Solder station recommendations for someone who thinks the FX-888D sucks.

[peps1]

Hi, looking for a new solder station, looking for something in the FX-888D price range, but actually worth that money.

[ledtester]

Forum user SteveyG has done a lot of soldering station reviews which you can find here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/the-sdg-electronics-soldering-station-comparisonshootout-thread/

and on his youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZzwMlLVLdOBBz8pwjt9CJhEJFYVfHSH2

Some of these reviewed stations have their own discussion threads here too.

[ataradov]

Just as a general recommendation - only look at stuff with cartridge tips. This alone provides a huge improvement over Hakko.

[slavoy]

In this price range, it is optimal to look for a soldering station compatible with T12 tips. There are many options available on the market, including the original Hakko (FX-951), which was the one that invented these tips. Most of them are cheap Chinese products, so the build quality may vary. However, the soldering performance itself is typically very similar among them. I recommend looking for a soldering station with a sturdy base, sleep mode, and, if possible, a construction that incorporates a substantial amount of metal.
Depending on whether you prefer a separate soldering iron holder or an integrated station, some brands to consider are AiXun, OSS Team, Aifen, i2C and Sugon.

[JustMeHere]

Use bigger tips and more heat.  Don't blame the iron.  70 watts and 480 C is plenty of iron.

[BrokenYugo]

Use bigger tips and more heat.  Don't blame the iron.  70 watts and 480 C is plenty of iron.

And flux.

But yeah, if you think a genuine 888D outright  "sucks" with no explanation that's probably more a matter of technique than the iron.

[slavoy]

Japanese 70W doesn't help much with this design where the tip is separated from the heating element with a temperature sensor. I have seen soldering irons of this type with a power of 100W, and they behaved practically the same way. It's an outdated design. It doesn't provide continuous power when soldering large components in succession.

[peps1]

But yeah, if you think a genuine 888D outright  "sucks" with no explanation that's probably more a matter of technique than the iron.

It has nothing to do with technique and I didn't think an explanation on why the 888D sucks was needed as it is so well documented, but here are a few issues, value for money,  80's alarm clock interface, lack of firmware, a pain for running multiple tips, notoriously bad calibration, only 70W, They sold so many as it has Hakko printed on it, not due to it being a best in class iron.

I don't think anyone in 2023 can say with a straight face that the Hakko FX-888D at £185 is a good value proposition. 

[LinuxHata]

I also don't like my FX888D, so I bought some chinese alternatives, which were using same tips, like CXG or Yuhua. Same sluggish performance.
Then friend suggested me T12. I tried several ones and finally found an excellent choice.

So I suggest you to look into T12 direction.

P.S.  I've spent about $500 for all that, until I found the one I needed
That would buy me something cool indeed

[Doctorandus_P]

You can get a weller WR2000D
That one sucks real hard.

[floobydust]

When my FX-888 was working extra poorly, I found it had 936 tips in it. They look the same.
The air gap to the heating element is bigger so you get much worse power output to the tip.
FX-888 tips are a tighter fit. Still an airgap there which I think makes it not a great soldering iron when you need a lot of heat.

[audiotubes]

But yeah, if you think a genuine 888D outright  "sucks" with no explanation that's probably more a matter of technique than the iron.

It has nothing to do with technique and I didn't think an explanation on why the 888D sucks was needed as it is so well documented, but here are a few issues, value for money,  80's alarm clock interface, lack of firmware, a pain for running multiple tips, notoriously bad calibration, only 70W, They sold so many as it has Hakko printed on it, not due to it being a best in class iron.

I don't think anyone in 2023 can say with a straight face that the Hakko FX-888D at £185 is a good value proposition.

I bought mine for 100 euros on sale from an authorized shop. I agree at  £185 it is not a good value proposition. But at the price, given the availability of parts etc. it's good enough.

Not everything needs upgradeable firmware. Sometimes a soldering station is just a soldering station.

[xavier60]

I do a lot of soldering(60/40 leaded) assembling boards, all 2oz copper. The FX888D with T18-S4 tip easily handles anything from soldering individual SOIC pins, 0805 and TO252 parts, also THT. The T18-S4 receives criticism for being conical from those who have not tried it.
This post shows an example of the size joints it's capable of.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/smd-soldering-feedback/msg4904690/#msg4904690

[coppice]

I don't think anyone in 2023 can say with a straight face that the Hakko FX-888D at £185 is a good value proposition.

