Setting Up My Home Lab

[druantia]

Hi EEVblog! 

I have just started learning about electronics and am looking to set up a decent home lab. I would like to share my plans with you, I'm curious about your opinion and suggestions.
About my use case: I want to learn electronics in general and I have some project idea - for example I want to build a soil moisture sensor from scratch. Mainly I'm interested in home/green house automation (with LoRa probably) and electronics in general.
If you think I have overshot or undershot with any of these, or if you have better recommendations, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 
Oscilloscope:
- Siglent SDS1204X-E 200MHz Four-Channel Oscilloscope
    - I'm aware that the SDS1104X-E is hackable, but it comes with 100MHz probes, so I'd need to buy four new ones.
      And one question for the scope - should I buy a current probe to it? It seems extremely handy that I can see voltage and current at the same time.

AWG
- Siglent SDG1032X 30MHz
 OR
- Siglent SDG1062X 60MHz

Power Supply:
- Siglent SPD3303X-E Linear DC 3CH (I think this would be enough for me)
 OR
- Siglent SPD3303X Linear DC 3CH

Soldering Station:
- JCID Aixun T3A T245 Handle
  The other soldering I was thinking of is Miniware TS80P, but I rather prefer a proper soldering station.

Multimeter:
- Currently I have quite a cheap multimeter ANENG AN8009 True RMS NCV Digital Multimeter
But I want to buy an extra one - any recommendation here?

[dobsonr741]

Nice and ambitious list. Addresses the glamorous top instruments. However, you’ll  need a lot of supplies, tools, parts before you can use the instruments. Do you have all of those already?

[druantia]

More or less. I've started a course on Udemy, and it included a long list of parts that I should buy to follow along with the course, so I have a good selection of components. I have basic tools but try to avoid the common trap of buying a ton of unnecessary things when starting something new. I will buy the necessary tools only when I really need them.

Btw, what do you think? I'm thinking between two options for AWG and power supply. I'm leaning towards the more expensive equipment because it seems more future-proof. But currently I don't have enough knowledge to tell if I really need the more expensive ones.

[dobsonr741]

One rule of thumb: don’t buy if you do not need it (yet).
One exception: money is not a problem. However, you can go for the higher model,  all the way until money becomes the problem. So we are back to square one - only buy what you really need.

So start doing building electronics, learn as you go, and raise the bar.

[Veteran68]

Siglent is an excellent option for the higher-end hobbyist gear. While you can get away with the bottom-tier brands like Hantek, FNIRSI, and (maybe a little better) Owon for entry level work, I too prefer to buy a bit more quality and features than I need, especially for core functionality like scope, PSU, and DMM. Rigol is another I'd class in that same tier, but I tend to prefer Siglent and they're developing a reputation for having a bit higher quality overall than Rigol.

I have the Siglent 1104X-E (upgraded). Unless you know you're going to be running 200Mhz often, I doubt the probes will be an issue. I'm not at home to look but I want to say my 1104X-E came with 150Mhz rated probes, and I've not driven them that high myself, but I've seen reports of others easily hitting 200Mhz on stock probes. I also have the Rigol DHO1074 12-bit scope upgraded to 200Mhz. Honestly, if you're concerned with future-proofing, I'd consider one of the new entry-level 12-bit options like the Rigol DHO800/900 or DHO1000 if you're buying a scope right now; otherwise be patient as the Siglent 12-bit entry level scopes are right around the corner.

I also have the Siglent 3303X-E upgraded to 3303X. Also the Siglent SDL1020X-E electronic load upgraded to 1030X. For AWG I have the Uni-T 962 which is a great little AWG for the cost, but have been keeping my eye out for a good deal on a SDG2042.

As to DMMs, you should have AT LEAST two, and I'm of the opinion you can never have too many. But then again I have an obsession with collecting DMMs. I'd recommend a good bench DMM. You don't need 6.5+ digits starting out, or even 5.5 digits, but again... future proofing, "buy once, cry once" etc. So if you have the disposable income to afford it, go for it. Otherwise start out on the lower end and treat yourself to an upgrade later when you outgrow it.

[Bud]

For what you want to build you only need a multimeter (which you already have) and a phone charger as a power supply. You do not need an AWG or a scope, let alone 4 channel one.

[pqass]

There's nothing wrong with [gradually] buying quality used equipment.  My only new purchase is a Keysight DSOX1204G 'scope.  The rest were all purchased used (all but the HP 'scope shown were purchased in the last 3 years).  I even repaired a couple of them so they were very inexpensive (I learned a lot from that).  And you can never have enough power supplies; I'm still short a high current switching supply.

