Searching PCB Manufacturer for hobbyist

[terriea]

Hi folks,

I want to etch a PCB for a project, but I have no intention to inverst in all the equipment and spend time on drilling holes etc... I heard there are places that etches and drills PCBs for a reasonable price all over internet.
I did a quick search but I'm not even sure to use the correct terms. Beside a few places like pcbexpress.com and custompcb.com, most results I find are professionals only PCB manufacturer that does not seem to make low quantity.
I realy search for something simple, as cheap as possible for very very low quantity (just one is enought). The solutions I find on pcbexpress and custompcb seems even too fancy for me (two layers boards minimum). minimum price is around 95$ for two pieces (pcbexpress) or 75$ for 4 pieces (with one week to process for custompcb). Are these standard prices?

I'm not even sure to search the right thing, I'm a bit lost. Does any of you have any advice, places to recommend, places to avoid?
I guess it's better to find a manufacturer as close as possible from where I leave (for shipping costs) anyone know a good address in Canada (Quebec)?

Thanks

[joelby]

For small boards, low quantities and slower turnaround, you could try http://batchpcb.com .

[GeoffS]

Most PCB manufacturers are set up for bulk production and (may) have an initial setup charge.
This is OK if you're getting hundreds of boards but can make getting a few boards made up, a bit expensive.
It's also going to depend on how many layers, number of holes, copper weight, etc.

I've used PCBcart with some success. Good turnaround (less than 2 weeks) and reasonable prices.

[EEVblog]

I use and recommend pcbcart.com

Dave.

[Zero999]

I've always made simple PCBs myself. The investment is minimal and if you use all SMT devices, there are no holes to drill, other than for mounting.

All you need is some etching crystals or fluid, a plastic tray, a laser printer (if you don't have this, use an injet and photocopy it), a polishing block, a clothes iron and some copper clad board. I clean the copper clad board with a polishing block, print the design on to clay coated magazine paper (it doesn't matter if there's print on it, it will still work, plain copier paper will also work), iron it onto the board, soak it in water and etch it.

Where I used to work, I got my boards made externally but I didn't select the manufacturer so I can't help you there.

[TopherTheME]

Sparkfun's www.batchpcb.com is always good if time isn't an issue.

I've used Sierra Circuits with good success for projects at school that required some PTFE based boards
http://www.protoexpress.com/content/webpcb_faq.jsp

I've recently put an order in to www.sunstone.com but I haven't received the boards yet. They're prices and turn around seem good but I'll give the final verdict when I get the boards.

[DavidDLC]

I just received my first pcbs from BatchPCB and the quality is pretty good, but as TopherTheME mentioned the time is an issue, they will deliver in about 3 to 4 weeks.

Price is cheap and if you have several designs you can take advantage of the handling charges.

[Jon Chandler]

PCBFabExpress will make boards up to 10 in.sq. for $15 each in a quantity of 5 with a 5 day turn.  This includes solder mask and silk screen.  I've used them a number of times with great results.  The 5 day turn usually seems to slip a few days....

ExpressPCB will make 3 boards of 2.5" x 3.8" for $51.  A limitation or a feature depending on your point of view is that you must use their layout software.

I've used both of these companies and have been happy with the results.


Jon

[sonicj]

10 - 100mm x 100mm x 1.6mm  = $28 iteadstudio PCB Prototyping

if they are using the same gear/plant as their housebrand boards then the quality is very good! their arduino clone makes the original look bad when placed side by side.
-sj

[TopherTheME]

10 - 100mm x 100mm x 1.6mm  = $28 iteadstudio PCB Prototyping

if they are using the same gear/plant as their housebrand boards then the quality is very good! their arduino clone makes the original look bad when placed side by side.
-sj

This seems almost to good to be true. The site says they ship in 4-6 days as well. Have you (or anyone) ever used them before?

[sonicj]

This seems almost to good to be true.

this is what i initially felt about some of their retail products. i saved a good chunk of loot on supplies through these guys. quality on the basic supplies (jumpers, headers, sockets, etc.) was better than expected.

The site says they ship in 4-6 days as well.

they were very quick answering my emails; same day (night) in both cases. i placed a retail order for roughly 35 items and my package shipped the following business day. a very reasonable $7 shipping on a $80 order.

Have you (or anyone) ever used them before?

i cannot speak for their pcb fabrication service as i have not tried it first hand.

i DID, however, order a few boards from their Open Source Bare Board selection. aside from a few silk screen flaws (top layer text) these boards are as good or better than any other small run/prototyping board i've come across.

im not sure if im reading this correctly, but it sounds like if you submit your design w/o copyright restrictions they give you some free...   OpenPCB
i'll shoot them a email and ask about the details. cheers!
-sj

[TopherTheME]

Looking more closely that the site, some of their boards don't seem to be very good, i.e. holes misaligned with pads.



