Author Topic: Soldering tip melts  (Read 6748 times)

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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Soldering tip melts
« on: February 02, 2019, 12:25:58 pm »
Hi

I bought a butane soldering iron, Goot GP-101S.
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakote/gp-101s/

I had a problem of its tip melting after a few days (not even a week) of regular use. I've attached a picture of it so you guys can have a look and hopefully figure something out. This is my first iron and my first time soldering so I'm pretty much clueless. I've done some Googling on this and found a couple threads but they're not really helping.

The first time it happened I took it back to the store where I bought it and they said they never see something like that and hand me a new one. But my second unit also suffers the same issue after several days of careful use. I just bought a new tip hoping it won't happen again. A new tip cost US$11 and I can't afford to buy one every week.

The device itself is a rebranded Portasol Technic and I heard only good things about them so I must be at fault.
http://www.portasol.com/product-r3.asp?P_ID=333

In case if it would be of any help, this is how I use my iron:
- The package said the iron comes with brass tip, so I wonder if there is any special care for brass tips.
- I use 2.4 mm tip part no. GP-101T-2.4C.
- I solder wires from 20 up to 14 AWG.
- I tin my tip before use, although I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly.
- I use Burnley soldering paste. It states on the package containing zinc chloride
- Not really sure what kind of solder I use, but I guess it's leaded. The solder is shiny.
- I only use damp sponge (not wet) to clean my tip. No steel or brass wool or sandpaper whatsoever.
- The range of heat I use is variable. Sometimes I use maximum heat while sometimes just a little.

Thanks
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 12:52:07 pm »
Well, brass/copper tips will dissolve like that but I've never seen it happen so fast. Possibly the solder you are using has some aggressive flux. Overheating doesn't help either. But, yes, steel tips are long lasting compared to copper alloys.

Any special reason you are using butane rather than electric?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 12:54:44 pm by soldar »
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 12:59:15 pm »
I bought a butane soldering iron, Goot ....

... The device itself is a rebranded ...

"Genuine" Goot actually is very robust soldering iron and its well known for decades, as long its not faked one.

Try buy genuine Goot tip .. and yes, it will be much more expensive.

Offline Ian.M

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 01:05:46 pm »
- I use Burnley soldering paste. It states on the package containing zinc chloride
That's a very aggressive acid flux, and is only suitable for plumbing and sheet metalwork.  It has corroded away the protective iron plating on the tip, and the solder has eroded the tip by dissolving copper from it (and probably zinc as well if its actually brass).  It will also corrode fine copper wires so if you have used it to tin or solder any stranded wire, they will fail sooner rather than later, rotting away under the insulation next to the tinned end.  It also rots PCB tracks.   If you've used it on PCBs, you may be able to salvage them by scrubbing them with very hot (near boiling) water with a trace of detergent added, to remove the acid flux residue.

Throw that flux paste away (or put it with your plumbing tools) and get electronics grade RMA (Rosin) flux, free from zinc, mineral acids, chlorides or other halides.   

You *may* be able to save the tip you are currently using, by taping over the vents to protect the catalyst, and washing the pointed section first with thinners to degrease it then in boiling water with a trace of detergent, scrubbing it with a toothbrush, taking care not to get any thinners or water into the vents and on the catalyst.

Eroded portasol tips can be rebuilt by filing the end flat, and drilling a hole to swage in a thick piece of solid copper wire, which should be very lightly tinned before you swage it in place, and must be a very tight fit in the hole before swaging the sides of the remaining conical part near the tip to retain it.  The hole must not go through into the combustion chamber, so probe down the bore of the shank to get the depth to the solid part of the tip, then calculate the remaining length to the end of the tip and mark your drill bit accordingly.  Tape over the catalyst while drilling and swaging to keep dirt and swarf out.  Once the thick wire is in place, cut it off about 10mm from the rest of the tip, then run it at max heat for five minutes so the tinning on it alloys with the wire and the tip to fuse it in place, then turn it off, file the end to a hoof tip profile and tin it and its ready to use again.  As it doesn't have any plating you'll have to keep it dressed to shape with a fine file as it erodes, and eventually, when it gets too short, drill it out again and repeat the rebuild.   Erosion can be minimised by buying solder with an alloy composition containing 1% to 2% copper. 

« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:16:33 pm by Ian.M »
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 01:05:59 pm »
In case if it would be of any help, this is how I use my iron:
- The package said the iron comes with brass tip, so I wonder if there is any special care for brass tips.
- I use 2.4 mm tip part no. GP-101T-2.4C.
- I solder wires from 20 up to 14 AWG.
- I tin my tip before use, although I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly.
- I use Burnley soldering paste. It states on the package containing zinc chloride
- Not really sure what kind of solder I use, but I guess it's leaded. The solder is shiny.
- I only use damp sponge (not wet) to clean my tip. No steel or brass wool or sandpaper whatsoever.
- The range of heat I use is variable. Sometimes I use maximum heat while sometimes just a little.
Zinc chloride is acid flux, which must never be used for electronics. I strongly suspect it’s what’s eating up the tip. It’s an aggressive acid flux intended for things like plumbing, sheet metal, etc. It’s categorically unsuited to electronics.

Don’t use mystery solder. It could also be contributing.

You need to get yourself proper electronics solder and flux. As you have seen, using the wrong supplies costs you a lot more in the long run.

For the solder: Either rosin or no-clean (I generally prefer rosin), and if it’s just for hobby use, get a quality leaded 63/37 or 62/36/2 (silver-bearing) solder from a quality brand like Kester, MG Chemicals, Multicore/Loctite, Stannol, or Felder.

For the flux: again, rosin or no-clean. You have many options here, between liquids, pastes, and gels.

Do not buy water-soluble electronics flux or flux-core solder: it’s also a mild acid flux and cannot be used as a general-purpose flux.

P.S. If you used the acid flux on any stranded wire, expect it to corrode and fail. (Even in solid wire it can sometimes wick up the insulation and cause corrosion. But in stranded, it’s guaranteed.)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:10:07 pm by tooki »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 01:07:24 pm »
- I use Burnley soldering paste. It states on the package containing zinc chloride
That's a very aggressive acid flux, and is only suitable for plumbing and sheet metalwork. [...]
Heh, GMTA: looks like we wrote much of the same things simultaneously! :)
 
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Offline Ian.M

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 01:13:39 pm »
Yep.   :-DD  At least I added a method for rebuilding Portasol bits (assuming the catalyst is still good which may not be the case if that <F-word> acid plumbers flux spattered onto it).
 
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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2019, 01:25:04 pm »
Well, brass/copper tips will dissolve like that but I've never seen it happen so fast.

The fact that no one has ever seen it before makes it harder to figure out the cause. Anyway the store clerk told me the distributor send my first unit back to Japan for inspection because they never encounter anything like that. I've read reviews of people who've used the same model as me for 10 - 12 years and the iron fails before the tip.

Overheating doesn't help either.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying I should use higher heat? Sorry English is not my mother tongue.

Any special reason you are using butane rather than electric?
Mainly because I don't like having cords get in the way while working. And because they heat so fast, since I usually need to do a quick soldering.
 

Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2019, 01:31:40 pm »
"Genuine" Goot actually is very robust soldering iron and its well known for decades, as long its not faked one.

Try buy genuine Goot tip .. and yes, it will be much more expensive.

I believe mine is genuine. What I mean by rebranded is the unit actually made by Portasol (which is very reputable brand for butane irons. Almost all decent butane irons are made by Portasol and rebadged, including Weller).

The new tip I bought is genuine and cost almost half the price of the iron itself.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2019, 01:38:22 pm »
Plumbers flux totally destroys electronics and iron tips.
Using it on electronics is a common problem encountered by people getting into the hobby.
Usually they have asked around for supplies and someones dad says 'yes, i have some solder you can use'.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 01:41:17 pm by Psi »
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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2019, 01:40:29 pm »
Throw that flux paste away (or put it with your plumbing tools) and get electronics grade RMA (Rosin) flux, free from zinc, mineral acids, chlorides or other halides.

Can I get away without using any paste? Choice of supplies is limited in my small town, and that Burnley is the only choice available. BTW, I bought it from electronics store so I absolutely did not expect it to be something harmful for electronics.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2019, 01:48:02 pm »
Need to sort out terminology. I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to when you say "Paste"
Saying "paste" should always refer to 'solder paste' the stuff that looks like gray toothpaste.
If instead it's clear/yellow then it's either flux gel or liquid flux.