However, for many years all I had were a couple of 3.5 digit multimeters, a cheap 40W iron, and various "wall wart", computer, home-made power supplies.

[druantia]

you only need a multimeter (which you already have) and a phone charger

Yep, it's true that I don't want to build complex things. However, it's hard to imagine that with just a multimeter and a phone charger, I'll gain such insight that I could, for example, design the circuit of a capacitive soil moisture sensor. I assume I can simulate most things with good software. But you know, it just feels nice to play with a scope and learn with it.

There's nothing wrong with [gradually] buying quality used equipment.

I agree, I don't want to buy this list at once. And I'm was thinking about used equipment too, but where I live, for some reason there are very little used electronics equipment on the market.

[alligatorblues]

Trying to stock up on precision T&M instruments is pricey. You can always do better buying used instruments, but you need to do research on how to choose wisely. I've saved at least $100,000 purchasing used instruments and standards. I got 3 Fluke 732Bs for $10,000. New, those would have run $33,000. I have 11 6.5-digit meters, 4 Fluke 8846A, 4 8845A, 3 34401A, and 2 3458A, plus a 34420A. All those cost me ~$15,000. New they would have cost ~$32,000. That's a ~$17,000 saving. I have 3 Fluke 732As I got for $3,000 total. Their going for ~$3000 ea now.

  I have 2 quad Sorensen PSU'S 15-4 each psu. With 4 of them in one unit, you can get 60V@4A, 16A@15V, and everything in between.

They're accurate to < 1.0mV, no matter how long you run them. Those go for $4800ea. I got 2 for $600, so that's a $9000 savings. I have a Lambda 0-60V 0-15A 900W psu I picked up for $100. Those went for about $40,000. So, that's a $39,900 saving. I've got 2 multiplexers by Keithley with relay cards and fast switching transistor cards. I got those for about $700. New that setup would have run $2500. 

And I have ~15 Fluke handheld DMMs from the 77 to the 87-V MAX. I've got boxes full of test leads of every type. I've got shelving units full of passives, transistors, diodes, thyristors, triacs, regulators, PMIE voltage references, op amps, proto board, breadboarding kits, spools of wire from 26awg telco to 10awg3 seoow, transistor testers, cap testers, a few USB DSOs, nuts and bolts, copper plate and bar, polycarbonate sheets, old broken instruments, heat sinks, fans, thermoelectric chips, LED lights and psus, boxes of old wall warts, boxes of salvage PCBs, boxes of scrap metal, taps and dies, GPIB<>USB adapters, gpib cables and PCIe cards, boxes filled with every type of adapter and cables the obligatory shop sound system,

A 3000W UPS with external add-on battery cabinet I got for $800. Those go for $5500 from the manufacturer, and both items were new and sealed. I've got 2 PCs I made, 3 laptops, 3 tablets, 3 smart phones, all purchased used at < 1/2 of retail.

But if you think you can do better with Chinese junk, have at it. None of my stuff breaks, and I know I'm getting an accurate reading.

One word of advice: don't waste time designing and building what you can purchase for $20. Don't use Auduino. Find a niche in the market, and design a prototype for that. This shit about building a DC PSU, or building stuff from Raspberry Pi and Auduino is going to take all your time and offer nothing in return.

I design and build what the world needs. i have a design for a 1.0 Ohm +(-) 10ppm reference resistor that sells for $635. But I'm an engineer, so I have a little head start. Invention is 10% inspiration, and the other half is perspiration.

There was a guy named W.C. Fields who once said, "I fell in love with a gorgeous blonde. She drove me to drink. For that I am forever indebted to her!" He also said, "I spent half my money on booze and women. The other half I wasted."   

[bdunham7]

How much space do you have?  This can often be an issue when selecting equipment because if you have a great need for maximum function per cubic mm, then the option of buying multiple, older, used boat anchors is not available to you.  For example, I don't have one of those Siglent PSUs but I have multiple units that do a better job overall but take up 5X the space.  If you are space-confined, have a look at the GWInstek GPP-4323 for a combined 4 channel programmable PSU and basic DC load unit.

One thing about the scope--the PP510 probes that come with the SDS1104X-E aren't quite as physically nice as the PP215 that come with the SDS1204X-E, but they perform just fine and there's really no reason to pay the extra money for the so-called 200MHz version.  Buy the SDS1104X-E and save your money for some 100X probes, a current probe or a differential probe.

For another DMM (some say you can't have too many and then prove themselves wrong) do you want a handheld or bench meter?  Since you are in the EU, probably your first choice value-wise for a handheld is Brymen and there's endless discussion of this issue here.  However, a low-end bench meter can be much handier at .... a bench.  I'd recommend a better-than-low-end bench meter, but that's a budget choice you have to make.