I may try them out anyway just because $28 for that many PCBs of that size its pretty amazing even if they aren't top notch.

[thakidd]

Thx for the info all. I was about to order a few boards!

[sonicj]

Looking more closely that the site, some of their boards don't seem to be very good, i.e. holes misaligned with pads.

I may try them out anyway just because $28 for that many PCBs of that size its pretty amazing even if they aren't top notch.

my ssop example was much better than the one on the site, but not perfect. my iteaduino (arduino clone) is one of the best looking boards i've ever seen... edges are flawless, shiny pb free joints, screens look very precise. after looking over a variety of their boards, im led to think that this is a new facility or new equipment and they've been dialing it in on fly.

i'll try to snap some photos of their arduino shields, etc.
-sj

[allanw]

$28? Dream come true for me. Time for some high power RGB led driver boards...

ps: their site reminds me a lot of seeedstudio which offers a very similar service: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-2-layer-10cm10cm-max-10pcs-p-396.html?cPath=64_12

[sonicj]

Time for some high power RGB led driver boards...

nice! i made a beefy RGB driver the other day. care to share some details?
-sj

[allanw]

Well, originally I tried to design one based on selecting a DC DC converter first, off Digikey. I thought choosing a high frequency, above 1MHz, would be a good idea since it would minimize the component sizes. I thought about using one of Linear's three output IC's but then the controller chip would have to dissipate 6W+ which was not good.

I then tried out National's Webench tool and was amazed by it. It made a way more efficient design than I would have, since I basically have no experience in DC/DC converters. The frequency it chose was only around 400kHz.

I'm trying to make a very flexible board that can output up to 3x 24V at 350mA. I might have to spec it down to 12V if it's infeasible to do 24V.

I just need to find a good heatsink for the LED's I bought:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4530
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44043

[sonicj]

so no mixing? no dimming? this going in a flashlight?

that second emitter looks sweet!

this is the strip i bought from dx. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14965
3 transistors driven by an arduino over bluetooth. completely pointless project for me, but was a good learning experience!
-sj

[allanw]

Definitely going to have dimming, which is simple to do with most controllers provided you can generate the PWM signal. I'm thinking about attaching a cheap wifi modules to them and doing some interesting public art with them.

The strip looks really nice and cheap. I might actually pick up a few of those, it'd be really interesting to use them as Christmas lights...

Here's another thing I attempted to make a while ago:



The board's 8" x 0.75" and has 32 individually controlled RGB LED's (but only 20mA ones). They're 12-bit PWM controlled by 4 TLC5947's. The boards are extendable too. Was going to make a light saber or something with them but accidentally made the LED through-holes too small so I need to get new boards made...

Oh and to bring this back on topic, the last board I showed was from Sparkfun. They're pretty cheap for low quantities of board, but it still costs at least $30 and takes almost a month to get to you...

[sonicj]

woops! that sucks! looks nice otherwise!

the strips are definitely neat! cut-able, extend-able!

check this out: http://www.spinnakerbeachclub.com/ i designed & installed the leds in the bar in the middle on the front page. (by design, i mean selected pre-built components on a system level. not the actual circuits.) i think 20-something RGB tubes, all dmx control via computer. a shame they didn't have anyone competent enough to select some decent programs for the photo shoot.  most of the photos are in the middle of a transition or on some chasing sequence.
-sj

[Zero999]

The board's 8" x 0.75" and has 32 individually controlled RGB LED's (but only 20mA ones). They're 12-bit PWM controlled by 4 TLC5947's. The boards are extendable too. Was going to make a light saber or something with them but accidentally made the LED through-holes too small so I need to get new boards made...

I noticed you managed to get some of the LEDs on there.

Did you drill the holes larger or surface mount the leads?

I think you should use the boards anyway or is it too much hassle?

[sonicj]

looks like the leds would edge mount ok...
-sj

[TopherTheME]

I've recently put an order in to www.sunstone.com but I haven't received the boards yet. They're prices and turn around seem good but I'll give the final verdict when I get the boards.

An update about my order from sunstone: I ordered the boards late at night on Friday Sept 24, so they basically got my order Monday morning on Sept 20th. My PCBs shipped out on Wednesday Sept 22nd! Due to UPS being very slow and the crappy mail service at my uni I didn't get the boards until today. Anyway, the boards look very professional and very well done. I ordered three 0.7 x 1.95in boards for about $37 shipped which is pretty dam good considering a lead time of two days + shipping time. When ever I need small boards done fast I think these guys will definitely be getting my business from now on. 


