Pursuing Electronics as a Med Student: Seeking Guidance and Advice

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Physician characterization in the US:
Internist:       Knows a lot but does not do much     
Surgeon:      Does not know much but does a lot       
Pathologist:  Knows a lot and does a lot only a little too late.       

I do not know where I got the idea that the OP was in UK, but the timeline of education seems similar. It would be hard to get an Engineering Degree and a Medical degree.   In the US and Canada it would be a normal path (although one of the hardest, because of the engineering course load) to get an undergrad EE degree and then go to med school.  I have known personally two people who have done this.  Obviously there are many more.   
There are a lot of doctors who are Ham Operators and a lot who have electronics as a hobby, it is not the same as being an EE and we know that.

[jpanhalt]

One of the admission hurdles in the US is the MCAT (medical college admission test).  Once in medical school, a student is free to apply for any speciality, but selection is up to the program.  The most popular programs (surgical specialties, including dermatology) are most selective.  But, not everyone wants to be a surgeon.  In the US, you will see many of the best students apply to non-surgical specialties like medicine or pediatrics.

[Smokey]

....
The difference between a professional and a professional hobbiest is that while both can do the same designs , a professional would consider a lot of more things (economics , ability to mass produce , repairability or non-repairability for apple , and most importantly RELIABILITY)  , a hobbiest would only consider functionality , a prototype only needs to work properly regardless of said stuff
....

Untrue. 
The difference between a (good) professional and a hobbyist is that the professional, in addition to the required base understanding (IE school stuff), has a career worth of experience and intuition that has been shaped by real world problems and solutions and mentorship by other professionals.  They spend the majority of their focused effort on this one thing and have done so for many years.  Example.  When they say something about power dissipation in a switching transistor, they are not copying Wikipedia, or repeating a YouTube video.  They have calculated those number and measures those numbers many times in many different real world applications.  They have suffered the consequences of getting it wrong and learned from those consequences. 

This also mostly applies to a recent engineering student graduate, who may have a job and get paid to be an engineer and is technically a professional, is still mostly a drain on whatever department they are working for until they get enough on the job training and experience to be capable of actually doing design work on their own. 

Saying a hobbyist and a professional are only different by how many of something they make is something only a person that has never made anything of any real complexity would say. 


The vast majority of actual designs are out of the realm of possibility for a hobbyist electrical designer.  I am not talking about strapping a power supply you bought off Amazon to a Arduino you bought off eBay, and hooking up a sensor you bought off Adafruit while following the step by step instructables.  First of all that's not engineering, and it's certainly not design. 

If you are actually being serious and are this delusional about engineering, I hope to god you are never my surgeon.

[osmax_br]

....
The difference between a professional and a professional hobbiest is that while both can  design , a professional would consider a lot of more things (economics , ability to mass produce , repairability or non-repairability for apple , and most importantly RELIABILITY)  , a hobbiest would only consider functionality , a prototype only needs to work properly regardless of said stuff
....

Untrue. 
The difference between a (good) professional and a hobbyist is that the professional, in addition to the required base understanding (IE school stuff), has a career worth of experience and intuition that has been shaped by real world problems and solutions and mentorship by other professionals.  They spend the majority of their focused effort on this one thing and have done so for many years.  Example.  When they say something about power dissipation in a switching transistor, they are not copying Wikipedia, or repeating a YouTube video.  They have calculated those number and measures those numbers many times in many different real world applications.  They have suffered the consequences of getting it wrong and learned from those consequences. 

This also mostly applies to a recent engineering student graduate, who may have a job and get paid to be an engineer and is technically a professional, is still mostly a drain on whatever department they are working for until they get enough on the job training and experience to be capable of actually doing design work on their own. 

Saying a hobbyist and a professional are only different by how many of something they make is something only a person that has never made anything of any real complexity would say. 


The vast majority of actual designs are out of the realm of possibility for a hobbyist electrical designer.  I am not talking about strapping a power supply you bought off Amazon to a Arduino you bought off eBay, and hooking up a sensor you bought off Adafruit while following the step by step instructables.  First of all that's not engineering, and it's certainly not design. 

If you are actually being serious and are this delusional about engineering, I hope to god you are never my surgeon.

Could you tell me where I exactly said design is to strap a few sensors from adafruit on a breadboard
What I meant by a hobbiest is that you don't do complex reliable products and I definitely didnt mean that the difference between hobbiest and professional is based on HOW many , please reread my comment
Never have I meant that a pro is like a hobbiest in anyway

If you are actually being serious and are this delusional about engineering, I hope to god you are never my surgeon.

