Author Topic: Replace IR with wire  (Read 505 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Replace IR with wire
« on: September 19, 2019, 10:14:31 am »
A beginner question...  :-/O
is it possible to add (not replace) a wire connection between a remote controller and IR receiver?

little explanation: I want a second remote controller for an AV receiver that is hidden and without IR visibility. So I was thinking about replacing the IR emitter from the remote controller with 2 wires and connecting it to the IR receiver. can it work? will the ir receiver work again with the original remote?



thanks
 

Online hexreader

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 168
  • Country: england
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2019, 11:06:02 am »
It is very unlikely that this would work, unless you have an unusual IR remote control system.

Typical remote handset sends modulated IR signal. Typical receiver circuit expects UNmodulated signal.

IR is explained well here:

https://www.sbprojects.net/knowledge/ir/index.php
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4658
  • Country: gb
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 11:19:41 am »
Have you checked that your IR receiver doesn't have an external IR jack?

It's not that unusual for consumer audio gear, projectors etc.  to have the capability for an external IR receiver that is in the line of sight of the remote, say, by the TV.

If there is no existing facility, most IR receiver modules have open-collector outputs, so it would be relatively easy to arrange an external one in parallel with the internal one using a thin three core lead (eg, two core stereo screened).

You would probably want to check the internal IR receiver part number for modulation frequency (usually 36-38kHz) and get the same.

Note the usual warning about modifying mains powered equipment, but if you were already contemplating a wired link then you have probably already accepted that.
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 11:29:27 am »
the receiver in the amp is a RPM6900 that demodulate the IR signal and it's connected directly to the main processor. no way to power on the amp in this way.
But the amp has one connector named RC-5 remote control, i must investigate on that
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4658
  • Country: gb
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 12:04:56 pm »
Quote
But the amp has one connector named RC-5 remote control, i must investigate on that

Yes, that will be the one!

RC5 is supposed to be modulated at 36kHz but some manufacturers use 38kHz (it doesn't actually make that much difference to receiver sensitivity. You should hopefully find that the RC5 jack has 3 terminals, +5V, Gnd and input. If so, you should just be able to wire these to an external receiver module (or buy a complete one from the manufacturer or maybe ebay).

If the jack has only 2 connections then you will have to find an alternative 5V supply.
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2019, 12:38:59 pm »
i can't understand if the RC-5 jack want modulated or unmodulated RC-5 signal.
here the schematics, for the IR receiver and RC-5 input (JK16). The AV also has a multi room control input (JK20)

« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:45:15 pm by firstcolle »
 

Offline macboy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1952
  • Country: ca
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 01:43:46 pm »
You are over-thinking it.
Take the IR LED you removed from the remote, connect it to the end of the wire and point it at the receiver. Done.

p.s. all of the signals to/from the jacks in your schematic are modulated. Also, the circuits shown are only buffering the input signals, not demodulating them.
 
The following users thanked this post: EEEnthusiast

Offline sokoloff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1254
  • Country: us
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 02:04:31 pm »
From a human factors standpoint, I think you'd be way better off buying an IR relay system (a secondary standalone IR receiver, wire, and IR transmitter than you can hot glue on or near the equipment to be controlled).

No one wants to deal with a wired remote in 2019 (or even 1999).

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Repeater-Control-Devices-Extender/dp/B01N674PE9/ref=asc_df_B01N674PE9/

but I'm sure there are hundreds available; I'm just showing that one to clarify my general recommendation.
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4658
  • Country: gb
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 03:28:38 pm »
i can't understand if the RC-5 jack want modulated or unmodulated RC-5 signal.
here the schematics, for the IR receiver and RC-5 input (JK16). The AV also has a multi room control input (JK20)

The RC5 at the socket is unmodulated - no 36/38kHz, just an RC5 serial datastream. The IR module (RCB1 in your schematic) does the demodulation.


