Author Topic: Should I be worried about tip lifetime when buying my first soldering station?  (Read 6915 times)

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Offline ReiskaTopic starter

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I'm a pure hobbyist, though an electrical engineer by schooling and doing something totally different for work, and fed-up with the old hand-me-down mains powered soldering irons that I have and have decided to purchase a proper temp. controlled soldering station.

While looking at the options on the market in Europe it doesn't seem to be much of a price difference between a JBC CD-2BQE with the 245A handle or an Ersa i-Con 2V with their iTool handle. I'm drawn to the JBC station for it's sheer heat-up speed and the tooless tip change, but at the same time the Ersa seems promising for the capability to use the SMD Chip Tool (tweezers), two tools simultaneously (working with my son) as well as a standard soldering iron which to my understanding would require a significantly more expensive JBC model to pull off? (And yes I know that both these stations are overkill for my use, but life is too short to fudge with tools and I can afford my hobby gadgets, just trying to optimize pleasure and expenditure)

So I'm kind of leaning towards the Ersa as it seems 'more professional' and 'versatile', but then the JBC is being reviewed as the 'best professional' setup so I'm trying to make up my mind which one to purchase and substantiate the running costs of each station in a non-professional setup.

I've found many posts complaining that the JBC's cartridged have a short lifetime compared to the Ersa tips, but no-one substantiates what that means in practical lifetime.

The Ersa tips (7€ and up) are slightly cheaper than the JCB ones (25€ and up) but I'd like to understand will I ever even go through a single tip in the use I'm going to put this station to i.e. occational soldering of Arduino-type projects with my son? Maybe one day a month for a couple of hours at a time?

Should I even worry about this if I'm doing reasonable tip care i.e. whet the tip with solder after use, don't drench it in wet sponges, use distilled water in the sponge and occationally clean with flux?
 
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Online tszaboo

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No, you shouldn't. Running costs are a factor if your iron runs 8 hours a day, but then you invest probably more into it anyway. Also, it is probably better to go for a "starter" iron, and then buy the real deal in a few years anyway.
 

Offline Brumby

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My first response is not to worry about tip lifetime.  Tip performance is by far the more important consideration.
 

Offline Shock

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I'm drawn to the JBC station for it's sheer heat-up speed and the tooless tip change

If you like robust check out the Pace ADS200 which is 120W all metal construction including the aluminum iron/handpiece (aluminum tweezers are on their way as well). The main differences over the Ersa is it has the much easier cartridge tip swapping (as good as, if not better than JBC) and the station is calibration free so you can insert the 8mm tip and it doesn't skip a beat.

Other stations work around the geometry limitation by using a small iron, cartridge tip or extra padding on the iron, but since Pace uses an aluminum barrel body it acts like a giant heatsink keeping the iron cool to touch, size is never an issue. The working distance of the tip and grip position is shorter than the JBC, Ersa, and heat up speed comparable to JBC. The ADS200 has no overshoot however and single digit degree accuracy.

Pace plate their cartridge tips for long life and are cheaper than the competition. Though the ADS200 is a single channel station I expect they will eventually expand this new Accudrive series into 2 and 3 channel stations like the previous series. Pace makes great tweezers and desoldering stations, the Accudrive handpieces should be interchangeable on future stations.

If you decide to get the ADS200 shop around for the best price and pickup the instant setback model if you want stand detection. Otherwise it has everything else you need all ESD safe (even the cable) uses a transformer, has an easy to see and use interface, sleep and standby modes.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 09:33:36 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Domagoj T

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If you use a reasonable temperature, and you don't use that stupid water sponge, plus you actually put the iron back to its auto-sleep cradle every time after use, they will last.

What do you use for cleaning the tip?
I use the stupid wet sponge and get years out of the original Weller tips. I have the temp set at around 300°C for 90% of the work I do.
The iron doesn't have the autosleep (it's Weller PU 81 base with WSP 80 iron).

I don't consider the cost of tips to be relevant at all, provided you buy quality tips and not just a piece of copper wire, that will melt away in literary couple of hours, as was the case when I had no access to a proper iron and had to make do with a $6 supermarket abomination.
 

Offline Shock

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What do you use for cleaning the tip?
I use the stupid wet sponge and get years out of the original Weller tips. I have the temp set at around 300°C for 90% of the work I do.
The iron doesn't have the autosleep (it's Weller PU 81 base with WSP 80 iron).

I don't consider the cost of tips to be relevant at all, provided you buy quality tips and not just a piece of copper wire, that will melt away in literary couple of hours, as was the case when I had no access to a proper iron and had to make do with a $6 supermarket abomination.

Not all tips are the same, I've trashed tips in days using the sponge (not a big name brand though). On "old Weller" you were probably fine but people have had problems with some of the newer low end stations (yours is probably not one of them) likely due to less plating and therefore less sponge resilient. JBC apparently has the same issue with some of their tip series, it's come up many times over the years.

It's hard to make comparisons anyway without knowing how thick the plating they use is. Pace balance theirs for lead free and corrosive fluxes, so thicker plating and subsequently longer life. Since they primarily market to military and manufacturing low cost of ownership is a selling point for them.

I use brass wool almost exclusively now. If you wipe across the brass wool (which I've seen Weller say not to do) it removes crap and any flux build up. Brass wool is recommended for lead free by manufacturers anyway.

On sponges I think most people clean, then resume soldering without reapplying fresh solder. That is when the oxidization monster starts rubbing his hands as he creeps down the tip. >:D
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:31:42 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline ReiskaTopic starter

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Thanks for the suggestion - Pace does not seem to have much of a presence here in Finland (one reseller only that I could find) so not much to shop about and pricewise slightly lower than Ersa/JBC prices @ ~300€ for the model you recommended. I'll have to look it up in more detail.
 

Offline tooki

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Thanks for the suggestion - Pace does not seem to have much of a presence here in Finland (one reseller only that I could find) so not much to shop about and pricewise slightly lower than Ersa/JBC prices @ ~300€ for the model you recommended. I'll have to look it up in more detail.
The primary dealer for Europe is Farnell: https://fi.farnell.com/w/search/prl/results/2?st=ads200

Indeed their presence in Europe is small, though I think this is not just in Europe. Even in its home turf of USA, Pace has historically been a super high-end manufacturer which supplied primarily the defense and aerospace industries. It's only recently that they've decided to go after some of the rest of the market.

Anyhow, for the cost of an i-CON 2V with two irons, you could buy almost three ADS200 stations.

For what it's worth, I have the Ersa i-Con nano and it's great. But if I were going to buy something today, I'd probably go for the ADS200. The Ersa has great performance (but the ADS200 should be better still), and its tips are cheap and long-lasting, but if you want to be able to swap tips with anything less than, um, lots of annoyance, you'll need to also buy a tip holder (collet) for each tip, which adds another 5 euros to the cost of a tip.

The only downside to the ADS200 as of right now (other than its comparatively simplistic display) is that the tweezers and other accessory handles aren't available yet, though they've been promised.
 
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Offline james_s

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I bought my Edsyn soldering station almost 20 years ago and the tip that came on it was already used and lasted me around 10 years. I'm now on my second tip and it shows no signs of deterioration so as long as it's a quality unit and properly taken care of I would not worry about tip life.
 

Offline Shock

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Thanks for the suggestion - Pace does not seem to have much of a presence here in Finland (one reseller only that I could find) so not much to shop about and pricewise slightly lower than Ersa/JBC prices @ ~300€ for the model you recommended. I'll have to look it up in more detail.

Pace is a US manufactured brand that's been around since the 1960s and fairly widely known in the industry. You should be able to order from Farnell/Element14 or Prodi, not sure if there are better deals in nearby countries. Check out the prices of Paces 1130 and 1131 series tips. Only slightly more expensive than Ersas plain hollow tips and as Tooki mentioned it ends up being cheaper in the long run.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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The working distance of the tip and grip position is shorter than the JBC, Ersa, and heat up speed comparable to JBC. The ADS200 has no overshoot however and single digit degree accuracy.
The working distance on the Ersa is only 4mm longer than on the ADS200. I'd say they're both superb in this regard. (I don't know what it is on JBC.)

As for overshoot, the Ersa lets you set the "aggressiveness" of the heating, so you can choose fast with overshoot, slow with no overshoot, or medium with a little bit of overshoot. (I think older Pace models had a similar setting, but the ADS200 does not. Probably doesn't need it!)
 
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Offline Shock

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The working distance of the tip and grip position is shorter than the JBC, Ersa, and heat up speed comparable to JBC. The ADS200 has no overshoot however and single digit degree accuracy.
The working distance on the Ersa is only 4mm longer than on the ADS200. I'd say they're both superb in this regard. (I don't know what it is on JBC.)

4mm? You can fly to the moon and back with 4mm :). But you have to admit the Pace iron has a much superior "front end". I'm not sure about the usable grip position on the Ersa, but you can get right down in the money on the Pace iron and it feels great.

The other end of the Pace iron is the weirder part but when you understand how the strain relief works the design (which had not really changed from the previous series) becomes a little clearer. It's got to be one of the easiest soldering irons in the world to change a cable on, one screw and done. I pulled mine apart and had a good look at how the cartridge contacts worked. Even if you have a wire break it's trivial to shorten the cable and get it back running.

Quote
As for overshoot, the Ersa lets you set the "aggressiveness" of the heating, so you can choose fast with overshoot, slow with no overshoot, or medium with a little bit of overshoot. (I think older Pace models had a similar setting, but the ADS200 does not. Probably doesn't need it!)

Good point, I can't see any reason but if you weren't aware of profiles and overshoot you could easily believe ones superior over the other without any quantifiers. I'm sure the ADS200 profile religiously examines those last few degrees before it goes to idle temp. :)

Hey check this out. This was Daves original station line up. Check which sponge is the dirtiest. I think his tally now is Pace 2 Hakko 2 JBC 1 Chinesium 2.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline tooki

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4mm? You can fly to the moon and back with 4mm :). But you have to admit the Pace iron has a much superior "front end". I'm not sure about the usable grip position on the Ersa, but you can get right down in the money on the Pace iron and it feels great.
I remeasured using calipers this time instead of a ruler, it's actually 50.6mm on the Ersa i-Tool, so just 2.6mm longer. Here's what it looks like, to scale, with calculated sizes (using official images from Ersa and Pace):



So I'm not sure if you're being facetious about the "superior front end" or serious about it, but to be clear, the Ersa iron is very svelte and comfortable. I just wish it had a rubber grip and even softer cable.

The other end of the Pace iron is the weirder part but when you understand how the strain relief works the design (which had not really changed from the previous series) becomes a little clearer. It's got to be one of the easiest soldering irons in the world to change a cable on, one screw and done. I pulled mine apart and had a good look at how the cartridge contacts worked. Even if you have a wire break it's trivial to shorten the cable and get it back running.
No doubt it looks solid. I think the Ersa handle is clipped, I have no idea whether it's possible to open it non-destructively. :/
 
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Offline David Hess

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In my experience good iron plated tips last years unless mistreated.

There are some good habits though.  Wipe the tip *before* soldering a joint (1) and leave excess solder on the tip when holstering the iron or shutting it off; the solder on the tip will protect the surface from oxidation.

What you might do before buying an iron is to check the pricing and availability of spare tips.

(1) A damp sponge works fine but it needs to be a cellulose and not synthetic sponge so that it does not melt.
 

Online stj

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in theory if you use a wet sponge then every time you wipe the tip you deposit a microscopic layer of minerals and possibly flouride on the tip.
flouride is severly corrosive - it's one of the few things that will eat concrete!!

use brass wool. :-+
 

Offline David Hess

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in theory if you use a wet sponge then every time you wipe the tip you deposit a microscopic layer of minerals and possibly flouride on the tip.
flouride is severly corrosive - it's one of the few things that will eat concrete!!

use brass wool. :-+

I have never noticed a problem using tap water over more than a decade but later to make the sponges last longer, I switched to distilled, deionized, or reverse osmosis water.
 

Offline Shock

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I remeasured using calipers this time instead of a ruler, it's actually 50.6mm on the Ersa i-Tool, so just 2.6mm longer.

So I'm not sure if you're being facetious about the "superior front end" or serious about it, but to be clear, the Ersa iron is very svelte and comfortable. I just wish it had a rubber grip and even softer cable.

I didn't realize the i-Tool was micro pencil size, I thought it was little larger as it has a PCB. For me personally though even if the i-Tool had cartridges and could hot swap easier I'd still stay away because I'm not a fan of embedded electronics in tools, the Chinesium TS-100 makes me gag a little actually.

