Soldering issues with new solder

[Cerebus]

63/37 solder is eutectic, meaning it has no plastic phase whatsoever. So either you’re confusing the two or the 63/37 is fake.

Erm, to be pedantic, no. Eutectic means that there is a sudden, well defined transition from the liquid to the solid phase at a specific characteristic temperature, with no temperature where there is an intermediate interphase state where there is both solid and liquid present (and possibly vapour too). The solid phase, for both eutectic and non-eutectic alloys still exhibits plasticity (and elasticity too for that matter). There's more to eutectics than this (like melting point) if one wants to be truly pedantic but I'm concentrating on the most notable characteristic of a Tin-Lead eutectic and it's the use of the phrase 'plastic phase' here that I find problematic enough to moan about.

You are being pedantic for sure, but you’re also wrong. The plastic phase doesn’t refer to the plasticity of the solid phase. It refers to the slushy “interphase state”. I didn’t invent the term “plastic phase”, it’s the term ordinarily used in the solder industry to refer to said state. So if you’re going to argue with me about it, you’ll also have to argue with the entire industry...

Solder salesmen might call it 'plastic' but I'll bet that their metallurgists don't as 'plastic' has a very specific meaning in metallurgy - it's the region on a stress/strain curve where a material goes from the elastic region to where it exhibits permanent deformation (and ultimately failure) with applied stress. I think that you, and the solder salemen, are getting confused with terminology, or just being lax with it. Non eutectic alloys have what is known as a plastic melting range (behaviour that we're all familiar with, heat metal, it gets soft and plastic) where liquid and solid phases co-exist, but eutectic alloys do not exhibit a plastic melting range (this by the way is why some eutectic alloys are used for set points on some temperature scales). A melting range is not the same thing as a phase which is characterised by a state of matter, solid, liquid or gas (not solid, liquid, gas and plastic) hence the term interphase to describe when a mixture of phases exists. So, plastic melting range I would happily give you, but not plastic phase. Yes, this is now very pedantic but it's right.

By coincidence, or perhaps not, the most annoyingly pedantic man I have ever known, and used to share a flat with, Clive, was by training and trade a metallurgist. That's where I initially learned most of this mental clutter from.

[David Hess]

Besides soldering to silver plated terminations, it is also useful where extra strength is required; it is the strongest of the low temperature SnPb alloys and several times stronger than Sn63Pb37 or Sn60Pb40.  It should also wet better.

That is interesting, I’ll have to remember that.

I have sometimes used it on printed circuit board mounted connectors and mechanical assemblies for exactly that reason.

Are you wiping down with a simple cloth or with something else?

I usually use a napkin or paper towel.

[Cerebus]

Besides soldering to silver plated terminations, it is also useful where extra strength is required; it is the strongest of the low temperature SnPb alloys and several times stronger than Sn63Pb37 or Sn60Pb40.  It should also wet better.

That is interesting, I’ll have to remember that.

I have sometimes used it on printed circuit board mounted connectors and mechanical assemblies for exactly that reason.

Are you wiping down with a simple cloth or with something else?

I usually use a napkin or paper towel.

If you're prepared to go to the expense lint-free wipes such as AF Safetiss or the ubiquitous KimWipe are the thing to use. If you examine a board under moderate magnification (say 20x) after wiping it down with a paper towel or similar you'll see lint stuck to the board, not so with the lint-free variety. The cleaner you get the board the less lint there is, but it's difficult to get rid of the last bit with paper towels. But 99.5% of the time the little lint you get left from a good paper towel is nothing to be concerned about unless you're into very high impedance or low leakage scenarios. The cost difference is enough to limit you to doing it when it's really necessary - a roll of paper towel with 150 sheets is £1, a box of AF Safetiss with 200 tissues is around the £8 mark.

[David Hess]

Are you wiping down with a simple cloth or with something else?

I usually use a napkin or paper towel.

If you're prepared to go to the expense lint-free wipes such as AF Safetiss or the ubiquitous KimWipe are the thing to use.

Absolutely, but in practice I use whatever is at hand.

[tooki]

63/37 solder is eutectic, meaning it has no plastic phase whatsoever. So either you’re confusing the two or the 63/37 is fake.

Erm, to be pedantic, no. Eutectic means that there is a sudden, well defined transition from the liquid to the solid phase at a specific characteristic temperature, with no temperature where there is an intermediate interphase state where there is both solid and liquid present (and possibly vapour too). The solid phase, for both eutectic and non-eutectic alloys still exhibits plasticity (and elasticity too for that matter). There's more to eutectics than this (like melting point) if one wants to be truly pedantic but I'm concentrating on the most notable characteristic of a Tin-Lead eutectic and it's the use of the phrase 'plastic phase' here that I find problematic enough to moan about.

You are being pedantic for sure, but you’re also wrong. The plastic phase doesn’t refer to the plasticity of the solid phase. It refers to the slushy “interphase state”. I didn’t invent the term “plastic phase”, it’s the term ordinarily used in the solder industry to refer to said state. So if you’re going to argue with me about it, you’ll also have to argue with the entire industry...

Solder salesmen might call it 'plastic' but I'll bet that their metallurgists don't as 'plastic' has a very specific meaning in metallurgy - it's the region on a stress/strain curve where a material goes from the elastic region to where it exhibits permanent deformation (and ultimately failure) with applied stress. I think that you, and the solder salemen, are getting confused with terminology, or just being lax with it. Non eutectic alloys have what is known as a plastic melting range (behaviour that we're all familiar with, heat metal, it gets soft and plastic) where liquid and solid phases co-exist, but eutectic alloys do not exhibit a plastic melting range (this by the way is why some eutectic alloys are used for set points on some temperature scales). A melting range is not the same thing as a phase which is characterised by a state of matter, solid, liquid or gas (not solid, liquid, gas and plastic) hence the term interphase to describe when a mixture of phases exists. So, plastic melting range I would happily give you, but not plastic phase. Yes, this is now very pedantic but it's right.

Yes, in a phase diagram, it’d be most accurately called a plastic region. Don’t confuse “lax” or “confused” with the understanding that a scientifically precise usage and an everyday usage of a word aren’t the same thing. You will never win someone over by denying or rejecting the existence of the everyday usage, or by calling out someone choosing to use it.

So, what has this thread gained by your tirade on this issue? Nothing. You’ve flexed your brain nuts, we get this. So what? All you accomplished was to bury the actual point I was making to tkamiya. So thanks for that... 

By coincidence, or perhaps not, the most annoyingly pedantic man I have ever known, and used to share a flat with, Clive, was by training and trade a metallurgist. That's where I initially learned most of this mental clutter from.

If you recognize that it’s “clutter” and “annoyingly pedantic”, then why repeat that behavior? Because yeah, it’s absolutely annoying and completely distracted from the actual point I was making: if tkamiya’s “63/37” solder had a slushy state, then it’s not eutectic, meaning it’s fake, or they are confused about which alloy had the slushy state.

[Cerebus]

Yes, in a phase diagram, it’d be most accurately called a plastic region. Don’t confuse “lax” or “confused” with the understanding that a scientifically precise usage and an everyday usage of a word aren’t the same thing. You will never win someone over by denying or rejecting the existence of the everyday usage, or by calling out someone choosing to use it.

So, what has this thread gained by your tirade on this issue? Nothing. You’ve flexed your brain nuts, we get this. So what? All you accomplished was to bury the actual point I was making to tkamiya. So thanks for that... 

I admitted up front, and made it quite explicit I was being pedantic, and quite obviously it was done to attempt to add some precision to what you were saying.

That you choose to treat what I've said as, and I quote, "a tirade" is entirely down to you. You were the one who chose to tell me "You are being pedantic for sure, but you’re also wrong", (did you really expect that not to garner a response) without that I'd have had nothing more to say on the subject and I did stick to the subject, I didn't start attacking you. It would appear to be your desire to be seen as 'the most right' and/or 'the most knowledgable' that pushed this on, and when you're finally proved wrong you start blaming me for derailing the thread and using the word "tirade". Look it up in the dictionary^*, for a linguist you've a poor grasp on the word's meaning as it's quite clear that what I've had to say isn't a tirade, angry by definition . Either that or you are deliberately misrepresenting my behaviour in an attempt to be provocative.

Note that you are the one who has shifted from discussion of the matter at hand, the properties of solder, to attacking my behaviour. You're adding heat, but no light, to the conversation. With all that in mind, I don't intend to engage you any further on the subject beyond this defence of myself, lest I too become guilty of the same. Knowledgeable of my own weaknesses, in particular that I'm likely to pointlessly respond to you if you continue your diatribe, I'm hitting the 'ignore thread' button.