P.S. Get something like sokoloff said. Extending the LED wires is a horrible idea.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 03:32:06 pm by Gyro »
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline grifftech

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: us
    • youtube channel
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 03:37:08 pm »
What about TOSLINK.
 

Online ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
  • Country: lv
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 03:49:54 pm »
What about TOSLINK.

It's for digital audio, not IR remote. What you want to know about it?
 

Offline grifftech

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 346
  • Country: us
    • youtube channel
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2019, 08:49:58 pm »
What about TOSLINK.

It's for digital audio, not IR remote. What you want to know about it?
I meant to use an optical cable similar to the ones used for TOSLINK.
 

Online ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
  • Country: lv
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2019, 09:07:44 pm »
I meant to use an optical cable similar to the ones used for TOSLINK.
Wont work, unless you point your IR remote LED precisely into fiber at zero distance. Also TOSLINK fiber usually is made out of plastic, long runs will attenuate light too much. Better just introduce IR repeater.
 

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 07:35:55 am »
THANKS to everyone!!  thought that it was simpler and I surely don't want to spend to much time on it.. so I solved by soldering wires in parallel to the front panel switches I needed and use those to control the amplifier. That limits the things I can control but I can live with that.

it's an old HT amplifier but it works fine and I love its sound, I just wanted to add some "smart controll". for now I don't have money to buy a 2019 equivalent amp.
 

Online soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2401
  • Country: es
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 08:49:21 am »
I have done exactly that and it is extremely simple.  The IR receiver is a three pin device (Vcc, Gnd, out) and the output is open collector so you can connect another one in parallel. Three wires and one IR receiver and you're in business.

I have the satellite box (left side of attached diagram) in one room but it also feeds a TV in another room. I use Ethernet cable to send video and audio to the remote TV and remote control commands back to the receiver.

I didn't even buy the IR three pin receiver, I just pulled it out of an old unit.

The whole thing has been working fine for years now. The main problem I have is that the remote is always in the other room.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 08:51:07 am by soldar »
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
The following users thanked this post: ogden

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2019, 09:11:07 am »
intresting solution!!! let me think about that!!!
 

Online soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2401
  • Country: es
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2019, 09:13:14 am »
The receiver already demodulates the IR carrier and the output is quite low frequency.

I added a three pin DIN connector to the back of the receiver box.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Online soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2401
  • Country: es
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2019, 09:20:52 am »
This is the remote IR receiver taken from some discarded unit. The three wires at the top carry the signal. The four at the bottom go nowhere, just left over from the original unit.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Online ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
  • Country: lv
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2019, 09:43:10 am »
The main problem I have is that the remote is always in the other room.

There's easy solution as well - get universal or programmable remote or DIY it yourself (retrofit old remote with MCU of your choice).
 

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2019, 10:09:33 am »
i have tan TSOP34836 at home.. i can try to connect to RC-5 socket and see if it work. i miss only the 5V but i can use an external source for now..
 

Online soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2401
  • Country: es
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 01:10:11 pm »
Note that they include the demodulator and the frequencies must match.

Also, that one in particular includes a pull-up resistor. I seem mine did not and the resistor was external so several open collector detectors could be connected in parallel. It may be that even with two pull up resistors in parallel it will work.

You just need to be aware of these things. I did mine many years ago and do not remember the details.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 01:45:43 pm by soldar »
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline firstcolle

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: it
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2019, 02:18:15 pm »
yes, both are36khz and by watching the datasheet they seem quite similar
 

Online soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2401
  • Country: es
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2019, 02:43:53 pm »
i have tan TSOP34836 at home.. i can try to connect to RC-5 socket and see if it work. i miss only the 5V but i can use an external source for now..

What 5V? Just wire the three pins in parallel. Vcc to Vcc, out to out, gnd to gnd, dust to dust, ashes to ashes, etc.

BTW my Vcc was 3 V, not 5V.

All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline JustMeHere

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: us
Re: Replace IR with wire
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2019, 09:52:59 pm »
Look for something that uses radio and converts it to IR signals.  This is how large sports bars control their TV systems.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf