Should I be worried about tip lifetime when buying my first soldering station?

[Shock]

Could always spend a few hours or so replating your tip to save a few bucks.

[grizewald]

I'm a pure hobbyist, though an electrical engineer by schooling and doing something totally different for work, and fed-up with the old hand-me-down mains powered soldering irons that I have and have decided to purchase a proper temp. controlled soldering station.

I was in the same situation a while back and after discounting the Ersa, Pace and JBC stations due to their high price, I settled on a Xytronic LF-3200 which I bought from Reichelt in Germany for half the price that Elfa in Sweden wanted for one. (see: https://www.reichelt.com/se/en/digital-high-frequency-soldering-station-120-watt-esd-station-lf-3200-p142531.html)

I am very pleased with it. Tips cost 5 Euro or less and the iron goes from room temperature to 320C in about 15 seconds. I use brass wool to clean the tip and this is what comes with the iron.

[Shock]

I was in the same situation a while back and after discounting the Ersa, Pace and JBC stations due to their high price, I settled on a Xytronic LF-3200 which I bought from Reichelt in Germany for half the price that Elfa in Sweden wanted for one.

Xytronic is a Taiwanese brand so it should be the cheap. 320C in 15 seconds is not comparable to the Pace or JBC models which only take a few seconds. Xytronic also uses regular tips not cartridges which probably explains why they heat a little slower for their stated 120W and the price (which is average for that style of tip). The tip design looks Weller inspired.

So it's cheaper but also a different station. It would be good to see it's performance compared to other tip over heater style irons. It probably falls somewhere between the Hakko FX-888D and Ersa i-Tool iron but with less tip selection. It's been mentioned a few times it's difficult to work out Ersa power as they are less than clear how a 150W iron draws full power from a 120W station sharing 2 channels (Metcal are the same). But anyway the i-Tool is 9 seconds to reach 350C so a higher performing iron.

[KL27x]

But stay away from 900M style tips.
There's no need to buy anything that uses them any more. They are old technology.
Get the newer Element-within-Tip technology.

Definitely stick with irons that use the much newer T18 tip technology.

Quote from: OwO on Yesterday at 05:44:09 pm
Are there unplated tips? I have been using a cheap temperature controlled iron and the tip it came with for 5 years. I've grinded one side of the tip to add a "flat" face, and the newly exposed face adheres to solder just as well, so I think this tip has no plating at all.

Very old irons had unplated tips but no one uses them any more afaik.

A newly grinded face will adhere solder good but it will oxidase and char up very quickly.
You will find you have to keep re-grinding it every time you use it.

Very old irons more commonly had pure copper tips. It sounds like OwO might have a tip with a very thick iron plating or perhaps made of pure iron.

The iron layer can be quite thick on an iron. Something in the neighborhood of 1 hundredth of an inch on high quality irons seems to be the norm. I've seen cheaper tips with iron that is probably a few times thicker, at least.

A newly grinded face will adhere solder good but it will oxidase and char up very quickly.
You will find you have to keep re-grinding it every time you use it

If you do not grind all the way through the iron layer, then there's no problem. There's nothing special about the surface of that iron layer. Until you pop through to the copper core, there is no issue. You can sand, grind, file, to some degree. Some of the really cheap irons have tips that are pure copper with a thin nickel plating (10-100x times thinner than an iron coated tip). These tips will oxidize and dissolve away in the solder once the nickel wears through, which doesn't take long even if you take care of the tip. These are the tips that you have to file to keep them working.

In short: most irons have a very thick iron layer that you might never wear out, if used properly. Some of the butane powered irons get so hot they basically burn the tip from the inside out. Some tips have a metal sheet on the inside of the hole that can delaminate and fall out when changing the tip. Most quality tips will wear out when the chrome plating starts chipping away. I have heard some complaints about JBC tips on this forum, but it sounds like the complaints are that the tip doesn't wet as readily as some other brands. It might be something to do with the iron alloy they use. I doubt they are burning holes through the iron. I've only ever seen that happen on a butane powered iron, myself.

As OwO has done, I have judiciously sanded and filed on tips before with no ill effect. One stroke too far, and the tip will go bad. But there's typically a lot more iron there than most people seem to believe. Some people just have no concept of a hundredth of an inch in this context. If you take a standard PCB that is 0.062" thick, the iron plating on your soldering iron is about 1/6 or 1/7th the thickness, and it is highly wear resistant. Heck, try sanding through a copper ground plane on a pcb and see how long that takes. On a 1 oz copper pour board, that copper is only 1.4 thousandths of an inch thick. How many times could you shine up a copper ground plane with fine sandpaper or steel wool before you wore it through? A heck of a lot of times.

The most obvious difference between a hakko tip and a clone tip is in the finishing. The knockoff tips are more crudely finished before the (much-thinner-than-the-iron-layer) chrome is plated on, and the chrome will not hold up to the same level of abuse before it starts to flake off, usually started at the edge and working up/back. The exposed iron layer which is the wettable surface might also be more crudely finished, with larger sanding/grinding marks, but that part can be trued up if you want, using sandpaper. But internally, the cheaper tip might also have a less uniform thickness in the iron layer and/or a much thicker iron layer with less copper in it.

[grizewald]

Xytronic is a Taiwanese brand so it should be the cheap. 320C in 15 seconds is not comparable to the Pace or JBC models which only take a few seconds. Xytronic also uses regular tips not cartridges which probably explains why they heat a little slower for their stated 120W and the price (which is average for that style of tip). The tip design looks Weller inspired.

So it's cheaper but also a different station. It would be good to see it's performance compared to other tip over heater style irons. It probably falls somewhere between the Hakko FX-888D and Ersa i-Tool iron but with less tip selection. It's been mentioned a few times it's difficult to work out Ersa power as they are less than clear how a 150W iron draws full power from a 120W station sharing 2 channels (Metcal are the same). But anyway the i-Tool is 9 seconds to reach 350C so a higher performing iron.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you dislike my choice? Did I mention any comparisons about how long different soldering stations take to get up to temperature? (And honestly, is 9 seconds or 15 seconds even remotely important?) What do you have against things designed and made in Taiwan?

Anyway, I was merely offering an alternative to the suggestions already made in this thread. I have used plenty of Weller and Pace kit professionally and they are, of course, excellent tools. Whether the prices charged for them are realistic for a hobbyist's bench is another matter. From the point of view of hobbyist use, the Xytronic meets all my needs and I thought it would be good to offer an alternative to the very expensive options being suggested to the OP.

[KL27x]

I've never used a Xytronic, but I've heard nothing but good about them.

But anyway the i-Tool is 9 seconds to reach 350C so a higher performing iron.

The time to warm up depends on the mass of the tip. Lighter tips will heat up faster, but heavier tips will increase performance in many ways. The Hakko 951 tips have in some cases about half the copper of the similar style 888 tip, for instance. So it should not be a surprise that they heat up faster. The tips for that 3200 look pretty hefty. Also some irons might "cheat" on the warm up time. They may have a cold boot algorithm. But in operation, it won't perform like that by default, unless you use an "overdrive setting" that allows more overshoot and reduced tip life.

Heck, I have a 6W battery powered iron that gets 900F in 10-12 seconds... but it can't solder anything bigger than a normal thru hole lead on a protoboard pad.

And honestly, is 9 seconds or 15 seconds even remotely important?

To me, nope. It takes longer to get things setup to make the joint after flipping on the power. And once my iron is on, it probably gonna stay that way for at least a couple of hours if not all day.

[AlanS]

I agree with NANDBlog,Brumby and stj.

If you need one get what you can afford. It depends what you want it for and how much joy you will get from your hobby. As an EE you should move forward quickly. So go high rather than low.

As an aside, in my early days learning to solder on solder grids (remember those?) we were taught to use the sponge sparingly as it was bad for tips that then required constant re-tinning. Use the brass wire more and don't wipe the tip before you turn the iron off.

We'll be interested to see what you end up doing. BTW the other advice on different irons and tip types appears to be well considered - and is the best you can do without having one to play with in store - and who has that nowadays?

[Shock]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you dislike my choice? Did I mention any comparisons about how long different soldering stations take to get up to temperature? (And honestly, is 9 seconds or 15 seconds even remotely important?) What do you have against things designed and made in Taiwan?

No not concerned with your choice, was saying it's not comparable to the performance of stations the OP was looking at around that price. A reader might assume that the Xytronic station is a bargain because of half the price elsewhere. There is a big difference between China, Taiwan and Hong Kong still but the reason why some retailers would flip them at twice the price is to sell to people who don't know any better between local and overseas brands. You mentioned the tips were cheaper as well, that is because they are simply cheaper to make, again was just putting it into perspective.

As a high power station only uses the upper limit of it's power in a demanding situation the thermal performance will make a difference. If we could just solder at any temperature we liked it wouldn't matter so much, just turn it up the heat more and it heats the joint faster.

All we really have to go on is the heat up speed to give us an idea of that performance. So it could be anywhere up to four times less efficient than the Pace or JBC, which could be control, losses or just not using the full power it's rated for.

I was merely offering an alternative to the suggestions already made in this thread. I have used plenty of Weller and Pace kit professionally and they are, of course, excellent tools. Whether the prices charged for them are realistic for a hobbyist's bench is another matter. From the point of view of hobbyist use, the Xytronic meets all my needs and I thought it would be good to offer an alternative to the very expensive options being suggested to the OP.

Yeah that's cool and always happy to be refuted. The OP was actually looking at some fairly expensive stations and the Pace ends up being cheaper, but I understand your point.

[Shock]

The time to warm up depends on the mass of the tip. Lighter tips will heat up faster, but heavier tips will increase performance in many ways.

For sure, well you need control, power and speed and add mass if that is not enough . The Ersa i-Tool is meant to be a 150W iron which if you factor that number alone you would expect it to be the best micro handpiece ever, but we both know it's not that simple.

Heck, I have a 6W battery powered iron that gets 900F in 10-12 seconds... but it can't solder anything bigger than a normal thru hole lead on a protoboard pad.

I used a 12V micro pencil from the 80s that was super quick. Had the same problem, as soon as it ran into a demanding joint it would struggle.

To me, nope. It takes longer to get things setup to make the joint after flipping on the power. And once my iron is on, it probably gonna stay that way for at least a couple of hours if not all day.

It does make a little bit of a difference if using a setback/standby feature because when you pick up the iron you want it hot before you clean and hit the joint.

[KL27x]

add mass if that is not enough .

Remove mass for no reason other than to increase profits. Less copper. More impressive warm up time that simple folk tend to equate to performance/power.

Marketing folk: smaller mass means the iron can change the temp rapidly to adjust to your needs.
Me: The temp drops more rapidly when you touch it to a joint. So the iron can correct this greater drop more rapidly. Got it.
Marketing folk: you can fit this smaller tip into tighter spaces.
Me: Yeah, ok. Wake me up when you know what soldering is.

Cartridge tips have two major improvements. They output more heat into the tip without heating up the handpiece as much. And you can have custom tips with larger/smaller heaters for the tip size/shape. These are huge improvements to the people that are affected/limited by the more traditional iron. To those unaffected/limited, which would be the vast majority, all you are getting is a 10 seconds faster warm up time and hot swapping tips. And fancy UI. But dumb people believe marketing wank and most people dumb.

You want to use the same tip for soldering an 0201's and to a battery terminal or ground plane? You already can. You're just using the wrong tip for your 0201's. 

It does make a little bit of a difference if using a setback/standby feature because when you pick up the iron you want it hot before you clean and hit the joint.

  I'll grant this. Personally, my 888 stays at regular soldering temp all day, quite often. (And quite often all night when I forget to turn it off). Tips are not even maintenance items, to me. They basically don't wear out. If I had to solder heavier stuff with lead free, this might not work so well.

[vk6zgo]

If you use a reasonable temperature, and you don't use that stupid water sponge, plus you actually put the iron back to its auto-sleep cradle every time after use, they will last.

What do you use for cleaning the tip?
I use the stupid wet sponge and get years out of the original Weller tips. I have the temp set at around 300°C for 90% of the work I do.
The iron doesn't have the autosleep (it's Weller PU 81 base with WSP 80 iron).

I don't consider the cost of tips to be relevant at all, provided you buy quality tips and not just a piece of copper wire, that will melt away in literary couple of hours, as was the case when I had no access to a proper iron and had to make do with a $6 supermarket abomination.

I, too, use the  "stupid wet sponge" with my old Weller WTCP, & get good life out of the tips.
In my experience, the only thing that kills tips prematurely with the WTCP is when the thermal switch gets stuck "on".

This should not be a problem with a modern continuously temperature  controlled  iron, however.
I believe that people have become altogether too "precious" about such things as "temperature shock" ----- it's a lump of metal with a bit of plating on it, for Pete's sake!

The very cheap "pretend" solder stations with a surplus lamp dimmer doing the temperature control will kill their tips in no time, but with a good quality station the tips should last for years with the low level of use the OP proposes.

[tooki]

I've never used a Xytronic, but I've heard nothing but good about them.

But anyway the i-Tool is 9 seconds to reach 350C so a higher performing iron.

The time to warm up depends on the mass of the tip. Lighter tips will heat up faster, but heavier tips will increase performance in many ways. The Hakko 951 tips have in some cases about half the copper of the similar style 888 tip, for instance. So it should not be a surprise that they heat up faster. The tips for that 3200 look pretty hefty. Also some irons might "cheat" on the warm up time. They may have a cold boot algorithm. But in operation, it won't perform like that by default, unless you use an "overdrive setting" that allows more overshoot and reduced tip life.

The Ersa i-Con series has three power settings, which applies equally to initial power up and during use. The default is the medium setting which allows slight overshoot. The low setting allows none (but heats more slowly) and the high one allows more overshoot but faster heating. A bar graph on the display shows how much energy is actually being pumped into the heater.

[stj]

i think tip life is mostly down to the flux formulation in the solder,
in the past when i used 60/40 with rosin flux from wherever, i went through tips relativly fast,

now i use 100% lead-free and select solder/flux like a wine conosour the tips arent wearing down!!!