Also you can say that I am wrong without being rude and offensive   

[osmax_br]

The thing I meant about design, lets say a gps navigation system
A good hobbiest might go to lcsc and get desired gps chip and other chips , design a pcb , do the tests to make sure it functions properly, and then maybe put it in a drone

The professional has a thousand more thing to account for designing gps system for a modern aircraft, literally there is no room for error here , you don't want your F35 going to undesired places because of a simple design error , as you counted before literally thousands of things must be put into consideration

While both did a gps system , you cant compare them both , yes they are both gps system , but one is a million times better

The good hobbiest doesnt care much if the gps system gave an error once a thousand times , but it is catastrophic for the F 35 engineer
That is the point I meant

And by no means I intend on doing F 35 avionics as a hobby  (not even a gps system for a drone) , I am not delusional about engineering
The desire to be a good hobbiest at electronics doesn't mean that you want to be a top notch professional EE
and being a good hobbiest doesn't mean that you are a bad surgeon
But I guarantee, if your surgeon told you that he is a professional at surgery and EE ,you should take a deep breath, stand up , and run through the operation room door and dont look back , because he is neither a professional at surgery nor a professional at EE

But saying I am a professional at surgery and a good HOBBIEST in electronics doesn't mean that I am bad at surgery

And being a GOOD hobbiest doesn't mean that you have 0 knowledge, or just use adafruit sensors with a breadboard and some instructables and call it a day
A good hobbiest should be able to design some electronics, but surely isn't comparable to the complex design of a real professional

[armandine2]

...perhaps some of the responders suffered from white coat syndrome.

[Smokey]

...perhaps some of the responders suffered from white coat syndrome.

I see your "white coat syndrome" and raise you a Dunning-Kruger.  Your move

[jpanhalt]

So, what's your definition of "white-coat syndrome?"

Here's the CCF definition: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23989-white-coat-syndrome

[armandine2]

...I'm with Karl Popper - re definitions, here.

I think if the OP had said he was a science student he would taken less flak - may be a lesson learned.

There is an interesting education question here - people are more concerned about how medics might be educated into their profession than they are education students say - I speak, remembering when I mentioned an alternative way of recruiting and training doctors by UK university, my fellow educational studies students were reluctant to favour alternatives to their vague notions of the present system.

[armandine2]

[NE666]

What this thread is currently presenting with appears more symptomatic of an outbreak of 'ass hat' than of 'white coat'.

I prescribe a chill pill, to be taken as necessary.

[osmax_br]

What this thread is currently presenting with appears more symptomatic of an outbreak of 'ass hat' than of 'white coat'.

I prescribe a chill pill, to be taken as necessary.

Well yeah, I agree  
But come on, it’s expected to be attacked and insulted online in a heated argument—that’s why it’s called an "internet argument"  

However, I do believe this thread changed something in me. I realized that you can’t be a professional in both the medical field and EE, but that doesn’t mean leaving electronics altogether. You just have to know your limitations. You’ll never be able to make complex or commercially viable products or compete with real engineers, and you’ll always have less knowledge than others in the field of electronics. But there’s nothing wrong with that (provided there’s always someone professional willing to answer my stupid questions on the EEVblog forums ). 

I’m thinking of getting *The Art of Electronics* book (or something easier) and restarting my journey in electronics again! (While keeping my main focus on the anatomy textbooks, of course   no need to worry about being close to a white coat  ) 
And definitely no need to worry about me swapping my white coat for an oscilloscope anytime soon

PS: I’m not a complete beginner in electronics, but I’m more experienced in software than hardware. I did provide my GitHub page, which links to a project of mine (in the second reply on the first page) with the ESP32. I’d be glad if someone could give me their opinion about the code (possible errors, suggestions, etc.). 

But seriously, A huge thank you to everyone who took the time to read and reply to my thread. Thank you all for your kindness and help  , I really appreciate it ! 

[tggzzz]

When you are young you are encouraged to believe you could be anything you want, and rightly so. As you get older, you unavoidably make choices that close and lock some doors. For me dropping biology at 16 (in favour of maths, chemistry, physics) meant it would be very difficult to become a doctor. I don't regret my choices, but nowadays I would probably choose to go into life sciences, since they are currently at the same stage as electronics and computing were back then.

Overall the trick is to allow boring doors to be closed and locked, but to avoid locking doors that might become interesting in the future. It sounds like you are doing that

Glad we have been of some help in allowing you to make your decisions.

Have fun, and good luck

[jpanhalt]

I’m thinking of getting *The Art of Electronics* book (or something easier) and restarting my journey in electronics again! (While keeping my main focus on the anatomy textbooks, of course   no need to worry about being close to a white coat  ) 
And definitely no need to worry about me swapping my white coat for an oscilloscope anytime soon

Good.

AoE2 is an easier read.  I have both (AoE3), but started with AoE2.  AoE2 has very little on micros or modern stuff, but I found it a good starting point.  It might be a little cheaper (used) than AoE3, and refer to something else for micros.

[osmax_br]

Good.

AoE2 is an easier read.  I have both (AoE3), but started with AoE2.  AoE2 has very little on micros or modern stuff, but I found it a good starting point.  It might be a little cheaper (used) than AoE3, and refer to something else for micros.