[pqass]

This shit about building a DC PSU, or building stuff from Raspberry Pi and Auduino is going to take all your time and offer nothing in return.

I design and build what the world needs. i have a design for a 1.0 Ohm ...

Maybe OP just wants to learn by doing; doesn't care that he's re-inventing the wheel.

Although, I bet he can sell more Arduino/RaspPi hats then you can sell 1 Ohm resistors.
EE is the wrong business to make any money in.

[druantia]

I'd recommend a better-than-low-end bench meter, but that's a budget choice you have to make.

That's a great advice, I already thought about bench meter. I'll look around!

But if you think you can do better with Chinese junk, have at it. None of my stuff breaks, and I know I'm getting an accurate reading.

For my needs, it seems more than enough. It's an interesting contrast though, going from 'just use a multimeter and a phone charger' to 'invest in precision T&M and Fluke instruments.'"
So what you are saying it implies that these Siglent tools break often and are inaccurate. Do they? Because based on my reading, it is quite recommended scope among hobbyists.
Of course if I can justify it, I can spend more money on my lab, I just try to be reasonable. Sure I can buy Fluke and precision T&M instruments, but I cannot imagine I will take advantage of it's capabilities. So my question is, do you really think I need those tools for my use case? (even if it's cheaper in used condition)
If later I really need those expensive instruments, I can always sell it and upgrade for a more expensive one. But for learning purposes and simpler home projects, it seems a good fit to me.

One word of advice: don't waste time designing and building what you can purchase for $20

I design and build what the world needs

This would be more of a learning project, not necessarily because I want money from it. And speaking of junk, I have a feeling that 99% of those sensors are really Chinese junk.
Well, for now I rather want to build something I need, because it is just a hobby for me beside software engineering. Of course this can change later when I feel more comfortable in this field.

[Veteran68]

Don't listen to the snobs. Every profession and hobby has it's elitists who look down their nose at anything that isn't the very best, top-of-line stuff that THEY use.

Siglent is not "Chinese junk" any more than an iPhone or MacBook Pro is "Chinese junk." Might not be your preferred technology or brand, but it certainly isn't junk. Actually IMO, in the category of non-professional or hobby use, Siglent probably is the top of the line brand. And they certainly do make products that serve professionals, unless only hobbyists are out there spending $30K on scopes and SAs. And while I personally wouldn't rate Rigol as high as Siglent in most areas (they have a lot to catch up with on QC for sure), they're not "junk" either. In fact many of the very bottom tier brands have their value, it just gets harder to distinguish them within all the other junk noise.

It's an overused and tiresome trope to claim that anything made in China is junk, or that the only non-junk products made in China come from American/Western brands like Apple. I get that people have some strongly-held prejudices against China, whether for ideology, human rights, or other socio-political reasons, but the US is just as capable of producing shit products as China is. China can just do it at higher scale and lower costs when they want to.

As a company having products made in China, you pay for as much quality as you want. That's why identical looking products from different brands that come from the same factory -- literally off the same manufacturing line -- can vary wildly in terms of quality. You also see this in American brands and factories. Carrier and Bryant HVAC equipment come off the same lines but at different price points, with interchangeable parts. Same with John Deere and MTD lawn equipment. That doesn't mean they all share the same quality control, the point is that where something is made seldom has anything to do with its quality. There's so much more to it than that.

Even when you're talking about truly bottom-tier quality T&E, it can certainly has its place especially for people starting out and learning. If it weren't for the likes of Hantek, FNIRSI, Owon, and Uni-T, likely millions of people wouldn't be introduced to electronics or have the means to learn and work at home, or start their small business.

/soapbox

[MarkT]

Don't listen to the snobs. Every profession and hobby has it's elitists who look down their nose at anything that isn't the very best, top-of-line stuff that THEY use.

Absolutely, old stuff is bulky, very heavy, uses loads of power, and there's no accuracy advantage unless regularly calibrated - especially as we are talking about a whole load of aging electrolytics typically - second hand purchases can save a lot of money, but some of the new stuff undercuts even secondhand prices and all the electrolytic caps are new...  Often modern equipment has a single PCB and runs cool.  There's no contest for instance with RF spectrum analyzers, modern prosumer one's have FFT and sweep mode and extremely narrow RBW, firmware updates, comes calibrated, large colour displays, and a waranty, and are very portable. Oh and quiet fans too...

But the size and weight argument is what wins it for me - old boat anchors just take up so much room and require stout benches/shelving to take the weight.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

You mean that I have gone too far with old equipment? Just because I have more than 1000 lbs of equipment in one room?   HA !! 

