Author Topic: Something to see my signals with?  (Read 3721 times)

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Offline Eka

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2018, 06:34:08 pm »
Age is mentioned in the last post.

I was just remembering I started my first company at his age. Ended up an emancipated minor less than two years later because between that and my art sales I was making more than the parents were.
 

Offline JS

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2018, 06:57:52 pm »
Age is mentioned in the last post.

I was just remembering I started my first company at his age. Ended up an emancipated minor less than two years later because between that and my art sales I was making more than the parents were.
I was going to mention than with this skills he could start fixing some things and make some money in a short time, then things will keep getting easier to stay in electronics and getting better at it.

JS
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline Eka

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2018, 08:04:43 pm »
Age is mentioned in the last post.

I was just remembering I started my first company at his age. Ended up an emancipated minor less than two years later because between that and my art sales I was making more than the parents were.
I was going to mention than with this skills he could start fixing some things and make some money in a short time, then things will keep getting easier to stay in electronics and getting better at it.

JS
That is a very good possibility. I think I should bring in Louis Rossmann as a role model. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w It is interesting some of the adversities he had to overcome while growing up. He talks about them in some of his videos, but he kept trying and now he has a thriving business and a bunch of employees.
 

Offline JS

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2018, 08:11:49 pm »
That is a very good possibility. I think I should bring in Louis Rossmann as a role model. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w It is interesting some of the adversities he had to overcome while growing up. He talks about them in some of his videos, but he kept trying and now he has a thriving business and a bunch of employees.
  What I admire is the few tools he uses, a microscope, a DMM, soldering tools (iron and air) and stop counting, pliers and misc but no fancy stuff at all. And that's all he needs for the repairs, I haven't seen him using a scope, someone sent him an expensive thermal camera and he compared it with a bottle of isopropyl  :-DD
  I think one of the most valuable tools he has are the database of circuits (PCB+SCH), but that's very specific to what he mostly does and in some cases he didn't even have that.

JS
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline Karlo_Moharic

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2018, 08:54:46 pm »
OK , so from what I understand , this is a 13 year old kid. My advice to him would be to give it a couple more years before getting into
practical application of electronics. The most important part of electronics is really the math and physics , so keep on learning.

Arduinos and similar kits are fun but they don't really teach you electronics.

Oscilloscope is just a paperweight if you don't have a good theoretical foundation.
 

Offline JS

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2018, 09:08:13 pm »
OK , so from what I understand , this is a 13 year old kid. My advice to him would be to give it a couple more years before getting into
practical application of electronics. The most important part of electronics is really the math and physics , so keep on learning.

Arduinos and similar kits are fun but they don't really teach you electronics.

Oscilloscope is just a paperweight if you don't have a good theoretical foundation.
I couldn't disagree more with you, I started at about 12, at 15 I was dealing with tube circuits and designing my own modifications. A scope like he's trying to get will be a great tool to check the precense of signals at least and start looking better what he's doing. Such simple aproaches wasn't available that easy when I was his age, but darn I would have tried it!

JS

If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2018, 10:17:32 pm »
I agree, playing with Arduinos doesn't normally lead you to profound electronic knowledge; that really requires working with transistors, opamps and all what you can do with them in the analog sphere.

Next to my tic for chemistry at about the same age, I started with electronics at maybe 11-12. I saved my money for a 2000 count DMM, no chance for a scope - this I did not even get to use at the radio/tv repair-workshop, where I often hung out on my schoolfree afternoons. That was also, where I built my first transistor detector. I cannot say, that I understood every aspect of the circuits I built at that age, but I've always been the type for learning by doing - and really, I don't see, why that should be different these days.

The curiousity to understand things and how they work on their inside, has its origin in getting in touch with them first.
 

Offline Karlo_Moharic

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2018, 04:15:17 am »
I'm not saying that he shouldn't be curious and play with batteries ,  arduinos , dc motors, ...ect (I did that when I was his age , I'm 25 so not that long ago) , but at his age he is not going to understand how to properly measure different voltages (specialy with a scope) or for that matter what a waveform on screen actually represent.

I understand that some of the older members on this forum , started by playing with tube equipment and I respect that , but electronics has advanced quite a bit from that. These days most of the stuff is in discrete packages or in SMD form. Not really meant to be repaired.

If he buys himselfe a scope , for him it's most likely  going to be a fancy toy , so I'm just trying to tell him that at his age he should really be focusing on his school.

I know that is boring but companies these days are not really looking for guys with great soldering skills  or guys that build circuits in their garage (they have Chinese for that  :)). If he wishes to make electronics his career , he is gonna have to do it the hard way , by getting college degree.
 

Offline JS

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2018, 04:52:41 am »
I'm not saying that he shouldn't be curious and play with batteries ,  arduinos , dc motors, ...ect (I did that when I was his age , I'm 25 so not that long ago) , but at his age he is not going to understand how to properly measure different voltages (specialy with a scope) or for that matter what a waveform on screen actually represent.

I understand that some of the older members on this forum , started by playing with tube equipment and I respect that , but electronics has advanced quite a bit from that. These days most of the stuff is in discrete packages or in SMD form. Not really meant to be repaired.

If he buys himselfe a scope , for him it's most likely  going to be a fancy toy , so I'm just trying to tell him that at his age he should really be focusing on his school.

I know that is boring but companies these days are not really looking for guys with great soldering skills  or guys that build circuits in their garage (they have Chinese for that  :)). If he wishes to make electronics his career , he is gonna have to do it the hard way , by getting college degree.
  I think you should think it backwards. If he starts playing with a $10 scope now, like what he's planning, and even better, if he puts something together by himself, by the time he has your age (or mine FWIW, I'm 28) he will dominate scopes if he keeps at this. He's planning to use an arduino to capture some data, and display it somehow, add some attenuator at the input, if you want, call it a scope.

  And no, when I was his age ┬ÁC were already a thing and tubes already were museum pieces, but as I'm a guitar player with 15yo I built a tube amp for my self with the help of a friend, and right after finishing it disassembled completely and assembled it again with some mods but this time alone.

  Coming back to "you have to think it backwards", if he starts soldering components and building simple stuff now, and getting things to work by intuition, he will develop a skill that's very hard to develop the other way around, and that's the feel of a ball park, eye ball, rule of thumb or what you wanna call it. Takes a lot of experience to get that, and once you are in the university you put all your time in theory, for the time you finish you have to take the calculator out to choose a base resistor for a single transistor amplifier. If you had to do it by guess before learning the theory, and then you learn the theory that gets much easier. That's my experience, and my surrounding fellows who needed to take the calculator out to guess a few polarization resistors to get a single transistor to work.

  SMD packages are totally solderable, if he learns to solder now, at you age will make BGAs with a hot knife on the stove. And again we should call Rossmann who's been mentioned here, and in some other topics, you can repair the smallest stuff around, if for the owner it's worth paying a few hundred bux for your work. I charged that for a PCB swap last week, could got more for myself and less for the PCB manufacturer if I repaired the thing but I don't have the tooling, and the costumer would payed less, I desperately need a hot soldering station!
  I'm just putting together a pro lab, going to get some gear tomorrow I bought online but it will pay for itself in a few jobs I get, aside for my day job from where I'm taking the money to buy the things.

@Eka: sorry, I messed names...
@Cody: Don't let people take you down on this, it will become an income before you think! And for your situation I know that's a good thing, I'm not telling quit school and put yourself to this but you could be repairing some stuff (like swap TV caps) maybe in a year and get money back in your spare time! Family, neighbors, etc. will be your first costumers. If you are known for knowing electronics you will start getting calls for really simple stuff and people will be more than willing to pay for your time. Someone could call you just to connect his new media center!

JS
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 01:32:53 pm by JS »
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline Eka

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2018, 06:51:03 am »
OK , so from what I understand , this is a 13 year old kid. My advice to him would be to give it a couple more years before getting into
practical application of electronics. The most important part of electronics is really the math and physics , so keep on learning.

Arduinos and similar kits are fun but they don't really teach you electronics.

Oscilloscope is just a paperweight if you don't have a good theoretical foundation.
He can handle it. Back in the '70s when I was 8 or 9 my dad gave me the task of repairing an old dead computer that he got surplus from work for scrap metal prices. I knew nothing about digital logic, let alone electronics. My dad knew house wiring, not electronic circuit design. The most important thing is we knew somebody had made it, so the knowledge to make and repair it was out there somewhere. We just had to find or rediscover it. With some advice on what topics to read up on, and a practical debugging demo from a physicist who lived down the block, I had the computer fully operational in a few months. Dad only ordered the parts. Within a few years I'd fully rebuilt it using TTL logic chips with SRAMS for the memory to replace the resistor transistor logic, and core memory. I also gave it a PROM burner, and a bank switchable PROM memory bank where I could store programs in. The diagnostic equipment I used was nothing more complex than LEDs with resistors to set their current. I placed them at various points so I could observe the logic circuits as they operated, and find the dead components. Modern computers lack sufficient blinky lights.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be curious and play with batteries ,  arduinos , dc motors, ...ect (I did that when I was his age , I'm 25 so not that long ago) , but at his age he is not going to understand how to properly measure different voltages (specialy with a scope) or for that matter what a waveform on screen actually represent.

I understand that some of the older members on this forum , started by playing with tube equipment and I respect that , but electronics has advanced quite a bit from that. These days most of the stuff is in discrete packages or in SMD form. Not really meant to be repaired.

If he buys himselfe a scope , for him it's most likely  going to be a fancy toy , so I'm just trying to tell him that at his age he should really be focusing on his school.

I know that is boring but companies these days are not really looking for guys with great soldering skills  or guys that build circuits in their garage (they have Chinese for that  :)). If he wishes to make electronics his career , he is gonna have to do it the hard way , by getting college degree.
I don't see why he can't understand what voltages and oscilloscope plots mean. I was crunching timing charts for a redesign of a CPU from resistor transistor logic to TTL logic at 10. That allowed me to take a reference 68000 design and change it allow it to run off of batteries for a couple hours when I was 16.

Soldering SMD is easy with the right tools, and they are much cheaper than they were two decades ago when I first used SMD parts in my designs. I've done lots of surface mount work with a 13 watt soldering iron, and a toaster oven with a home made PID temperature controller.

 

Offline rjp

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2018, 08:12:57 am »
in the vast array of electronics and computer layers between learning javascript inside a web browser , all the way down to strapping a magnet to your forehead and manually tapping out the bits against a  wall.

arduino is a perfectly sensible place to start that will teach you more than it hides.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:15:20 am by rjp »
 
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Offline Cody Turner OKC

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2018, 06:04:38 pm »
Hi guys, I have been offline for a few days, I will respond to all of your responses in about 3 hours once i walk home from the local library, its a long walk so I need to start now, i wanted to get some books, and I don t get much time on these librarys computer, so I am not ignoring everything! will see you guys soon thanks you
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2018, 10:29:24 pm »
School is important, but it's also the minimum required. Going out and discovering how things work for yourself is what ends up getting you an interesting job and fun projects, rather than mundane middle of the road employment. You will be much more versatile. Google doesn't hire people who strictly followed the curriculum. Few of the fun employers do.

It's ridiculous to say that you won't understand when you're young. Cody has gotten further with his troubleshooting than most adults would with or without help. I started programming at 12 and even though I committed every programming atrocity known to man, I also learnt many lessons that still serve me today. Besides, it's fun. I remember the excitement of compiling the first program. A world of possibilities had just opened!
 

Online Mario87

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2018, 11:17:32 am »
Get yourself a DSO 150 Oscilloscope. Only $21 for the DIY version you solder yourself or $27 for the ready to go version. You can get a probe for $5 and a 9v PSU for $4, it comes with crocodile clips instead of a proper probe in the box, so I would get a probe for the sake of $4.

For everything it will be $30 for the DIY version or $36 for the ready to go version.

DIY Version..... https://www.banggood.com/Orignal-JYE-Tech-DS0150-15001K-DSO-SHELL-DIY-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-With-Housing-p-1093865.html?rmmds=search

Ready Assembled Version.... https://www.banggood.com/Original-JYE-Tech-Assembled-DSO-SHELL-DSO150-Digital-Oscilloscope-Module-9V-p-1211151.html?rmmds=search

Probe.... https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-P6100-Oscilloscope-100MHz-PKCATI-BNC-Clip-Probes-Clip-Cable-p-1157611.html?rmmds=detail-top-buytogether-auto

9v PSU.... https://www.banggood.com/Dfg-p-953414.html?rmmds=search

It won't be spectacular, but for the price it will be better than the arduino for scoping small circuits and you can even make it portable if you add a 9v battery which could be a a side project for you.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2018, 11:23:03 am »
Get yourself a DSO 150 Oscilloscope. Only $21 for the DIY version you solder yourself or $27 for the ready to go version. You can get a probe for $5 and a 9v PSU for $4, it comes with crocodile clips instead of a proper probe in the box, so I would get a probe for the sake of $4.

