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Author Topic: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080  (Read 18946 times)

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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2023, 05:41:35 pm »
Any feedback on this possible replacement?
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2023, 06:15:19 pm »
In theory, it should work. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure, is to purchase one and try it out.

BTW; Solid State Inc still makes the 2N4991
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 06:17:02 pm by schmitt trigger »
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2023, 06:22:21 pm »
So you think the simulation is not of value?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2023, 04:03:48 pm »
Just for fun, I sketched the discrete circuit in KiCAD and added manufacturer Spice models.
Simulates beautifully and functions exactly as expected.
 
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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2023, 08:15:50 pm »
This is the 3rd time I have posted this

My simulation:

https://tinyurl.com/2gxxbjco

From this schematic drawn in KiCad:


« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 08:19:35 pm by pulsed_power »
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2023, 08:27:18 pm »
What components did you select in your model?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2023, 08:53:44 pm »
BC847, BC857, 1N4148W, BZX84C7V5. Models from Nexperia and Vishay.
R1: 1k...10k, in this case 3k.
R2, R3: 10k...100k, in this case 100k.
R11: 1k, but it's just for current limiting in the sim. Ignore it.

Schematics and simulaton:

 
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Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2023, 08:58:19 pm »
This is the 3rd time I have posted this
I know. But that's not a simulation, it's a graphical toy.
 
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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2023, 09:02:36 pm »
Very interesting, I had no idea.
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2023, 09:12:29 pm »
What about the G connection?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2023, 09:15:59 pm »
What about the G connection?
I ignored that for the sim. Add it to the schematic if you like. Its function in the full circuit is nebulous to say the least. Normally it's used to reduce the trigger voltage, but in this case... IDK.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 10:41:10 pm by Benta »
 
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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2023, 10:04:31 pm »
G = Gate Trigger Circuit?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2023, 10:39:13 pm »
G = Gate Trigger Circuit?
I doubt it. The "GROUND" reference in the original Yamaha data sheet is probably correct, letting you disable the trigger by short-circuiting the Zener/bridge.
But one thing is certain: it does not have the functionality of the 2N4991/MBS4991 gate input.
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2023, 01:07:16 pm »
Possible additional information
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2023, 01:08:43 pm »
Possible additional information written text
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2023, 07:09:19 pm »
I'll step out here.
The original question whether a discrete solution can be used to replace the IG04080 has been answered with: Yes. (because the Yamaha part already is a discrete solution).
Can it be replaced with a 2N4991/MBS4991? IMO: No. (the "G" pin functionality is completely different).

The schematic/simulation I've provided does exactly what the Yamaha data sheet describes. You can build a small proto-board if you like to test it live.
It's now system-wide troubleshooting, which is not my thing..

I attach the KiCAD design files (V6.0) plus the Spice models if you'd like to play with them yourself.

Cheers.

EDIT: cosmetic correction to the schematic (Zener diode pinout+model, no functional change), .zip file replaced. Please use this version.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 10:06:30 pm by Benta »
 
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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2023, 08:24:48 pm »
I'll step out here.
There original question whether a discrete solution can be used to replace the IG04080 has been answered with: Yes. (because the Yamaha part already is a discrete solution).
Can it be replaced with a 2N4991/MBS4991? IMO: No. (the "G" pin functionality is completely different).

The schematic/simulation I've provided does exactly what the Yamaha data sheet describes. You can build a small proto-board if you like to test it live.
It's now system-wide troubleshooting, which is not my thing..

I attach the KiCAD design files (V6.0) plus the Spice models if you'd like to play with them yourself.

Cheers.

Thank you very much for all the effort you have put forward, I will always be grateful.
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2023, 12:29:27 pm »
Possible additional information written text
While I am awaiting parts from DigiKey, I wanted to go back and readdress this alternate IG04080 design. Seeking feedback
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2023, 12:45:11 am »
What is the function of R625, C605 & C606 in this circuit?
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2023, 03:27:09 am »
Possible additional information

Please take a look at this functional description
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2023, 05:37:07 pm »
Good news - No smoke and burn
Bad news - zero response 0vac
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2023, 06:26:39 pm »
Use a perf board instead. What you're doing there is fine for small-signal electronics, but has no place in a power supply with mains voltage.
 
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Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2023, 04:03:28 pm »
I have built the breadboard and the circuit passes the needed out of circuit test. It doesn't work when placed into the circuit. Zero response.
 

Offline pulsed_powerTopic starter

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2023, 04:24:45 pm »
Attempt to run in circuit
 

Offline Kim Christensen

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Re: Silicon Bilateral Switch IG04080
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2023, 04:41:38 pm »
Doesn't this point to problems elsewhere in the power supply? Because you tested the IG04080 at the beginning of this thread and it was OK, so building another out of discrete components doesn't really help.
ie: You've replaced a good part with another good part. (Assuming you didn't make a mistake doing so) Therefore the fault is elsewhere.
 


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