Author Topic: soldering.  (Read 26389 times)

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Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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soldering.
« on: July 05, 2016, 11:45:16 am »
Hi,

Soldering components is somehow a good skill to learn especially when you are dealing with electronics, but unfortunately nobody explained me how thing works, as a result I always make bad soldering, because I probably lack knowledge and tools to actually make it good... Is there anything I can do to improve my skills and knowledge?

Thanks.
 

Offline Aodhan145

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2016, 11:56:54 am »




Hope this helps they are good videos.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2016, 12:09:20 pm »
Start here:
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 12:24:08 pm »
Pretty but obsessive for general soldering in my opinion.  He has several videos that you may find informative.  I find that Kester - 44 RA Solder Wire, .031" dia., Sn63Pb37 works well for me for through hole soldering.  I don't recommend the 60/40 solder blends.  A smaller diameter would be better for SMD parts.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 08:36:26 pm by MarkF »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2016, 01:35:22 pm »
How to improve your soldering?  It's like, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"  Practice, practice and more practice. ;D  Get a bunch of cheap TH components like resisitors, capacitors and IC sockets and proto boards from eBay and solder away.  Move on to basic through hole kits that do something and then move on to basic SMD kits from eBay.  Don't forget to get flux and solder wick.

Oh, yeah, watch the videos first. :-+ :-+
"Heaven has been described as the place that once you get there all the dogs you ever loved run up to greet you."
 

Offline mariush

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2016, 05:24:23 pm »
I've made posts on this forum here suggesting some of the videos already posted here.

Recently, I've written a long post on another forum to a beginner giving advice about soldering : https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/603395-what-type-of-solder-do-i-need-when-replacing-capacitors/#comment-7825195

It also links to some of the videos already embedded here (the Pace videos are quite good, you should watch them even if they're old and may seem outdated).
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2016, 05:30:49 pm »
(the Pace videos are quite good, you should watch them even if they're old and may seem outdated).

The tools and examples are indeed fairly outdated (although many still relevant - solder cups anyone?), but the fundamental techniques are valid all the way from 01005 to 2" pipe with a torch!
 

Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 10:36:32 pm »
Well, so, my solders are crap because:
1. I don't have the right tool (mains $5 soldering iron)
2. I dont have the right tip on the soldering iron
3. I've not the right solder (leadless)
4. I used to solder putting the media on the tip
5. I don't use flux

Definitely, a mess.
 

Offline BMack

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2016, 06:07:01 am »
Well, so, my solders are crap because:
1. I don't have the right tool (mains $5 soldering iron)
2. I dont have the right tip on the soldering iron
3. I've not the right solder (leadless)
4. I used to solder putting the media on the tip
5. I don't use flux

Definitely, a mess.

Recognizing the problems are the first step in solving the issue, you're on your way to improving already.  :-+
 

Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2016, 08:14:45 am »
Let's talk about a soldering station. Is it better to buy a soldering station with only the iron or with also the hot air? Also hakko is not available in my country.
On ebay at hand i see: YIHUA, W.E.P, lafayette, weller, what brand I should choose? May be better considering only hakko?
 

Offline yakacm

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 10:19:01 am »
Be careful buying Hakko, there is a lot of counterfeit stuff around, especially if you are buying from eBay and seems cheap, as you say Hakko stuff is difficult to get hold of in Europe and there are a lot of hobbyists after the FX888d, so no one needs to sell them cheap, so if you do see them cheap, you should be suspicious. I just got mine from Maplin in the UK, it's possible they may ship to Italy (you are in Italia I believe?) RobSavvy list them on their website too, but they seem to have been on back order for a while now, I think they are in Germany, so maybe more likely to ship to you if Maplin don't.
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2016, 11:40:59 am »
Well, so, my solders are crap because:
1. I don't have the right tool (mains $5 soldering iron)
2. I dont have the right tip on the soldering iron
3. I've not the right solder (leadless)
4. I used to solder putting the media on the tip
5. I don't use flux

Definitely, a mess.

You probably do use flux, almost all solder has a flux / resin core inside.

McBryce.
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2016, 12:11:02 pm »
Yes, most solder has flux inside it these days, but it's in a limited amount, between 1% and 3%.

The flux is designed in such a way that it turns liquid or somewhat liquid before the actual solder melts, and falls down on the area where you want to solder (the wire lead, pcb pad, whatever metal your tip is near) and attacks the surface removing oxides and preparing the surface for the actual surface.

Especially if you have a cheap unregulated solder iron, or if you use too high temperature on the tip, when you're done using solder wire it can often happen that due to the high temperature some of the flux inside the solder wire that's left on the spool has poured out because it melted faster than the actual solder, let's say maybe a centimeter or so.

That's why you'll see advice like you see in that Avionics soldering series of videos linked above , to cut a cm or so of solder from the beginning of the spool whenever you start soldering (to make sure there's flux right at the beginning), or to cut a small piece of solder from the spool and use that (so that when you work again with solder from the spool, there will be flux right at the beginning of the wire)

Flux is seriously very important and really helps soldering, and if you look around you can find liquid flux relatively cheaply - I bought a tiny 50ml bottle of no-clean flux  for something like 3$ from a local store in my country, big distributors sell 5-10ml flux pens for 5-10$ or something like that.
A European distributor sells the same flux i use cheaply, from a couple of dollars + about 5$ shipping : http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/#search=topnik+flux&s_field=niski_prog&s_order=ASC&id_category=100484&visible_params=1677%2C2%2C1625%2C1682%2C909%2C849%2C436%2C1597%2C74&used_params=2%3A84346%3B909%3A6811%3B1677%3A10968%3B

You can then go to a pharmacy or a vet and buy a few syringes and needles and take a few ml from the bottle whenever you need to control the amount of flux you apply on boards or leads.
Here, pharmacies sell syringes and needles no questions asked, but in other countries if there are some stupid laws (maybe they think you're drug addict), a vet shouldn't have problems giving you some needles that aren't suitable for humans (larger in diameter or something like that). But you can do without syringes, in worst case scenario you make a hole in the bottle cap with a regular needle and use some tape to close the cap when you're done.

After flux, In order of importance I'd say the technique of soldering matters - you don't put solder on the tip and then bring it to surfaces unless you have separate flux to apply beforehand on the surfaces that will end up soldered (because putting the solder on the tip burns out the flux inside the solder).

A tiny bit of solder to the tip is ok, to make transfer of temperature more efficient.

If flux is used, there's whole soldering tehniques like "drag soldering" and others explained in the videos above, where you put flux on the tip and drag the tip over contacts and the solder is sucked on the metal contacts and solders the parts ... but again, separate flux is essential for this kind of soldering.

Then you have the soldering wires, I explain in the link from my post above differences between some solders. I prefer 63/37 and then 60/40 . Lead free solder needs more temperature to melt and it's harder to visually determine if your soldering was proper when you're done, so with mains soldering irons it's harder to properly solder. Get a good quality solder with lead in it.

So quality flux and quality solder are cheap and good investements that will last you long time. Buy them from an authorized distributor, not eBay or Chinese stores. Digikey, Newark , Mouser in US,  Farnell or TME.eu in Europe , these are the big known sellers.

As for soldering stations, see the suggestions I made here about cheap soldering stations you can get from eBay : https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/608140-good-solder-iron-under-60-cad/

They're clones of old Hakko soldering station designs (like clones of Hakko 936) but that old design is so simple and cheap to reproduce, even these clones are decent enough, good value for the money.


« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 12:16:44 pm by mariush »
 

Offline macboy

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2016, 12:51:31 pm »
You must have good equipment and good consumables, or you can't do a good soldering job. There are many good enough soldering irons/stations out there. The choice of tip size and temperature is more important than the brand name on the iron, as long as the iron isn't junk.

For newbies, I'd recommend Kester 44 solder with "66 core" in either 63/37 or 60/40 (tin/lead). The 44 flux is rosin based, and is an RA (Rosin, Activated) type so it is relatively aggressive and cleans even rather heavily oxidized stuff, letting the solder wet and flow easily. Even though it is RA, it is also safe to leave the flux residue on the board. If you want to clean it, use simple IPA. The "66 core" means that the flux core is 66% of the width of the solder wire, amounting to about 3.3% by weight, the highest amount commonly available. That's about equal amounts of flux and solder. This leaves more residue than lesser cores, but when you are a newbie, you want the help from the extra flux. Other common core sizes are 50 (1.1%) and 58 (2.2%). The 50 core stuff is usually only used for no-clean applications where you can't or don't want to clean up the residue. Avoid it.
 

Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2016, 01:12:57 pm »
Be careful buying Hakko, there is a lot of counterfeit stuff around, especially if you are buying from eBay and seems cheap, as you say Hakko stuff is difficult to get hold of in Europe and there are a lot of hobbyists after the FX888d, so no one needs to sell them cheap, so if you do see them cheap, you should be suspicious. I just got mine from Maplin in the UK, it's possible they may ship to Italy (you are in Italia I believe?) RobSavvy list them on their website too, but they seem to have been on back order for a while now, I think they are in Germany, so maybe more likely to ship to you if Maplin don't.
You centered the point: This is exactly my concern. what if it's counterfeited? return shipping would be as much as the item price!. Maplin does not ship to Italy. It ships only in the UK/Ireland... RoboSavvy has it, but it's 120VAC. We have 230VAC, and I don't have an inverter...

Also, I have read the forum on cheap soldering stations. They are not worth it. What about weller flux? Is that bad? http://www.weller-toolsus.com/dispensing/solvent-dispensers/weller-fd2-flux-dispenser-020-needle-fd2.html

this is the solder I have: http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Soldering-wire/p/sm/1043308299.htm#1043308299
I've also found this: http://articulo.mercadolibre.cl/MLC-436340533-soldadura-super-solder-wire-60-_JM
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 01:28:35 pm by R005T3r »
 

Offline gblades

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2016, 01:28:47 pm »
Let's talk about a soldering station. Is it better to buy a soldering station with only the iron or with also the hot air? Also hakko is not available in my country.
On ebay at hand i see: YIHUA, W.E.P, lafayette, weller, what brand I should choose? May be better considering only hakko?

Personally I would go for separate units as you have a more varied choice.
I have the http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/zd-931-89-3106/soldering-station-esd-bs-plug/dp/SD01120 soldering station. I think it is pretty good and it has very good thermal contact between the heater element and the tip. The downside of this is that changing tips is not easy when they are hot but given the cheap price of replacement irons you can just buy a 2nd and switch them over instead.

I bought this ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170941205406 ) hot air station which is a very budget one but it seems to do the job. I have played with it and managed to remove screens from old faulty mobile phones etc... so it seems to be powerful enough. The only thing I could not remove were some large BGA chips on a mobile phone board but looking at the ones I did remove they all had underfill which was more like glue.
 

Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2016, 02:14:30 pm »
Once you have some at least descent gear , then the practice part ,
Start collecting all kinds of discarded circuit boards , through hole & SMD .
Its cheaper to damage trash , then something you want to work when your done .
Then when you think your doing ok , test yourself , get a working / cheap or free , motherboard and start removing / replacing the easiest parts , then see if it still works ;)
Then try removing the balled processors , clean board and re-ball , not reflow and see if it still works . 
 

Offline Augustus

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2016, 02:28:51 pm »
You centered the point: This is exactly my concern. what if it's counterfeited? return shipping would be as much as the item price!. Maplin does not ship to Italy. It ships only in the UK/Ireland... RoboSavvy has it, but it's 120VAC. We have 230VAC, and I don't have an inverter...

If you're from Italy, just buy your Hakko gear from Batterfly. They are an Italian company and they sell genuine products:

http://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko_fx-888d
Greetings from the Black Forest, Germany
 

Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2016, 05:05:17 pm »
Thanks.  :) I've never heard of this shop, however  :-+, it seems quite interesting, considered that it has also a lot of instruments. Also, on this shop, I can buy the tips and the hot air station too.I guess with a genuine hakko you can't be wrong after all.

 Are all hakko tips interchangeable or you need a specific model?
 

Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2016, 05:18:24 pm »
Hakko has a bunch of models and that means tips have to match the model .
 

Offline Chalcogenide

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2016, 05:30:58 pm »
I bought a KAISI (but there are many rebadges) 936 soldering station and a BAKU 858D hot air station, both on eBay from Italy to avoid customs and endless waiting from China. For the price (<100€ for them plus a few extra tips and accessories), I can't complain. I also bought a second soldering iron for the 936A so that I can have a different tip ready to be used in seconds, without having to wait for the iron to cool down. Replacement tips are very cheap, but good enough if you don't solder every day, or have to deal with high thermal mass components.
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2016, 05:54:43 pm »
One point I'd like to make on the solder.  The 63/37 transitions directly from a liquid to a solid so there is less of a chance for a cold solder joint.  While the 60/40 solder has a middle state that it transitions through.  After I tried the 63/37 solder, I will never go back to the 60/40.  It is so much easier to use.  Also, don't get too big of a diameter, so you have more control over how much solder you're applying for small stuff.

I wouldn't be in a big hurry to get a hot air machine.  Like others have said, get the Hakko 888d, a few tips and start to practice practice practice.   ;D
 

Offline R005T3rTopic starter

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2016, 06:39:39 pm »
I bought a KAISI (but there are many rebadges) 936 soldering station and a BAKU 858D hot air station, both on eBay from Italy to avoid customs and endless waiting from China. For the price (<100€ for them plus a few extra tips and accessories), I can't complain. I also bought a second soldering iron for the 936A so that I can have a different tip ready to be used in seconds, without having to wait for the iron to cool down. Replacement tips are very cheap, but good enough if you don't solder every day, or have to deal with high thermal mass components.
I'll have to deal with high thermal mass components, since I'm planning to make some homemade psu as project. Not to mention I also have to add a switch to an usb audio card and the solder on the power connector won't melt...
 

Offline Watth

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2016, 07:02:33 pm »
Until lately I used a 12€ 220V iron with an integrated thermostat in the handle. I must say it worked rather well, for through-hole and basic SMD.
The only drawback is that it came with some weird kind of tips, of which I couldn't find replacement.
So when chosing equipement consider the availability of compatible accessories.
Because "Matth" was already taken.
 

Offline MarkF

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Re: soldering.
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2016, 09:30:20 pm »
I bought a KAISI (but there are many rebadges) 936 soldering station and a BAKU 858D hot air station, both on eBay from Italy to avoid customs and endless waiting from China. For the price (<100€ for them plus a few extra tips and accessories), I can't complain. I also bought a second soldering iron for the 936A so that I can have a different tip ready to be used in seconds, without having to wait for the iron to cool down. Replacement tips are very cheap, but good enough if you don't solder every day, or have to deal with high thermal mass components.
I'll have to deal with high thermal mass components, since I'm planning to make some homemade psu as project. Not to mention I also have to add a switch to an usb audio card and the solder on the power connector won't melt...

You will probably want to start with 3 basic tip styles:
The T18-D12 is my general purpose goto tip.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 09:47:50 pm by MarkF »
 
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