^* tirade | tʌɪˈreɪd, tɪˈreɪd |
noun
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation: a tirade of abuse.
ORIGIN
early 19th century: from French, literally ‘long speech’, from Italian tirata ‘volley’, from tirare ‘to pull’.

[Ian.M]

Please take a timeout or take it to PM.  IMHO both your contributions were valuable but once it gets personal no-one wins, least of all your audience.

[drussell]

I have heard high praise for solder from Multicore but never got to use it myself.  I guess Loctite owns them now.

I've been using up rolls of Multicore 60/40 since the 80s and early 90s when they were only like $9.99 for a 1lb roll, so I'd often just grab another when I was at the electronics store to have extra rolls around, always at hand.    Great stuff.  Love it.  (Especially since that's what I'm most used to  )  I'm getting very low now, though, only a couple partial (very low) rolls left.  I guess I'll have to save up to do a nice big solder buy and re-stock myself. 

... but Kester, Multicore and MG Chemical branded stuff have all always worked satisfactorily for me when I've used them on various jobs.

I would never buy a roll of cheap Chinese solder, though, even if the real stuff is way more than $9.99/lb now.

[drussell]

EGADS!!  Just looked on Digikey and the closest modern model# version to this stuff I've been using is over $50 CAD / roll!

OK, sure, now it's a 500g instead of 454g spool, but WOW! 

I was expecting more like $35, like the last time I looked, but $52 for .032" and $54 for .024"?!   

Sure, with inflation a $10 roll in '92 would be $15-16 now, but I guess I should have stocked up back then as a lead/tin retirement fund. 

[tooki]

Yes, in a phase diagram, it’d be most accurately called a plastic region. Don’t confuse “lax” or “confused” with the understanding that a scientifically precise usage and an everyday usage of a word aren’t the same thing. You will never win someone over by denying or rejecting the existence of the everyday usage, or by calling out someone choosing to use it.

So, what has this thread gained by your tirade on this issue? Nothing. You’ve flexed your brain nuts, we get this. So what? All you accomplished was to bury the actual point I was making to tkamiya. So thanks for that... 

I admitted up front, and made it quite explicit I was being pedantic, and quite obviously it was done to attempt to add some precision to what you were saying.

That you choose to treat what I've said as, and I quote, "a tirade" is entirely down to you. You were the one who chose to tell me "You are being pedantic for sure, but you’re also wrong", (did you really expect that not to garner a response) without that I'd have had nothing more to say on the subject and I did stick to the subject, I didn't start attacking you. It would appear to be your desire to be seen as 'the most right' and/or 'the most knowledgable' that pushed this on, and when you're finally proved wrong you start blaming me for derailing the thread and using the word "tirade". Look it up in the dictionary^*, for a linguist you've a poor grasp on the word's meaning as it's quite clear that what I've had to say isn't a tirade, angry by definition . Either that or you are deliberately misrepresenting my behaviour in an attempt to be provocative.

Note that you are the one who has shifted from discussion of the matter at hand, the properties of solder, to attacking my behaviour. You're adding heat, but no light, to the conversation. With all that in mind, I don't intend to engage you any further on the subject beyond this defence of myself, lest I too become guilty of the same. Knowledgeable of my own weaknesses, in particular that I'm likely to pointlessly respond to you if you continue your diatribe, I'm hitting the 'ignore thread' button.

^* tirade | tʌɪˈreɪd, tɪˈreɪd |
noun
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation: a tirade of abuse.
ORIGIN
early 19th century: from French, literally ‘long speech’, from Italian tirata ‘volley’, from tirare ‘to pull’.

LOL. The first sentence in your reply to me ends in the word “no”. That’s not “adding”, that’s telling me I’m wrong, but a cursory survey of solder terminology confirms my usage. At no point did you actually prove me wrong, you only observed the existence of scientific vs common terminology.

As for lecturing me on language... just shut up, you’re just making a fool of yourself.

[Simon]

Could we just call it quits both of you.

[gmc]

60/40 "Ersin Multicore Solder" is God's own solder and I'll fight anyone who says different. 

Seriously, you won't find Kesler in the UK without parting with an arm or a leg. Good old British "Multicore" brand is the old reliable but is nowadays sold under the Loc-Tite brand.

Just got some of the Loctite brand from a local UK supplier. Ahhh.....perfection. This stuff works great.