Metal welding and test equipment

[tautech]

Welding is a new area for me. 

Which type of welder is your preference and what type of welding are you planning to do ?

This has an influence on the best welder for your tasks and an influence on how they might effect TE.

[tkamiya]

I'm thinking of very light work with thin sheet metal, small angle iron, etc.  Iron and aluminum maybe?  I'm too unknowledgeable to answer this question intelligently. 

[jonpaul]

Kamiya-san, many thanks

1/ the code, safety Earth, does not exclude additional earths, and some required bonding eg of water tanks, etc.  Amateur radio transmission towers and antennas often have ground rods or a buried mesh but still use the utilities earth.

2/ look up the various whole house protection devices for installation notes.  These are intended to protect against lighting and power distribution transients eg automatique reclosers.

3/ A locally generated transient or EMI, still needs a TAZ at the affected equipment.

4/ Think of the entire system as an RF network, where every wire has self inductance and resistance so there is not such  thing as  a perfect gound.  Any impedance to actual earth liftes the potential on the supposed ground.

5/ Electric wiring, code and safety are far beyond this forum, and can incur liabilities in case of accidents.

I would  pose your questions on forums like Mike Holt, Electrical Inspection forum or Electricians forum.

Mike spécialized in electrical code, regulations, inspection and safety.

A sketch of the entire system will be useful

Bon courage

Jon

[tkamiya]

My understanding from reading various material is that ones near utility feed entrance is to prevent power line surge (lightening, nearby feed, etc) from coming into my residential circuit.  One at breaker panel is to absorb ones generated inside my house.  It is my understanding that most damages occur from sources from inside, such as air conditioning units.  As far as this stuff is concerned, I got it handled.

It's just that welding, by nature, is going to create surge spikes and I do not know enough to see what, if any, impact will be there for test equipment.

Thank you for responding.

[tautech]

I'm thinking of very light work with thin sheet metal, small angle iron, etc.  Iron and aluminum maybe?  I'm too unknowledgeable to answer this question intelligently.

Perfect.

Ali is the outlier as it needs HF which creates lots of RFI which can mess with any sensitive TE.
MIG or TIG are your best choices for such work, TIG being more versatile however MIG the better choice for heavier welding.
Good TIG operators with the right equipment can weld Ali soft drink cans, something impossible by other means.

However for either you'll need a shield gas although MIG can be used with gasless wire but the finished job is most always cleaner with a shielding gas, usually an Argon mix or CO².
TIG OTOH generally uses straight Argon and welding technique is more similar to gas welding whereas MIG is more similar to conventional stick arc welding.

[tautech]

My understanding from reading various material is that ones near utility feed entrance is to prevent power line surge (lightening, nearby feed, etc) from coming into my residential circuit.  One at breaker panel is to absorb ones generated inside my house.  It is my understanding that most damages occur from sources from inside, such as air conditioning units.  As far as this stuff is concerned, I got it handled.

It's just that welding, by nature, is going to create surge spikes and I do not know enough to see what, if any, impact will be there for test equipment.

Thank you for responding.

Most of the modern welders use inverter technologies therefore kinder to the mains supply re conducted EMI.

[tkamiya]

When you say Ali, you mean aluminum? 

I'm wide open for suggestions.  I don't intend to rebuild a London bridge...  I've been thinking being able to join metal would be useful for what I do.  I initially said stick because I have few hours of experience with it.  I'd rather not get into compressed gas, but maybe those inert gas will be safe.  I have some experience with handing small cylinders of nitrogen.

I'd imagine I'll do things like tack weld nuts to angle or sheet metal, close seams, etc.  Very light work 2 to 3mm penetration max.

[jpanhalt]

For those, I would leave stick out.  That leaves one with MIG and TIG.  For very light and detailed work, I far prefer TIG, like on a 0.016" aluminum seam or welding thermocouple wires.  We had a very accomplished medical engineering department at one place I worked.  It used TIG on almost everything.  The exception is joining large sections of steel or aluminum plate (e.g, truck bodies), for that, MIG is far easier as it is so much faster and keeping things straight or flat is much easier.  That is, MIG is very fast and puts much less heat into the weld.  TIG is still a fusion process, much like oxy-acetylene but much hotter and concentrated.

[tautech]

When you say Ali, you mean aluminum? 

Yes of course however there are a few different types.
Generally TIG Ali welding takes some skill especially small thin subjects as the only way you monitor heat is by how the required flux is behaving.

I'm wide open for suggestions.  I don't intend to rebuild a London bridge...  I've been thinking being able to join metal would be useful for what I do.  I initially said stick because I have few hours of experience with it.  I'd rather not get into compressed gas, but maybe those inert gas will be safe.  I have some experience with handing small cylinders of nitrogen.