Seriously old equipment like the HP stuff is big and heavy. Then you need carts for it (more Expense) and lots of electrical plugs for your equipment.  You do need to make sure it is close to calibration, More expense. Down the Rabbit Hole.  But I use it all the time.

Consider having a space where you can put in more than twice the amount of electrical outlets you think will need.

Good Multimeter like a Fluke or Brymen, but one with fewer options. Then get a component analyzer like a BSIDE.  Very Very useful and cheap.  Various banana connectors with different alligator and hook connectors...edge power connectors for boards, consider making them yourself, you then have what you need. Use good components, especially good banana connectors and flexible Silicone wire.  Lots of reviews about multimeters elsewhere on this forum.

Definitely a linear PS, Triple is nice. Newer ones have USB power, very convenient.. None of the PS I have have very accurate meters. I use  a multimeter to check voltages when they are critical.

Read about soldering stations in "Other Equipment"  Lots of opinions.  A real consideration here is the availability and cost of tips. 
I don't have one but this seems good:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/1800/ 

Start with this stuff and make up your mind if you want a Scope or a Spectrum Analyzer next. If you are going to do any RF these days you will benefit from higher MHz equipment.   
When you get started, you will know better what you need and want.

About scope probes..  The ones I have bought from China are better than the original probes that came with my  Agilent Infinium.  They are much less expensive also. Just make sure they are the correct probes for your scope.  All probes come from China anyway.   

The better modern Hobby Grade stuff like Sigilent is better than anything any hobbyist could have hoped to buy even 20 yrs ago.

[bdunham7]

So what you are saying it implies that these Siglent tools break often and are inaccurate. Do they? Because based on my reading, it is quite recommended scope among hobbyists.

Siglent instruments do have their various issues (as do other brands) but despite those flaws still represent a good value for most people.  Of course if one of those flaws happens to be a critical issue with your particular use case, then the value proposition is much worse.  Rather than assigning "good" or "bad" labels, it is more productive to learn what those specific flaws or characteristics are so you can ignore them or deal with them as the case may be.

Not all older instruments are oversized boat anchors and some of them can be excellent tools for the money.  And if you do have space, even the monsters can provide some capabilities that would be prohibitively expensive otherwise.  However, the availability of these things may be much less in your area. 

[watchmaker]

Druantia,

I just went thru this (Still?).  The observation about supplies is on the button.  I wound up buying some prepackaged multicolor rolls of 20, 18 and and 14 AWG wire to make patch cords and leads.  Then there are the hook clips and safety banana connectors.  An ESD bench covering offers more than ESD protection.  It is very easy to sweep off and keep clean.

Given you are in Hungary, your access to used test equipment likely is more limited than for those of us in the US.  The scope you chose is the same I chose. Here in the US you can pick up a FLuke 8840AF or HP 3478A for under $100 and be pretty sure it will be dead on.  If you can find them there, I can recommend them.  More than enough precision.

Have you looked at the Diligent Analog Discovery 2 or 3??  These are used in many undergrad programs and provide a DMM, function generator, 2 power supplies and a lot more.  For about $350USD.  All you need is a laptop. 

As for learning materials, I am using the Real Analog You tube series plus various texts.  I have been very impressed with the Boylestad course on Introductory Circuit Analysis and the accompanying Lab Manual.  It could be that I came to this author after Real Analog and Dave's EEVBLOG videos on elementary electronics, but is helped to clear up some things.  Also, some of the approaches provide only simple exercises for ckt analysis and Boylestad takes it further.

I even found the Heatkit Education series to be of benefit. 

I am now going to look at Udemy.  Thanks!

Being without an instructor is not really a problem.  I breadboard the problems to check my answers.

The one that threw me was the need to relearn matrix math to solve the ckt equations.  I knew I was going to have to relearn differential calculus, but matrix-based approaches are powerful.  And the tools to use it (TI 89, Mathlab) are pretty easy to use.

To that end, you likely will want at least two DMMs so you can check voltage and current at the same time.  You could likely get by for some time with your current meter and the Analog Discovery since the courses use low voltage ckts with maybe 1000mA of current.  Precision to 3 decimal points is all you really need.

Task lighting and magnification are pretty important.  I found a 3x GLASS magnifier light on Amazon for about $75 USD.  I have several microscopes for watchmaking and machining, but this is all I need to read values and some soldering.

About soldering:  Look at the Pinecil soldering iron.  As a watchmaker I like toys.  I have an Ersa but I bought the Pinecil out of curiosity (about $50USD delivered).  It is powered by USB C PD which is a standard that provides up to 100 Watts.  You do need to buy a charger though, I cannot run it off my laptop.