I also ordered some (large 10x6cm) PCBs from Iteadstudio. They sent me an email soon after I placed my order letting me know my boards word be finished in a couple days, so far so good. I'll post an update when I receive them.

[allanw]

Great. I've just placed a PCB order with them and also bought their clone logic analyzer since everything's 10% off now.

http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=221

[TopherTheME]

I got the boards from Itead this morning and they turned out pretty dam well. Some of the holes and pads are off by a little bit but not nearly enough to cause any problems. I got 11 (6 untested) 10x6cm boards for $28 + $3 shipping which is by far the best price I have ever seen. I think I'm going to start using Itead for all my future hobby projects instead of BatchPCB.

So in summary, thumbs up for Itead. 

[allanw]

Got my boards too. Total of 17 day turnaround time which isn't too bad. It's a functional clone of:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9834

Except mine only costs $15, not $50.

[joelby]

Except mine only costs $15, not $50.

Good one! Sparkfun really are quite expensive. Consider their Spartan 3E breakout board. It costs $79 and consists of one $24 chip and 32 capacitors, and the PCB is two layer and fairly small. Not to mention that it doesn't include pads for program flash memory or an oscillator, which you're more or less screwed without anyway.

[sonicj]

I got the boards from Itead this morning and they turned out pretty dam well. Some of the holes and pads are off by a little bit but not nearly enough to cause any problems. I got 11 (6 untested) 10x6cm boards for $28 + $3 shipping which is by far the best price I have ever seen. I think I'm going to start using Itead for all my future hobby projects instead of BatchPCB.

So in summary, thumbs up for Itead. 

sweet! pics?

Got my boards too. Total of 17 day turnaround time which isn't too bad. It's a functional clone of:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9834

Except mine only costs $15, not $50.

that board looks great imo! is this going to be a flashlight?

[DavidDLC]

I want to order from IteadStudio, I use Eagle.

What is the equivalent file of NC drill pcbname.txt ?

I have the generated files:

pcbname.drd
pcbname.drl
pcbname.dri

Is that a matter of just rename the file ?

Please send me your comments.

Thanks.

[TopherTheME]

I believe eagle generates a drill file that is a .txt file.

Look here for more info: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/tutorial_info.php?tutorials_id=109

[House91320]

Batch pcb if you can wait 2 weeks.

[DavidDLC]

I just received my first order from IteadStudio, I'm really happy with the pcbs and specially with the price. $16.00 dlls for 10 pcbs maximum size 5 by 5 cm and shipment included.

I will continue using them, I just ordered other 2 designs.

[metalphreak]

http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz/special_price.php

Both times I've used gold phoenix I've had my boards arrive in under 10 days. Quality of the boards is perfect although I only did 2 layer boards.

Always received more boards than what they quote as well. My last order was for boards less than 1x1" so I should have only received 100. Ended up with 3 v-scored panels of 50 each. They also appeared to have done a visual/electrical inspection because 2 boards were marked with an X.

If you have a few designs to be made, the extra fees for multiple designs isn't too bad and the overall price is pretty good. If your board has a common use you can always sell them or split the costs with others who want the same thing.

Also, I'm certain I read somewhere that Gold Phoenix are the ones who do all the fabrication for BatchPCB.

One of the panels:

"If all designs on the panel are square and the same size, V score can be applied to the panel and number of project is 20."
$30 extra, design all your prototype boards to be the same size if you can, and its pretty cheap.

[osmosis321]

I'm not even sure to search the right thing, I'm a bit lost. Does any of you have any advice, places to recommend, places to avoid?
I guess it's better to find a manufacturer as close as possible from where I leave (for shipping costs) anyone know a good address in Canada (Quebec)?

Gold Phoenix (goldphoenixpcb.biz) is the company I use.  I think it's also the company Sparkfun uses.

[Chris_R]

Does anyone have any experience ordering from iteadstudio from anywhere except the US?  I'm in the UK and I'd like to know if I'm going to get stung on import tax

[LEECH666]

That really depends on the costums regulations of your country.

Living in Germany for me it's like this (only takin small irregular shipments into account):

Anything under 22 Euro -> VAT and import tax free.

Anything over 22 Euro but under 150 Euro -> VAT has to be payed (19%), Import tax free.

Anything over 150 Euro -> Import tax has to be paid, VAT slapped on top of all ([value + shipping cost + import tax] x 1,19).

I also read that they forgoe any fees that are under 5 Euro. So the total VAT/import tax free value is a little bit ove 22 Euros.