Sorry for late reply, Actually I found a very rare translated copy of AoE1 in my grandparents place today , however its translation is horrible
 "word for word translation just like old google translate" , I think I am better off with the English version
+ Fun fact : the book was banned for years since the government figured out that this book and electronic books in general are "dangerous" so they banned them for 20 years ,you cant buy or sell them or even publish your own book about them , probably they were afraid of someone making their own communication system without government censorship

Apart from the "fun fact" , I found online that it is not so "beginner friendly" book , it is more oriented for being used as a reference or a text book in universities, it dives into some maths where a "beginner"  or "hobbiest" might find hard ?
I didn't read the book so I really don't know whether this is true , but the size of the book it doesn't suggest beginner level 
Some people suggested "electronics for inverntors" or "make:electronics 3rd ed" as a more "beginner" or "hobbiest" friendly, so I really don't know now what to do
Some other people stated that you should read those 2 first then dive into AoE

[Rick Law]

Probably not what you want to hear, but perhaps you should also consider:

Saying "get a job to do things you like doing" is all fine and good, but practicality is important.  Unless you are independently wealthy, you need to consider the job market in your accessible area.  You need to ensure you can make a living first, only then you can have the luxury to consider the fun/enjoyment factor. 

My guess is -- The nearest hospital/clinic  from you is likely a lot nearer than the nearest electronics design/manufacturer from you.  Within a 100 mile circle where you are (or plan to be), my guess again is you are likely to find more hospitals and clinics inside the 100 mile circle than you can find electronic design/manufacture shops in that circle.

If my guess is right, you should consider go for Med (MD with a commonly needed specialty) so you know upon completion of education you can sustain your life with adequate resources.  Having secure that, you have control of how much fun you want with the remaining resources.  You can spend every weekend tinkering with every electronics widgets you can afford, and an MD should be able to afford quite a bit...

Question:  How good do you think you will be (MD or electronics) in your field, how much do you think they are paying at that level of accomplishment -- check your selected area.

Question: How likely are you going to find a job for the skill level you expect to attain in your selected area?

Question: How much does it cost to live in the area you selected and at the living standard you envisioned for yourself (and your family to come)...

So on, so on.

If you are going get an MD or an MS, you are smart enough to work that forward planning.  Do the question list appropriate for your personal  forward planning.  I am confident the path forward will become self-evident as you do your planning.

[osmax_br]

Well I'm returning to this old thread to state that I made some edits to the original post
For the past couple months , I've sent this thread to multiple medical/engineering students who is unable to decide where to go , but mainly I sent this thread to my medical friends who went to medical school just because "they got a free scholarship" and now they believe that engineering is a better choice

The contributors on this post helped multiple students leave/stay med school (but mostly they stayed)
Since this thread is long and derailed multiple times from the topic , I made an edit to summarize the 3 pages long conversation, also told them to view some comments made by the contributors here   (Special thanks to : @tggzzz , @jpanhalt , @NE666 for their support and long conversations)
And thanks to everyone who commented here ,you helped real people make decisions in real life

[Smokey]

...
8- if you want to be demotivated, read Smokey's comments on the 3rd page , but he is correct, using Arduinos and adafruit sensors is no where near engineering/professional, don't over estimate your skills
...

hah.  glad I could help?

Here is another career path.  EE -> Law School = Patent Law.  I have a couple friends that did that and they make more money than any of the guys that stuck with EE.

[RJSV]

   Here is a small fragment of thoughts,  when I started conversation with my RETIRING Opthamaligist:

   Doctor,  you might consider,  after retirement from the practice, here,  perhaps you could do consulting work,  on one of the big,  Optical Computer innovators.
   Having the third leg,  of. Medicine,  Electronics,  and PHYSICS,  would help to get a good fit,  with a very physics active product development cycle,  might be successful.

That's my own speculation.  Excel in physics,  and the other fellow Physics students will,  literally fight over you,  for informal tutoring !

   The retired,  old dude .might,  actually,  miss out on a lot of social 'savvy',  that any 22 year old has Imbedded inside.

   Just to mention that even a triple set of specialties might give advantage.

   My Dermatologist has an MBA,  and is very s.art and 'clear-eyed' meaning that the Doctor talks and interacts,  in natural smarts,  making good eye contact,  etc.o

[tggzzz]

Since this thread is long and derailed multiple times from the topic , I made an edit to summarize the 3 pages long conversation, also told them to view some comments made by the contributors here   (Special thanks to : @tggzzz , @jpanhalt , @NE666 for their support and long conversations)
And thanks to everyone who commented here ,you helped real people make decisions in real life

You're welcome.

It is a pleasure to help anyone who asks a well-thought out question, then thinks about to the responses Not everybody does that

[watchmaker]

...
8- if you want to be demotivated, read Smokey's comments on the 3rd page , but he is correct, using Arduinos and adafruit sensors is no where near engineering/professional, don't over estimate your skills
...

hah.  glad I could help?

Here is another career path.  EE -> Law School = Patent Law.  I have a couple friends that did that and they make more money than any of the guys that stuck with EE.

This is precisely what my son in law did.  Money was not his object, but he really enjoys the work (has SkyWorks as client) and between him and my Structural Engineer daughter they are very successful.