They are 149.99 right now at amazon.co.uk. This is UK pricing, though. They are a lot less in Asia.

[peps1]

Not everything needs upgradeable firmware. Sometimes a soldering station is just a soldering station.

True, and sometimes a soldering station is just a soldering station....but money is always money! 

I do a lot of soldering(60/40 leaded) assembling boards, all 2oz copper. The FX888D with T18-S4 tip easily handles anything from soldering individual SOIC pins, 0805 and TO252 parts, also THT. The T18-S4 receives criticism for being conical from those who have not tried it.
This post shows an example of the size joints it's capable of.

Oh, I'm talking from experience here, sure I'm just a hobbyist and have only started making money for electronics in the last few years but have been running a T18-S4 tip all that time until I saw the chisel light.

Totally get much of this is subjective, I just stand by my view that there are objectively far better options out there for the price point. For me.

Have an Aixun T3A Soldering Station on the way and hopefully, that will fit me better than the FX888D.

[xavier60]

Those JBC cartridge tips are impressive.
What sorts of soldering are you doing?

 

[bdunham7]

Oh, I'm talking from experience here, sure I'm just a hobbyist and have only started making money for electronics in the last few years but have been running a T18-S4 tip all that time until I saw the chisel light.

I'm in the same boat, although I wouldn't say the FX-888 sucks.  It's reliable, the tips are great and everything lasts a long time.  I use the bevelled-cone tips, like T18-S6/7 and I like them a lot better than anything else I tried.  However, it is a bit slower, it struggles with any type of large joint and I'm sure it can be improved upon.  It is a high quality unit with mediocre performance, but I can do very nice work with it.  I would say it is the least that I would find acceptable for someone not concerned about speed.  And I have the older non-D version so I wasn't subjected to whatever silliness that entails.  I paid less than $100 for mine and they are currently $115 here in the US, at twice that price I'd have to agree that they aren't worth the money.

I'm also looking for an upgrade.  I was going to grab a Pace ADS200 on sale, but TEquipment couldn't manage to close the deal so I had time to start looking at alternatives and I'm thinking of going the KSGER (or AiXun maybe) route just because they have a really nice variety of T12 tips at low cost.  I'm not sure I actually need more power than a T12.  Which version /handle did you get?  Does anyone know if the KSGER handles will work with the AiXun T3A unit?

[peps1]

Those JBC cartridge tips are impressive.
What sorts of soldering are you doing?

 

Mainly TH and chunky legs at that, it's vintage audio stuff 90% of the time). But, also plan to get to grips with SMD this year, as now I could put a bit of money back into the workbench so just grabbed a hotplate and an electronic microscope (as my near vision has decided to leave me!).

[wizard69]

Well not the same price range but Weller offers some good soldering stations.    The WE1010 is not that bad but all of the low end stations have their short comings.

[BlackICE]

Well not the same price range but Weller offers some good soldering stations.    The WE1010 is not that bad but all of the low end stations have their short comings.

I would say they are about equivalent in performance other than the UI and color scheme. I like my Ksger t12 better than my WE1010.

[floobydust]

Why is that?
copper is like gold in china so they skimp on the tip construction using loads of steel. The end result is these T12 clones are shit compared to a Weller for medium and larger work.
SMT doesn't need a lot of (iron) heat so the KSGER T12 I have does okay there, but they don't have a decent stand and the wand is primitive, just silicone tubing for a grip lol. So I dislike the clone ergonomics. The WE1010 is really for bigger stuff.

Thought I would buy a real JBC and found they have an extra layer of markup on the price, you have to buy through old school retailers. So the price was way too high, so high that Metcal or others are contenders. Even a JBC handle or tip was costly and you can't buy anything from an electronics disti like Mouser, Digi-Key etc. and have to deal with old fart co.

[BlackICE]

I don't have any issue with this because I only use genuine Hakko tips.

[liaifat85]

Here is a comparison between Hakko and Weller. This may help you take a good decision: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1063-weller-we1010-vs-hakko-fx888d-soldering-station/

[Marco]

Japanese 70W doesn't help much with this design where the tip is separated from the heating element with a temperature sensor. I have seen soldering irons of this type with a power of 100W, and they behaved practically the same way. It's an outdated design. It doesn't provide continuous power when soldering large components in succession.

It's crazy how little recognition the temperature controlled induction stations still get here after over a decade (ie. Quick, the slav soldering station of choice).

PS. Metcal gets a mention often enough of course, but that's a bit pricey.

[xavier60]

This is almost interesting. These comparison charts are from the Hakko website.
Comparing the FX951 to the FX888D across the two charts, there isn't a big difference.
 

[Solder_Junkie]

As a former commercial user of the Weller TCP soldering irons, and a home user of Antex XS and M12 irons, and now a home user of a Weller WE1010, I would say the only difference is in the amount of metal in the tip used.

A long thin tip in the Weller, regardless of how many Watts are available, won't solder a large area of copper. Equally a large chisel Weller tip, such as the 4ETE-1 (5.6 x 1.2mm), will transfer a lot of heat quickly.

The humble and low cost Antex XS with a large bit, such as their 52 bit (4.7mm) has a lot of metal behind the tip of the bit and despite being only a 25 Watt iron, it will "out solder" a much higher Wattage soldering station on larger pads or components.

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

For delicate soldering, such as 0603 size SMD parts, the little Antex M12 with a fine pointed bit (0.12mm or 0.5mm) works really well without the cost of a soldering station.

Just my 2p worth... Horses for courses as we say.

SJ

[peps1]

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

surface area is your friend when it comes to heat transfer.

Really good video with a thermal camera here:

https://youtu.be/l0csCh3A8OM

[xavier60]

A BTW for anyone deciding to try the T18-S4. Its performance initially tends to improve as it wears, due to the thinning of the iron cladding I'm assuming. The point tends to wear into a mushroom shape so needs to be occasionally honed back into shape.
When the iron cladding eventually wears through at the point and exposing the copper core, the copper is then quickly eroded by the molten solder.
A hollow tip doesn't work very well.

Oritech now list it, https://www.oritech.com.au/Soldering-and-Rework-Equipment/Soldering-Tips/Hakko-T18-Range/pl.php

[wraper]

There is a myth that you need to turn up the temperature of a soldering station when working on larger components/pads... It works a lot better to use a larger bit.

surface area is your friend when it comes to heat transfer.

Really good video with a thermal camera here:

https://youtu.be/l0csCh3A8OM

Also tip cross section and length, you cannot expect something with like 0.3mm² cross section a lot of which consists of external iron layer transferring a lot of heat from the heater. And higher length only makes it worse.

[EPAIII]

There is only one soldering station that I recommend without reservation: the Weller WTCPT. I have had one for over 50 years (model WTCP back then) and it is still going strong - with the original tips.

https://www.amazon.com/WTCPT-Temperature-Controlled-Soldering-Station/dp/B00004W463/ref=sr_1_6?crid=17YLDFU5N9ZC1&keywords=weller+wtcpt+soldering+station&qid=1688800070&sprefix=Weller+WTCP+soldering+station%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-6

It may cost somewhat more than the Hakko, but it is totally dependable. And the temperature control is in the tip you select so there's nothing digital that can go bad.

[Veteran68]

As I recall the 888D was my first "real" soldering station, and upgrade from the old temp controlled Radio Shack station I'd had since the 80's or early 90's (and still have). I bought it because of its reviews and popularity at the time, paying around $100 for it if memory serves. I thought it was terrible. I have several genuine Hakko tips for it, and tolerated it for awhile as I wasn't soldering that often, but eventually got fed up. I figured buy once, cry once, so I sprung for a Pace ADS200 with ISB stand and several tips. Around $400 which stung but the difference was night and day. It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

[donlisms]

the 888D was my first "real" soldering iron .... I thought it was terrible. ... I sprung for a Pace ADS200 ... It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

I appreciate your feedback. Could you talk about the what and the why of the Hakko being so bad and the Pace so good?  And an interesting notion... whether tip geometry was quite similar or different, in light of recent posts?  Thanks!  I would truly appreciate that. 

[Veteran68]

the 888D was my first "real" soldering iron .... I thought it was terrible. ... I sprung for a Pace ADS200 ... It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

I appreciate your feedback. Could you talk about the what and the why of the Hakko being so bad and the Pace so good?  And an interesting notion... whether tip geometry was quite similar or different, in light of recent posts?  Thanks!  I would truly appreciate that.

Sure, as with anything much is subjective user-preference.

Hakko 888D:

- Poor UI
- Poor/inconsistent heat control, due to antiquated and inefficient tip design (no heating cartridge)
- Large, clumsy handle (though similar to most cheap pencils)

Pace ADS200:

- Fast!
- Great temp control
- Small and light ergonomic handle with short working distance between hand and tip (some consider this a con, thinking it's TOO delicate, but I think it's perfect)
- IBS stand upgrade (extra cost) is great for managing tip life by sleeping when in the stand

As to tip geometries, I have an assortment of similar tip styles for both. Not sure exactly what you're asking, but the 888D was inferior with every tip style I used compared to the ADS200. My most used tip styles are small chisels, bent conical, and the Miniwave (similar to T12 BC(F)2 tips) depending on what I'm working on. I also have knife and straight conical tips for both, but seldom use those.

Checking prices now, it looks like the ADS200 kit I have has increased about $100 in price since I bought mine 2-3 years ago. I'm not suggesting every hobbyist go out and buy a $450 prosumer grade soldering station, or that the ADS200 is so much better than anything else at its price point. It just works well for me. If you have the disposable income and like higher-end gear, then I highly recommend it, but it's not necessary for a good hobbyist experience. Before I bought the Pace I was seriously considering just getting a Hakko 951 T12 clone, a KSGR T12 station, and/or one of the USB pencils like the T80 or T100 (which I'll still do for portability purposes, but haven't yet). I would recommend any of those over the 888D, to be perfectly honest.

The newer JBC clones on the market now are also quite compelling, I'd also consider one of those. I will say the ADS200 tips are about half the cost (comparing genuine Pace to genuine JBC).

[coppice]

As I recall the 888D was my first "real" soldering station, and upgrade from the old temp controlled Radio Shack station I'd had since the 80's or early 90's (and still have). I bought it because of its reviews and popularity at the time, paying around $100 for it if memory serves. I thought it was terrible. I have several genuine Hakko tips for it, and tolerated it for awhile as I wasn't soldering that often, but eventually got fed up. I figured buy once, cry once, so I sprung for a Pace ADS200 with ISB stand and several tips. Around $400 which stung but the difference was night and day. It's actually a pleasure to solder with.

The 888/888D was a terrific tool. Reasonable price. Lasted for years, including the cable. Tips hardly ever needed replacement. Soldered really well. Then they took the lead out of solder......

[xavier60]

So far, I have not been able to find any excuse to upgrade from the FX888D to FX971. Maybe it is the solder.

[BlackICE]

So far, I have not been able to find any excuse to upgrade from the FX888D to FX971. Maybe it is the solder.

Faster heat up time, making sleeping work better.
Better heat recovery.
Easier to change tips.
Better tip to hand distance.
More watts if you need it.

Downside costs more.

I use a Ksger T12 clone works better and cost less than a 888, worst than a 971 and even 951.

[Andrew LB]

I've owned a Hakko 936, FX-888D, KSGER T12, and a year and a half ago i bought a AIXUN T3 with C249 JBC handle and it's absolutely amazing. I lift the handle from the cradle and it's at soldering temp in 3 seconds flat, faster than i can move it to what i'm working on. Once it's on the cradle, it shuts off the heater and drops down to the set standby temperature. It has no problems putting down enough heat on large ground planes or putting enough heat through a fine tip when required. Mine came with 3 tips and while they're JBC knock-offs, they've worked great all this time. I did purchase my first authentic JBC tip a few weeks ago and even though they're expensive, the quality is there for sure.

I use mine mostly for repairing home and car amplifiers, re-soldering, and some surface mount stuff. Right now i'm touching up and replacing the mosfets and caps on an old SoundStream Reference 1000sx amplifier from the late 90s. The mosfets on the left, flanking the capacitor bank are what blew up.

[xavier60]

I got some SN100C Lead Free solder to try with the FX888D and T18-S4 tip. I need to stay with a fine tip for the small SMD parts, mainly the SOIC pins.
Some of the joints were difficult to do because I couldn't get the tip to make good enough side contact.
I figured that a bent tip would fix the problem, so I ordered some T18-BR02 tips.
In the meantime, I have tried a T18-S4 which I bent myself. It works well at 350C.
I have attached a picture of a board that I assembled using the SN100C and bent T18-S4 for all hand soldered joints.

[Veteran68]

I got some SN100C Lead Free solder to try with the FX888D and T18-S4 tip.
...
I have attached a picture of a board that I assembled using the SN100C and bent T18-S4 for all hand soldered joints.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting you can't solder with the 888D. If that's all I had (and for awhile it was the best I had), I could certainly get by with it for most tasks. Certainly the task you demonstrated. Being able to melt solder is only one aspect of a soldering iron, albeit an important one, but performance, ergonomics, flexibility, and extra features are also factors to consider.

Just like if all I had to drive was a 1978 Ford Pinto, it would still get me from point A to point B (as long as someone didn't rear end me and blow me up). But if you give me a choice between that 1978 Pinto and a 2024 Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Cadillac (insert favorite mainstream luxury brand here), I'm going to pick the nicer option every time. And might dare say the Pinto sucks by comparison.

Obviously, the 888D is legendary due to its long-established popularity as a relatively inexpensive upgrade from a department store fixed temp pencil iron. It has introduced many serious students to soldering. But not only has it been surpassed in the bang-for-buck category by cheap T12 and JBC clones, but it doesn't compare to high-end models from Pace, Metcal, and JBC. If you've experienced those higher-end stations and still enjoy using the 888D, then I think you're a rare bird indeed but more power to you.

DT830 DMMs are also cheap and prolific, and serve untold millions of people well in their limited use cases, but aren't typically what someone advancing beyond rank beginner strives to use everyday. Not that I don't use them at all -- I have several DT830's tucked away in various places as disposable meters -- but they're not my preferred daily drivers either.

[xavier60]

I have been noticing that cartridge type tips are generally shorter and thicker than conventional type tips like the T18 range.
As the length is increased and the cross section is reduced, the performance of even cartridge type tips is quickly lost.

[xavier60]

In case someone hasn't seen the FX-971 yet,
Hakko have put the mains switch in the correct place, on the front.

[aeberbach]

I am leaning towards a fx-971. My 942 has been so great I would not hesitate to get another Hakko.

[nhand42]

In case someone hasn't seen the FX-971 yet,
Hakko have put the mains switch in the correct place, on the front.

Incredible how often they get that wrong

I picked up a FX-971 this week from RMS components. I've been a Hakko fanboy for decades my first Hakko iron was a 926, so when I saw the new 971 was out couldn't help myself. Presets are easy to save and select. Hot swappable tips works as advertised. The setback feature doesn't need a cable to the main unit anymore. Maybe a gyro sensor in the handpiece? Assembled a board today and was a good experience. Heats up fast, sleeps automatically, handpiece feels great, stand is solid. Ten out of ten would recommend.

FX-971 requires a new series of tips of course. T39 series. RMS didn't have my preferred hook tips in stock. TE has hook tips but shipping to Australia is too expensive. They're eye wateringly expensive too. Getting a full set of tips will cost as much as the iron.

I've also got a 888D and I don't think it "sucks" like the op stated. It's very basic but it works fine. I don't think any of the Hakko irons "suck". They're frequently overpriced but that's a different matter.

[Langdon]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

P.S. If you also want a fume extractor and a desoldering station, consider buying the Xytronic LF-8800.


Disclaimer: I do not own a Xytronic LF-8800.
I own a Hakko FX-600 and a Hakko FX-888D.

I am in Ontario, Canada.

[Veteran68]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

Different strokes and all that, but I have to ask if you have any experience with modern cartridge-based irons?

While I thought the 888D beat out the old school simple pencil irons in terms of ergonomics (horrible UI notwithstanding), it was still frustrating to solder well with compared to modern cartridge based irons. After getting my Pace ADS200, I couldn't even look at the 888D anymore. Even the several different Chinese T12 and JBC based USB irons I have work better than the 888D. It was just very inconsistent for me.

[coppice]

I have a Hakko FX-888D station and I LOVE IT!!!!!

It is way better than an FX-600, and that's a pretty good iron.

The FX-888D is ergonomic, fast, and long-lasting.

P.S. If you also want a fume extractor and a desoldering station, consider buying the Xytronic LF-8800.


Disclaimer: I do not own a Xytronic LF-8800.
I own a Hakko FX-600 and a Hakko FX-888D.

I am in Ontario, Canada.

I think the Hakko FX-888D was a great product when it was at its original price, but its not so great for the price people charge in most places now. If they got it back to well below $100 I would still think its good. It doesn't have the responsiveness of many modern products, but it lasts for years, and never causes you any trouble.

[shapirus]

Here's a less than obvious advice born from practical usage.

If you are buying a soldering station that has a sleep/standby function which is activated via detection of the handle not moving during a configured time, then try to find one where the movement detector is accelerometer-based rather than a contacts-and-ball switch based one.
The latter often fails to detect any movement when you're actually soldering with the handle being held at a constant angle, which is what usually happens. This makes the station go to sleep when you're soldering several joints and spend enough time without putting the handle into the stand. This is very annoying: you suddenly encounter that the solder stops melting like it should, then you look at the display to see that the station is falling asleep, because you failed to trigger the motion detection sensor.
The sensor has to be able to detect movement in more then one axis or be more sensitive otherwise. I bought some mercury vibration sensors to replace the mechanical one in my KSGER's T12 handle, but haven't tried them yet -- maybe they'll work better.

p.s. and yeah, I will join others: don't even consider stations that don't use cartridge tips. Get T12 at least, but if I were buying a new station today, I'd probably get something more powerful still, like T245, or whatever uses the most widely available tips. Something more powerful than a T12 will (depends on the typical use case though) rarely be needed, but when you do need it, with T12 it can be quite annoying to have to change the tips to beefier ones and/or increase temperature specifically to work in a certain spot that needs a lot of heat. Changing tips is a quick and easy operation, however.

[wraper]

I also don't like my FX888D, so I bought some chinese alternatives, which were using same tips, like CXG or Yuhua. Same sluggish performance.
Then friend suggested me T12. I tried several ones and finally found an excellent choice.

If you got the same performance, then FX888D was fake or was used with fake tips.

[beatman]

Here is my experience.I own the last 4 years the weller 1010 with medium to hard use.Broke only two tips chinzel 1.6 in 4 years.Clean every time the tip on distilled water sponge or brass wool.Generally i am happy with the station. Last winter by another one 1010 but is different the station get's more quick to the set temperature (few seconds) and  temperature is more stable when i solder.Playing with the offset settings on both units to much together i get better results in the older station (temp and stability) close but not the same performance like the new unit using the same tips.Inside the units are identical is all exactly the same (pcb chip traffo).i think is firmware relative the differences?Or better heat element sensor?Reverse the soldering iron new old - old new and nothing change.

[floobydust]

Copper is the new gold, the amount in tips is decreasing and I find more steel is being used, so thermal mass and heat transfer is not as good. Try a magnet.

I have an FX-888 and noticed the tips have a few thou smaller ID than 936 tips - which also fit but perform like shit for soldering anything where you need heat for more than a few seconds. That air gap makes the station perform not as good.
I find T12 clones are not so great because they have lots of steel in the tips and the plating is terrible for wetting.
Best for heat and through-hole is my WTCPN.

[amwales]

Metcal, I love my second hand Metcal, do a little research on them and tip availability and whether you intend to use it for leaded or non-leaded work as the tips control the temperature for you. The old ones are built like tanks ( cant speak for newer models ) as it would appear that someone forgot all about inbuilt obsolescence. The patents have expired so it may be worth a look at Thermaltronics too.

[nigelwright7557]

After 2 failed soldering stations I gave up and went back to a simple 30 watt soldering iron.
I got a £15 Maplin Antex er30.
Tips last a long time.

[shapirus]

Copper is the new gold, the amount in tips is decreasing and I find more steel is being used, so thermal mass and heat transfer is not as good. Try a magnet.

Heat capacity of iron is considerably higher than that of copper, so steel is better for "thermal mass".
But for heat transfer, yes, copper is better.

The solution may be quite the opposite of the intuitive one. With the microcontroller-operated soldering stations and powerful heating elements, we want to decrease the thermal intertia of the tip as much as possible so that the temperature sensor in the tip sees (feels? :) the (changes in) temperature of the external surface of the tip sooner to allow for a faster reaction to turn the heating element on or off.
It's similar to the difference between a passive low-pass smoothing RC filter with a huge cap and an active one with an op amp constantly receiving feedback from the output and adjusting it as necessary.

[Jwillis]

I've been using a Quick TS1200A now for 4 years and the same tip it came with. I have bought other tips but never used them yet. Then only problem I've had was with the iron handle when the blue plastic guard popped off. Repaired it with high temp epoxy and it's been good every since. When doing SMDs I ussally don't have to make direct contact to the pins. Just the heat and flow from the trace solders the component with ease.

A quick note on the value of copper without hijacking the point of the thread to much . I just finished up an environmental clean up for ATCO that involved a off line high voltage transformer that was cut open to steal the copper inside. This has become epidemic here and some of the thefts are so brazen it's just bizarre. 

[xavier60]

I was planning to get a FX-971 whenever it went on special.
It didn't take long to happen. https://www.oritech.com.au/FX971/Hakko-FX971-Soldering-Station/pd.php
I currently mostly use the conical T18-S4 tip, so I have ordered a HT39-I02 tip and also a HT39-B02 to try because of its lower cost.
https://www.oritech.com.au/Soldering-and-Rework-Equipment/Soldering-Tips/Hakko-T39-Range/pl.php

[trackersoft]

OK, This and other threads have been interesting as my old and aging Solderite SGS-3015 was getting me more and more frustrated. Being a ham radio op, I mainly work on restoring old Collins radios from the 40's through the 80's -- commercial, military and ham -- so I work on both point to point and through hole. Time to look for a new soldering station. The sale on the Pace ADS200 caught my eye and I decided that would be a good purchase so I tried ordering one and was first surprised with a shipping fee of over $50 and then their ordering page kept giving errors. I sent an email to Pace and had not heard back. I did hear back later from Pace with a nice email but I had moved on.

Then I talked with a good friend who used to work at Collins and he uses Metcal - and loves it. That lead me to look at the Thermaltronics 2000S. Ended up ordering one with a few cartridges/tips. It arrived a couple of days before Christmas and wow, I am impressed. Heats up FAST and stays hot! Really looking forward to using it this year! I think I made a good choice but time will tell. Now I am looking at adding the desoldering kit for it as my Hakko 808 is showing some age also and I have a bunch of boards for HF80 equipment to repair - tracking down bad tantalums and replacing them. Anyone have experience with the desoldering kit?

[cosmicray]

I think the Hakko FX-888D was a great product when it was at its original price, but its not so great for the price people charge in most places now. If they got it back to well below $100 I would still think its good. It doesn't have the responsiveness of many modern products, but it lasts for years, and never causes you any trouble.

So I went back and looked at what I paid for my 888D, early in 2015 (~9 years ago). With a small variety of tips it cost me $110 USD. Back then it's reputation was not as entrenched as it is today, and the manufacturer may have been trying harder to garner sales. USD also had better buying power back then, but has lost much due to inflation (but that is an Economics topic). If the 888D is still a solid product, the 2024 price may be well worth it. Checking the search engine results, it seems to be between $120-$150 USD. That is about what I expected to see (but not what anyone who remembers the old prices wants to see).

Cheers

[tooki]

I think the Hakko FX-888D was a great product when it was at its original price, but its not so great for the price people charge in most places now. If they got it back to well below $100 I would still think its good. It doesn't have the responsiveness of many modern products, but it lasts for years, and never causes you any trouble.

So I went back and looked at what I paid for my 888D, early in 2015 (~9 years ago). With a small variety of tips it cost me $110 USD. Back then it's reputation was not as entrenched as it is today, and the manufacturer may have been trying harder to garner sales.

Well, just yesterday I came across a book (from USA) from 1993 that recommended Hakko equipment. And given that the FX-888 (no “D”), which had a large fan base already, had been discontinued when you got yours, I don’t think there’s any basis to assume that Hakko was acting like a startup trying to break into an existing market. They had already been an established member of that market for many decades by then.

[coppice]

I think the Hakko FX-888D was a great product when it was at its original price, but its not so great for the price people charge in most places now. If they got it back to well below $100 I would still think its good. It doesn't have the responsiveness of many modern products, but it lasts for years, and never causes you any trouble.

So I went back and looked at what I paid for my 888D, early in 2015 (~9 years ago). With a small variety of tips it cost me $110 USD. Back then it's reputation was not as entrenched as it is today, and the manufacturer may have been trying harder to garner sales.

Well, just yesterday I came across a book (from USA) from 1993 that recommended Hakko equipment. And given that the FX-888 (no “D”), which had a large fan base already, had been discontinued when you got yours, I don’t think there’s any basis to assume that Hakko was acting like a startup trying to break into an existing market. They had already been an established member of that market for many decades by then.

In 1993 Hakko was de rigeur for any decent lab in Asia, and widespread in production there, but they were hardly known in the west.

[tooki]

But they were known in the west by some people at least (which was the point of saying that an American book from 1993 suggested them), but moreover, they certainly were well-established in the west by 2015, when cosmicray bought his and claimed they were unknown and suggesting they were acting like a low-cost new entrant. They certainly weren’t doing that on 2015!!

[coppice]

But they were known in the west by some people at least (which was the point of saying that an American book from 1993 suggested them), but moreover, they certainly were well-established in the west by 2015, when cosmicray bought his and claimed they were unknown and suggesting they were acting like a low-cost new entrant. They certainly weren’t doing that on 2015!!

