Setting Up My Home Lab

[Wil_Bloodworth]

I too am on the same parallel path as you and have collected quite a lot of gear since the end of October (scopes included).  However, I'm not sure it was a great idea for me (or anyone?) to have purchased all of the gear upfront.  My learning of electronics hasn't been the Udemy / Courses / whatever variety but rather through YouTube and old electronics books... and to be brutally honest, I'm at the point now where I just want to sell everything and find another hobby with less frustration and one that is more rewarding.  Unfortunately, electronics has not been rewarding at all (due entirely to my ignorance and lack of real-world experience).  For me, it has been the complete opposite and depressing.

Your journey may be completely different and I hope that it is but don't get caught up in all the "toys" or the mindset of, "I can do X with this piece of gear" until you are sure this is the hobby for you and that you will find enjoyment from it.

- Wil

[xrunner]

... and to be brutally honest, I'm at the point now where I just want to sell everything and find another hobby with less frustration and one that is more rewarding.  Unfortunately, electronics has not been rewarding at all (due entirely to my ignorance and lack of real-world experience).  For me, it has been the complete opposite and depressing.

Can I ask what part of it is frustrating you? Maybe we can help you.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Can I ask what part of it is frustrating you? Maybe we can help you.

What is frustrating for me is not knowing how to figure out what is wrong when something is supposed to be working and it is not.  Example:  I got an EICO 145 signal tracer at an estate sale and it was in bad shape so I decided to proceed to restore it.  This was a "kit" mind you so it is supposed to be something a 9 year-old child can put together.  Well, I've followed all of the schematics and replaced everything that needed to be replaced but all that happens when I turn it on is the transformer hums. I've tried going over the diagram again and again but I don't see anything obvious.  I've measured the voltages coming into the transformer and out of the transformer and everything "seems" to be valid but I can't even get the filaments or the case lamp to light up.  After I hook all the leads from the transformer to the appropriate places, nothing seems to work and now I'm ready to completely take the entire thing apart and start over from scratch... or just throw it in the trash and be done with it.

That's just a single example and I have a few.  Anytime I run into a similar problem on a piece of equipment, I'm completely stuck because I have no idea how to proceed.  Therefore, I end up putting it on the shelf, walking away, and go kick the dog. At this point, I'm pretty much ready to just take all of the things off the shelf and throw them away since I'm at a dead end on anything that wasn't working already.

I can't "learn" what was wrong unless I can figure out what was wrong... and that's the problem. It sounds simple and stupid... and you're right... I should be able to figure this stuff out as it shouldn't be that hard to diagnose the basic stuff.  But here we are.

And... it certainly isn't from a lack of bench equipment to test stuff!

- Wil

[David Hess]

And one question for the scope - should I buy a current probe to it? It seems extremely handy that I can see voltage and current at the same time.

A current probe is very handy if you plan on messing with switching power supply circuits.

Power Supply:
- Siglent SPD3303X-E Linear DC 3CH (I think this would be enough for me)
 OR
- Siglent SPD3303X Linear DC 3CH

Having more than one power supply is very handy, even if the extras are lower current.  A couple of extra multimeters are very handy also.

[xrunner]

What is frustrating for me is not knowing how to figure out what is wrong when something is supposed to be working and it is not.  Example:  I got an EICO 145 signal tracer at an estate sale and it was in bad shape so I decided to proceed to restore it.  This was a "kit" mind you so it is supposed to be something a 9 year-old child can put together.

Kits are pre-engineered to work right if assembled according to the instructions. They don't require the builder to be an expert in electrical engineering. That's why "a 9 year old child" can build it and, if put together correctly, it will function. If would do the same if we could train a monkey to assemble the same kit.

If you are trying to repair it, we are talking about another level of knowledge and the assembled electronics, even if originally a "kit" doesn't care if it was put together by a child. It can really be very complicated to fix if one or more things are wrong with it.

So I'm trying to tell you that you just may be jumping ahead of your skill level at the moment. I've been in electronics since I was knee high to a grasshopper and I'm still learning new things. Why not slow down and start at a simpler level for a while? Everyone here will help you if we can. What do you say?

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Why not slow down and start at a simpler level for a while? Everyone here will help you if we can. What do you say?

