is important. Because if it is electricity supply, humidity, rf/emi, hardware, etc. Then it probably shouldn't work well for one day, after a bare-bones installation. Since those problems would more than likely, immediately stop it from working properly. I.e. The one day delay before your problem shows up, doesn't make a lot of sense, unless it is some software being installed after the one day is up.

I had nothing except latest nVidia driver, Steam and Counter Strike. Nothing else. For one day it was acceptable but not perfect. To clarify, it was not about smoothness of my display (which on random days around 4-5 AM becomes really smooth like never before, it happens pretty seldom) but only inputs and desync. If you start digging in the Internet, lots of people claims that after format it is fine for some time and the issue is coming back. Nonsense.

[MK14]

I assume you checked the ping times in your game.
https://win.gg/news/heres-how-to-show-fps-ping-packet-loss-and-more-in-csgo/#:~:text=The%20option%20is%20a%20tickbox,the%20corner%20of%20your%20screen.

Because your internet connection, could be improving at around 4:00AM to 5:00AM, as so few people use the internet at that sort of time. Potentially improving things like ping rates and stuff.

Although you said earlier, you had tried changing ISP. I would suspect the basic infrastructure/equipment they use, is shared, at least near your end, between different ISP companies (I don't know for sure, in your country). So, although you changed ISPs, it may not have changed the nearby equipment you were really using, at the telephone exchange, phone/internet lines/equipment, outside of where you live, until it reaches the actual ISP.

[nightfire]

A bit late to the party, but my 0.02 Euro:

The humidity should impose no big problem. We see here something between 60%-80%, which is fine unless it is able to do some condensing on some part where it affects performance (like fans etc.)

Humidity is critical when below 20% RH, because of the building of static charges and unloading. At my last employer (Datacenter/Webhoster) we had humidifiers in the main cooling cabinets to make up for that stuff in winter.

Other shot in the blue: What about the thermal paste between CPU and Heatsink? If this connection is not great, or you have assembly problems there, you also could get heat issues that result in throttling.

[ultraknur]

A bit late to the party, but my 0.02 Euro:

The humidity should impose no big problem. We see here something between 60%-80%, which is fine unless it is able to do some condensing on some part where it affects performance (like fans etc.)

Humidity is critical when below 20% RH, because of the building of static charges and unloading. At my last employer (Datacenter/Webhoster) we had humidifiers in the main cooling cabinets to make up for that stuff in winter.

Other shot in the blue: What about the thermal paste between CPU and Heatsink? If this connection is not great, or you have assembly problems there, you also could get heat issues that result in throttling.

I didn't experience heat issues in RDR2 @ ultra settings nor in csgo

[katzohki]

Can you give us the entire parts list for your PC? Could be CPU bottleneck or something else we can't tell if we don't know that. Unless I missed it I didn't see the full parts listed.

Also I agree that you need to run 3DMark and post the results you get here. It's a benchmarking software you can get on Steam.

Also, what FPS are you getting in which games?

[ultraknur]

Can you give us the entire parts list for your PC? Could be CPU bottleneck or something else we can't tell if we don't know that. Unless I missed it I didn't see the full parts listed.

Also I agree that you need to run 3DMark and post the results you get here. It's a benchmarking software you can get on Steam.

Also, what FPS are you getting in which games?

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3070 Aorus Master 8GB
RAM: G.SKILL 32GB 3600MHz CL16 TridentZ RGB Neo
MOBO: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS
PSU: BE QUIET! Straight Power 11 750W 80 Plus Gold
MOUSE: Razer Basilisk Ultimate
KEYBOARD: Steelseries Apex Pro Omnipoint
MONITOR: Acer Predator XB3 240Hz, Benq Zowie XL2411K

Borderlands 3 ~80 fps @ HD, ultra
CS:GO 400-500 fps @ high
RDR2 ~50 fps @ HD, ultra
Witcher 3 ~60 fps @ HD, ultra

[katzohki]

Can you give us the entire parts list for your PC? Could be CPU bottleneck or something else we can't tell if we don't know that. Unless I missed it I didn't see the full parts listed.

Also I agree that you need to run 3DMark and post the results you get here. It's a benchmarking software you can get on Steam.

Also, what FPS are you getting in which games?

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3070 Aorus Master 8GB
RAM: G.SKILL 32GB 3600MHz CL16 TridentZ RGB Neo
MOBO: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS
PSU: BE QUIET! Straight Power 11 750W 80 Plus Gold
MOUSE: Razer Basilisk Ultimate
KEYBOARD: Steelseries Apex Pro Omnipoint
MONITOR: Acer Predator XB3 240Hz, Benq Zowie XL2411K

Borderlands 3 ~80 fps @ HD, ultra
CS:GO 400-500 fps @ high
RDR2 ~50 fps @ HD, ultra
Witcher 3 ~60 fps @ HD, ultra

Nice specs. Okay, so it looks like decent performance, should still run 3D Mark or some other benchmarking software if you can.

What monitor are you hooked up to?
Is the monitor cable plugged into the graphics card or the mother board?

[ultraknur]

Can you give us the entire parts list for your PC? Could be CPU bottleneck or something else we can't tell if we don't know that. Unless I missed it I didn't see the full parts listed.

Also I agree that you need to run 3DMark and post the results you get here. It's a benchmarking software you can get on Steam.

Also, what FPS are you getting in which games?

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3070 Aorus Master 8GB
RAM: G.SKILL 32GB 3600MHz CL16 TridentZ RGB Neo
MOBO: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS
PSU: BE QUIET! Straight Power 11 750W 80 Plus Gold
MOUSE: Razer Basilisk Ultimate
KEYBOARD: Steelseries Apex Pro Omnipoint
MONITOR: Acer Predator XB3 240Hz, Benq Zowie XL2411K

Borderlands 3 ~80 fps @ HD, ultra
CS:GO 400-500 fps @ high
RDR2 ~50 fps @ HD, ultra
Witcher 3 ~60 fps @ HD, ultra

Nice specs. Okay, so it looks like decent performance, should still run 3D Mark or some other benchmarking software if you can.

What monitor are you hooked up to?
Is the monitor cable plugged into the graphics card or the mother board?

Acer Predator, monitor cable is plugged into GPU because I don't have integrated graphic card. Benchmark will indicate nothing, you can't measure input lag with software, you can't measure real smoothness of your monitor. You need high speed camera for that and little bit of electronic skills.

[thm_w]

I didn't just mean performance benchmarking. I also meant, checking signs of frames taking longer to be produced than they should. I.e. fps minimum and/or unexpected sudden drops in fps, which would tie in with the problems the OP has been having. Maybe.

I asked for frame time graphing and they already claim to have done that.
Its just OPs imagination gone wild at this point.

Frame time "quality" issues are generally correlated with drivers/driver settings (ie. MSI Utility)/softwares/throttling. I believe that integrated circuits/capacitors/conductors in the monitor are somehow affected but can't be detected by software. I don't know to what I can compare it, but imagine strong magnet touching CRT monitor. You gonna see artifacts. Can you detect it from software level?

Not happening.
You already said you've tried multiple monitors, so any monitor related EMI/ESD issue is ruled out. EMI would never cause ghosting anyway.

Of course that monitor model itself may be bad, but, just borrow someones monitor or take your PC to a friends house, etc.
https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/588904/acer-predator-xb271hu-ghost-image-problem

[ultraknur]

I didn't just mean performance benchmarking. I also meant, checking signs of frames taking longer to be produced than they should. I.e. fps minimum and/or unexpected sudden drops in fps, which would tie in with the problems the OP has been having. Maybe.

I asked for frame time graphing and they already claim to have done that.
Its just OPs imagination gone wild at this point.

Frame time "quality" issues are generally correlated with drivers/driver settings (ie. MSI Utility)/softwares/throttling. I believe that integrated circuits/capacitors/conductors in the monitor are somehow affected but can't be detected by software. I don't know to what I can compare it, but imagine strong magnet touching CRT monitor. You gonna see artifacts. Can you detect it from software level?

Not happening.
You already said you've tried multiple monitors, so any monitor related EMI/ESD issue is ruled out. EMI would never cause ghosting anyway.

Of course that monitor model itself may be bad, but, just borrow someones monitor or take your PC to a friends house, etc.
https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/588904/acer-predator-xb271hu-ghost-image-problem

I am not sure if you know what ghosting is.

Frame time is good. I've checked it multiple times with MSI Afterburner.

[thm_w]

In some cases ghosting can easily be induced in the settings menu of the monitor:

The Acer XB253QGP has three pixel response time overdrive modes (Off, Normal, and Extreme).
Since the Extreme mode is too aggressive and adds too much pixel overshoot (inverse ghosting), we highly recommend sticking with the Normal mode.

[ultraknur]

In some cases ghosting can easily be induced in the settings menu of the monitor:

The Acer XB253QGP has three pixel response time overdrive modes (Off, Normal, and Extreme).
Since the Extreme mode is too aggressive and adds too much pixel overshoot (inverse ghosting), we highly recommend sticking with the Normal mode.

I appreciate your willingness to help, but I would like read ideas about possible EMI/RFI or other electrical issues.

[thm_w]

Its nothing to do with EMI.
You have yet to take the machine to a friends house and run it there, as was suggested above.

One of my buddy claims that it's fixed after disconnecting old FM/AM radio.

So somehow a radio, which is very low power, emits enough EMI to cause minor, but not major, problems to a device housed in a shielded metal box? (well some have windows on the side...)
And somehow this same issue is affecting you in a similar same way, and cannot be measured, its only based on "feel".

Looks like there are forums dedicated to this BS idea: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewforum.php?f=24
At least they have some self awareness: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9562

[ultraknur]

Its nothing to do with EMI.
You have yet to take the machine to a friends house and run it there, as was suggested above.

One of my buddy claims that it's fixed after disconnecting old FM/AM radio.

So somehow a radio, which is very low power, emits enough EMI to cause minor, but not major, problems to a device housed in a shielded metal box? (well some have windows on the side...)
And somehow this same issue is affecting you in a similar same way, and cannot be measured, its only based on "feel".

Looks like there are forums dedicated to this BS idea: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewforum.php?f=24
At least they have some self awareness: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9562

And you assume that it's not EMI basing on what? I can ask him to come here and he will explain how he managed to fix it. You can trust me or not I don't really mind. It's based on my "feel" having tens of thousands hours in games and compared to what I experienced in the past.

[Nominal Animal]

I would like read ideas about possible EMI/RFI or other electrical issues.

The problem is that EMI/RFI does not cause such minor effects at all.

I know this sounds hostile and unreasonable to you, but here's the thing: we know how these devices work, intimately.  What you are describing is like claiming that you can feel the color of the surface you're walking on: not the material or paint type used, but the color itself.   If you are human, you do not have cone cells in the soles of your feet actually connected to your central nervous system.  It is therefore almost certain that if you really believed it to be so, it was a correlation: instead of sensing the actual color, your senses had managed to collect correlated information, letting your human mind connect the correlation to causation.  Which is very typical of us humans.

Electromagnetic interference and radio frequency interference can affect a computer, sure.  However, the way computers are constructed means that either such effects are corrected without any overhead (as in ECC memory, reading data off an SSD or HDD or a CD/DVD/BluRay disc), the error is ignored/overlooked (say, changing just one bit that does not affect the result enough for noticeable effects), or the computer crashes or locks up due to the error.

The processors do not "redo" work when it notices an error.  Except for network communications, error correction is done in hardware (and the hardware does whatever it does in the same time regardless of whether there were errors corrected or not).  In network communications, the information sent and received is in packets, with each packet containing a checksum.  If that checksum mismatches, the packet is thrown away, and the sender has to re-send it.

As an example, consider ECC RAM.  It works at a specific rate, each read and write access taking a specific amount of time.  This time is listed on the chips or the memory module.  The motherboard contains hardware that during each access, verifies the contents match the extra error correction bits; and if not, "fixes" the data.  (This is the difference between checksums and error correction codes: the former are designed to indicate integrity, the latter are designed to be useful to fix integrity issues.)  If the data cannot be fixed, a Machine Check Exception occurs, and in past Windows versions, this causes a bluescreen.  In no case is there a measurable slowdown regardless of whether an error occurred, a correction was attempted, or not: the ECC works at the same rate in all situations.

(Perhaps CDs would have been a better example, because they often have errors –– scratches and whatnot.  If the ECC slowed the player down, then even minor scratches corrected by the player (so that no glitch is left in the audio data), the player would slow down and the corrected errors be audible!  That would make ECC useless in a CD player.  Yet, CD players were a major step forward in ECC use.  The only case you can actually hear a glitch from a CD is when the player cannot correct the errors anymore.  Because it is a simple device, it often loses its place in the spiral, and starts repeating the same thing.  Computers are more complex, and instead of stuttering like that, they just crash.)

I am still assuming there is actually something wrong in your computer setup.  The timer latencies you showed in post #21 definitely look horribly wrong.

To prove it is a "software problem" –– meaning something not electrical, but something in the OS, motherboard, interaction between motherboard and processor, EFI BIOS, or even malware or virus somehow re-infecting your machine –– I would recommend you do a fresh reinstall of your machine, and before installing any games or anything, redo the kernel timer latency test you did in post #21.  If indeed a fresh reinstall makes the problem go away for a short while, and it is a software issue related to kernel timers (because they're the one thing in this thread that could cause the issues you're seeing), you'll see the timer latencies be much, MUCH smaller.  And, if/when the issues come back, the timer latencies also grow to the huge values you showed in post #21.

I know that is quite a bit of work (or, rather, time spent for just to confirm a possible cause); but, it is the most likely actionable (as in, "this we can do something with") symptom thus far.  If indeed the kernel timer latencies correlate with the problems you observe, and do not occur in a freshly reinstalled system, we at least have a clue we can work from.  (While I personally cannot tell you how to fix that kind of an issue, I can help with how and where to report the issue to get a fix.)

[BrokenYugo]

Has bufferbloat in the router been ruled out?

[magic]

I am still assuming there is actually something wrong in your computer setup.  The timer latencies you showed in post #21 definitely look horribly wrong.

They do or they don't. If you search around, you will find reports that those numbers change with system load, like running two of those tests at the same time may improve the results of one or both. It could be some power optimization as I said, and it could be enabled/disabled by OS heuristics or API calls made by applications or whatever. No one here has any idea.

The fundamental problem is that OP can't even state what exactly is wrong and nail it down with a reproducible test.

At this point I may humbly suggest quantum stickers. You put them on capacitors, they filter all the EMI/RFI/EMC crap from your electricity by means of science.

[MK14]

The fundamental problem is that OP can't even state what exactly is wrong and nail it down with a reproducible test.

I think it is even worse than that very good summary. They seem to have enabled an automatic memory overclocking (if I understood, the earlier OP posts correctly) feature of their motherboard, but they seem to be refusing to run a memory checker (and computer stability checker) for long enough to give reliable results (e.g. overnight). Which is (overclocking), a well established way of making a computer unreliable, and fail in all sorts of weird, strange and very hard to diagnose ways.
They don't seem to have responded to my requests for windows event viewer results (which may have found errors and hence the real cause of any issues), or ping (within their favorite game) results.

Yet (Warning: Possible sarcasm and exaggeration, for dramatic effect, follows), someone in a park, half a mile from where they live, switches on an AM radio, or it rains, increasing humidity, and their 50,000+ hours of gaming experience, means they know exactly what is wrong, and can ignore all computer enthusiasts and other people trying to give them apparently sensible advice.

[SilverSolder]

The fundamental problem is that OP can't even state what exactly is wrong and nail it down with a reproducible test.

I think it is even worse than that very good summary. They seem to have enabled an automatic memory overclocking (if I understood, the earlier OP posts correctly) feature of their motherboard, but they seem to be refusing to run a memory checker (and computer stability checker) for long enough to give reliable results (e.g. overnight). Which is (overclocking), a well established way of making a computer unreliable, and fail in all sorts of weird, strange and very hard to diagnose ways.
They don't seem to have responded to my requests for windows event viewer results (which may have found errors and hence the real cause of any issues), or ping (within their favorite game) results.

Yet (Warning: Possible sarcasm and exaggeration, for dramatic effect, follows), someone in a park, half a mile from where they live, switches on an AM radio, or it rains, increasing humidity, and their 50,000+ hours of gaming experience, means they know exactly what is wrong, and can ignore all computer enthusiasts and other people trying to give them apparently sensible advice.

It's human nature.  E.g. an audiophool that just paid $5000 for a new mains cord...  he will hear a difference, for sure.  A gamer that paid $5000 for a really ace setup - is going to believe his PC is now better than anything else.   A hot rodder is going to believe his built V8 is faster than 99% of cars (even if a stock Honda Civic beats him at the traffic lights due to traction issues).  We are all affected by this syndrome to a greater or lesser extent.  E.g. test gear addiction! 

[MK14]

It's human nature.  E.g. an audiophool that just paid $5000 for a new mains cord...  he will hear a difference, for sure.  A gamer that paid $5000 for a really ace setup - is going to believe his PC is now better than anything else.   A hot rodder is going to believe his built V8 is faster than 99% of cars (even if a stock Honda Civic beats him at the traffic lights due to traction issues).  We are all affected by this syndrome to a greater or lesser extent.  E.g. test gear addiction! 

You are right. Sometimes I've fixed something, or replaced something, or got a new something. Then delightedly noticed that the new/repaired/improved one, is significantly smoother, nicer, a bit faster, and better quality than the old one. Later still, I discover that I was actually still using the old one, and all my perceived improvements were actually purely psychological.
I can't remember those previous experiences in enough detail, to describe here, so here is a made up example (but based on my typical experiences, when it happens).

(Hypothetically) My old torch (flashlight) seems a bit old, sometimes flickers on and off, needing a tap/bang to fix and seems dimmer than modern torches. So I get a new one, then later still try it out, and notice all the improvements, as above. But when I get back from the dark and can see the actual torch I was using, it was actually the old one, rather than the new one.

[ultraknur]

I recorded benchmark monitor under load. Maybe you will spot something suspicious because I couldn't.

https://streamable.com/m6b2b1

Edit:

https://streamable.com/74l9wg

https://streamable.com/1n54ax

Edit:

GPU stress test: https://streamable.com/x4aw77

[MK14]

Maybe you will spot something suspicious because I couldn't.

Is it suppose to highlight (via a tiny, filled in red tick box) certain bits in red like that, doesn't it mean it is possibly too hot for those particular tests ? EDIT: No that bit is fine.
It seems to say around 90 deg C, for the graphics hot-spot thing, which seems to sound rather high.

But I'm not sure, it could easily be fine, or not ?

Some of the cpu temps seemed on the high side as well, but depending on what load it had at the time, and your cooling solution settings. It could be ok, I guess. Or it could be near or at the throttling point, and automatically limiting the cpu speed, to keep the cpu from becoming too hot (bad).

Some graphics cards, under some conditions, can run hot.

The solution is someone very use to that particular test suite you used (or at least well versed with the expected results), to look at it and/or more/better tests.

Don't worry too much, it is relatively normal, for results to sometimes appear bad. I'm not especially familiar with that software you used.

That's why I tried to get you to use one of the computer forums, with many computer enthusiasts, who will be well familiar with the best software test suites, expected test results, how to pursue possibly faulty results. There could be such people here, but you are more likely to find them on computer enthusiast forums (and similar), especially in their graphics and/or cpu and/or gaming computer sections.

Don't worry, it could easily be fine. Just may need looking into further.

[ultraknur]

CS:GO is CPU dependent, GPU has not much to do and it's barely loaded when playing, at least in my case. As you can see throttling didn't occur. System was stable, I could browse the Internet without problems and meanwhile record it. That is interesting because surprisingly I had quite good gaming experience today but I didn't do any changes in any settings. That is really weird. Maybe in my building somebody switched off a device spreading noise all around, I don't know...

[MK14]

Maybe in my building somebody switched off a device spreading noise all around, I don't know...

Not that I want to encourage you, in any way to go in that direction. But, has any other electronic/electrical device(s) in your apartment and/or any other apartment as part of the same block/building, experienced any 'funny' behaviors that you think are related to electronic interference etc ?

[ultraknur]

Maybe in my building somebody switched off a device spreading noise all around, I don't know...

Not that I want to encourage you, in any way to go in that direction. But, has any other electronic/electrical device(s) in your apartment and/or any other apartment as part of the same block/building, experienced any 'funny' behaviors that you think are related to electronic interference etc ?

I wish I could know that BUT in my building there are a lot of seniors, like 80% of all apartments are occupied by elders and they can't afford modern electrical/electronic devices and still use ie. old cathode ray tube TVs or equipment from Soviet Union times which is definitely not fulfilling EMC requirements. I crashed into the wall and I can't move further with investigation because like I said, I can't find anybody who would do proper measurements. Having something would help me to outsource research by governmental office for electronics and telecommunication but telling them that my PC is affected in the way I can't really prove because it's based on my preception is hilarious. I hoped that somebody here had experienced anything unusual related to electricity/transformers or my harmonics result would indicate something. It seems like moving away from my current location is the only option.

[SilverSolder]

It is overwhelmingly unlikely that the problem is due to external interference.

I'd just take the machine to a friend's place and try it there, and see if it behaves any different.   Also try a friend's computer at your place.

This isn't rocket science, just an annoying bunch of legwork to eliminate the various possibilities.

[MK14]

It seems like moving away from my current location is the only option.

You don't really seem to be producing any actual evidence, of problems with stuff, let alone evidence that it might be caused by EMC issues. What I seem to be hearing from you, is that your computer, *might* be playing up in some visually detectable way, but which hasn't shown up in any computer tests, you have carried out so far.
Then you are going further, and somewhat insisting (it seems to be), that it must be EMC, because of some old CRT TV, or something.

Even if it is 100% EMC. The various logs (such as error ones), tests and things, should be showing things about the problems.

Surely you don't want to move, only to find it is just some problem with your computer's hardware/software/setup/etc, and moving doesn't make the slightest difference ?

[dervu]

Hi. I am this guy that @ultraknur mentioned.
I apparently might have fixed this issue, however that needs long time for confirmation, since with this issue connecting any filter between PC/monitor and socket affects system behavior. Often it improves for couple of days, but then it goes back to previous bad state.
Keeping same setup for long time and then doing some change like connecting some EMI/RFI filter makes noticeable change. That change can be reverted to previous state by disconnecting filter. That would usually work like that for first days, then the longer it is connected the smaller difference gets.
Generally it is better at night and worse at middle of day and evening, but it is not a rule.

It is hard to prove to anyone who didn't saw it for himself. If you play for years and then suddenly you can't do same thing anymore and drop from almost elite player level to like retarded noob level, then you know something is for real.
If logs, errors, statistics do not show anything I bet it has something to do with monitors or just those errors are not accessible for most of us?

System behavior when it is bad:
- Delayed inputs. Clicks are affected but not as much as movement, which is much more evident. It is changing in time, sometimes at same time of day it can be feeling like you drag mouse through mud, then next day it can feel light. Not physically, but in relation to what you see on monitor.
- Usually on lower power usage it is better, but not always. There are days when even on desktop without anything running at all it can feel like moving through mud.
- System is affected both offline and online. Player movement is like running with 50kg bag filled with rocks.
- Unusually fast reactions of enemies, no matter how smart you play and how fast your reactions are

For me this issue was present for very long time, since 2014-2015.
Same for laptops and PCs. Different models, different parts, different monitors.
I moved to different place for couple of months where I could have perfect behavior with exactly the same hardware and equipment, both offline and online.

At place where issue was I tried:
Hardware/electricity:
- Switching ISPs: 2 x FTTH, 1x coaxial cable, 1x 4G
- Replacing all parts in PC, one by one - researched every part model I had and replace by best one I could  get within my budget
- Replaced mousepads, keyboards, mouse
- Replacing monitor - it feels much worse on higher refresh rate monitors
- Replacing display cables HDMI, DP, DVI - difference between HDMI an DP - also used certified DP without 20pin connected
- Connecting only keyboard and mouse
- Replacing power cables to PSU - none
- Replacing powerbars - some temporary differnce
- Connecting to different sockets - no difference
- Checking electricity by electrician - all good
- Replacing old fuse box for new one - slight constant improvement
- Checking harmonics THD level - within limits
- Using different circuits in my apartment - no difference
- Running on double conversion/online UPS connected to socket in online mode for days- some temporary difference
- Running on double conversion/online UPS disconnected from socket for half an hour - some temporary difference
- Running on double conversion/online UPS disconnected from socket and disabled mains half an hour - no difference
- Disabling all devices from sockets for 1 hour - no difference
Disabling old radio from socket for 24hr - only that made significant difference that is comparable to the other place I lived in - now I am checking how long it lasts.
Connecting other devices to same socket, other radios doesn't make it worse.
- Moving routers (they were closer to the faulty radio) to other room (that gave some slight improvement)
- Using Schaffner FN700Z filter - big improvement at first, but then again worse after 2 weeks
- Using isolation transformer - some improvement, seems like works best with FN700Z filter but again it doesn't last long enough
- Using ferrite toroids on cables, not only whole cables, but also separated live and neutral - that made big difference at first, it lasted for a week or more but then it was bad again


From software side:
- Running different Windows version
- Running Ubuntu
- Different drivers for anything, chipset, network, GPU (using DDU for removing old drivers also)
- Updating UEFI, GPU bios, SSD firmware
- Tons of tweaks on Windows, that are on level of placebo
- Disabling all OC/XMP in UEFI
- Checking memory with memtest and system stability for many hours with Prime95, OCCT, Cinebench
- Checking for thermal throttling, recording data with HwInfo during gaming, frametimes ale normal - nothing
- Switching hardware to MSI mode
- Running with cap framerate, uncap framerate, G-Sync on/off
- Disabling all unnecessary things in system.