Paste = solder paste, a mix of flux and tiny balls of solder used for soldering surface mount parts with hot air
Flux = a clear/yellow liquid or gel that you can add to joints to help improve soldering
Solder = A metal wire that melts under 450C/842F and has  flux embedded inside it. It comes in two main categories, acid core solder for plumbing and electrical solder for electronics

Adding extra Flux is somewhat optional.
You don't have to add liquid/gel flux as all solder sold for electronic use already contains flux. However flux does improve soldering quality so using it is a good idea if the parts to be soldered are old or not clean. It also make surface mount soldering easier by reducing bridging between pins. 

BTW, I bought it from electronics store so I absolutely did not expect it to be something harmful for electronics.
It is entirely possible that this electronics store does not know they have purchased, and are selling, acid core flux or solder. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:12:17 pm by Psi »
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Offline Ian.M

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2019, 02:03:03 pm »
Paste is a generic term for the composition of a substance.  Solder paste is totally different from flux paste (and from toothpaste  :-DD ).   A paste is non-homogeneous and usually contains finely divided solids.  A gel is homogeneous and is usually more or less transparent.  Paste and gel fluxes are very similar. 

In electronics, 'paste' on its own *usually* refers to solder paste, but the first time you mention it in any document or discussion, you should always use the full name to avoid ambiguity.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:07:17 pm by Ian.M »
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2019, 02:07:14 pm »
Just trying to avoid confusion.
I totally agree that the definition of the word 'paste' just describes the density of a liquid.
However i think almost all engineers will assume 'solder paste' if someone just says 'paste'. Or says that they applied some paste.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:19:18 pm by Psi »
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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2019, 02:18:48 pm »
For the solder: Either rosin or no-clean (I generally prefer rosin), and if it’s just for hobby use, get a quality leaded 63/37 or 62/36/2 (silver-bearing) solder from a quality brand like Kester, MG Chemicals, Multicore/Loctite, Stannol, or Felder.

Yeah my choices here is pretty limited. Only 3 kind of solders are available to me:
1. Locally made with no label of information. This one produces shiny joint which I learn is good.
2. Leaded 60/40 rosin core. This one produces dull/matte finish which I learn indicates poor quality leaded solder
3. Goot lead free. I'm uncertain of the details because I never check it out since I always avoid lead free solder after watching YouTube and reading forums saying bad things about them.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2019, 02:19:32 pm »
Part of the problem here is that 'Burnley Soldering Paste' has an odd name from an electronics industry perspective.
The plumbing industry have their own terminology which is different to electronics.
They are calling their product soldering paste when it's really flux paste, and solder paste in electronics is something completely different.
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Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2019, 02:23:33 pm »
For the solder: Either rosin or no-clean (I generally prefer rosin), and if it’s just for hobby use, get a quality leaded 63/37 or 62/36/2 (silver-bearing) solder from a quality brand like Kester, MG Chemicals, Multicore/Loctite, Stannol, or Felder.

Yeah my choices here is pretty limited. Only 3 kind of solders are available to me:
1. Locally made with no label of information. This one produces shiny joint which I learn is good.
2. Leaded 60/40 rosin core. This one produces dull/matte finish which I learn indicates poor quality leaded solder
3. Goot lead free. I'm uncertain of the details because I never check it out since I always avoid lead free solder after watching YouTube and reading forums saying bad things about them.

From your list there i would go with 2. leaded 60/40 rosin core. That is pretty standard solder for electronics use.
I'm not sure why you are getting a dull finish with it. Sometimes very old or crap quality 60/40 can make dull joints.
Or maybe because you tried the acid core stuff and that gave you a super glossy finish and you're now comparing everything to that.
I would expect acid core to give a really nice gloss since it is a very powerful flux

If you make a joint with some 60/40 rosin and post a photo maybe we can tell you if its good or not.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:29:34 pm by Psi »
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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2019, 02:25:11 pm »
Need to sort out terminology. I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to when you say "Paste"
Saying "paste" should always refer to 'solder paste' the stuff that looks like gray toothpaste.
If instead it's clear/yellow then it's either flux gel or liquid flux.


Paste = solder paste, a mix of flux and tiny balls of solder used for soldering surface mount parts with hot air
Flux = a clear/yellow liquid or gel that you can add to joints to help improve soldering
Solder = A metal wire that melts under 450C/842F and has  flux embedded inside it. It comes in two main categories, acid core solder for plumbing and electrical solder for electronics.