I ordered their 10 pcs. 100mm x 100mm boards (actually 100mm x 80mm in my case) for 33$.
Given how weak the US Dollar is at the moment, the PCBs value is a total of around 24-25 Euros here.

VAT:

25 Euro x 0,19 = 4,75 Euros

Guess I won't be charged at all (under 5 Euros). Let's see how this works out.

But even if I get charged 30 Euros for 10 PCBs at the size of 100mm x 100mm
is still pretty good.

The cheapest german manufacturer I could find want's around 50 Euros for a single 100mm x 160 mm
(Eurocard) PCB.

I hope the PCBs arrive soon (status just changed to shipped yesterday).

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

[Jon Chandler]

I just received my first order from IteadStudio, I'm really happy with the pcbs and specially with the price. $16.00 dlls for 10 pcbs maximum size 5 by 5 cm and shipment included.

I will continue using them, I just ordered other 2 designs.

I ordered boards from IteadStudio in early December and received a notice that they were shipping about a week later.  The tracking information shows they were turned over to China Post in Shenzeng on December 12th, and they have not moved from there.  It's not IteadStudio's fault.  I understand that there's been a huge problem with China Post getting things shipped with the Christmas rush for iPads and stuff.

The latest word is that China Post is expected to clear the backlog AFTER Chinese New Year.

Yes, it's not there fault, but a six day turn doesn't help if it's going to be 6 weeks or more before I receive the boards.  I don't know if current orders are being shipped and faster.

[LEECH666]

DUH!

Well I didn't take that into account. However, I am not depending on those PCBs.
The sooner the better, but I am not in a hurry.

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

[mitpatterson]

I have been using a service run by Dorkbox PDX in portland Oregon, run by Laen, he has a simple way of doing it, for shipments in the US shipping is free/included, outsiide he charges a mininal fee, check the site as i don't recall. But as of right now(1/17/2011) the price is $5 per sq. inch for 3 copies so $1.66 per copy per sq. inch(but you have to get 3 copies). It works sorta like batch PCB in that he collects a lot of orders and sends out a panel, difference is, he uses a US board house(i belive chicago area if i recall) and no setup or shipping fees. You can send him the gerbers or eagle files(then he makes the gerbers for you) the turn around time is 9 days from when the panel goes out(plus shipping time, so a little less than 2 weeks total) so a bit faster than batch PCB.

I know he trieds to do a panel at least once a month or so(latley they have been like 2-3 times a month) He also has tried to do 4 layers ocascionally(less often) and that is $10 a sq. inch.

the minums are pretty good:
6 mil trace width
6 mil spacing
15 mil clearances from traces to the edge of the board
13 mil minimum drill size.
7 mil minimum annular ring

He tab routes the panels so there are a small burr where the panel was broke apart, nothing a quick file won't take care of, but the rest of the edge is routed, so smooth. He also is very friendly and willing to work with people on their designs, look over them ect. hes caught quite a few of my silly mistakes before the panel goes out.

The website is pcb.laen.org The next panel goes the 24th of this month.

Also, he has now seteled on a nice purple color for the panels, he does reserve the right to change it though. And I Beilve the default finish is HASL lead free, he does offer the ability for people who want/need ENIG to pay/split the upgrade price, and i've noticed all the boards i've ordered so far have been ENIG, but no guarantees. I've attached a scan of the front side of one of my latest boards(a ardunio(328) based servo controller, there is one goof up on the silkscreen, my fault cause i used proportional not Vector for the "font'.)


***Disclaimer***: I am in no way shape or form affilated with pcb.laen.org other than a satisfied customer, I have not been paid or compensated for this write up/review. Prices and speciffications are subject to change, please visise pcb.laen.org for the most up-to-date information.
[/End Disclaimer]

[cjk2]

I recommend Gold Phoenix as well. I have had at least 5 panels made over the years by them and I have always been happy with the quality. They will route your boards to any shape you like (I like round corners) and allow you to put up to 6 different designs on a panel for $30 extra.

I buy the 100 or 155 sq. inch package then add $30 for multiple designs and $20 for "complex board shape"

So I end up at $150 or so for 6 different designs all with any shape I want and several copies of each. As others have said I always receive more boards than I order. Sometimes I have even had my order doubled for free.

Turn around time is under 2 weeks. I think the best I have received is about 10 days and the worst is around 15.

[LEECH666]

Well, looks like my PCBs left Hongkong

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

[Jon Chandler]

Well, look like my PCBs left Hongkong

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

Was this order from ITeadStudios?  Hopefully my experience is the rarity.  Maybe I should order my boards again and see if the second batch has a more timely delivery.