[Reiska]

I know what I'm looking at are way overkill to my current needs and probably for my future needs as well, but I'm not going to buy another soldering station during this lifetime if I can avoid it so I'd rather just get the best available within some reason in price (e.g. no 1000€+ reworking stations unless I get good enough to start reflowing my broken iMac's GPU's at some point :-P).

I know I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to tools, but was brought up by my grandad (who was an electrician and a carpeter) that poor people can't afford buying cheap equipment.

I've added to that my own maxim that "busy people with kids don't have time to waste on clunky tools when they finally find the nonexistent time to actually do hobby stuff".

Therefore I'm ok with dropping 500-600€ on an excellent station if that then takes care of my needs without waiting, being underpowered, lacking, limiting or otherwise frustrating 6 months from now. For a frame of reference if anyone here does woodworking I use Festool power tools, Veritas planes and chisels, Incra fences and rulers, Pfeil carving chisels and mostly Apple computers at home.

I guess my tip questions sounds now rather academic in retrospect, but I did read some horror stories of people screwing up their tips in days and at 25-75€/tip cartridge every week that adds up quickly so hence my original question.

After reading your replies it seems that with reasonable care tips should last 1+ years in moderate use even if they are of the 'weak' JBC plating thickness variety. So if I have throw 25-100€/year on replacements and new geometry tips it's fine.

The hacker in me would actually want to build a Unisolder 5.2 driver just for the challenge, but looking at the PCB routing it would require a proper soldering station and probably alot more soldering skills than I have to put one together. So maybe that's my next station if I get back into the groove of building my own elctronics. I used to be a fairly active HAM-radio op and built some modems, antennas, amplifiers and silly gadgets like CoVox's for my PC in the day but haven't had time to do electronics for the last 20-odd years.

[stj]

there was a russian guy on ebay selling the unisolder pcb's as a kit or pre-built.

[KL27x]

I use Festool power tools, Veritas planes and chisels, Incra fences and rulers, Pfeil carving chisels and mostly Apple computers at home.

Yes, you were born to buy a JBC, lol.
I bought a few Bosch tools when I lived in an apartment, thinking that because I couldn't have large freestanding tools, I would need my small hand tools to be good. Yeah, Bosch tools were my "expensive brand." I think I have one Makita something or other. The rest is Harbor Freight... or worse. And for the most part, I couldn't tell you the difference between the name brand stuff and HF. I have never had a Harbor Freight tool let me down, yet. The quality is superb. (With only rare exceptions like rotary tools. Dunno why, but I say stick with Dremel and Proxxon). You guys in Europe have no idea how good cheap chinese stuff is when the importer actually selects them with care and then implements quality control backed with a great warranty (which I have never needed). Canada and US have decent quality power tools for almost free via Princess Auto and Harbor Freight.

Chisels... this is the weirdest thing to me why people spend crazy money on chisels. It's a piece of steel in a handle. A monkey can probably be taught how to make a chisel. I have noticed a slight difference in the hardness and edge holding between my good chisel and my Kobalt. But it's like 5%. I pick up the one that is the right size for the job and I sharpen it when it needs sharpening. The chisel that is the right size and freshly sharpened and in my hand is my favorite chisel. Files, yeah. I will pay more for a good file. Chisels are pretty much disposable/interchangeable items to me. Matching chisels are also not important to me. I don't even see why you want the same huge handle on a 1/8" chisel as a 1" chisel, when you're only cutting a tiny fraction of the wood. I have rehandled my smaller chisels with smaller, shorter, lighter handles. I actually don't even own 2 chisels of the same brand. I just kinda ended up with a very small collection of w/e I needed at one time or the other.

Regarding soldering, I started out as a hobbyist with a Radio Shack firebrand for 2 years. Then I upgraded to one of the cheapest temp controlled stations at the time, branded by one of my store/suppliers I still occasional use, thinking it was smart because replacement handpieces are 5.00 and tips only 1.00. Compared to this, 65.00 for a replacement Hakko 888 handpiece seems like highway robbery. But then I bought a Hakko. And I feel like you don't need to buy replacement parts, ever. In over ten years, not an issue. With my previous cheaper station, I went through 2 handpieces, a broken heater, and several more tips in less than half that time. Not to mention tip selection, ergos, lack of power. For an occasional hobbyist, I think even the cheapo stations are probably sufficient. I do a lot of soldering, and a good station is worth it to me.

[Shock]

Now that you can get T12 clone kits for cheap the Unisolder is a bit pointless. Those Russian completed boards go for $140 each which makes it more expensive than buying a complete name brand station once you have everything you need. I noticed they don't support the Pace TD-200 but they support the older Pace TD-100 handpiece.

These two videos illustrate the Pace TD-100 heating up on standard and performance tips. It also shows the tip change process in "slow motion". The heating on the Pace ADS200 with the TD-200 iron has improved on that and in reality tip to tip swapping is about 5 seconds .