For everything it will be $30 for the DIY version or $36 for the ready to go version.

DIY Version..... https://www.banggood.com/Orignal-JYE-Tech-DS0150-15001K-DSO-SHELL-DIY-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-With-Housing-p-1093865.html?rmmds=search

Ready Assembled Version.... https://www.banggood.com/Original-JYE-Tech-Assembled-DSO-SHELL-DSO150-Digital-Oscilloscope-Module-9V-p-1211151.html?rmmds=search

Probe.... https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-P6100-Oscilloscope-100MHz-PKCATI-BNC-Clip-Probes-Clip-Cable-p-1157611.html?rmmds=detail-top-buytogether-auto

9v PSU.... https://www.banggood.com/Dfg-p-953414.html?rmmds=search

It won't be spectacular, but for the price it will be better than the arduino for scoping small circuits and you can even make it portable if you add a 9v battery which could be a a side project for you.
Please read the post linked below. :)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/something-to-see-my-signals-with/msg1787081/#msg1787081
 

Offline HB9EVI

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2018, 11:30:08 am »
Not to talk about, how lousy those "DSOs" really are; they aren't worth the bucks the cost - it's just a toy without practical use.

I think, we already talked about that in another thread; the much idea is to get an old CRO somewhere from the local market; even just a 10MHz version is doing a tousand times better job than those cheapie pocket-DSOs
 

Offline Johnboy

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2018, 01:40:55 pm »
Cody, I recently acquired a Tektronix 310 in working condition that I'm willing to donate to your school's science department. It's only 4 MHz, and it's ancient, but it would allow you to mess around with a very limited scope under some supervision. Ask your science teacher if the school would like to have it, and if they do, you can PM me the school's contact info and I'll figure out how to get it there. Be advised, though, that they may not want it.
 

Online Mario87

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2018, 01:45:46 pm »
Please read the post linked below. :)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/something-to-see-my-signals-with/msg1787081/#msg1787081

My bad, didn't see that he couldn't order online. However looking through the old posts his teachers seem to be willing to help (lending him a laptop, etc). So maybe they would be willing to order stuff for him which is educational if he can give them the cash for the items??

Not to talk about, how lousy those "DSOs" really are; they aren't worth the bucks the cost - it's just a toy without practical use.

I think, we already talked about that in another thread; the much idea is to get an old CRO somewhere from the local market; even just a 10MHz version is doing a tousand times better job than those cheapie pocket-DSOs

Those pocket DSO's are not great, I'll admit, but it should work better than the Arduino he was originally planning to use and will even be suitable to show him the signals present on any Arduino projects he builds. Also, the old CRO's weigh about a metric ton, not something a 13 year old lad could easily lug about or store. The pocket DSO will probably work just good enough for his needs at the moment, but is in no way, shape or form a replacement for a proper scope (be it CRO or DSO).
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 01:47:40 pm by Mario87 »
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2018, 01:48:08 pm »
I think it is totally dependent on the youngster as to what age is viable. If he has the interest and perseverance he will only be limited by his math skills, which are probably better than mine. Feed a fertile mind. If he is only interested in shinny toys, that will be obvious soon enough. With access to a computer he can tinker in LTSpice and look at the wave forms. That and a DMM will do him for now if he has the hunger to learn.
 

Offline Cody Turner OKC

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2018, 02:03:22 pm »
Hi guys, i am sorry for the laate response. I have read all of the responses and thank you guys so much for alll the info and ideas! I didnt even know about those DSO thingies they seem very cool, but they are really expensive at the same time, as I said in my post I am building little op amp circuits, and fixing things to learn and just ttrying to learn and gain expriance and wanted something i could afford to see my signals with, i dont think i should "focus on school and not on playing with electronics" i am in 7th grade .... I have a A in every single class I take and breeze through everythinng, because of my tinkering with electronics actually, i have spent hundreds of hours researching reaading up more and more and more because of the curiosity to learn and be able to do more, I could barely read before i started and now i can read incredibly fast, but anyways just wanted to get that out for the guy who was saying that.

to Johnboy, thank you very much for your kind offer, but I am in 7th grade, in science I am "learning" almost embarassingly simple stuff haha, we have no test instruments at all, we do no experiments etc, very basic bookwork.. trust me I cant wait until high school where i can get into some advance classes and start to have stuff to challenge me to learn and study, its so exciting! but I have almost 2 more years to go unfortunatly!