I am certainly not opposed to this... but I don't exactly know what it means (to you).  Slow down how?  And start where?  I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

- Wil

[abeyer]

I am certainly not opposed to this... but I don't exactly know what it means (to you).  Slow down how?  And start where?  I'm not sure what else I should be doing.

Well you say:

Example:  I got an EICO 145 signal tracer at an estate sale and it was in bad shape so I decided to proceed to restore it. This was a "kit" mind you

That seems pretty much like a recipe for maximally painful troubleshooting. You're looking at old used test equipment that came as a kit and is of dubious provenance... so you're going to be trying to untangle what the kit builder did wrong, what some later user broke or bodged, what's failed from age. Try limiting your projects down to one (or maybe max two) of those cases at a time might be a good start: if you're buying something old make sure it's known working correctly, or if you want to do the repair, look for a unit that you know, or at least looks, close to factory original. (and imho just avoid kits that other people assembled altogether  )

[armandine2]

Can I ask what part of it is frustrating you? Maybe we can help you.

What is frustrating for me is not knowing how to figure out what is wrong when something is supposed to be working and it is not.  Example:  I got an EICO 145 signal tracer at an estate sale and it was in bad shape so I decided to proceed to restore it.  This was a "kit" mind you so it is supposed to be something a 9 year-old child can put together.  Well, I've followed all of the schematics and replaced everything that needed to be replaced but all that happens when I turn it on is the transformer hums. I've tried going over the diagram again and again but I don't see anything obvious.  I've measured the voltages coming into the transformer and out of the transformer and everything "seems" to be valid but I can't even get the filaments or the case lamp to light up.  After I hook all the leads from the transformer to the appropriate places, nothing seems to work and now I'm ready to completely take the entire thing apart and start over from scratch... or just throw it in the trash and be done with it.

That's just a single example and I have a few.  Anytime I run into a similar problem on a piece of equipment, I'm completely stuck because I have no idea how to proceed.  Therefore, I end up putting it on the shelf, walking away, and go kick the dog. At this point, I'm pretty much ready to just take all of the things off the shelf and throw them away since I'm at a dead end on anything that wasn't working already.

I can't "learn" what was wrong unless I can figure out what was wrong... and that's the problem. It sounds simple and stupid... and you're right... I should be able to figure this stuff out as it shouldn't be that hard to diagnose the basic stuff.  But here we are.

And... it certainly isn't from a lack of bench equipment to test stuff!

- Wil

... sounds like a good fit for Mr Carlson's Patreon Course ?

[watchmaker]

I too am on the same parallel path as you and have collected quite a lot of gear since the end of October (scopes included).  However, I'm not sure it was a great idea for me (or anyone?) to have purchased all of the gear upfront.  My learning of electronics hasn't been the Udemy / Courses / whatever variety but rather through YouTube and old electronics books... and to be brutally honest, I'm at the point now where I just want to sell everything and find another hobby with less frustration and one that is more rewarding.  Unfortunately, electronics has not been rewarding at all (due entirely to my ignorance and lack of real-world experience).  For me, it has been the complete opposite and depressing.

Your journey may be completely different and I hope that it is but don't get caught up in all the "toys" or the mindset of, "I can do X with this piece of gear" until you are sure this is the hobby for you and that you will find enjoyment from it.

- Wil

Wil,

I think I understand.  Many of us remember the promise of Heathkit.  But to be frank, all you learned from the kits was how to solder.

What follows is said without knowing your previous experience and why you chose your current path.

Today electronics is much more accessible, but old books and previously built kits are not a good path.  I am coming back to this field 50 years after being HS Voc Ed Electonics student.  Things have changed drastically since the days of Lafayette Radio Electronics and Heathkit.  Some aspects have been very difficult for me to reconcile what I learned previously.  This group has been very helpful in getting me to see the error of my ways.

A good book I keep in my private library near the shower, Practical Electronics for Inventors by Scherz and Monk, provides excellent instruction on many aspects of the field as well as thoughts on setting up a lab and using instruments.  This is well worth buying before you give up.

Maybe look at some of the approaches developed in response to STEM.  Arduino and Rasberry PI come to mind.
These are module based and rely on some computer programming.  But there is a world of tutorials.

As others have said, everything depends upon your goals (short and long term).  But this is a challenging area that is very intellectual.  You cannot SEE what is going on like you can with a car or woodworking.  You have to measure and then deduce what those measurements mean.  Just reading schematics can be more challenging than reading a topographic map.

And, no one has said it yet.  But jumping in on non working kits built by an unknown person is risky.  Yes, in time it can be done.  But I would not recommend it as a place to jump in for the sake of safety.  OTOH, the equipment from that era is bulky, sucks energy, and not as good as perfectly good comparably priced equipment on eBay that was "obsoleted" by companies as standards changed.

I even gave away 3 perfect Simpson 260s here to people for their collections.  I did not want to use them after learning some new "basics" and the younger people do not even know what they were.  Nostalgia only goes so far.

[xrunner]

Will, I took a look at your history on the forum to try and get a better understanding of your history here. Back in Nov 2023 you said this about yourself -

Tim & Don,

Sorry... I have zero history with electronics and tubes so what is obvious to you/most, isn't clear to me at all... yet. I'm working on it.

...

That was three months ago. But you said "I have zero history with electronics and tubes. Zero history with electronics and in three months you want to restore radios and test equipment? To my mind that a very heavy lift.

I understand how you could be frustrated now. But on the other hand you are being a bit unrealistic. There is a lot to learn in this hobby and three months isn't enough time to get up to speed if you have Zero knowledge of electronics. I really think you are being a bit unrealistic with your goals in the hobby. I don't know how much "basic" electronics you can learn from restoring old electronics that are bound to have some quirky issues that may require a person with years of experience.

If I were you I'd step back and learn more of the basics. You seem to have a lot of test equipment so you'd have a good start learning some kits or basic Arduino interfacing to things such as LEDs, and sensors. You cound also go through some basic electronincs on the internet and make up the circuits yourself.

I don't know what else to tell you but I'd listen to other people here and see what they say.

[druantia]

I'm glad this topic came up, I had the same thoughts initially. I have wanted to start learning electronics for quite a while because I really liked it when I had to learn during two semesters.
But software engineering gave me a lot of similar frustration.  I never felt I really understood a field and that calming, concentrated flow/state of mind. I often feel like I can't think fast enough or I'm not smart enough and I have to google something every 5 minutes.
But I accepted that this is a side effect of this profession - and sometimes you work with others who are really smarter and faster than you.
But what you mentioned about rewarding, I have to disagree.
Every time I solve or figure out something  (even small, simple things), it is a huge reward and it's an awesome feeling. During my career there were a lot of things I didn't understand for the first time a read about. And there were things I didn't understand for the second or the third time either. But year after year, it became more clear.
Same in electronics - for me, even putting together my first breadboard circuit with a led and a switch, measuring some basic things on it was awesome! So I think it can be really awarding, just don't push yourself too hard. Since for me it's more of a hobby, I don't stress on it.

One of my favorite proverb is that Perfection is the enemy of progress. Most of the time, I give up my home projects because I want them to too perfect, I wanted everything to be top-notch. And this gave me a hell of a lot frustration, analysis paralysis and decision fatigue. I found myself always reading and watching videos how things should be done, and because of this, I never really progressed.
I would be much further along in my projects if I hadn't expected so much from myself and not giving up when I hit some mental frustration because of it.

So yeah, I thought about this one too. Developing software can be extremely frustrating and I asked myself: Do I really need a hobby that is that hard?

But creating something, from hardware to backend and frontend and understand how all the parts connecting and working together - even if it's something simple - for me, it's extremely rewarding.

[watchmaker]

Druantia,

I had to laugh.  I am still on resistor networks (almost done) and I am verifying my calcs empirically.  There were times I spent on a day and only got two problems reconciled.  But when I do I feel like I accomplished something.

It is amazing where the errors creep in: calculator, wiring, measuring even transcribing!!  But each resolution improves my mental discipline.

What you said about the anxiety of not feeling perfectly competent..... I fully understand.  I was basically self taught in watchmaking (with access to some highly skilled people).  I felt like the grocery store owner who could not write.  Even though I could things others could not.

It was not until I completed an invitational course of study in Switz that I finally felt like I was competent.  It took me a couple months to be comfortable in my own skin.  I felt like I accomplished things by accident.  Finally, the senior instructor took me out for drinks and said "Look, if you did it, you can DO it".

What he said may apply to you.

One of the hardest things to learn is to correctly assess your own work.  Not to over or under evaluate what one does.

[Solder_Junkie]

As a former electronics systems engineer and lifetime hobby electronics enthusiast, can I ask that you don't buy cheap soldering stations from Aliexpress, or eBay. A professional grade soldering station will last tens of years, we used Weller at work and while not as much in favour as they once were, they are an industry standard. Hakko is another good make. Don't forget a fume extractor, there are some effective ones that don't cost the earth.

I note your low cost multimeter, beware of cheap meters they can literally blow up in your hands if used on mains electricity and on the wrong range. Like soldering stations, a good multimeter will last a long time. Some of the USA made Fluke meters come with a lifetime warranty, they might cost a lot more than the cheap Chinese ones, but spread over several years it's cheap in the long run... and they won't burst into flames. If you don't want to pay Fluke prices, Brymen come recommended by Dave Jones (Mr EEV) and have pretty good safety standards.

As a home user, I wouldn't rush to buy a 200 MHz 4 channel scope. As per another reply, Siglent are likely to be soon releasing a competitor to the Rigol 12 bit ones. 4 channels are handy, I am not sure about going beyond 70 or 100 MHz unless you really need to, the cost starts increasing at an alarming rate, especially as you need a greater sample rate than the typical 1 GSa/s found on scopes up to around 100 MHz bandwidth.

Power supplies are very expensive from some sources, an ordinary linear bench supply of perhaps 0-30 Volts and 0-3 Amps will suffice for most experiments. Adjustable current limit is essential and is standard on almost all such units. One with a digital readout is handy, but one of the older ones with an analog meter is all you really need. If you work on op amps and other split rail projects, one that has + and - outputs relative to ground is useful.

An infrared "ear" thermometer is cheap and makes an easy means of measuring the temperature of components without going to the expense of a thermal imaging camera. Make sure it has an option to read up to 100 deg C, not all of them have that ability. The small sensor hole (3mm or less) gives them an advantage over the "gun" type that have a large hole and are more intended to measure large objects.

An LCR meter is very useful, as is a good transistor/diode tester. Peak Instruments made good ones.

A function generator is also handy to have.

A head magnifier, such as an Optivisor, or if working on SMD boards, a binocular microscope, are essential if you want to avoid soldering mistakes.

Have fun!

SJ

[Wil_Bloodworth]

FIRST:  My sincere apologies to the OP for bogarting this thread topic!

... sounds like a good fit for Mr Carlson's Patreon Course ?

I am a member of Mr. Carlson's Patreon but haven't seen "the course" you're referring to.  I had high hopes (still do) that I would learn a lot from Mr. Carlson and the other members there but it has been woefully over my head so I rarely go there anymore as it seems to just be a waste of time since I don't understand most of what is said there.

Wil,  I think I understand.  Many of us remember the promise of Heathkit.  But to be frank, all you learned from the kits was how to solder.

What follows is said without knowing your previous experience and why you chose your current path.

A good book I keep in my private library near the shower, Practical Electronics for Inventors by Scherz and Monk, provides excellent instruction on many aspects of the field as well as thoughts on setting up a lab and using instruments.  This is well worth buying before you give up.

Maybe look at some of the approaches developed in response to STEM.  Arduino and Rasberry PI come to mind.
These are module based and rely on some computer programming.  But there is a world of tutorials.

As others have said, everything depends upon your goals (short and long term).  But this is a challenging area that is very intellectual.  You cannot SEE what is going on like you can with a car or woodworking.  You have to measure and then deduce what those measurements mean.  Just reading schematics can be more challenging than reading a topographic map.

And, no one has said it yet.  But jumping in on non working kits built by an unknown person is risky.  Yes, in time it can be done.  But I would not recommend it as a place to jump in for the sake of safety.  OTOH, the equipment from that era is bulky, sucks energy, and not as good as perfectly good comparably priced equipment on eBay that was "obsoleted" by companies as standards changed.