[LEECH666]

Well the picture displays an inquiry I did (at http://app3.hongkongpost.com/CGI/mt/enquiry.jsp ) using the code I got 4 days ago with Itead's "Order Update" mail.

Hope it doesn't get stuck in customs.

Anyway I'll keep you updated, and will make some pics once I got the PCBs.

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

//EDIT
Minor typo fixed.

[TopherTheME]

You usually won't get any tracking info after it leaves China.

I think for my next PCB order, I'll shop american. Not that I've had any troubles with Itead or BatchPCB, but I've recently ordered some other items back in November of last year and still have yet to receive them. Although, one or several of these items you could consider as "questionable" and probably got stuck in customs.

[LEECH666]

I've got to say I would be pissed if custom would hold back my goods for almost 3 months.
Let's see how this turns out. Time isn't really an issue, but as I said the sooner the better.

It's 2:46 am here now. I should go to bed.

Good night,
Florian

[TheDirty]

For these transfers, usually you can use the Chinese tracking number on the USPS site to track it once it's landed in the US.

[metalphreak]

Shipping from Hong Kong last year was chaotic before Christmas. I had things ordered beginning of November that showed up 6-8 weeks later. If you are going to order around that time of year, pay the extra $2-3 for a tracking number (a proper one) if the company does it. Registered post tends to be prioritized

The other option is to pay for EMS which is usually less than a week, but you're getting into DHL/Fedex pricing then.

[LEECH666]

The shipping option I selected was Registered Air Mail.
I think the only other option was DHL which was way more expensive (roundabout 30$ IIRC).

Tracking to Germany seems unavailable (available for DHL only).

Cheers,
Florian

[Zero999]

Looking more closely that the site, some of their boards don't seem to be very good, i.e. holes misaligned with pads.

I agree. I could drill holes better than that.

Although one person may have had a good PCB from them, their next PCB might not be so good. Going from what people have said here, it seems like the quality is inconstant. They might be subcontracting the work to various other companies depending on who's cheapest so it's the luck of the draw whether the quality is good or poor.

[Chasm]

How unfair, mine a re still on their way. =)

[LEECH666]

Ok small update.



There seems to be some left over copper here. It looks a bit more scratched because I meassured conductivity to check for shorts on this PCB.
Not the case. This tiny tin covered spot is on each of the 11 PCBS, so I guess this had something to do with their gerber to film process (but I am not entirely sure).



They plated through my NPTH drills. D:
Hope this doesn't happen on the more critical kind of drillholes. In my case it doesn't really matter.




For some reason they fucked up the solder mask on my vias. Some have solder mask over 'em some don't. D:
Solder resist gerbers for both layers where included. Again not critical for me.

There is also a tiny offset of drillholes to to the center of the pads (only the square ones), and some tiny offset of the solder resist layer around each pad. This might be covered by the tolerances tho, as I can only see this with my 15x magnifier.

Cheer from Germany,
Florian

PS: I'm sorry your stuff didn't arrive yet. Maybe you chose some different kind of shipping? Not Registered Air Mail?

[Chasm]

For some reason they fucked up the solder mask on my vias. Some have solder mask over 'em some don't. D:
Solder resist layer for both layers where included. Again not critical for me.

Did you check your Gerbers again?

PS: I'm sorry your stuff didn't arrive yet. Maybe you chose some different kind of shipping? Not Registered Air Mail?

Parcel delivery is usually in the afternoon. Even if not it's not much of an issue, I did not even order the parts so far. To many half baked projects and the wish to keep postage down.

[LEECH666]

Gerbers look good to me! See picture.

[Laen]

There seems to be some left over copper here. It looks a bit more scratched because I meassured conductivity to check for shorts on this PCB.
Not the case. This tiny tin covered spot is on each of the 11 PCBS, so I guess this had something to do with their gerber to film process (but I am not entirely sure).

How bizarre.  Maybe they only do final electrical testing and not step-by-step automated optical inspection?  That would've been rejected by my fab.

They plated through my NPTH drills. D:
Hope this doesn't happen on the more critical kind of drillholes. In my case it doesn't really matter.

Wow, they added an annular ring?  Why the heck would they do that?

For some reason they fucked up the solder mask on my vias. Some have solder mask over 'em some don't. D:

How weird that it would be there for some but not others.  You'd think they'd make one film for all the boards.

There is also a tiny offset of drillholes to to the center of the pads (only the square ones), and some tiny offset of the solder resist layer around each pad. This might be covered by the tolerances tho, as I can only see this with my 15x magnifier.

Most US fabs have a soldermask tolerance of 2 mils and a drilling registration tolerance of 5 mils.  If you can only see it under 15x magnification, then it's probably fine.

-Laen

[LEECH666]

No I can't say they added an annular ring (pad) but the holes of my NPTH drillsholes are shiny on the inside. Pad size is still zero. I doesn't really matter in my case, as the NPTH holes are the mounting holes only (4 holes in total). I think they might not be able to properly process NPTH holes. I don't know too much about the actual manufacturing process, but my guess would be, that they drilled the NPTH holes before they sent the boards into the electroplating bath.

However the solder resist inconsistencies are weird. As you said one would think they process the design once, and then duplicate it. However some bords have all vias covered with solder resist, some have all vias left free (as in the gerbers), and some even some vias covered and some left free. Again it doesn't really matter to me.

I guess the offset isn't an offset then. All in all I am still pretty happy with the quality of the boards at that price. Turn around was like 14 days including weekends, so not too bad.

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

[Zero999]

Maybe they only do final electrical testing and not step-by-step automated optical inspection?  That would've been rejected by my fab.

I'd be very surprised if they do any form of inspection or testing given the price they're charging.

I remember someone at work getting some board sfor a project by a friend of his. It was very shoddy and one of the PCBs had a short circuit on a via!

[Bored@Work]

No I can't say they added an annular ring (pad) but the holes of my NPTH drillsholes are shiny on the inside.

It needs extra processing to not plate a hole. The hole has to be covered during the hole plating or a second round of drilling would be needed.

[Laen]

No I can't say they added an annular ring (pad) but the holes of my NPTH drillsholes are shiny on the inside. Pad size is still zero. I doesn't really matter in my case, as the NPTH holes are the mounting holes only (4 holes in total). I think they might not be able to properly process NPTH holes. I don't know too much about the actual manufacturing process, but my guess would be, that they drilled the NPTH holes before they sent the boards into the electroplating bath.

Oh, right.  Asian manufacturers drill, plate the holes, then etch the pattern.  US fabrications drill, etch the pattern, then plate.

[Psi]

I got these boards made by http://www.ourpcb.com/

There were no problems at all, the boards worked great and i didnt find any mistakes.
(I've only used the company once though)
They did post me a card for new years though, so they're the kind of company that will go out of their way to be friendly.

[Chasm]

Got my boards today, seems that customs took a second look.

As far as I can tell on the first look all PCB are the same.
Next up, upping the ante and ordering the 6mil design.

OTOH, it seems that a part is missing from my order. Let's see how they react. (Customs did not open the parcel.)

[Jon Chandler]

Finally!  My boards just arrived.  Shipped on December 12th and here on January 29th.  China Post had huge problems in shipping from Shenzeng.

The boards look pretty decent, especially considering the price of US$12 plus $4 for shipping for 10 boards.  The picture shows some of the boards have marks on the edges.  For this price, 5 of the 10 boards are electrically tested.

Unlike boards from PCBGeek and PCBCart (where I purchased the TAP-28 boards) which came vacuum-sealed in plastic, this stack was just taped together and wrapped in bubble wrap.

Based on these boards, and assuming the shipping was an abnormality,  I'd recommend ITeed Studios as good source for very low cost boards.

ITead Studios

[TopherTheME]

Finally!  My boards just arrived.  Shipped on December 12th and here on January 29th.  China Post had huge problems in shipping from Shenzeng.

The first set of boards I bought from Itead arrived in about 2 week from when I ordered them. I ordered another set in the first week of January and of course have yet to see them. I think something must be going on in customs as things are taking a lot longer to get out of China these days.

For all of my more "serious" stuff, I still use www.sunstone.com. They are more expensive but using Value Proto, I've had my boards in about a week from the day I order them. The quality is a lot better than most chinese places too.

[Jon Chandler]

China Post had huge problems shipping around the holidays.  There are reports of thousands of shipments being delayed.  ITead had a post about it here.  The post shows an interesting notice from China Post.  It looks very formal.  No idea what it actually says.

[johnmx]

FYI (copy/paste from an email):

Würth Elektronik is a German PCB manufacturer with three plants in Germany. We are Europe’s biggest PCB manufacturer.
Our segment is to be found in PROTOTYPES, SMALL, and MEDIUM VOLUMES. One of our plants exclusively produces PROTOTYPES. The two others make SMALL and MEDIUM VOLUMES.

Conventional PCBs(from 2 to 24 layers) and Advanced PCBs:
-   Rigid-Flex PCBs
-   Flex PCBs
-   HDI / Microvia PCBs
-   Heat-Sink PCBs
-   Etc.

http://www.we-online.com

I never used their services. I just know about them today.

[StanT]

I've used these people a few times http://www.pad2pad.com/
no complaints

[LEECH666]

Würth Elektronic is a well known component manufacturer here in Germany. I know them mainly for their inductors and coils

I wouldn't really group them with the hobbyist compatible pcb manufacturers. They are most likely very expensive, like most professional pcb manufacturers here.

Florian

[Joy at MCS]

I think Ultra  Electronics in the UK might also do make PCB's as well

[osmosis321]

Würth Elektronic is a well known component manufacturer here in Germany. I know them mainly for their inductors and coils

I wouldn't really group them with the hobbyist compatible pcb manufacturers. They are most likely very expensive, like most professional pcb manufacturers here.

I checked them out and noticed they have a bunch of metric standoff bolts, which is something I haven't seen a lot of in my regular supply haunts.

So I ordered one of their design kits; it costs US$75 and comes with "free refills for life" which supposedly means they'll replenish my supply of any parts I use from the kit on demand.  The unspoken caveat there being I'll have to eat the shipping cost.

So far so good, I've placed the order and am awaiting delivery.

[LEECH666]

Indeed, free refills sound awesome, if you do a lot of prototyping. Maybe I was wrong, however 120 Euros for a single 100mm x 100mm PCB is just too expensive for me.

Some news about the quality of my PCBs manufactured by Iteadstudio (or their contractors):

One of my coworkers bought a cheap USB-Microscope for use in our office (Electronic Design Department), which arrived here today. Of course I used it on one of the PCBs manufactured by Itead which I happend to have around.

Maybe you remember from one of my earlier posts in this thread that I talked about (supposed) stopmask-errors on some of the boards.

Bad:


Good:


Well if you take a look at the pictures you can clearly see that they have some sort of issue with their electroplating process (0.5mm THT vias, IIRC). Maybe it's related to their drill process too, as the holes of the defective vias seem to be a lot smaller than the holes of the vias that correctly plated through.

In their defense I got to say, that the PCB I have inspected with the microscope is one of the PCBs that wasn't electrically tested. I guess paying the extra 10$ for a 100% e-test might be well worth it.

I got to check the board that I actually soldered my components to. I am not sure if I used one of the e-tested (markered) board.

Over all I am still pretty happy with the price / quality ratio. It's just something I think you should know and look out for when you're dealing with them.

Cheers,
Florian

[Chasm]

As far as I can tell all my boards are ok, there are no problems with the via. OTOH a 24 thou design should not make any problems in the first place.

Next up is the 6 thou design. (Both signals and spacing.) I guess this will separate the sheep from the goats. 

I guess paying the extra 10$ for a 100% e-test might be well worth it.

I think this depends on the complexity of the design and the size, for the $12 5x5cm boards it does not seem too economical.

[LEECH666]

Just saying: 0.5mm -> 19.68 mil vias should be no problem if their lowest diameter for holes is 0.3mm.

Whatever, I am still satisfied . I only need two boards out of the eleven I got.

Cheers,
Florian

[Rossco]

You may wish to look at APCircuits out of Calgary. I find generally that if you stay in Canada you don't have to deal with the border costs. I have not used them so I am not sure of their quality BUT they do have an online price calculator that you can run quickly to get a price. I sure would like to know where you are end up going and the quality that you get. I have a couple of boards I would like to run soon. At APCircuits shipping was worth more then the cost of the boards. Please post results when your mission is complete.

[TheDirty]

Got my second run of PCB's from Laen and Dorkbot PDX.  The quality is the same as the previous batch, excellent.  I should retry for another picture as the PCB picture is not picking up the quality of the board and I'm too lazy to colour correct it, so it looks a little orangish.





I've only been getting tiny boards made up, but unfortunately the next board I want to be made is 10 sq/inch which is getting to an expensive size for the prototype batch PCB places.  I would go and get a full panel for it, but I really only need 1 of them made.  I could cut the size of this board by 1/3, but I want it to mount behind a GLCD, so the dimensions are fixed.

[mitpatterson]

Got my second run of PCB's from Laen and Dorkbot PDX.  The quality is the same as the previous batch, excellent.  I should retry for another picture as the PCB picture is not picking up the quality of the board and I'm too lazy to colour correct it, so it looks a little orangish.





I've only been getting tiny boards made up, but unfortunately the next board I want to be made is 10 sq/inch which is getting to an expensive size for the prototype batch PCB places.  I would go and get a full panel for it, but I really only need 1 of them made.  I could cut the size of this board by 1/3, but I want it to mount behind a GLCD, so the dimensions are fixed.

board looks nice, and that one your working on, WOW, amazing what having 6mil trace width abilities allows you to do. And may i ask what the board your working on is for?

[TheDirty]

board looks nice, and that one your working on, WOW, amazing what having 6mil trace width abilities allows you to do. And may i ask what the board your working on is for?

None of those traces are actually 6mil.  The smallest traces are all 10mil.  If it wasn't for the vias I could etch this board myself, but the size of the vias I need to be able to drill myself are too large for this design.

I signed up to get my motorcycle racing license again and had this idea for a lap timer/logger.  I got a Venus GPS module from the first Sparkfun FreeDay and was using it in a hiking datalogger, but there are a few professional lap timers out there that are based on GPS and this Venus module has a pretty good update rate.  Not certain how accurate it's going to be, but I'm not looking for hundreds of a second here.   I looked around for a pretty and simple monochrome GLCD to implement with it and settled on a KS0108 that I ordered from e-bay on the weekend.  I got the idea on Friday, and threw everything into a schematic and dumped it all on the board, so the image of the board there is a rough draft that I threw together in a couple days.  Still needs all the labeling and a bunch of tweaking before I'm happy with it.

The final system is based around an LPC1756 uC, with CAN transceiver to talk to my motorcycle for basic engine/speed data, MicroSD to log the info, temp sensor for track conditions, the GPS module, and RF module for talking to whatever else I want it to.  I was thinking of putting the control buttons on a remote since I'll need the buttons on the handlebar somewhere available.

[EEVblog]

I just got 10 boards from ITead studio for $16 *delivered*:
http://www.eevblog.com/images/misc/ITeadPCBb.jpg
6/6 rules with 0.3mm/0.6mm vias.
The vias on the other side are much better aligned.
At least one of the boards had a short on it, but no big deal, I get that from PCBcart too.

Insanely good value for money. Why would you make your own boards?

Also mentioned on today's Amp Hour.

BTW, they added those numbers down the right side.

Dave.

[Jon Chandler]

Any idea where the short is Dave?  Nice looking board.

[VIPR]

For such a cheap price I didn't think they would look that good! Other than the slightly off drill registration they look nearly as good as what you would expect from a much more expensive board house.

Did they not offer electrical testing or did you just choose not to have it done as a cost savings? 

[Chasm]

For such a cheap price I didn't think they would look that good! Other than the slightly off drill registration they look nearly as good as what you would expect from a much more expensive board house.

Did they not offer electrical testing or did you just choose not to have it done as a cost savings? 

5 out of 10 are tested and marked.
10 out of 10 costs $10 extra. Not really viable at $16 in most cases.

[LEECH666]

http://www.eevblog.com/images/misc/ITeadPCBb.jpg

Woah ... was the NC machine drunk when it drilled those vias?

My vias look pretty good compared to that besides the ones that didn't electroplate correctly. I only got like 5 vias on my board tho.

I guess they outsource their stuff to different fab houses.

I have no idea what 8/8 or 6/6 rules mean (maybe trackwidth to trackspacing in mil/thou?). //EDIT: Guess my assumption was right (couldn't watch the video at work).

My vias are c100h50 (1.00mm/0.50mm) and if they plated through they look way better than the vias on the PCBs Dave got from ITead.

That reminds me to check my assembled board, as I didn't use a tested one I think .

Cheers from Germany,
Florian

[oPossum]

I got some boards from itead (green) and DorkbotPDX (purple). These are simple TH designs with mostly 16 mil traces. Everything looks good. Drills are centered well, but not perfect. It was good to see how the gerbers are processed for mfg. (clipping of silk mostly).

I just submitted a 6/6 SMD design to DorkbotPDX - should have that in a few weeks.

Scanning the boards showed how craptacular my scanner is.
(click for 600 dpi image)

[shadewind]

I ordered two designs from iTead and got the package this friday. Unfortunately... the package contained someone elses boards! There had apparently some sort of messup in packing so I got someones boards and someone else got mine. Fortunately, one of the designs I got belonged to a guy who lives only 10 minutes by car from me so I gave him the boards and he apparently had one of my designs so I at least got one of them (which unfortunately had an incorrect footprint... but that's my fault of course). The other design is probably lost somewhere in the world

Anyway, I contacted iTead and they responded within the hour and they're of course going to remake the board that was lost and combine it with some other designs I want to make.

Strange as it may seem, even though they seem to have many quirks and weird stuff going on, I kind of like iTead anyway. All of the boards I saw (both mine and the other ones) looked very good and they seem very honest in their way of doing business and communicating.

[winddy]

NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.
An optional additional explanation is:

[zapta]

This this old thread got resurrected.  Things have changed. An excellent place to look for PCB prices is pcbshopper.com.