That list could go like that for couple of more pages, but it is pointless when you don't change anything in system and just move PC in exact same configuration to another place and it works flawlessly.

Also I contacted with regulatory institituion for interference and all they could tell me is that if anything affected PC it would have to be really close.
Without something they could see themselves (such as some artifacts on monitor) or some data on PC related to something happening on their spectrum analyzers, they couldn't proceed further.
But during conversation with them I got an idea to disconnect some devices for really long time. So there goes my old radio - now during assessment time, to see if it holds for really long time.
Also I suspected VFDs in elevator  equipment that was renovated in similiar time my issue started, but that is in progress. That would be only device strong enough to spew wide range of RFI.

I am thinking about building some device that would move small mousepad under mouse to have consistent input and try to record this movement with 240fps camera for two cases:
- When interference is present
- When interference is not present
and compare videos.

It is probably one of things anyone can do to prove this.
Another thing is nvidla latency analyzer in some new high refresh rate monitors. I know one case when it was displaying unusually high numbers for someone who has this issue also.

If conversion from AC to DC in PSU doesn't let any interference in, PC is in kind of faraday cage and monitor is not. Then it makes monitor weakest point, right? If strong enough interference could travel far enough/is close enough to disrupt anything in monitor/PC, then it would be the weakest point to go through that path through GPU, right?
If it was affecting anything without any errors visible on level that we have access to, then maybe it happens on the level that isn't available to regular users? Like something that engineers would only know and could access?
For example error correction at GDDR5 and GDDR6X memory in nvidia cards?
I doubt that manufacturers check their equipment in all EMI/RFI spectrum to check if it doesn't lag. That error correction might have been implemented for other reasons, but who knows if it is not also affected by interference?
It might be rare case, but it is definitely real and really hard and expensive to troubleshoot.

[ultraknur]

System behavior when it is bad:
- Delayed inputs. Clicks are affected but not as much as movement, which is much more evident. It is changing in time, sometimes at same time of day it can be feeling like you drag mouse through mud, then next day it can feel light. Not physically, but in relation to what you see on monitor.
- Usually on lower power usage it is better, but not always. There are days when even on desktop without anything running at all it can feel like moving through mud.
- System is affected both offline and online. Player movement is like running with 50kg bag filled with rocks.
- Unusually fast reactions of enemies, no matter how smart you play and how fast your reactions are

Exactly the same issues on my side. Most of troubleshooting trials you mentioned I've done already long time ago and it is extremely difficult to prove that problem exist, if you're not much into gaming.

https://streamable.com/vu1six It's my experience when playing against skilled players for last 3 years (these 2 bullet holes on the wall were made before he hit me, with ping 8ms).

[MK14]

You really need (ideally), to split this unexpected 'latency' issue while gaming sometimes, into one of a number of possible high level causes.
Is it that your ISP service(s), introduced a delay, during that actual shooting sequence ?

Is it that your computer introduced a latency, because of problems with your computer hardware/drivers/software ?

Is it a problem with your incoming mains supply (doesn't really seem to be the cause here) ?

Is it EMI/EMC issues (doesn't really make that much sense either, except maybe with the monitor, but probably still not very likely) ?

Is your monitor, having EMI/EMC issues (or other reasons on why it might lag, sometimes, e.g. compatibility), e.g. with the leads picking up stuff, can the monitor diagnose such issues, and report failed screen updates to you ?

There are (I would imagine), specialist forums (computer-technical-high-end-gaming ones), with people who have the same or very similar concerns and issues, as yourselves. I'm convinced they would know how to get to the bottom of such problems. There could be specialist software, diagnostics, tests, error logs, maybe even ISP monitoring/checking software tests. Because some of the people at such places, would know how to check and diagnose ISP latency (if that is the right word), issues. Such as occasional packet losses/delays, and so on.

My hunch is it is problems with your internet, given you are trying to always get 100% reliable, very, very fast communication LATENCIES. Most customers, don't need or notice, an extra 10 milliseconds on very rare occasions (perhaps). But for high end gaming, it really matters for you, as you can lose the match/game. But that is just a hunch, there are many different possible causes, of varying likelihood.

[MK14]

In summary, to wrap up.

it is extremely difficult to prove that problem exist, if you're not much into gaming.

Which is why I'm continually recommending gaming related (technical computer help forums).

My suspicion is that you have already tried those places. Where they didn't accept the fact that you weren't prepared to listen to them, perform the detailed steps to confirm/deny what was going on, and came up with theories, that most other people are not convinced about (e.g. humidity, or some distant old CRT TV, which may have nothing to do with anything).

[MK14]

Often it improves for couple of days, but then it goes back to previous bad state.

That's not really rigorous or proof of anything very much. When you say 'Often' you are basically/potentially mean 50% of the time it does and 50% of the time it doesn't. Also, the fact that after a relatively short while it starts making no difference, again.
Probably means, you are trying a fix, by sheer luck the problem (which this thread seems to say it occurs occasionally over a 3 year period, if I understand things correctly), also it perhaps represents a mere 5 milliseconds extra delay (or some kind of temporary frame drop, or something), every few hours, once or twice a week, sometimes/maybe.

I'm NOT trying to make fun, but I am trying to illustrate the possible problems with your methods.

Analogy:
I give you my magic soap rock, with powerful anti-gremlin psycho-energy powers, which fixes all gaming rig issues. You believe me, and try it. On some games, some of the time, it really works, or at least the problem doesn't appear, on some days.

So what would really be happening is that through sheer luck/coincidence, your games work for a limited period of time, and you might (probably incorrectly), believe that it is because of the magic soap rock, I gave you. I.e. It is more of a psychological effect, where you think the observations have 'fixed your computer'.

On this forum, we have a name for it, and a place for such threads. Called 'Audiophile Audiophoolery'. Which normally applies to some people who are overly concerned about their hifi/audio equipment, but the concept may also apply to someone overly concerned about their gaming rig/setup and how 'special EMC filters' and stuff are affecting their gaming rig/setup.



tl;dr
If you have a very rare intermittent fault, and doing something about it, sometimes seems to fix it, for a very short while, then it becomes faulty again. It is very likely, you didn't really fix it. It was just luck, because it is a rare intermittent fault, not something which occurs all the time.

[dervu]

It was working like that with another "fixes" months ago.
This is why I have that rule to wait really long time, to avoid those placebo fixes, like many people do - having one more fix every day. 
For now it is working really well without any changes for long enough time, but I am waiting even longer.

I catch your point with that proof.
The thing is, without any data you can't really tell specific how often, how bad it is.
With 1000fps cam and consistent input tests, sure. Having specific amount of delay in ms when it is bad compared to no delay when it is good would be rigorous.
Unfortunately proving is expensive in this case.

Now I am getting some decent enough spectrum analyzer to really find out if there is any weird interference with my old radio compared to other good radios.
At least that will be something close to proof - if it correlates with changes observable on PC.
This is the approach that pros from regulatory institution talked about. They need something to correlate with interference present on spectrum analyzer.
But they would need hours to even comprehend what this is about (notice those changes in behavior) and they do not have enough time for that.
Maybe if I would get this device closer to PC then there would be some artifacts on screen that would be good enough for them.
For me it is easier to tell if something is wrong than for them, now with that spectrum analyzer I at least have something to work with.

[magic]

Consumer point and shoot cameras can do slow motion at 120~240fps with VGA resolution or HD if you are lucky.
Should be enough to see if mouse cursor moves?

[MK14]

It was working like that with another "fixes" months ago.
This is why I have that rule to wait really long time, to avoid those placebo fixes, like many people do - having one more fix every day. 
For now it is working really well without any changes for long enough time, but I am waiting even longer.

I catch your point with that proof.
The thing is, without any data you can't really tell specific how often, how bad it is.
With 1000fps cam and consistent input tests, sure. Having specific amount of delay in ms when it is bad compared to no delay when it is good would be rigorous.
Unfortunately proving is expensive in this case.

Now I am getting some decent enough spectrum analyzer to really find out if there is any weird interference with my old radio compared to other good radios.
At least that will be something close to proof - if it correlates with changes observable on PC.
This is the approach that pros from regulatory institution talked about. They need something to correlate with interference present on spectrum analyzer.
But they would need hours to even comprehend what this is about (notice those changes in behavior) and they do not have enough time for that.
Maybe if I would get this device closer to PC then there would be some artifacts on screen that would be good enough for them.
For me it is easier to tell if something is wrong than for them, now with that spectrum analyzer I at least have something to work with.

That sounds better. At least with the 'spectrum analyzer', you can see if there are spurious signals, and hopefully by seeing them, what frequency(s) they are at, begin to fathom out what might be going on. Also, by moving around, you can have more insight into where it might be coming from.
But really, PCs are so complicated and feature rich these days. There are a ridiculously large number of things which can be slightly mal-performing, on very rare occasions (hardware/software/drivers/settings/OS/windows-updates/other-installed-software/firmware-updates/motherboard-settings/etc). Which most people wouldn't notice, but a 240fps fast shooting game might make the difference between getting your hit(s) in, and wondering why you didn't get the success you wanted.

[Nominal Animal]

Do you use wired or wireless controllers?

RF interference could easily affect wireless controllers.  Depending on the protocol (proprietary like Logitech, or BT/BTLE), interference could cause retransmissions; similar to how bad network connection can cause packet loss and increased round-trip times (ping).

If I were OP, I would start logging the processor frequencies and temperatures long-term, and try to correlate any observed issues with changes in temperature or CPU core frequencies.

[ultraknur]

Do you use wired or wireless controllers?

RF interference could easily affect wireless controllers.  Depending on the protocol (proprietary like Logitech, or BT/BTLE), interference could cause retransmissions; similar to how bad network connection can cause packet loss and increased round-trip times (ping).

If I were OP, I would start logging the processor frequencies and temperatures long-term, and try to correlate any observed issues with changes in temperature or CPU core frequencies.

I have wireless mouse Razer Basilisk Ultimate so it's pretty decent equipment and contrary to appearances it gives me better experience than wired.

[Nominal Animal]

I wish I could help you better measure things on your computer.  (I can't, because I do not have Windows; and even if I showed you how to do these tests in Linux, it would tell very little about your problem, because it is almost certainly Windows-specific.)

For example, I just checked the touchpad and the nipple joystick on my HP EliteBook 840 G4 laptop.  The touchpad has 11ms to 60ms report intervals, and the nipple joystick has 5ms to 25ms report intervals, as measured by an userspace program (less than 150 lines of Linux-specific C code).

I could easily check the event report roundtrip time (using USB HID, and force feedback events) with a Teensy, and with an optotransistor or optoresistor, measure the event report to display change latency.  It would only take a rather simple Arduino (Teensyduino) sketch, an optotransistor or optoresistor, and possibly a current-limiting resistor for the opto, connected to an analog input pin to allow for reliable level detection.  However, it also requires a test program run on the target machine, one that changes an area on the display from bright to dark whenever it receives an input event (say, mouse movement) from the Teensy (pretending to be a standard gamepad/joystick/keyboard/mouse; no drivers to install).  I can do that for Linux, but Windows.... Also, you probably don't have a Teensy 4.0 or 4.1 microcontroller.  It would be even better to have two or three optotransistors, so that one could use the pattern to ensure synchronicity, and detect missing/dropped input events.

A similar test can be done using TCP and UDP packets over the network.  TCP is a connection-oriented protocol, and UDP is connectionless (and ISPs can drop UDP packets due to network congestion and other reasons).  You just need two computers running suitable software in two different locations, so that they can connect each other over the network (IP protocol).  The software sends data over, tracking the round-trip time (and for UDP, the number of lost packets), by having each packet have an identifier both ends can track.  A simple counter works.

Game servers that let you test 'ping' do exactly that: they provide a service that reflects each packet back to its sender, and your own local machine just measures the round-trip time.  On the really good ones, the server also sends packets that your local machine responds to, so that the server too measures the round-trip time.  The protocol (TCP or UDP over IP) and the size of the packets should match whatever that particular game uses, for the metric to be meaningful.
(The name 'ping' comes from the fact that the ICMP protocol used for checking connectivity between internet hosts has dedicated 'echo request' and 'echo response' packets that the venerable ping utility uses to check connectivity between hosts. traceroute does much the same, but also causes each host or device in between to send a response back to the sender, so that the sender can track which hosts/devices the packet travels via on its way to the destination.)

[ultraknur]

Unfortunately iperf3 results didn't indicate any problems (I am not sure about that 119 retransmissions from server to client)

Test has been made with TCP and UDP packets from client to server and opposite:

[Nominal Animal]

(I do not play games online, so my opinion here is from someone who has done server-side backends a long, long time ago.  Hopefully, those who know more about current game networking needs, can post their opinion here too.)

(I am not sure about that 119 retransmissions from server to client)

It does not look bad at all, as causing TCP retransmissions is how ISPs limit bandwidth.

Only if they were all grouped in time (so that during the 300 seconds of the test, there were seconds during which the bandwidth dropped below say 50% of the average), would I consider the connection problematic/congested.

The first two look like a fairly typical TCP test for a 11 Mbit/s upload, 85 Mbit/s download network connection.

The third and fourth are UDP tests using 8192-byte payload (rather large for a game?), without any lost UDP packets.  I wonder what the test with 508-byte UDP packets would show; this is a common size that should never be fragmented.  I do not expect the results to differ too much.  Choose the total bandwidth to match (say 80% of) the requirements of some existing online game.

During those 300 seconds, I'd say the network connection –– both bandwidth and latency –– look absolutely fine, if the output dumps looked roughly like the screenshots during the entire test.

As said, I just don't know how well the test matches what current online games use.  I'd definitely retest the UDP test with 508-byte packets, though.  One could use e.g. Wireshark to dump some of the game traffic to see the typical packet size and bandwidth needed; the exact contents would not be interesting.  But it does not look like the network connection has any issues to me.

[ultraknur]

CS:GO sends 1200 bytes packets.

Attached iperf3 result for 508 bytes packet size. Looks good and I am not happy about that because it pretty rules out internet connection problems and desync issue seems to be unfixable in my place. The same I had with different ISP using its own infrastructure.

I found many discussions about clockdrift in games and there is no answer what actually causes it.

Additionally, when I am spectating my teammates, very often they shoot 0.5-1m away from a moving enemy. As you can see my internet connection looks fine and this is complete nonsense.

Understanding interpolation is important in designing for lag compensation because interpolation is another type of latency in a user's experience. To the extent that a player is looking at other objects that have been interpolated, then the amount of interpolation must be taken into consideration in computing, on the server, whether the player's aim was true.

Lag compensation is a method of normalizing server-side the state of the world for each player as that player's user commands are executed. You can think of lag compensation as taking a step back in time, on the server, and looking at the state of the world at the exact instant that the user performed some action. The algorithm works as follows:

    Before executing a player's current user command, the server:
        Computes a fairly accurate latency for the player
        Searches the server history (for the current player) for the world update that was sent to the player and received by the player just before the player would have issued the movement command
        From that update (and the one following it based on the exact target time being used), for each player in the update, move the other players backwards in time to exactly where they were when the current player's user command was created. This moving backwards must account for both connection latency and the interpolation amount8 the client was using that frame.
    Allow the user command to execute (including any weapon firing commands, etc., that will run ray casts against all of the other players in their "old" positions).
    Move all of the moved/time-warped players back to their correct/current positions

Note that in the step where we move the player backwards in time, this might actually require forcing additional state info backwards, too (for instance, whether the player was alive or dead or whether the player was ducking). The end result of lag compensation is that each local client is able to directly aim at other players without having to worry about leading his or her target in order to score a hit. Of course, this behavior is a game design tradeoff.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Latency_Compensating_Methods_in_Client/Server_In-game_Protocol_Design_and_Optimization#Lag_Compensation

Assuming on this I can say, that lag compensation on my side is completely f**ked. If the game itself tries to create accurate locations for everybody why isn't it working for me? It happens in every online game.

In attached photo you can see roughly the difference between what I see and what server registered.

[MK14]

desync issue

What exactly do you mean by desync issue ?

How often does it occur ?

Does it show any patterns when it occurs, such as a particular time of day (I think you said it is usually during the day, rather than late at night) ?

[ultraknur]

desync issue

What exactly do you mean by desync issue ?

How often does it occur ?

Does it show any patterns when it occurs, such as a particular time of day (I think you said it is usually during the day, rather than late at night) ?

By desync I mean huge mismatch between what is happening on a server and what is happening on my screen. With desync you can forget about professional gaming where tenths of milliseconds matters and on my PC this is the severest case of it I've ever seen in my life.

It happens especially at peak times for internet congestion (on weekends I have most extreme cases, there is no point to start any match because I know already what I can expect). I can feel some relief on early morning but it was never satisfying me when comparing to performance I saw on my own eyes (read: everything working perfect). It doesn't happen for my buddies using same ISP in different locations in my city what is interesting.

[MK14]

By desync I mean huge mismatch between what is happening on a server and what is happening on my screen. With desync you can forget about professional gaming where tenths of milliseconds matters and on my PC this is the severest case of it I've ever seen in my life.

It happens especially at peak times for internet congestion (on weekends I have most extreme cases, there is no point to start any match because I know already what I can expect). I can feel some relief on early morning but it was never satisfying me when comparing to performance I saw on my own eyes (read: everything working perfect). It doesn't happen for my buddies using same ISP in different locations in my city what is interesting.

I'm just throwing ideas on the table for you. What if you used something like Wireshark, to keep a record of the communications between your computer and the game server. Ideally, do it both while it works perfectly (at a quiet time) and at a very busy time, when it desync's (shows your issues). Then try and compare them and/or post here or places, so people can study them (assuming there is no privacy concerns with the information, which there could be, if any unencrypted passwords or other private information was in it), so maybe don't post it ?
Ideally, you want it to show the timings and other details, I suspect. Maybe there are better packages to use. Hopefully it doesn't affect the gameplay characteristics, significantly ?
For your game, I don't know how readable the datapackets are.

The connection with congested internet periods, would tend to put internet connections, high up an the list of suspects, that might be causing this issue. Do you know if your connection to the ISP, is mostly/all optical fiber ?, or does it still use copper cables ?

[Nominal Animal]

I.e. You are showing that it worked on one occasion.

Absolutely true; that's why I wrote "during those 300 seconds".  (And the most recent iperf test also looks absolutely fine.)

Cttached iperf3 result for 508 bytes packet size. Looks good and I am not happy about that

True also.

Yet, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  Depending on how often the issue occurs, one might have to run quite long tests to reproduce the glitch.
For example, whenever I build a new desktop or server machine, I always run memtest over the weekend (48 hours or longer).

I found many discussions about clockdrift in games and there is no answer what actually causes it.

Basically, each computer has an internal clock (actually several, but let's concentrate on the one we call "real time clock", that measures wall clock time; there is also a battery-backed up Real Time Clock that maintains a rough real time clock when the computer is powered off on all x86-64 based machines, but that's not relevant here).
It has limited precision, and may drift somewhat (due to temperature and other reasons).  If two different computers clocks differ by 1%, it amounts to over 14 minutes per day.  If the game server and the client machine disagree on the time, odd things may happen (because clock drift is a bit difficult to handle in the physics modeling, without requiring every single event to be routed through the game server).

Depending on the processor, the CPU cycle counter may not be stable (the rate may vary too often to measure real time effectively), so typically a HPET (High Precision Event Timer) is used.  Unfortunately, depending on the processor (and possibly motherboard), the HPET timer may not be stable either.  Because it is up to the operating system –– Windows, in your case –– to choose what to use, I do believe you can experiment by disabling or enabling HPET.

On servers, Network Time Protocol is often used.  On my own Linux machines, I also use it.  It keeps the time synchronized to free time servers on the internet; I use the NTP Public Services Project localized NTP pools (fi.pool.ntp.org in my particular case), but many ISPs also provide their own NTP servers (often on the main gateway), because it is quite lightweight protocol.  For example, this particular laptop is right now about 3ms ahead of the pool servers.  (Linux (and Android and MacOS) uses a funky NTP time adjustment scheme, where the apparent clock rate is sped up or slowed down to eventually match, instead of "jumping" the clock to immediately match the NTP servers.  I suspect, but cannot confirm, that Windows does the same.)  I do recommend having this enabled in Windows, too, to keep the clock difference between your machine and game servers to a minimum.

It happens especially at peak times for internet congestion (on weekends I have most extreme cases, there is no point to start any match because I know already what I can expect).

You need to redo the iperf tests at a peak time for internet congestion, and preferably immediately after an (attempted) online gaming session.  This best simulates a continued gaming session, and should have the best chance of capturing network glitches, if the problem is (even partly) due to networking issues.

Depending on population density, the congestion could be at the 'last mile', i.e. the actual ethernet or fiber capacity to your house/building is limited by the very first connection outwards, as it is serving too many customers.  It may be the same hardware regardless of the ISP (simply because it is the only cable coming from the neighborhood hub to your particular home), and just does not have enough bandwidth to serve you and your neighbors; especially so for FTTP.

For 4G/LTE, the situation is a bit different, because there the congestion depends the base station your modem connects to, and using a bit better antennae can boost your connection slightly over others'.  (Modems supporting dual antennae can often much better deal with reflections, when there is no clear line of sight to the base station.) But there too it depends on how many human customers the base station serves; the physical bandwidth is limited.

[MK14]

By desync I mean huge mismatch between what is happening on a server and what is happening on my screen. With desync you can forget about professional gaming where tenths of milliseconds matters and on my PC this is the severest case of it I've ever seen in my life.

That's sad, if you want to use the setup for serious gaming. It must be very annoying, to lose a match, frag or competition. Simply because of this desync issue. It probably throws you off course for a bit, I suspect, as well (disorientating).

Do you know what the most common list of causes of desync are for your game ?
I.e. A recommended list of things to check out and common (and uncommon) causes ?

[MK14]

For example, whenever I build a new desktop or server machine, I always run memtest over the weekend (48 hours or longer).

Very good advice, because bad memory is a somewhat common cause of hardware problems.
Compared to many other hardware issues.
What about if it was ECC memory. Would you still do the 48 hour tests ?
(I suppose you would, then you'd check the applicable error log, afterwards. If the Memory checker, doesn't pick up on it anyway). ECC gets confusing, because it can hide 1 bit (normally always correctable) errors, unless you look at the error logs.

Some memory faults take a lot longer to detect (hence needing to run it for a long time, like the 48 hours mentioned above), and the large memory capacities that modern machines might have, also seem to mean it takes that much longer, to go through it all.

[Nominal Animal]

What about if it was ECC memory. Would you still do the 48 hour tests ?

Definitely.  If obtainable, I'd check the ECC logs/statistics; if not, I'd just run a longer test.  I do not tolerate memory errors at all.

After passing that check, I'd test both storage and CPU (cooling).  For spinning drives, I mostly relied on SMART attributes; they're not "reliable" (in the sense of predicting failures), but they do catch Monday units (the really crappy ones that proper quality control should have caught).  For CPU, I run various CPU burning utilities for a few hours, measuring the core temperatures and the CPU frequencies to see continued steady state operation, and things like thermal throttling.  (However, I prefer low-TDP processors and huge heatsinks and silent machines, because I don't have a well ventilated but soundproof closet to keep a noisy one in.)  For the first year, I check kernel logs whenever I see anything that feels odd.

You could say I use my intuition and gut feeling as a reason to gather metrics and analyse the system and situation, because I do not trust my senses alone.

That is, I know that my senses can be affected by things like flickering fluorescent lights and so on, and cannot tell whether an issue is in the hardware or in my perception, unless I can find numbers that correlate with my observations.  For example, I vary the brightness of my display almost hourly through the day, to keep eye stress to a minimum.  If I do not, stuff like fluorescent lights in my kitchen can become irritating.  Because I am addicted to problem solving, finding the mechanism (or underlying reasons) for such oddities is kinda like another hobby to me.

[MK14]

What about if it was ECC memory. Would you still do the 48 hour tests ?

Definitely.  If obtainable, I'd check the ECC logs/statistics; if not, I'd just run a longer test.  I do not tolerate memory errors at all.

After passing that check, I'd test both storage and CPU (cooling).  For spinning drives, I mostly relied on SMART attributes; they're not "reliable" (in the sense of predicting failures), but they do catch Monday units (the really crappy ones that proper quality control should have caught).  For CPU, I run various CPU burning utilities for a few hours, measuring the core temperatures and the CPU frequencies to see continued steady state operation, and things like thermal throttling.  (However, I prefer low-TDP processors and huge heatsinks and silent machines, because I don't have a well ventilated but soundproof closet to keep a noisy one in.)  For the first year, I check kernel logs whenever I see anything that feels odd.

You could say I use my intuition and gut feeling as a reason to gather metrics and analyse the system and situation, because I do not trust my senses alone.

That is, I know that my senses can be affected by things like flickering fluorescent lights and so on, and cannot tell whether an issue is in the hardware or in my perception, unless I can find numbers that correlate with my observations.  For example, I vary the brightness of my display almost hourly through the day, to keep eye stress to a minimum.  If I do not, stuff like fluorescent lights in my kitchen can become irritating.  Because I am addicted to problem solving, finding the mechanism (or underlying reasons) for such oddities is kinda like another hobby to me.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease. If I was setting up a very long time (>= 48 hours) ECC memory checker running. I'd be tearing myself to pieces, thinking that it was silly to check (automatically self-checking) ECC memory. What you just said, makes a lot of sense. One wants to make sure that you haven't bought duff ECC modules, early on. While the possible guarantee return window is still open and/or weeding out faulty modules early on, should help with computer (Ram) reliability.

In the past, when CRT monitors were common place. I found their flicker could be (at lower refresh rates), rather noticeable, annoying and tiring/unsuitable for anything beyond, brief usage. For reasons that I don't really properly understand why. But since LCD screens, that seems to have largely removed that problem. I suspect/understand, that it is probably largely (or more) because of LCDs significantly slower update speed and/or because CRTs not only flash on and off at the frame rate, but the entire picture is drawn in brief scan lines, which rapidly fade, long before even a small part of the rest of that page is drawn. I.e. It is relying on the eyes persistence of vision, to even see the moving picture.
I didn't know that at the time, but there are extremely high speed photography pictures, of how CRT monitors, draw out the computer images, which demonstrates how it is working.
I.e. I thought it was flashing at perhaps 75 times a second (it is), but the primary flashing is at a considerably higher flash rate i.e. a couple or so of lines at a time. Let me show you (the first couple of minutes has it in various time places):



Whereas (also shown in the video), LCD is more of a show an entire page (even at slow-mo speeds). Which maybe is part/all of the reason, I have much less visual issues with LCDs and their (often unchangeable anyway) refresh rates.

I think part of the OP's issues, is that they are able to detect certain display image defects. But they can't necessarily point a finger as to what is precisely wrong with the images (game). In some extreme situations they can, like the image(s) of them firing the gun in one image, but what the server sees, is different, and doesn't have a firing gun image in it. But in others, the OP can sense issues, but not really be certain as to why it looks 'funny'/wrong.

[ultraknur]

I appreciate all your efforts guys and thank you but I think I'll just give up. It's basically unfixable however everything seems to be normal according to the tests. The last resort is to ask my neighbour if they have magnetron behind my wall. Maybe somebody else will find good solutions in this thread.

[Nominal Animal]

Thanks for putting my mind at ease. If I was setting up a very long time (>= 48 hours) ECC memory checker running. I'd be tearing myself to pieces, thinking that it was silly to check (automatically self-checking) ECC memory. What you just said, makes a lot of sense. One wants to make sure that you haven't bought duff ECC modules, early on. While the possible guarantee return window is still open and/or weeding out faulty modules early on, should help with computer (Ram) reliability.

It also catches problems like duff voltage regulators on the motherboard.  (I've had one on a Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard explode: literally crater itself with a very loud POP!.)

Such "long" tests are especially useful when self-building a machine, because things like not seating a memory module properly are easy to miss since one does it so rarely.  As long as one uses the same BIOS/EFI memory timings, it also ensures that when one installs an OS on it, any immediate problems are just installation issues and not hardware issues.  Running an iobench or similar benchmarks for storage also gives you a metric to compare against when starting using the system.

(When I ran machines with local spinny-disk RAID clusters, I also experimented with the settings a bit before installing an OS to ensure I got "near-optimal" performance.  Once again, I wasn't actually looking for "the best settings", but the settings that didn't have any obvious drawbacks or weaknesses.  I also weigh scattered small (4k) I/O much more than normal storage benchmarks, because it is much closer to my real life usage on desktops.)

Also, the system burn-in process can easily take me a couple of days, because I then also experiment with the placement of the chassis fans and baffles, and the fan speeds.  (Remember, my target is not a high-wattage cooling system, but a silent one, using a 65W to 95W total-thermal-product CPU.)

In the past, when CRT monitors were common place. I found their flicker could be (at lower refresh rates), rather noticeable, annoying and tiring/unsuitable for anything beyond, brief usage. For reasons that I don't really properly understand why.

My first home installations of Linux were dual-booted to a command-line interface, with a custom 132x43 modeset on a Number Nine VESA graphics card with a 85+ Hz refresh rate on a NEC Multisync 17" monitor.  (I even did my own text reader program with soft (scanline-based) scrolling on it, first using Turbo Pascal in DOS.)
The flicker was a big problem for me, too.

But since LCD screens, that seems to have largely removed that problem.

The backlight generates the light, and the LCD only absorbs some of it.  The two are not at all synchronized, and the backlight are run at much higher frequencies.  (I don't know exactly what the frequencies are, and what the flicker amplitude in terms of light actually is, but the difference is so large that cats and dogs, who didn't really see the image from most ordinary CRTs due to the flicker, now see most LCD screens as humans do.)

I appreciate all your efforts guys and thank you but I think I'll just give up. It's basically unfixable however everything seems to be normal according to the tests. The last resort is to ask my neighbour if they have magnetron behind my wall. Maybe somebody else will find good solutions in this thread.

There is still one more experiment you can try: temporarily move your gaming computer to a friend's place, to see if the rig exhibits the same problems there or not.

If the rig exhibits the same problems there, you know it is the computer that is at fault.  (It will not tell what is wrong, only that it is something about the machine or Windows installation.)

If the rig does not exhibit the problems there, you know the problem occurs because of your home somehow, and the only real way to get rid of it is to move.

[MK14]

I appreciate all your efforts guys and thank you but I think I'll just give up. It's basically unfixable however everything seems to be normal according to the tests. The last resort is to ask my neighbour if they have magnetron behind my wall. Maybe somebody else will find good solutions in this thread.

Sometimes giving up, and moving on, is the best course of action. Not all problems can be realistically solved. Otherwise people could go through life, trying to solve a particular problem, and get nothing else sorted out, ever.
Not all purchases, turn out as expected or intended. Some turn out sour.

One last thing. If you use the gaming machine in a fast 240fps?, single player first person shooter game, N.B. while NOT gaming with other players over the internet. Does it still exhibit these problems ?
E.g. Some allow you to play single player and have bots to play against in matches.

Because if it doesn't (show any problems), that would tend to imply that your computer is basically fine, and whatever EMI/EMC issues (which probably are not the cause, anyway), is NOT affecting your computer.

But if it does still exhibit the problem, then that basically rules out the internet (connections). As you would be playing locally, against Game AI bots. Ideally don't have the internet connected (running) at all, if possible (game authorization might be tricky, but steam does allow off-line capabilities).
To rule out internet things glitching/affecting your computer, but anyway NOT connecting to the game server, would perform most of the test, even if the internet is still running/connected.

[ultraknur]

Yes, it still exhibits the problems. First of all it's not adequately smooth. Even G-Sync doesn't seem to help. On desktop when moving objects they slightly "vibrate" and cursor gets some kind of acceleration which makes it impossible to move cursor at same speed from point A to B (however mouse acceleration is 100% off in the settings). If I have to guess, I think that not only my PC is affected but also my ISP's equipment in the building.

[MK14]

Yes, it still exhibits the problems. First of all it's not adequately smooth. Even G-Sync doesn't seem to help. On desktop when moving objects they slightly "vibrate" and cursor gets some kind of acceleration which makes it impossible to move cursor at same speed from point A to B (however mouse acceleration is 100% off in the settings). If I have to guess, I think that not only my PC is affected but also my ISP's equipment in the building.

That's good, because that is eliminating your ISP/internet, as being the main cause of the problem. Which narrows it down, and gets us closer to solving your problem. It seems quite a lot of people on the internet, have problems similar to how you describe.

Does the following link, describe your problems and/or help ?

https://computerinfobits.com/micro-stuttering-in-games/

[SilverSolder]

Yes, it still exhibits the problems. First of all it's not adequately smooth. Even G-Sync doesn't seem to help. On desktop when moving objects they slightly "vibrate" and cursor gets some kind of acceleration which makes it impossible to move cursor at same speed from point A to B (however mouse acceleration is 100% off in the settings). If I have to guess, I think that not only my PC is affected but also my ISP's equipment in the building.

I have owned countless PCs since they first came out, and I have seen that kind of behaviour (desktop objects slightly "vibrate" when dragged with the mouse, the mouse cursor doesn't move smoothly / is slightly laggy).   In all cases, it was something to do with the PC itself, not external factors. 

The troubleshooting method that has worked best for me in the past has always been to strip the PC to the minimum configuration that will boot...   one stick of RAM, one CPU (if it is a multi socket mobo), simplest graphics, basic OS install.   Does that misbehave?  if no, start adding parts back in.

[dervu]

It might also be some faulty component which symptoms are exacerbated by interference?
Idk if it makes sense.
That would be only ruled out by having multiple PCs checked at same place and another place.
If one of PCs behaves different and others do not, then it is related to hardware.
If most/all of  PCs behave different, then it is probably related to interference. Unless all hardware is prone to interference. 

[MK14]

It might also be some faulty component which symptoms are exacerbated by interference?

I don't think I've heard of such a phenomenon. Basically if a PC component, such as a RAM module is faulty, then it is faulty. Interference doesn't really come into it. If the PC has faulty components, they really need to be replaced.
Assuming you have got a normal (all metal) PC case, without clear windowed areas, perhaps for flashing RGB lights. Even so, interference shouldn't mess up the PC, unless it was really, really extreme. In which case you would expect other household equipment to have issues as well.

Faulty PC components is a somewhat common problem with PCs, especially over a long period of time. But one doesn't seem to hear of PCs being interfered (EMI/EMC) with, usually.
Except for maybe any wireless connections (WiFi, Mouse/Keyboard), which can be interfered with, which might make them not perform too well.

But I have heard of stories (but reasonably rarely), where the incoming mains supply is very bad (especially as regards its voltage and Earthing), which can make the PC problematic, such as regular reboots and things. But then you probably would notice your room lights going funny at times (going dim, flickering or not lasting very long). In such cases, the solution is to get a proper qualified electrician to diagnose and fix it.

[Nominal Animal]

Here are the key components of ultraknur's system:

• Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X.
  Overclockable processor with default TDP of 105W.
• Memory: G.SKILL 32GB 3600MHz CL16 TridentZ RGB Neo.
  In the Asus Qualified Memory Vendor List, the only G.Skill 16MB 3600MHz CL16 modules are those using SK Hynix chips; the otherwise similar CL17 modules using Samsung chips are also listed.
• Motherboard: Asus TUF Gaming X570-PLUS.
  AMD Ryzen 7 5800X CPU is supported by this motherboard in BIOS 2607 and later.
• Graphics card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 3070 Aorus Master 8GB.
  According to TechPowerup, the TDP of this card is about 220W.
• Power supply: BE QUIET! Straight Power 11 750W 80 Plus Gold.
  Should fulfill the needs of this system.

I do not believe the memory modules are an issue, because memory issues show up as instability and crashes, not performance glitches.
Every component in isolation seems fine for this setup, and assuming the motherboard BIOS version is 2607 or later, they should work fine together.

ultraknur mentioned they use AiO cooling solution (closed-loop liquid cooling).  This got me thinking.

TDP is Thermal Design Power, and is basically a measure of how much waste heat the part produces that must be, uh, excreted outside the enclosure.  105W from the CPU and 220W from the GPU is not that much to get rid of using a closed-loop cooling system, but what about the rest of the motherboard?
There are all kinds of additional chips from voltage regulators (actually DC-DC converter banks) to bus logic that do heat up.

ultraknur, do you have adequate intake and exhaust fans in the enclosure to keep the air within the enclosure at a reasonable level, say < 40°C?
Double AiO for the GPU and the CPU without any enclosure fans is definitely not sufficient.
And have you verified your airflow pattern inside the enclosure to fully mix the air inside the enclosure, without "pockets" of non-mixing, hot air?

The best device to use for this is a normal indoor-outdoor thermometer with an external sensor, since their sensors are designed to measure air temperature, and they're quite cheap and ubiquitous.  A few degrees off is not that important either, as you really are just comparing the air temperature outside the enclosure, to air temperature inside the enclosure at a specific spot.  Of course, you do need to close the enclosure fully, to get relevant measurements.  Using one of the holes at the back of the enclosure to slip the sensor through, works.

Thermal throttling could well explain the slowdowns and lagging, but I don't know the X570 chipset well enough to say for sure if the chipset can cause thermal throttling, and whether say the chipset thermal throttling due to too high ambient temperature within the enclosure could explain the symptoms.  According to Wikipedia, the X570 chip itself has about 15W TDP; not that much, but not completely insignificant either.

(I am aware that ultraknur does not see any excessive GPU or CPU temperatures, and am not talking about those components causing thermal throttling.  I am talking about other components on the motherboard, mainly the X570 chipset, or perhaps the CPU voltage regulators, getting too hot because of inadequate enclosure airflow, that the motherboard compensates for by automatically dropping the CPU frequency or causing some bus stalls or some such, that present as sudden "lagging" or "desyncing", because the computer basically freezes or at least slows down a lot whenever that happens.)

When heatpipe CPU coolers first came on the market, many motherboards started suffering from e.g. the CPU voltage regulators overheating because of insufficient airflow.  Then, the end result was usually an otherwise unexplicable freeze; the systems just froze, without even crashing.  Currently, that problem is usually avoided by the motherboard manufacturer using a built-in heatsink, often using heatpipe(s), connecting the chipset and the most heat producing components like the voltage regulators, with taller cooling fins near the connectors at the backside of the motherboard, tall enough to catch some of the airflow from the processor heatsink and fan.  I am not up to date on the niceties of the various chipsets like the X570, but them having some capability of throttling the machine to avoid overheating, even if they do not expose a software-accessible thermal sensor, would not surprise me at all.  (It would not be something expected to trigger in normal use, it would be something designed to stop component damage, you see.)

[MK14]

Can you get it to work well enough in Linux (mentioned earlier in the thread), to play a reasonable game for long enough to exhibit your problem(s) ?
Ideally, just boot into Linux (I don't know how you did it previously), and install enough to play representative games (not all will work without windows). Nothing else.
If it continues to show your problems, then that would tend to point to hardware. But if it doesn't, and the game(s) play nice and smoothly, then that would tend to indicate that windows/drivers/software, other stuff you installed on the windows disk(s), may be causing your issues.
tl;dr
It would be nice to know if it is hardware or software issues, you might be suffering from.

[dervu]

What do you guys think about graphs below from rf spectrum analyzer?
First one is my home, where either disabling old radio triggered improvement or some external factor did it. Still I see difference when switching on/off highend EMI/RFI filter into socket <-> PC circuit.
Which makes me think that it can come back at some point with full strength, as it always does after some time passes after some change.
Second one is office.
Both places have elevators.
When elevators are moving, there is none interference present at the office.
At my place, at every time of any day there is some steady noise at that range, noise is much higher when elevator is moving (as you can see example in screenshot)

I am still looking into recordings to see any differences.

[dervu]

I have 1000fps camera now. I will share my findings when I setup my tests good enough.

[MK14]

I have 1000fps camera now. I will share my findings when I setup my tests good enough.

That would provide much more down to earth/definitive results, than just playing games for a few days. Then saying, it felt a tiny bit odd, maybe.

[dervu]

I am not sure if it will be the same for original poster. As many know, EMI (if it even is EMI or not some other issue related to electricity) issues might not always be the same.
In my case after years of looking I found the source.
There was loose electrical connection for kitchen hood in my apartment.
Immediate difference after removing. Then replaced with new one and still no issues.
It was the last place where I would look, but I had to replace it to comply with new rules regarding ventilation. 

Either it was:
- Just loose electrical connection
- Loose connection combined with little shakes from elevator that is just behind the wall this kitchen hood is placed at
Maybe this connection was loose where the fan was replaced many years ago or it happened gradually from shakes.

When I will have more free time, I will try to reproduce it with connecting this kitchen hood closer to the PC and measure what I can with RFI spectrum analyzer.
For now I can record another 1000fps videos with exactly the same positioning and same emulated inputs to see if there are any differences to my older recordings.

[radiolistener]

Some air conditioners from neighbors can leads to a very high SMPS EMI noise in a range from 50 kHz up to 20-30 MHz. Probably due to bad quality Chinese power supply

[Nominal Animal]

In my case after years of looking I found the source.
There was loose electrical connection for kitchen hood in my apartment.
Immediate difference after removing. Then replaced with new one and still no issues.

I admit, this is the first time I've heard that EMI and/or mains power issues has affected computer performance.
I have only seen and heard of crashes and instability thus far (in roughly 35 years of computing), due to power supply issues, mains power issues, and extreme EMI (most often due to large brushed motors and internal combustion engines with harsh unshielded spark plugs).
(In my observation, sparking seems to be the worst offender in all cases.)

It has to be current graphics cards with their rather large current consumption, being somehow performance-sensitive but not crash-prone to these kinds of issues.  Live and learn!

Thanks for the report, too.  It's good to hear you got it solved, even if by accident.