There are quite a few questions there I would like to address... first, why I chose my path.  Almost all other questions can be answered by my answer to this question I believe so here goes... I'm at the end of my (software) career.  In my career, I'm on top and understand everything there is to know, can instantly diagnose pretty much anything, can create anything from scratch, and need no one for help with anything. My aplogies for sounding vain.  I do not want to sound or come across vain.  I only say this to setup my own personal expectations of myself... I'm SO used to having all the answers that I expect myself to BE at that level with electronics. I know my expectations are ridiculous but it's hard to expect anything else of yourself when (in your little bubble) everything can be done in your sleep.  Very long story short... I have extremely high and probably unrealistic expectations of ramping up my electronics knowledge and THAT is the primary cause of my frustration. So... frustration root cause #1... EXPECTATIONS (unrealistic).

STEM/Arduino/RasbPi:  Yes, these are certainly options that are tangential to my career but I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible while learning electronics. I wanted just the fundamentals without all of the bells and whistles.  Antique radios are (I think?) fairly simple and pair well with that goal. There are no transistors of any kind (well, in my path so far), there are no ICs, there are no CPUs, GPUs... there are only resistors, capacitors, vacuum tubes, a power supply, a speaker, and an antenna.  The simplicity of the entire package was my original reason for choosing this as a starter medium.

Response to working on "Kits":  Acknowledged. My only thought was that they were simple, schematics were readily available, and that the kits I chose would be useful tools down the line for diagnosing issues with radio gear. So logically (in my mind) it made sense.

Will, I took a look at your history on the forum to try and get a better understanding of your history here. Back in Nov 2023 you said this about yourself -

Tim & Don,

Sorry... I have zero history with electronics and tubes so what is obvious to you/most, isn't clear to me at all... yet. I'm working on it.

...

That was three months ago. But you said "I have zero history with electronics and tubes. Zero history with electronics and in three months you want to restore radios and test equipment? To my mind that a very heavy lift.

I understand how you could be frustrated now. But on the other hand you are being a bit unrealistic. There is a lot to learn in this hobby and three months isn't enough time to get up to speed if you have Zero knowledge of electronics. I really think you are being a bit unrealistic with your goals in the hobby. I don't know how much "basic" electronics you can learn from restoring old electronics that are bound to have some quirky issues that may require a person with years of experience.

If I were you I'd step back and learn more of the basics. You seem to have a lot of test equipment so you'd have a good start learning some kits or basic Arduino interfacing to things such as LEDs, and sensors. You cound also go through some basic electronincs on the internet and make up the circuits yourself.

I don't know what else to tell you but I'd listen to other people here and see what they say.

You are correct sir.  I touched on the arduino / raspberry pi topic a bit above (and I have considered this again and again) but let me go over that a bit again. It's, "too close to work" as I don't really want to do any more software since I'm nearing the end of a lifetime of software.  I also have no interest (at this point) in anything that involves circuit boards ("PCBs"), ICs, or "chips" of any kind.  My logic there is that those kits do not overlap (much) with the kinds of things I want to work on [initially]... antique radios from the 1940s through maybe the 1960s.  And again, I do not want to "bring my work home with me" so if it resembles software development in any way, shape, or form... I want to avoid it. My brain is already tired at the end of each day so I want to work on something completely unrelated, and to be honest... non complicated... hence the antique radios. 

I am 100% positive that every person here has an intrisic need to solve puzzles of some kind and that is why we chose the professions and hobbies we're discussing. The puzzle I've chosen was [basic] electronics. The goal was to be able to fix some simple things but I never have had any aspirations of even looking at something with a circuit board.  The puzzle should be slightly more intellectually stimulating that raking the lawn but less tasking than... anything involving a chip.

I would be much further along in my projects if I hadn't expected so much from myself and not giving up when I hit some mental frustration because of it.

Ditto.

What you said about the anxiety of not feeling perfectly competent..... I fully understand.  I was basically self taught in watchmaking (with access to some highly skilled people).

It is the lack of that access to highly skilled people that I miss.  I have team members coming to me daily for help with issues and I'm super glad to help anyone with issues.  I don't have that when I'm home alone trying to learn electronics.  You might say, "Well, you have everyone here and so on..." and that would be true but it's not "real time".  I cannot just ping someone on teams and instantly have the answer... and I'm used to that "instant answer" situation... and that is also frustrating that I cannot get immediate answers to what I'm doing wrong.

I'm impatient when it comes to learning things. I hated college because they would talk for an hour and then tell you to read 20 pages and they'd see you next week.  I would read the 20 pages in the next 45 minutes and then I wanted to keep going.  The part of waiting a week to keep going does not work for me.  I want to get A done, move on to B immediately, get B done, move on to C... and so on.  My mind does not like or do well with "conventional teaching strategy".

That said, I can slow down and do whatever is necessary to "groc" the fundamentals since I have no timeline... other than wanting to accomplish something meaningful sometime soon.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond. Your thoughts and guidance is truly appreciated!

- Wil

[druantia]

FIRST:  My sincere apologies to the OP for bogarting this thread topic!

No problem at all, this is an interesting and important topic

I'm at the end of my (software) career.  In my career, I'm on top and understand everything there is to know

This is a big statement in software. This field is so vast, that even if you work for many years, there is always something new to learn and understand. But I understand you, sometimes I also feel that I don't want to deal with software -  but then I always draw motivation from somewhere.

can I ask that you don't buy cheap soldering stations from Aliexpress, or eBay.

And what about the not so cheap Aliexpress stations?  I wanted to buy the Aixun T3A because I read good things about it - although I saw a youtube video where somebody pointed out, that on the tip there is 1V voltage, which could be problematic when your pcb is grounded for some reason, so this has put me in quite a dilemma.
Right now, I think my journey with electronics won't be soldering heavy. So I feel even the aixun is a little overkill for me.

An infrared "ear" thermometer is cheap and makes an easy means of measuring the temperature of components without going to the expense of a thermal imaging camera

This sounds like a great idea, I never thought about this!

As a home user, I wouldn't rush to buy a 200 MHz 4 channel scope.

Good point - in the first batch I'll only buy a power supply, a good multimeter (maybe bench dmm) and a soldering station (with the necessary things like fume extractor and magnifier). And after that, I will see what I need.

One of the hardest things to learn is to correctly assess your own work.

I agree 100 percent. Also, it's good to hear you managed to reach such a high level craftmanship in your interest, especially self-thought

[Veteran68]

As a home user, I wouldn't rush to buy a 200 MHz 4 channel scope.

Good point - in the first batch I'll only buy a power supply, a good multimeter (maybe bench dmm) and a soldering station (with the necessary things like fume extractor and magnifier). And after that, I will see what I need.

You likely won't need a 200Hmz scope starting out, but I do recommend you go with 4 channels. They're only marginally more expensive in most cases, and you'll inevitably need to measure a 3rd signal like a data or enable line while you're also measuring voltage and current, or some such. Not to mention most of the 70Mhz scopes from the bigger hobbyist brands are upgradable to up to 200Mhz anyway.

I think that's a good start on the basic equipment. You can get by without a scope initially, as you learn the fundamentals. As I'd mentioned, you'd be best served with two DMMs. If you can swing a decent bench DMM for one that's ideal, but again it's not necessary starting out. And realize the cheapest bench meters are just handheld DMM internals in a big empty case. I'd forget those and wait until you can swing a good starter bench DMM in the 4.5-5.5 digit range, such as the Siglent SDM3045 or a used HP/Agilent 34401A. In the meantime, pick up two decent handheld DMMs and a variety of test leads. You'll quickly find yourself needing to measure voltage and current at the same time. And you don't have to spend Fluke, Keysight, or Metrawatt money on a DMM -- Brymen makes excellent DMMs for electronics work. A step down from Brymen would be a good Uni-T or Owon DMM. Then further down, some of the Zoyi/Zotek/Aneng/Kaiweets meters are actually pretty good for hobby bench work, too, if your budget is really constrained. I have several of them in that class, including all the brands mentioned. They're cheap enough and usually precise enough to get you by for LV work, I'd just avoid doing much around mains/HV work with most of them.

I think any of the popular "Chinese" soldering stations or irons will fit your needs to start, including the USB powered pencil irons. Many recommend beginners start out with the Hakko 888D, but I recommend against its old-school tip configuration. It's terrible at delivering and regulating consistent heat. Stick with the cartridge-based irons like the T12/T18/JBC styles. Also, while cheap JBC clone stations can be fine, in most cases the clone tips are not, so you'll want to get a station that can work with genuine tips. Actually, similar to DMMs, it's best to have a couple of soldering irons on-hand -- in lieu of hot tweezers you sometimes need to "dual wield" soldering irons to get larger/stubborn SMDs. Not to mention have a backup in case one goes down. The USB powered irons are perfect here, and also serve double duty as a portable option using a USB battery pack.

I am a big proponent of spending wisely in terms of buying as much quality as you can afford. Don't settle for the cheapest test equipment just because it's the cheapest, but rather only if you're confident it'll fit your needs and won't disappoint.

[xrunner]

... The goal was to be able to fix some simple things but I never have had any aspirations of even looking at something with a circuit board.

It seems then that the cold hard answer is that you picked the wrong hobby. 

[watchmaker]

can I ask that you don't buy cheap soldering stations from Aliexpress, or eBay.

And what about the not so cheap Aliexpress stations?  I wanted to buy the Aixun T3A because I read good things about it - although I saw a youtube video where somebody pointed out, that on the tip there is 1V voltage, which could be problematic when your pcb is grounded for some reason, so this has put me in quite a dilemma.
Right now, I think my journey with electronics won't be soldering heavy. So I feel even the aixun is a little overkill for me.

The USB powered irons are perfect here, and also serve double duty as a portable option using a USB battery pack.

I am a big proponent of spending wisely in terms of buying as much quality as you can afford. Don't settle for the cheapest test equipment just because it's the cheapest, but rather only if you're confident it'll fit your needs and won't disappoint.

Seriously, look at the Pinecil.  Small USB/20V DC 70 watt iron with many tips.  Tips and Iron under $100 USD.  Then buy a $15 20V DC 100 W computer charger to power it.  I bought one to check it out.  It is smaller than the Ersa I Tool and just as effective.  Lifespan? Who knows.  But it sure beats a $150 Chinese clone that seems to become a hobby unto itself.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

... The goal was to be able to fix some simple things but I never have had any aspirations of even looking at something with a circuit board.

It seems then that the cold hard answer is that you picked the wrong hobby. 

How is that?  Antique radios do not have circuit boards.

- Wil

[xrunner]

... The goal was to be able to fix some simple things but I never have had any aspirations of even looking at something with a circuit board.

It seems then that the cold hard answer is that you picked the wrong hobby. 

How is that?  Antique radios do not have circuit boards.

- Wil

1. Define "antique".


2. Let's stick with the simple sorts of wiring you are bumping up against, point to point wiring, and compare. A one or two sided circuit board is simply wires running to other components. Its mostly very easy to follow, and compared with a lot of jumbled looking point-to-point wiring you find, its no harder to work with. So I find it hard to understand what your problem is with working on simple circuit boards as opposed to point-to-point wiring. Can you explain for us?

[Wil_Bloodworth]

... The goal was to be able to fix some simple things but I never have had any aspirations of even looking at something with a circuit board.

It seems then that the cold hard answer is that you picked the wrong hobby. 

How is that?  Antique radios do not have circuit boards.

- Wil

1. Define "antique".


2. Let's stick with the simple sorts of wiring you are bumping up against, point to point wiring, and compare. A one or two sided circuit board is simply wires running to other components. Its mostly very easy to follow, and compared with a lot of jumbled looking point-to-point wiring you find, its no harder to work with. So I find it hard to understand what your problem is with working on simple circuit boards as opposed to point-to-point wiring. Can you explain for us?

1.  I already defined that earlier in the post... radios from the 1940s and 1950s mostly.

2.  My explanation is that I have no "desire" to work on anything with a circuit board. I consider circuit boards a "slippery slope" in that if you start working on them... what's next?... transistors?  Maybe electronic switches, diodes, voltage regulators, op-amps, ICs.  Where does it end?  It doesn't end.  So, my focus (at least for now) is to keep it 100% simple with only antique radios. Who knows, I may eventually get to a point where I'm no longer challenged by that level of technology and want to move forward.  I'm not there yet and have zero desire to attempt to learn anything that isn't in a vacuum tube radio from the 40s or 50s.

A few years ago, I was talking with a fellow "athlete" friend and I told him that in addition to cycling, I was considering doing triathlons. He looked at me and said, "Why do you want to suck at three things?!"  The point is that if I work on learning 37 things instead of focusing on 5, I will never be able to master the 5.  Once I've mastered and completely understand the 5 (or the basics), I can progress to other areas. There is no point in learning about an Arduino if I never want to work on an Arduino. No one is going to come to me some day and say, "Hey, can you fix my Arduino?".  However, I may be able to fix some radios and be happy about it.

Does that help?

- Wil

[David Hess]

I think that's a good start on the basic equipment. You can get by without a scope initially, as you learn the fundamentals. As I'd mentioned, you'd be best served with two DMMs. If you can swing a decent bench DMM for one that's ideal, but again it's not necessary starting out. And realize the cheapest bench meters are just handheld DMM internals in a big empty case. I'd forget those and wait until you can swing a good starter bench DMM in the 4.5-5.5 digit range, such as the Siglent SDM3045 or a used HP/Agilent 34401A. In the meantime, pick up two decent handheld DMMs and a variety of test leads. You'll quickly find yourself needing to measure voltage and current at the same time. And you don't have to spend Fluke, Keysight, or Metrawatt money on a DMM -- Brymen makes excellent DMMs for electronics work. A step down from Brymen would be a good Uni-T or Owon DMM. Then further down, some of the Zoyi/Zotek/Aneng/Kaiweets meters are actually pretty good for hobby bench work, too, if your budget is really constrained. I have several of them in that class, including all the brands mentioned. They're cheap enough and usually precise enough to get you by for LV work, I'd just avoid doing much around mains/HV work with most of them.

More than half of my "extra" bench digital multimeters are ancient Tektronix TM500 series units which I restored.  Doing so is not for everybody, but a lot can be learned about instrument design and electronics repairing old test equipment that has full service documentation.

[watchmaker]

Wil,

If you really want to work on tube devices, then you should look at the Ham Radio forums and Antique Radios Forum.

I was educated on tubes just as ICs were coming in.  Problems with thube stuff are:

Finding tubes
High B+ voltages
Ungrounded chassis

You still need a scope, DMM and power supplies.  Plus you still need to know how electrons work in circuits.  Oscillators, amplifiers, IF ckts etc.  The theory is the same whether on tubes or transistors.  And the trouble shooting skills are pretty much the same.

As for slippery slope; how much time to you think you have left?  I doubt you or I have time to progress to hi energy hi frequency circuits.

Get a copy of Practical Electronics for Inventors.  Yes it is semiconductor oriented.  But it may give you a broader view while imparting excellent information.

I am very sympathetic to your being bored with your old craft.  it sounds like it reached a point where you were no longer in situations where you had to learn new things.  I have talked with a number of people, usually crafts persons, who experience this.  I hit the same in my work.  Typically people try to find a student so they stay energized.  But sometimes that is not feasible. (I gave up on apprentices but my website is geared to students in the schools and amatuers wanting to improve.  But I have even reduced my effor there.  40 years is time to move on.)


Seriously, tubes?  Chassis punches, rivets, terminal strips, tube sockets, wire dressing, 3 times as much horizontal space???  And don't forget, the computer used at Bletchley Park used tubes.  You can still wind up where you don't want to be even with tubes.

Just sayin.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Get a copy of Practical Electronics for Inventors.  Yes it is semiconductor oriented.  But it may give you a broader view while imparting excellent information.

Thank you.  I ordered that book yesterday and it should arrive today.

And you're right, 40+ years is enough... but I still need a mental challenge.  I'm not trying to start a new career though. I just want to learn a little bit about something new and useful at a comfortable pace.

- Wil

[Yuu]

There are no transistors of any kind (well, in my path so far), there are no ICs, there are no CPUs, GPUs... there are only resistors, capacitors, vacuum tubes, a power supply, a speaker, and an antenna.  The simplicity of the entire package was my original reason for choosing this as a starter medium.

Why do you think vacuum tubes are simple? I've never worked with them but even I can tell you that's your gain element/active device. The same principles you encounter with transistors (e.g. regions of operation, different impedances depending on what port you are looking into, etc...) would likely apply to vacuum tubes as well. Meaning it can get a little complicated.

There's also plenty of depth just in "simple" things. Some people make entire careers just designing transistors and doing device physics. That's not even to the circuit level of complexity.

If you think circuit boards are a slippery slope, what do you think about radios? :p
You might find yourself wanting to learn more about antennas -> needing to learn more about electromagnetics -> then maybe you might want/need to learn more about analysis and differential equations. Slippery slope indeed.