I was being a little facetious though, I meant by "superior front end" the part where you grip on the Pace TD-200 iron is just aluminum and the tip. Actually the whole iron is really just a piece of aluminum but that's why I like it.

Nice comparison image you did, it makes the Pace TD-200 look huge heheh. Would be interesting to see those two with the JBC T245 and the Hakko FM2027/2028 in that line up as well with their tips in. Then you could do break downs below that or on another image.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline CJay

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in theory if you use a wet sponge then every time you wipe the tip you deposit a microscopic layer of minerals and possibly flouride on the tip.
flouride is severly corrosive - it's one of the few things that will eat concrete!!

use brass wool. :-+

In high concentrations fluoride is corrosive, if it were corrosive enough to be a problem in water then you'd notice it, your teeth would fiz every time you had a glass of water, as for minerals being deposited, nah, not an issue.

I believe the main problem with a wet sponge is thermal shock and steam damaging the plating, not an issue I've ever come across but I'm happy to accept it could be a problem on very fine tip irons and/or low quality tips
 

Offline Shock

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In high concentrations fluoride is corrosive, if it were corrosive enough to be a problem in water then you'd notice it, your teeth would fiz every time you had a glass of water, as for minerals being deposited, nah, not an issue.

I believe the main problem with a wet sponge is thermal shock and steam damaging the plating, not an issue I've ever come across but I'm happy to accept it could be a problem on very fine tip irons and/or low quality tips

Tap water will definitely be a factor, micro deposits of minerals/chemicals left after evaporation. If you are immediately dislodging any by adding a fresh layer of fluxed solder it's going to reduce. Visually however you would assume that it makes no difference at all.

Purified water has the opposite effect it actually removes more contaminants than it leaves. That is why purified water is still used in electronics cleaning, we know for sure tap water is corrosive. How corrosive depends where you live.

I think it's more a case of what is known already, the sponge material, too much water and thermal shock, type of water, plating quality, solder/flux used and overall cleaning technique and frequency. This would make a good thesis for someone who uses sponges. ;D

Anyway not so much an issue or cost when you have just a mains banger but when you have dozens of tips you don't want to wreck the lot.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline OwO

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Are there unplated tips? I have been using a cheap temperature controlled iron and the tip it came with for 5 years. I've grinded one side of the tip to add a "flat" face, and the newly exposed face adheres to solder just as well, so I think this tip has no plating at all.
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Offline Psi

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Should I be worried about tip lifetime when buying my first soldering station?

Nope, you should worry about tip lifetime when buying tips.

If the iron comes with a tip that works well then great.
If not then buy a known good tip.

But stay away from 900M style tips.
There's no need to buy anything that uses them any more. They are old technology.
Get the newer Element-within-Tip technology.
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Offline Psi

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Are there unplated tips? I have been using a cheap temperature controlled iron and the tip it came with for 5 years. I've grinded one side of the tip to add a "flat" face, and the newly exposed face adheres to solder just as well, so I think this tip has no plating at all.

Very old irons had unplated tips but no one uses them any more afaik.

A newly grinded face will adhere solder good but it will oxidase and char up very quickly.
You will find you have to keep re-grinding it every time you use it.

Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline Shock

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Are there unplated tips? I have been using a cheap temperature controlled iron and the tip it came with for 5 years. I've grinded one side of the tip to add a "flat" face, and the newly exposed face adheres to solder just as well, so I think this tip has no plating at all.

Yeah you can use plain copper tips if you like. Two issues that may or may not be a factor is there is no nickel or chrome to prevent solder creeping up the tip and the copper tip may wear out faster than an iron plated tip. There has been irons in the past that just have a chunk of copper rod screwed in, not exactly going to be used for SMD work but enough to solder some though hole components and wires together.

If the tip still solders well I'd keep on using it.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online stj

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pure copper tips are still made for *very* fine work, but regular fluxes will absolutely destroy them in days!
 

Offline OwO

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Well it's been a year since I've grinded the tip and I've not noticed any oxidization issues yet. You can get it to oxidize by cleaning the tip (with wet paper) and letting it sit for a few minutes. When that happens you can clear the oxidization by turning temperature up to 350C, applying a drop of solder (with flux), and waiting about a minute. After that it sticks to solder like a new tip.
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