and abraxa, thanks for the info on the hackerspaces, i didnt know about them! unnfortunatly they all closed about 6 years go except one which costs 50$ a week to have acces or go to any meetings, and is about 6 miles away, which would be worth it for the cool stuff but it just costs way to much! I looked them all up and one after another they were like permanetly closed , darn!

oh yeah and in JS and the other posts about soldering, I have been working on surface mount for months now and am getting pretty good at it, since i scavenge all my parts from trash teardowns i find i had to learn, my soldering iron thats really a woodworking burning tool is pretty rough and limits me in a lot of aspects but i find a way and have only once destroyed a part with it, thanks for al the nice things you guys
 

Offline abraxa

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2018, 05:05:13 am »
Is there someone near OKC who can meet Cody Turner in person? He sent me a rather worrying PM and I'm not sure what to do. I'm halfway across the globe. He appears to be in urgent need of assistance from an adult and I'd also like to make sure he's not an adult pretending to be a child in need in order to obtain money and/or items for free. (No offense Cody but it's something that must unfortunately be considered these days.)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 05:42:57 am by abraxa »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2018, 03:15:46 pm »
Is there someone near OKC who can meet Cody Turner in person? He sent me a rather worrying PM and I'm not sure what to do. I'm halfway across the globe. He appears to be in urgent need of assistance from an adult and I'd also like to make sure he's not an adult pretending to be a child in need in order to obtain money and/or items for free. (No offense Cody but it's something that must unfortunately be considered these days.)
It might pay to contact Dave. He's halfway accross the globe too, but he'll be able to verify some of the details and can maybe also coordinate consequent actions.
 

Offline Cody Turner OKC

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2018, 03:55:57 pm »
Is there someone near OKC who can meet Cody Turner in person? He sent me a rather worrying PM and I'm not sure what to do. I'm halfway across the globe. He appears to be in urgent need of assistance from an adult and I'd also like to make sure he's not an adult pretending to be a child in need in order to obtain money and/or items for free. (No offense Cody but it's something that must unfortunately be considered these days.)
It might pay to contact Dave. He's halfway accross the globe too, but he'll be able to verify some of the details and can maybe also coordinate consequent actions.


Hi Mr. Scram, I talked to abraxa and gave him my info to talk and explain I had just typed my messege fast and think that he misunderstood it, i was NOT asking for money or items or anything by any means, so everything is all okay now, i told him that i had 20$ on pay pal and asked if he knew if there was a way to withdraw it like through the mail or anything, and that it wasnt really a appropriate forum post as has nothing to do with electronics and since he is the only one that has messaged with me i just asked him!
 

Offline Eka

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2018, 11:58:33 am »
is it $20 or $44
is it 13yo or is it much older?
Starving or not?
Three hours to walk from the library home? Please, in my poor health I could have walked from the closest university one to the gi       ven address in less than 2 hours. There are other libraries that are closer.

I contacted abraxa after he asked for help because I'm significantly closer to Cody. At this point I'd just assumed OKC stood for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA. It matches information in Cody's profile. I suggested a few ways of sending food because of the desperate situation Cody told abraxa Cody was in. He provided some information Cody told him. I did a bit of google search checking of public records. I easily found public records of a Cody Turner at the shipping address given, but not close to 13 years old. I found older adults who either still live at the address, or did at one time that share the Turner last name, and who's ages are consistent with having an offspring who's age could easily have been the age of the Cody I found. There were other details I found that made me sure the Cody I found tied to that address was their offspring.

Cody, if you are really needing food, do you realize you are able to go to food banks and get free food?
 

Online Peabody

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Re: Something to see my signals with?
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2018, 02:44:56 pm »
I Googled Oklahoma City Child Protective Services, and found this:

"If you believe a child is being abused or neglected, you have a legal responsibility to report it. Reports can be made at any time to the DHS Abuse and Neglect Hotline at 1-800-522-3511. The hotline is available 24 hours-a-day, 7 days-a-week."

I haven't followed all of this, and may be over-interpreting what's been posted publicly, but maybe it's time that someone who has had direct contact with him and has his address will consider making that call.  If he's saying his parents have disappeared, and he has no relatives or others he can stay with in Oklahoma City, then CPS probably needs to be involved.

 
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