I'd imagine I'll do things like tack weld nuts to angle or sheet metal, close seams, etc.  Very light work 2 to 3mm penetration max.

Shielding gasses are an additional welding cost whereas the cheapest welding is stick welding. Period.

MIG might be the best for you as with 0.6mm wire you can do quite thin stuff and poke into heavier stuff with sufficient wire feed speed.
As MIG is quite similar to stick you will pick it up fairly quick with a little practice.

Some general tips if I may:
Newbies tend to use too low power settings especially when coming from stick where stick will blow through joints MIG tends to gap fill better as there is much less arc blast.
Unlike stick where current and rod size is the primary weld control for MIG wire size and feed speed are the main control settings.
Most welds with MIG are up-hand whereas for Stick down-hand and this initially takes some getting used to.

[tkamiya]

Thanks.

Between TIG and MIG, which is more versatile?  To get started, probably doesn't make sense to have both and I don't foresee doing a lot of welding. 

[jpanhalt]

In my opinion, TIG is more versatile per se.  But which is more useful, depends on your situation.  When I had a hangar and repair shop, I use TIG almost exclusively to repair mufflers, headers, engine mounts, and such.  When I retired and got a hobby farm, I have used MIG almost exclusively.  My welding is mostly hot rolled steel and some repair.  The only time I have turned my TIG welder on was for some very detailed work and welding thermocouples.

[BrokenYugo]

You can weld nearly anything with a TIG machine, and if you get good with one you'll find learning any other welding process very easy.

Any TIG can also be used as a stick welder too, though some inverter machines handle it better than others. Handy should you need to weld thick and/or nasty (dirty, greasy, rusty, painted ,whatever) steel.

[tautech]

In my opinion, TIG is more versatile per se.  But which is more useful, depends on your situation.  When I had a hangar and repair shop, I use TIG almost exclusively to repair mufflers, headers, engine mounts, and such.  When I retired and got a hobby farm, I have used MIG almost exclusively.  My welding is mostly hot rolled steel and some repair.  The only time I have turned my TIG welder on was for some very detailed work and welding thermocouples.

I agree.
TIG gives options but MIG is a better GP workhorse.

Much of my work is repair and some medium to heavy fabrication however I don't even use the MIG very much although there are times when it shines. Stick is what I mostly use as we have 400A available whereas only 180A for MIG although the new invertor MIG's are far more efficient than the old transformer based one we have.
With MIG and 0.6 and 0.8mm wire there's not much light fab it won't do whereas for medium fab 1mm wire is needed and the grunt to drive it.

[calzap]

tkamiya, I strongly recommend a welding class or two.  Local community colleges are one place to look as are high schools that have adult night classes.   The classes I took were part of the “experimental college” run by the students in a university.  You’ll not only learn different techniques but get to experience using different brands of equipment.  You can also learn a lot from youtube videos … not just techniques but product reviews as well.  Welding Tips and Tricks and Weld.com are two content providers that I recommend.

MIG is easiest to learn but is pretty much limited to steel unless you also buy a spool gun which is needed for aluminum welding.  TIG is the most versatile, but harder to learn, slower, and more expensive than entry level MIG.   Best brands are Lincoln, Esab, Everlast, Miller and Hobart.  I have a Lincoln that can do MIG, TIG or stick ... I’ve always been a red guy!  Trust me though, the welder may not be half the cost to get going.  You’ll need or want a table, cart, gas tanks, gas regulators, gloves, jacket or sleeves, autodarkening helmet, a variety of clamps, chipping hammer, etc.

Unless you have a special application that needs them, I’d forget stick and gas welding.   I spent a lot of time learning both, but only use MIG and TIG these days.

Mike in California

[Xandinator]

I have been operating sensitive test equipment right next to kA&HV pulse/arc generators just fine (i.e. at the same time & in the same experiment), in the end that's one of the things you pay big $$$ for when using professional equipment. I doubt any one-person welding job will be coming close to that in terms of EMI...
As for the process discussion: Don't go with gas unless your aim is to make jewelry at some point. I highly recommend learning how to do MMA first – once you've got a feel for the puddle doing MIG/MAG or TIG is so much easier. If I were to keep but one I'd definitely go with the TIG machine (DC+AC) for its versatility (else I couldn't have done Cu or Ti parts). Seriously, get a decent TIG machine (ideally with pulsing, pedal and remote, in this order)! You can then add MIG/MAG if you're working on massive projects (e.g. cars) or get a separate MMA unit (they also serve well as PSUs dumping ridiculous amounts of current) later.

[Xandinator]

tkamiya, I strongly recommend a welding class or two.  Local community colleges are one place to look as are high schools that have adult night classes.   The classes I took were part of the “experimental college” run by the students in a university.  You’ll not only learn different techniques but get to experience using different brands of equipment.  You can also learn a lot from youtube videos … not just techniques but product reviews as well.  Welding Tips and Tricks and Weld.com are two content providers that I recommend.

MIG is easiest to learn but is pretty much limited to steel unless you also buy a spool gun which is needed for aluminum welding.  TIG is the most versatile, but harder to learn, slower, and more expensive than entry level MIG.   Best brands are Lincoln, Esab, Everlast, Miller and Hobart.  I have a Lincoln that can do MIG, TIG or stick ... I’ve always been a red guy!  Trust me though, the welder may not be half the cost to get going.  You’ll need or want a table, cart, gas tanks, gas regulators, gloves, jacket or sleeves, autodarkening helmet, a variety of clamps, chipping hammer, etc.

Unless you have a special application that needs them, I’d forget stick and gas welding.   I spent a lot of time learning both, but only use MIG and TIG these days.

Mike in California

Not to forget about Fronius (red guy here as well, albeit a different one ), HTP, Lorch, Merkle and Rehm. The MMA option on TIG machines/MMA&TIG options on MIG/MAG machines are a handy bonus but mostly lack the customisability of the dedicated units (e.g. Cel/RR starting characteristic for MMA, ramping for TIG, to name a few). If you have to buy light and compact (for obvious reasons) you won't need a cart and can get most things done with a steel plate full of holes (that seconds as a magdrill stand).

[Ground_Loop]

tkamiya, I strongly recommend a welding class or two.  Local community colleges are one place to look as are high schools that have adult night classes.   The classes I took were part of the “experimental college” run by the students in a university.  You’ll not only learn different techniques but get to experience using different brands of equipment.  You can also learn a lot from youtube videos … not just techniques but product reviews as well.  Welding Tips and Tricks and Weld.com are two content providers that I recommend.

MIG is easiest to learn but is pretty much limited to steel unless you also buy a spool gun which is needed for aluminum welding.  TIG is the most versatile, but harder to learn, slower, and more expensive than entry level MIG.   Best brands are Lincoln, Esab, Everlast, Miller and Hobart.  I have a Lincoln that can do MIG, TIG or stick ... I’ve always been a red guy!  Trust me though, the welder may not be half the cost to get going.  You’ll need or want a table, cart, gas tanks, gas regulators, gloves, jacket or sleeves, autodarkening helmet, a variety of clamps, chipping hammer, etc.

Unless you have a special application that needs them, I’d forget stick and gas welding.   I spent a lot of time learning both, but only use MIG and TIG these days.

Mike in California

Stick still has its place.  I have 25 foot leads on my stick that reach well outside my shop.  I can't get my trailer or tractor/implements in the shop to work on them.  Welding outdoors with MIG can be a problem with wind blowing away the shield gas.  Yea, I know, flux core.  Never used it and still doesn't have the reach that the stick has.  Anyway, your test equipment will be just fine.  Now go weld something.

[CatalinaWOW]

To your original question, I wouldn't worry too much about damage to your equipment from your welding operations.  While people who do both welding and electronics are not common in the population, people who weld are relatively common and if there was a serious issue there would be widespread angst about the destroyed consumer electronics which is almost always less well protected than test gear.  My reasoning is buttressed by my own experience.  I have never had any problems with my gear being damaged by my use of welders, or at various periods in my life by the neighbors usage (who were on the same transformer).

My only comment on welding gear is to get the best helmet you can afford.  I can't say why, but the visibility through the better helmets is far better than for the lower quality helmets.  And for me at least, being able to see the puddle is the only way to get a decent weld.  With lower quality helmets I can stick stuff together but the weld quality is atrocious.  With a better helmet I can get all the way up to low end acceptable.

[tautech]

Stick still has its place.  I have 25 foot leads on my stick that reach well outside my shop.  I can't get my trailer or tractor/implements in the shop to work on them.  Welding outdoors with MIG can be a problem with wind blowing away the shield gas.  Yea, I know, flux core.  Never used it and still doesn't have the reach that the stick has.  Anyway, your test equipment will be just fine.  Now go weld something.

Yep, this especially for those of us that do maintenance and repair and with this in mind we placed our big welder mains supply socket just inside the shop roller door so with its 10' long mains lead could have it live ~1/2 way down one shop wall where the much longer welding leads will reach the bench or outside the shop.
That this 400A welder is mounted atop a perfectly sized rolling platform also permits it to be easily moved outside the shop to permit its use on even big machinery.
Days without wind here are uncommon as northern NZ is narrow, so narrow that from the top of our hill we can see the sea to both the east and west and the sea winds sometimes don't abate for weeks. 

MIG/TIG work outside...forgetaboutit, not happening ! 
For little bits and bobs a small portable single phase caddy welder is useful and saved the day on the odd occasion when you can't bring work to the shop and/or don't have a 3 ph supply available.