Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?  (Read 4873 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1982
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 12:32:53 pm »
I checked for imports and that doesn't make much financial sense inside the EU.

It seems the scopes hold their value quite well. I would've expected the 1052E to crash in price completely now that massively improved successor is out, but that didn't happen. It's still around ~300EUR new, which is absolutely insane considering that the 54Z is only ~80EUR more. I also didn't find any spectacular deals on the used market and 3 years of warranty from Batronix is nice.

The SDS1104X-E unlocked to 200Mhz and generally better specs with the option of later adding a logic analyzer and waveform generator is a more future proof buy, but probably not worth the extra ~130EUR to me.

Perhaps you miss my point. There are not very many _used_ DS1054Z scopes on the market, in spite of the facts that there are lots of them in the field and they've been around for years, and the used ones that do show up cost nearly as much as new-in-box. What does that tell you?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6946
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2019, 12:40:33 pm »
Perhaps you miss my point. There are not very many _used_ DS1054Z scopes on the market, in spite of the facts that there are lots of them in the field and they've been around for years, and the used ones that do show up cost nearly as much as new-in-box. What does that tell you?

Also I've been wondering why there are no big numbers of reported broken/damaged DS1054Z since it was released years ago, at least here in this forum alone, which I believe has big population of DS-1054Z owners that already passed their warranty period for quite sometimes now.

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16076
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2019, 12:42:10 pm »
They're mostly quite reliable I suspect. There's not a whole load to go wrong in them.
 

Offline Rooster Cogburn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2019, 01:38:54 pm »
Perhaps you miss my point. There are not very many _used_ DS1054Z scopes on the market, in spite of the facts that there are lots of them in the field and they've been around for years, and the used ones that do show up cost nearly as much as new-in-box. What does that tell you?

I had multiple thoughts regarding that :)

- The cheap caps in the PSU leaked all over the place and they're all broken :)
- They're incredibly popular so they get snagged up quite quickly and there's not much point to the used market as you might as well buy new with warranty  at those prices
- Since these are the No 1 beginner's scope I bet a lot of people just never needed anything else. They bought one for a single purpose. Maybe all they wanted to do is check a PSU or recalibrate some optical disc drive, and that's it. It now collects dust or performs a simple task, so why ever buy a new one

In any case, it seems to hold its value considering even a used 1052E goes for prices that I'd consider far to high. So I think I'll stick with my original conclusion and buy one. If I need anything better or a successor comes out, I haven't wasted that much money.
 

Offline alex-sh

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 145
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2019, 02:08:30 pm »
I can vouch for SDS1104X-E - excellent scope.
What's your budget?
 

Offline bitwelder

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: fi
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2019, 03:19:16 pm »
Is it still advisable to buy a DS1054Z even though it has been on the market for quite a while? I could wait a bit longer if a successor was on the horizon. The jump from the 52E to the 54Z was huge, I'd hate to buy one just to have a massively improved successor drop 6 months later.

If you'd buy the Rigol, what would be your possibilities to sell it as used (on eBay or your local flea market) in perhaps a couple of years?
If you liked the 54Z, you could get it now, use it (treating it well to keep its value), learn from it, and then when its 'successor' you can quickly decide how to act.
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4022
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2019, 04:36:42 pm »
Good suggestions all around - I am with rstofer: the SDS1104X-E would be my choice if I were looking for a new scope.

Despite it is not entirely mature as the DS1054Z, it is a more modern architecture that has more horsepower and therefore more "room to breath" - i.e., if Siglent keeps a consistent trend of improving the features and usability, it will be a much better equipment when it reaches maturity. I understand this is a bit of a gamble, but they have been providing support for older platforms for a few years now and, due to its cost, the SDS1104X-E is probably selling well to warrant the same long term support.

I wouldn't be too caught up on the used prices, as they vary greatly. The price you mentioned for the DS1052E is too high in my opinion. 

The one huge compromise the DS1054Z has is during serial stream decoding: it only decodes what is on the screen, which is very limiting in my opinion but others will certainly differ.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 04:38:18 pm by rsjsouza »
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Springer

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: au
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 09:09:13 am »
Is the earth tab for the 1kHz output on the Rigol DS1054Z meant to be slightly wobbly?
 

Offline JohnPen

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 233
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 09:48:45 am »
Not really.  I believe the more times you connect your probes to set them up the looser they will become. In my case only the signal output terminal is slightly looser and I do mean slightly.  Probably because I tend not use the earth terminal so much as it has little impact on the trace set up.  It is probable that the mounting of these terminals is not very mechanically sound but to be fair setting up of probes should not need to be repeated very often.   A consequence of the relatively cheap price for a pretty comprehensive 4 Channel scope.
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16076
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 10:48:38 am »
AFAIK it's a bit of bent metal soldered TH on the motherboard. I am very careful of such things. In an educational or school environment they'd be broken in a week.
 

