Author Topic: Solder technique: Over or Under?  (Read 7796 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 09:44:16 pm »
While I have yet to delve into actual small component electronics soldering,...........
When you do you will in time develop your own style........eg. for SMD as you will never have enough hands  ;) while holding a component on the pads touch the pad with the iron tip close to the component and allow the solder to wick into the joint and create the fillet. Rinse and repeat on the other pad/s and maybe top up the fillet from above/over to make a larger/stronger fillet. For the size SMD that is easy to solder (0603 +) the common mistake is to use too smaller tip that won't hold enough solder to make even a small fillet to hold the component in place until one hand is free from tweezers and can hold the solder reel.
As SMD components are plated a pre-tin of the pad is usually enough to have enough solder there when touched again from above/over with the component in place will form a good enough joint to tack it for the final soldering.

Others will have their own style and it's good to share what works for each of us as we can all pick up little tips.  :)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline Audioguru

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2017, 09:51:46 pm »
In Canada I pronounce it as saw...der. In England they pronounce it as so...daw. I say water and they say wotaw.
 

Offline neko efecktz

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2017, 10:10:44 pm »
Tomatoes - tomartoes
Potatoes - potartoes
Let's call the whole thing off.

WE SPIKA DA INGLISH GOOD NO?
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2017, 10:44:29 pm »
In Canada I pronounce it as saw...der. In England they pronounce it as so...daw. I say water and they say wotaw.

I've never heard anyone in England not pronounce the "L" sound in solder, perhaps you missed it? We all say sol daw.

 

Online Brumby

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2017, 02:04:05 am »
I've only heard people refer to "sodding" from North America.

In Australia, the material is referred to as "sol-dah", "sol-dar" or occasionally "sol-der".  No sodding down here.
 

Offline Luminax

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2017, 04:44:03 pm »
we pronounce it 'soul-der' here :D
But anyway, the point is not that what is the correct method (because there's none, correct technique maybe...) but the fact that he's pushing his ideology of this 'correct method' and says that the other method is wrong, and boy that sure triggers me!

... I've been watching too many of those social thingamabob video on youtube, somebody shoot me...  :scared:
Jack of all trade - Master of some... I hope...
 

Online Brumby

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2017, 12:27:08 am »
If we give you a little more time, you'll be prepared to shoot yourself - or the computer.  Saves any of us from having to face the consequences of a mercy killing.


Go fishing - or plant a tree.

Better still - go find an interesting piece of test gear and take it apart!
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2017, 01:28:33 am »
As many have said, you can get a good solder joint with many techniques.

I believe that back when manufacturing involved making lots of hand soldered joints the manufacturers found that cold and unfilled solder joints occurred more frequently when solder was added on the same side of the joint as the iron.  Makes sense, the far side of the joint will be cooler, and possibly below soldering temperature.  You can watch this happening yourself if you solder large wires with a low power iron.   This observation then informed the training on how to solder and has been passed down through the years.  But it has nothing to do with top or bottom.
 
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Offline daveyk

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2017, 02:07:17 pm »


WE SPIKA DA INGLISH GOOD NO?


Yuns should come to central Pennsylvania; we'll fix that opinion.

"Tar" has three meanings:
The radio broadcasts from a "tar"
The "tar" on your car is flat
You need more "tar" on your ruf to keep it from leaking.

Fire:
Start a "far" and burn that rubbage.
Harrisburg is a "far" ways away.

I could go on...


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Offline mfratus2001

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2017, 04:30:25 pm »
He is using a soldering GUN, which is only appropriate for large wires and large objects. In general, though, the same principles apply. He gets it WAY too hot. See the big cloud of flux/lead vapor? Not good.

The first and foremost goal is to transfer heat from the tip to the wire. "From below" isn't much better than using a candle or match to heat the wire. "From above" is lame also because he is not using any pressure between the iron and the wire. Instead, he drips solder onto the wire from the hot iron, and creates a bridge of solder to transfer the heat to it.

Best practice would be to use pressure between the iron and wire, apply solder between the iron and wire, and let it flow, not "paint" it onto the wire. Always use rosin core solder, or either liquid or paste rosin.

Same technique is used with an iron and even with SMD devices, except that you tin the iron and control the heat better. Don't let it get so hot that it evaporates the flux (that big cloud when the solder touches the iron) and "cooks" the solder (solder gets rough-looking and creates peaks and strings), and most importantly, burn up your PCB and device!
Solder should NEVER be "painted" on. It should FLOW onto the joint.

Lead-free solder is special and takes special techniques and even special flux.
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2017, 05:28:59 pm »


WE SPIKA DA INGLISH GOOD NO?


Yuns should come to central Pennsylvania; we'll fix that opinion.

"Tar" has three meanings:
The radio broadcasts from a "tar"
The "tar" on your car is flat
You need more "tar" on your ruf to keep it from leaking.

Fire:
Start a "far" and burn that rubbage.
Harrisburg is a "far" ways away.

I could go on...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 Throw the horse over the fence some hay and don't forget to outten the light when you're done.

 

Offline Shock

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2017, 05:50:41 pm »
See the big cloud of flux/lead vapor? Not good.

Lead boiling point 1749 °C, ?3180 °F.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline mfratus2001

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2017, 06:11:58 pm »
Solder does not have to boil for the lead to evaporate, same as any liquid. It just evaporates faster, the hotter it gets.

OK, it could also be that the metal oxidizes, but I see loss of solder volume on a really hot tip, and the solder is not much good after that, so it could be both. Just stay in the right temperature range and you won't have much trouble.

http://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/faq#46341-tip-temperatures-what-is-the-recommended-soldering-iron-tip-temperature
 

Offline daveyk

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2017, 06:40:48 pm »


WE SPIKA DA INGLISH GOOD NO?


Yuns should come to central Pennsylvania; we'll fix that opinion.

"Tar" has three meanings:
The radio broadcasts from a "tar"
The "tar" on your car is flat
You need more "tar" on your ruf to keep it from leaking.

Fire:
Start a "far" and burn that rubbage.
Harrisburg is a "far" ways away.

I could go on...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 Throw the horse over the fence some hay and don't forget to outten the light when you're done.

<smile>


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2017, 08:10:31 am »
Best practice would be to use pressure between the iron and wire, apply solder between the iron and wire, and let it flow, not "paint" it onto the wire. Always use rosin core solder, or either liquid or paste rosin.

Same technique is used with an iron and even with SMD devices, except that you tin the iron and control the heat better. Don't let it get so hot that it evaporates the flux (that big cloud when the solder touches the iron) and "cooks" the solder (solder gets rough-looking and creates peaks and strings), and most importantly, burn up your PCB and device!
Solder should NEVER be "painted" on. It should FLOW onto the joint.
Says who? The professional tutorials I've seen very much say that it should be "painted" on, literally using that exact word. I think perhaps you're using the term "painted" to mean "applied to an uncooperative surface", which isn't what everyone else means.
 

Offline mfratus2001

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2017, 09:24:09 pm »
I have been working in electronics as an occupation for decades. I worked as an assembler, in test-and-repair, in engineering positions, and in design positions. I have learned from the best and can produce NASA- and MIL-Spec-level work. So, as one who was paid to correct the mistakes and poor workmanship of others, and be the one to say that a product is ready to ship... I kinda think I'm qualified to say what is a proper soldering practice and what is not.
And, I actually have taken (and passed) a few certificate-level classes on soldering. I was just sharing my knowledge and experience with people.
You can download a free copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook from the ARRL at https://archive.org/details/RadioAmateurHandbook1976 and read the section on soldering if you want. This handbook is great for hobbyists and professionals alike. It covers the practical aspects. It is about 60MB but is a keeper.
It would be interesting to see what videos you are talking about, but, alas, no links.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 09:31:22 pm »
One example that came to mind is the videos from PACE, which expressly talk about painting solder on.

E.g. https://youtu.be/Mrhg5A1a1mU (skip to about 5:05)


and https://youtu.be/AY5M-lGxvzo (skip to 2:00).
 

Offline mfratus2001

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2017, 09:54:05 pm »
I see what you mean. I have seen people "paint" solder onto joints, and never make that metal-to-metal connection. In some of the repairs I do, I find wires through holes, and even wrapped around terminals, but because not enough heat was used to get the flux and then solder flowing, the wire never was actually soldered onto. You could just pull the wire right out.
In professional soldering, you are not allowed to have voids and blow-holes, and the solder has to be bright and smooth.
The final appearance of the joint is the judge as to whether you have the right technique or not. Good videos. Thanks.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2017, 10:26:25 pm »
Absolutelty. As I said in my first comment, if by "painting" you meant forcing solder onto a non-receptive surface, then yeah, it's very bad. But I think that if the joint is done properly, as PACE's military-grade demos show, then wiping the solder wire across the joint to apply it is a valid technique.

I know exactly what you mean with those bad joints.

If you haven't seen all of PACE's videos, wait till you get to the rework Adventures in Repair series! You're in for a treat (of corny acting awesomeness)!!

https://youtu.be/hzZuryFmPo0
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 11:04:18 pm by tooki »
 

Online Brumby

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2017, 02:55:18 am »
Corny acting excluded, that was interesting.

Never had to even contemplate such repair work - and you would certainly need to have the right tools on hand to make it easier and quicker to do a good job.

Not sure how you would go with some of the boards around today, though.  Those training board tracks seemed reeeeaaaalllly broad and widely spaced.
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2017, 03:52:45 am »
That's some CHEESY production value! But, I still want to watch the next episode. :)
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2017, 04:26:09 am »
I just watched all 3 at 2x speed... LOL...
__________
BrianHG.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2017, 09:39:40 am »
Corny acting excluded, that was interesting.

Never had to even contemplate such repair work - and you would certainly need to have the right tools on hand to make it easier and quicker to do a good job.

Not sure how you would go with some of the boards around today, though.  Those training board tracks seemed reeeeaaaalllly broad and widely spaced.
Everything about PACE tells me that at least back then, their specialty was in military electronics (they were originally based in Silver Spring, Maryland [a place I once lived!] — defense is Maryland's biggest industry). As such, cost is nearly no object, and I expect that the boards needing repair are necessarily older and conservatively designed.

That said, no doubt they have newer training materials that aren't on the web, and handle such rework on modern boards. ::shudder::
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2017, 03:33:05 pm »
It is hard to imagine where that level of effort is a better choice than doing a new board.  Until you realize they aren't working on their own product.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Solder technique: Over or Under?
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2017, 05:21:26 pm »
It is hard to imagine where that level of effort is a better choice than doing a new board.  Until you realize they aren't working on their own product.
Not only that, but possibly on a product that hasn't been made in years.

Take a look at this company, whose specialty is to continue manufacturing obsolete semiconductors for the military (by buying the tooling, specs, processes, intellectual property, etc — and the contracts — from the company that's abandoning the product): http://www.lansdale.com

This is their slogan:  ;D ;D ;D

 


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