Thanks. Really helpful.
 

Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2019, 02:29:19 pm »
I'm not sure why you are getting dull finish with it.
Maybe you tried the acid core and that gave you a super glossy finish and are comparing it to that.
I would expect acid core to give a really nice gloss as it is a very powerful flux
I only use it a couple of times. When my first unit broke, I thought the solder I use was to blame so buy this one. After I saw the dull finish I stopped using it for fear of it damaging my tip.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2019, 02:35:18 pm »
If your 60/40 says "Rosin" on it then its safe to use.
It may/may-not be the best quality solder but it shouldn't damage your iron tip.

Put the "Burnley soldering paste" (flux) somewhere away from electronics. Anything electronic related that it touches will be damaged, even after a single exposure. Think of it like acid, anything it touches will be eaten away.
Or return it to the shop and tell them its acid flux. If the shop is for electronics only and doesn't sell plumbing supplies then they may have ordered it by mistake
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 02:37:35 pm by Psi »
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Offline mariush

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2019, 02:35:56 pm »
Yeah my choices here is pretty limited. Only 3 kind of solders are available to me:
1. Locally made with no label of information. This one produces shiny joint which I learn is good.
2. Leaded 60/40 rosin core. This one produces dull/matte finish which I learn indicates poor quality leaded solder
3. Goot lead free. I'm uncertain of the details because I never check it out since I always avoid lead free solder after watching YouTube and reading forums saying bad things about them.

Shiny means that it has lead in it.  Lead free solder typically leaves dull / matte finish.
So most likely that Leaded 60/40 solder is actually lead free solder with a fake label, or a leaded solder with a bad chemical composition (maybe 40/60 or made out of recycled solder?)

You don't say where you are... i suspect Malaysia from searching for "Burnley" in Google.

Anyway, can't you order things online? There are distributors which have reasonable shipping costs

See if there's a Farnell.com / Newark.com site for your country (or if there's distributors in your country) : https://www.farnell.com/
Same for RS-Components :  http://www.rs-online.com/

TME.EU may be worth checking out.
They're a Polish (EU) company which has very good prices for Liquid / Gel fluxes .. the ones made by AG Thermopasty are decent : https://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/#id_category=100484&page=1&s_field=accuracy&s_order=DESC
I wouldn't mind paying even 20$ for shipping, when I can buy a 500ml bottle of no-clean liquid flux for 10$  (10-20ml flux pens are usually that much) ... that would last you a long time.
They also have solder wire, but they only stock lead free solder these days (Stannol is a good brand in their catalogue).
 
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2019, 02:40:29 pm »
Shiny means that it has lead in it.  Lead free solder typically leaves dull / matte finish.
So most likely that Leaded 60/40 solder is actually lead free solder with a fake label, or a leaded solder with a bad chemical composition (maybe 40/60 or made out of recycled solder?)

Yep, could definitely be fake leaded that's actually lead-free.
Flux will also make a joint shiny though, It allows the metal to flow nicely so that it solidifies into a totally smooth reflective finish.
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Offline KeosintalTopic starter

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2019, 03:06:45 pm »
So most likely that Leaded 60/40 solder is actually lead free solder with a fake label?
Might be, but I don't see the point of them doing that. And I thought lead free is more expensive? I can't tell the price difference though. The local brand and the 60/40 are sold in different weight packs and the local ones didnt even label the net weight so it's tricky to tell.

You don't say where you are... i suspect Malaysia from searching for "Burnley" in Google.
Good guess. And you're creeping me out now because my Google search result of Burnley didn't show Malaysian links.

Anyway, can't you order things online?
I can't for different reasons.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2019, 03:07:26 pm »
Plumbers flux totally destroys electronics and iron tips.

My last house had solar collectors with a holding tank in the basement and some electronics which controlled the pump and other things. One day it stopped working. After much troubleshooting I found out that, during installation work, some plumber's flux had dripped into the electronics. It took some time to do its work but by now the PCB was totally corroded.
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Offline soldar

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Re: Soldering tip melts
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2019, 03:13:21 pm »
- I use Burnley soldering paste. It states on the package containing zinc chloride
That's a very aggressive acid flux, and is only suitable for plumbing and sheet metalwork.   

 I did not know the brand but searching online shows they make soldering paste for electronics so it depends on what he got.
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