But, it seems to provide enough power for my soldering (I still use Kester 64/36 with 2.2%rosin flux) and it works as well as my Ersa.  The sleep and wake features work very well.

What else.  Oh, those $20 component testers that tell you which end of the diode is up and whether you are looking at an inductor or resistor are handy.  But I would recommend you look at the ST 42 thread on this blog and get one of those.  Does everything the component tester does except tell you about transistor leads.

However, it is in the form of a tweezer and it sure beats using a DMM to verify the resistors you pick.

And people are right about space.  I originally thought I had enough, but I was told by someone here I was well short.  And he was right on the button.  I am still in a temporary setup until I settle on a configuration but I will eventually move my vertical mill and take over that space.

By the time you have your breadboard, test equipment, supplies, computer, books and calculator, you have easily taken up 3 to 4 square meters.

OH!  Plastic cabinets of drawers!

Hope this is useful.

[baldurn]

Don't buy SDG1062X because SDG1032X can trivially be upgraded by key generator and it is the same instrument.

Wait a few weeks for the 12 bit entry level Siglent to be released instead of buying SDS1204X-E now. We don't know the pricing yet, but why risk being sorry about your purchase?

You can probably get any multimeter and be fine. But if you are going for something good without being insanely expensive, I see the Brymen BM869S being recommended as the top pick for hobby.

Other instruments that you might want later on:

LCR meter (DER-EE DE-5000)
Component tester
Logic analyzer

[SuzyC]

Soil Moisture Detector:   Buy the cheapest ($5) volt-ohm meter (DMM) at a local hardware or electronics shop.
Take it home, turn in on  and set the dial to read resistance.(Set the ohms (resistance) scale to X1k range.)
Insert the probe tips into the soil some distance apart and take a reading. 

Low resistance:  Soil is quite wet.

Medium resistance: Soil is drying out.

High or open circuit resistance:   Soil is very dry.

Design Done!


Any other project ideas?

[themadhippy]

Soil Moisture Detector:   Buy the cheapest ($5) volt-ohm meter (DMM)

sounds a bit complex,wots wrong with sticking one of the ten measuring devices most of us have got on the end  of out hands into the mud

[SuzyC]

Gets your fingers dirty!

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Watchmaker brought up an important point, magnification. I don't know if these are available in your area
I use an Elmo Document Camera.  There are some used on ebay. Apparently they are used in schools and are replaced by newer models from time to time. New they are quite expensive, but used are quite affordable. I bought mine for $15 and then bought an old monitor. This is not perfect but gives a nice distance to the part and enables soldering. 
There are various configurations of these things that use different monitor connections ( Some HDMI ) and ones with a "stage" for the document (or PC board) and ones that are free standing. Take a look around ebay or other used equipment sites.

[druantia]

Task lighting and magnification are pretty important.

I thought about this one too - I saw these on aliexpress, I will buy something similar.

Have you looked at the Diligent Analog Discovery 2 or 3??

I've just read about this, I didn't know this was a thing. I assume it is more of an educational device - it seems really well made. Its software and the various visualizations could help a lot especially for beginners. I'm quite thinking about getting one. I mean, this device seems helpful even if I already have a decent scope.
Speaking of learning - I see this book often recommended, I might buy it The Art of Electronics

I'll take a look on the other sources too you mentioned. If you are interested, I started this course on udemy:
Crash Course Electronics and PCB Design

Don't buy SDG1062X because SDG1032X can trivially be upgraded by key generator and it is the same instrument.

I wonder, can I upgrade SPD3303X-E to SPD3303X in the same way? It not, what's you opinion about these two? PSU is something I need early on, but I don't know yet whether I need the extra resolution or not

Wait a few weeks for the 12 bit entry level Siglent to be released instead of buying SDS1204X-E now.

Great info!!  I'll definitely wait for the prices. Is there any release date yet?

I feel like my original plan already refined a lot. So thanks for all of this great advice, I'm still processing it. 

[Veteran68]

I wonder, can I upgrade SPD3303X-E to SPD3303X in the same way? It not, what's you opinion about these two? PSU is something I need early on, but I don't know yet whether I need the extra resolution or not

Yes, the 3303X-E can be upgraded to the 3303X, assuming it's not been fixed with a newer hw/fw revision (there have been reports of some new models of Siglent gear that don't work with the old "upgrade" methods). There is a thread on doing that.

[armandine2]

 If you are interested, I started this course on udemy:
Crash Course Electronics and PCB Design

That is of interest - hopefully you can report back on how that goes and how it met your needs.