Offline Old Printer

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 11:11:32 pm »
I've gone from looking at the 1054Z at $350 to the new Siglent's at $500 and now the new Rigol 5000 at $1000. I am still learning my Analog Discovery 2 that I bought because it had so many tools in one purchase. I like toys so a 4 ch MSO with individual channel control knobs and HDMI output looks fun, but at $1000 hard to justify for a sometimes hobby. I should buy a 1054Z, but I think my AD2 can out do it looking at digital signals and I love the 25" screen. So I do nothing :)
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19123
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2019, 12:15:11 am »
I've gone from looking at the 1054Z at $350 to the new Siglent's at $500 and now the new Rigol 5000 at $1000. I am still learning my Analog Discovery 2 that I bought because it had so many tools in one purchase. I like toys so a 4 ch MSO with individual channel control knobs and HDMI output looks fun, but at $1000 hard to justify for a sometimes hobby. I should buy a 1054Z, but I think my AD2 can out do it looking at digital signals and I love the 25" screen. So I do nothing :)
Got a PC or network connection on the bench ?

You can do this:

https://youtu.be/W30AqcDQL18
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline WildMOSFET

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 21
  • Country: it
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2019, 11:05:17 am »
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:11:15 am by WildMOSFET »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9587
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2019, 11:05:59 pm »
Here is a good price for the DS1054Z

https://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z

Look here to unlock software "limitations"

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/
I think Batterfly adds tax later, which puts the price in the same range as most other outfits.
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1573
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2019, 01:01:53 am »
There's no way of knowing what is coming around the corner and the manufacturers won't say because it will disrupt sales of the existing product.  Given that Rigol dominates the entry level scope market, they won't be disrupting that anytime soon.  Siglent has 3 entries in the lower range so they're not going to do anything soon.  At some point, the only players left are high dollar.

Now if the Keysight 1000x becomes software hackable, then the 449 version could be a killer. Besides the lack of huge memory, I can't see any problems with it.
Frankly speaking, I use a scope with only 1Mpts of memory, and I don't feel limited for most of the time with good trigger setting.
The Keysight 1000X (2-channel) is software hackable.  Look for FERCSA.ksx in eevblog.
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1573
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2019, 01:05:49 am »
I think the MSO5000 is the successor of the 1054Z.
Rigol has invested a lot of effort and money into their chipset, so they are going to use it in all their DSO gear, imho. I doubt they can produce something cheaper than the 5000 with that chipset.
MSO5000 is too expensive (the firmware is still in like in alpha version, even when Rigol says it is 1.1.4.4) to be the successor of the 1054Z.  So far, the successor of the 1054Z is the 1054Z.
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16076
  • Country: gb
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2019, 09:28:09 am »
Yes totally agree.

I recently needed a two channel AWG and my other digital scope snuffed it inconveniently. I sat and thought about an MSO5000 but the basic entry level 70MHz model here is £882 after tax etc. I did a side by side comparison of it and some other off the shelf kit and came to the conclusion it wasn't worth it even if you crack it with all the options. Firstly I don't actually need a 300MHz scope (and if I do which is rare I've got a Tek 250MHz 475A floating around so meh). Secondly the AWG performance is rubbish compared to their much older standalone DG1022Z. Thirdly it's buggy and the software still sucks. Fourthly I don't want to do any logic analysis past some basic serial debugging on a scope - I'd rather use something with a better interface. Fifthly, there's a hell of a lot of investment to lose at once if it goes bang.

Really when you spend £882 you're getting a 70MHz 2 channel DSO with no options. If you're not going to crack it, you could do way better.

Ergo I spent £738 on a DS1054Z and DG1022Z. Old, reliable, known quantities. Due to Rigol's offers at the moment, you get ALL options free on the DS1054Z other than bandwidth at the moment and our local reseller doesn't sell the bandwidth upgrade because they know someone is going to just hit riglol. Incidentally I haven't cracked mine yet. I just want to see if I can make do with 50MHz Rigol until I need anything more and so far so good.

I still think at this point the DS1054Z is the best deal out there. The siglent equivalent is more expensive. The keysight equivalent is significantly more expensive. Other cheaper units are inferior. It's literally the sweet spot they have there. It's not perfect but it's an excellent compromise.

Another thing to note with Rigol. A lot of the newer things they are bringing out are inferior to the older ones. For example if you compare the new line of AWGs they are selling to the older DG1000Z series, they are inferior. The interface is poor and the specifications are worse than the older units. I suspect that this may be carried on if there is a DS1054Z replacement any time soon.

This might be the pinnacle of cheap scopes and I wonder how long it'll last.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 09:31:59 am by bd139 »
 

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8670
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Rigol DS1054Z - Successor after ~5 years?
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2019, 12:41:20 am »
Very interesting survey of recent Rigol "progress" there, bd. I also don't find their new stuff all that compelling, neither from a spec nor a design point of view. Although I wish the responsiveness of the DS1054Z was better (who doesn't), it's still hard to beat for a wallet-friendly, general-purpose scope. And thank goodness the spelling errors have been fixed. Finally! It only took a few years. :palm:

If the Siglent SDS1104X-E had been out when I was in the market for the DS1054Z, I might have spent the extra dollars. It's really just a matter of budget, which one to get between them.
I TEA.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf