affordable ESD Workbench Matts in Germany

[Axel1973]

Hi ya Experts.

here in germany im looking around for quiet a while for a good but affordable ESD Matt for my workbench.

Should be ...

- <100 EUR per ca 900x600mm

- heat resistant surface

- non-conductive surface so i can plant the powered PCBs right on to it without gettin in trouble through some high resistance conducting surface.

- robust

Meanwhile i found two products on conrad.de that look interesting, but im confused about those surface resistance on both.

Matt 1:
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189481/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-Beige-HT03088-L-x-B-x-H-1190-x-590-x-2-mm-Beige/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005
claims to have 10e7 to 10e9 surface resistance.

Matt 2:
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189410/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-BJZ-C-184-102P-103-L-x-B-900-mm-x-600-mm-Grau/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005

got a more detailed datasheet. claiming to offer a 10e9 resistance and mention at least "some" information on robustness and heat resistance. but not much.

What do you guys on eevblog think about those and/or do u have any further recommendations on ESD Matts available in germany that sell for personal and not just to commercial customers?

thanks
greets
Axel

[KD0CAC John]

I ended up with one that was posted on a ham radio web site .
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?359500-Industrial-Grade-ESD-60x40cm-mat-set&highlight=EDS+mats

[Matje]

Hi ya Experts.

here in germany im looking around for quiet a while for a good but affordable ESD Matt for my workbench.

Should be ...

- <100 EUR per ca 900x600mm

- heat resistant surface

- non-conductive surface so i can plant the powered PCBs right on to it without gettin in trouble through some high resistance conducting surface.

- robust

Meanwhile i found two products on conrad.de that look interesting, but im confused about those surface resistance on both.

Matt 1:
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189481/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-Beige-HT03088-L-x-B-x-H-1190-x-590-x-2-mm-Beige/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005
claims to have 10e7 to 10e9 surface resistance.

Matt 2:
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189410/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-BJZ-C-184-102P-103-L-x-B-900-mm-x-600-mm-Grau/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005

First one is made from Vinyl -> stay away, this is NOT heat resistant. You want one made from, uhh, in german "Kautschuk".

The second one looks like the one I have. It is OK. It certainly doesn't mind some molten solder dropped onto it.

You should check whether it would be cheaper to get the mat and the other stuff needed from elsewhere, e.g. Reichelt has it too (I assume the different manufacturers are just "fronts" for basically the same real manufacturer, as with a lot of other electronics stuff), for about 30 EUR, but that's only for the mat.

As for robustness, well, the more you spend the better the product, within reason. This mat tends to retain indents (e.g. from the feet of some device standing on it for a time) for quite some time. No idea if that's normal.

[andersm]

It's one price class up, but this is the mat I got: 3M Electronic Specialty 8811.

[amiq]

http://www.somersetsolders.com/product.php/1037/88/antistatic_bench_mats___1200_x_610mm

Just noticed they have these on offer

http://www.somersetsolders.com/product.php/1070/0/antistatic_bench_mat___1000_x_500mm_blue_matting

[Axel1973]

thanks for all those links. but...

a) im looking for some source in the EU that will sale to "non commercial customers" and not only to commercial ones , AND

b) im still confused about the surface resistance on ALL those matts ive seen yet. i mean... Dave once showed in his videos that his matt DOES NOT CONDUCT NOTHING on the surface. even in the megohms range on a very short distance. while all these links and matts you have send in show that they DO conduct/have a resistance that can be measured on the top surface.

Wont that affect lets say my high input resistance OP amp circuitry or my high power switch mode powersupply negatively in "some way" ??

[david77]

...
got a more detailed datasheet. claiming to offer a 10e9 resistance and mention at least "some" information on robustness and heat resistance. but not much.
...

Hi Axel,

it says the surface is resistant to "glimmende Tabakwaren" (glowing tobacco products) so I'd assume it's also tough enough to withstand your iron. A burning cigarette is hotter than a soldering iron.
Other than that the price seems fair to me (surprising as it's Conrad ). I paid more for a smaller mat.

[Kremmen]

thanks for all those links. but...

a) im looking for some source in the EU that will sale to "non commercial customers" and not only to commercial ones , AND

b) im still confused about the surface resistance on ALL those matts ive seen yet. i mean... Dave once showed in his videos that his matt DOES NOT CONDUCT NOTHING on the surface. even in the megohms range on a very short distance. while all these links and matts you have send in show that they DO conduct/have a resistance that can be measured on the top surface.

Wont that affect lets say my high input resistance OP amp circuitry or my high power switch mode powersupply negatively in "some way" ??

I bought mine from Farnell. This: http://de.farnell.com/multicomp/082-0002f/esd-mat-550x1200mm-blk-2x10mm-knopf/dp/1687893. Additionally i got the wrist strap, Schuko connector and extra pushbutton cables for what i thought were quite reasonable prices. Has worked perfectly so far. Mind, i do have a separate heat resistant soldering plate ( a pizza stone ) so i haven't really put the heat resistance to a test.

[TorqueRanger]

I have been using a art and crafts cutting mat and never had any problems..

[komet]

I have this:

www.reichelt.de/ESD-Erdungsmaterial/ESD-MATTE-1200/3/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=110009;GROUPID=600;artnr=ESD+MATTE+1200

It's cheap and the surface resistance shows nothing on my meter. I also haven't been able to melt it with the soldering iron.

... sell for personal and not just to commercial customers?

Call yourself "Axel 1973 Electronics" and most companies will treat you as a commercial customer. That worked for me even when I was 12 and had an obviously young voice on the phone.

[Bored@Work]

Call yourself "Axel 1973 Electronics" and most companies will treat you as a commercial customer. That worked for me even when I was 12 and had an obviously young voice on the phone.

These times are largely gone. These days in the EU they want to have your business VAT registration number (VATIN) to check if you are a business. And they do check for fake or made-up numbers. There is an online service where everyone can check, too.

If you don't have one and live in the EU they rather refuse to take your money instead of going through the trouble to check if you are one of the special cases where a business is exempt from having a VATIN. And of course they are more than happy to get rid of private customers this way.

[amiq]

thanks for all those links. but...

a) im looking for some source in the EU that will sale to "non commercial customers" and not only to commercial ones , AND

The company I linked to are happy to sell to anyone worldwide, and even accept paypal.

b) im still confused about the surface resistance on ALL those matts ive seen yet. i mean... Dave once showed in his videos that his matt DOES NOT CONDUCT NOTHING on the surface. even in the megohms range on a very short distance. while all these links and matts you have send in show that they DO conduct/have a resistance that can be measured on the top surface.

Wont that affect lets say my high input resistance OP amp circuitry or my high power switch mode powersupply negatively in "some way" ??

All ESD mats conduct (how do you think they work?).  No - they won't affect your circuits.

[quarks]

This is a good shop (located in Germany) I bought my ESD stuff from http://www.pkelektronik.com/egb-esd-reinraum/esd-belaege-matten/esd-tischmatten-sets.html
I have this one http://www.pkelektronik.com/bernstein-esd-handling-set-9-360.html
and one of these http://www.pkelektronik.com/esd-tischmatte-610-x-1220-mm-platingrau.html
They are both very good quality, but I would suggest to go for the second one because it is really very rugged. The Bernstein one is softer and therefore can easier be scratched.

[Neganur]

what about Digi-Key ?

http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de?x=0&y=0&lang=de&site=de&KeyWords=16-1097-ND

90x60 cm, 1.5 mm thickness, Statfree T2™ rubber, bottom side is conductive (<10^4 Ohm), top side dissipative (10^6...10^9 Ohm)

for just 75.77 EUR (you pay the VAT of your country when it arrives, unless 75 EU is too small an amount for them to care)

Oh, and orders above 65 EUR get free shipping, usually with UPS.

[andersm]

thanks for all those links. but...

a) im looking for some source in the EU that will sale to "non commercial customers" and not only to commercial ones , AND

The company I linked to are happy to sell to anyone worldwide, and even accept paypal.

Mouser are also happy to sell to anyone, anywhere, but the 3M mat is also available elsewhere.

Oh, and orders above 65 EUR get free shipping, usually with UPS.

UPS don't handle VAT, so you'll have to pay that on delivery. The nice thing about Mouser is that they will pay all duty and customs fees if you choose FedEx for delivery.

[Matje]

...
b) im still confused about the surface resistance on ALL those matts ive seen yet. i mean... Dave once showed in his videos that his matt DOES NOT CONDUCT NOTHING on the surface. even in the megohms range on a very short distance. while all these links and matts you have send in show that they DO conduct/have a resistance that can be measured on the top surface.

No, Dave didn't show no such thing. He did show that the measurement equipment he used can not measure the resistance of his mat (neither can mine for mine).

These mats obviously need to conduct, just a little bit (because the charges they deal with are so small), to work. The resistances are in the range of GOhms.

Wont that affect lets say my high input resistance OP amp circuitry or my high power switch mode powersupply negatively in "some way" ??

Read up a bit on that. If you think you can reliably have GOhms between two pins of your average circuit board - you will be surprised, badly. Also, Dave had a video about "orders of magnitude", very useful to consider in this cricumstances.

No, it will not affect your circuits, except you do really weird stuff, using weird tech, in which case you would (need to) know everything about it already.

[Neganur]

UPS don't handle VAT, so you'll have to pay that on delivery. The nice thing about Mouser is that they will pay all duty and customs fees if you choose FedEx for delivery.

I don't remember how things work in Germany anymore, but here in Finland UPS sends me an invoice for the VAT within a week of delivery. I preferred FedEx too, when buying from Mouser.

[Narmaraktuk]

I bought mine from www.et-esd.de. A black 610x900mm mat, with a non conductive heat resistant surface and a conductive bottom for 24 EUR. Including an 5 EUR "erdungskabel", transport to the Netherlands and VAT it came to 65 EUR.

(They say they don't sell to private persons, but I just went ahead and ordered...)

[uwe]

What about ebay?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/321060449092

looks quite nice.

:q! Uwe

[grumpydoc]

These days in the EU they want to have your business VAT registration number (VATIN) to check if you are a business

Not sure how true this is in continental Europe but in the UK I haven't found anybody who won't sell to me because I'm not VAT registered. The threshold in the UK is a turnover of £77k which means that a hell of a lot of single trader businesses are going to be under that figure.

[SeanB]

Haven't met any that will not deal with single purchase customers, even RS ( who are not interested in rats and mice business really) will sell direct. most will just want CWO or direct deposit, before they ship.

[grumpydoc]

most will just want CWO...

Yeah, it's probably as hard as ever (or harder) to get a credit account, but everyone has a CC these days and for online orders with payment up front there's little risk. You just have to watch MOVs & MOQs (Farnell is only £20 though).

[SeanB]

There is a lot of fraud with direct deposits, you get a lot of scammers who will do a deposit, fax through a modified slip ( instead of a cheque which is rubber they edit to show a cash deposit) or do an EFT that will bounce. We wait for the next day for it to appear on the statement, and to confirm the deposit type is correct, before sending. Especially be aware of those that "accidentally" deposit too much and ask for a refund with the goods.

[Neganur]

I bought mine from www.et-esd.de. A black 610x900mm mat, with a non conductive heat resistant surface and a conductive bottom for 24 EUR. Including an 5 EUR "erdungskabel", transport to the Netherlands and VAT it came to 65 EUR.

(They say they don't sell to private persons, but I just went ahead and ordered...)

Awesome store, but they seem to require a tax ID number when you register?

[Narmaraktuk]

Awesome store, but they seem to require a tax ID number when you register?

Sorry missed your question by 2 months..

I think I left that blank and it still allowed me to continue, but they may have changed the store if that does not work anymore.