Oh sure. The 888D was inexpensive (about $70 I think) in 2000 in Asia, and should have been a cheap near obsolete model by 2015. Instead it went up a lot.

[rsjsouza]

Ok, late to the party but here'smy $0.02. I have an FX-888 (non-D, $89 circa 2012) and do a lot of mixed vintage and SMD electronics - no issues at all in any of the fronts, including those pesky lead free solder and massive thermal planes of through hole parts - just use a genuine tip that gives the most surface area and compensate with higher temperature if things get pesky. Also, no need to fiddle with firmwares and alarm clock interfaces - a pot is all you need (but this is a rare breed). Still in my plans are a second wand for a quick tip replacement. Tweezers would be nice to have as well, but that can get expensive.

And yes, I have experience with regular T12-style soldering stations at work (FX-951, FX-100, FM-203) and in the past they had a selection of Metcal stations. I find the Hakko ones perform similarly to my FX888 at home with the occasional annoyances of sleeping during soldering on some stations, the hopeless graphical display and button interface on the FX100 and perhaps one or another annoyance that I can't recall. As for the Metcal, I really didn't care for it - the FX-951 worked much better for me.

[uli12us]

I can recommend fake JBC Stations from China. Aifen or Sugon are the same but have in some cases different company names, but the stations are exactly the same. They offer
Stations from 70$ to 400$, dependent from the numbers of different channels, iron and tips. Most of the stations offers the possibility to use 3 different irons with power from 20-120W.
https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-aifen-.html? The delivery time to germany is  in the range of 2 weeks, I think to america is not longer.

[User01]

I just picked up one of these. Its 3d printed, battery powered, and AWSOME.

https://www.amazon.com/Deackimei-Milwaukee-18V-Battery-Temperature/dp/B0CM95RBL

It's not bench top or daily driver. But for a mobile unit I dig it.

I ended up here because my FX-888 is acting up and the FX-888D sucks.

[floobydust]

Hakko discontinued FX-888D, now replaced by FX-888DX with better UI: changed to a rotary encoder, and 95W option.
I don't see it offered on the Hakko USA site yet.

[shapirus]

Hakko discontinued FX-888D, now replaced by FX-888DX with better UI: changed to a rotary encoder, and 95W option.
I don't see it offered on the Hakko USA site yet.

Interesting. I thought that slide-on tip systems had no future, but we see that new models are released. Are they not much worse in terms of performance than cartridge tip systems? I would assume that Hakko knows what to do, so probably they are good? How do they compare to, say, T12?

[tooki]

Interesting. I thought that slide-on tip systems had no future, but we see that new models are released. Are they not much worse in terms of performance than cartridge tip systems? I would assume that Hakko knows what to do, so probably they are good? How do they compare to, say, T12?

Ersa released its latest slip-on tip system, the 142 series, a year and a half ago (snuck in on the i-Con Trace production station) with the broader release last July with the i-Con Mark II stations. The original i-Con series was introduced in 2007, and I had that at my old job, and at home. The update claims 20% improved performance.

I’ve never used T12, but I have used JBC T245 and Pace TD-100, and while the Ersa doesn’t heat quite as fast, it’s still under 10 seconds from cold to ~350C. It has no trouble with anything I throw at it. In actual use, there’s no noticeable difference between JBC and Ersa. (But I prefer the Ersa handpiece.)

Let’s put it this way: I got to buy a new soldering station at work last month. Anything I wanted, more or less. I chose the Ersa i-Con 2G Mk II. JBC stations cost roughly the same, but the tip costs are incomparable, costing around 3x as much for basic tips, 2-3x as much for more exotic  shapes. That, and easier tip availability, more than made up the tiny advantage in heating speed of the JBC.

Cartridge heater systems can be great, but slip-on tip systems can be great too. A really well-done one like Ersa is functionally indistinguishable in everyday use. IMHO the quality of the control loop can make an even bigger difference (as evidenced by Pace’s somewhat anemic performance in the ADS200 due to a very conservative PID tuning.)

[xvr]

I want to add my 5 cents for Metcal. I use one for more than 15 years now (it's P-600 model, now obsolete), and absolutely happy with it. Some time ago I'd try some T-12 clone from China (they promise 120W), and it works fine (very fast heat up, good temperature control) until I try to solder SMD resistor to ground plane on PCB. Instead of soldering resistor T12 solder itself to ground plane 120W doesn't help.

Metcal works out fine. Of course it couldn't work out for сast-iron pan soldering, but for PCB it is a great tool.