Author Topic: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal  (Read 1821 times)

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Offline sairfan1

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Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« on: August 10, 2018, 04:02:53 pm »
Hi please refer to attached image, i bought these crimp spade terminal from ebay i want to know best cripping tool (or what else its called) to punch wires in it.

While searching on ebay/aliexpress i found losts of tools but not sure which one is best suitable. (if possible please share link)

thanks

 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 04:14:55 pm »
Search for "ratcheting terminal crimping tool"
 

Offline drussell

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 05:02:15 pm »
Yes on the ratcheting style...

Even a cheap ratcheting one beats the pants off the regular plier-style crimpers.

For general purpose work, any decent one that handles the red, blue and yellow size connectors will suffice for the vast majority of uses.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 06:12:57 pm »
Forget crimping tools. Those cheap insulated terminals can only be squeezed with flat pliers (and it'll make a lousy connection).

You need to get a collection of uninsulated spade connectors plus loose insulation sleeves (or heat shrink tube). THEN you can use a ratcheting crimp tool and make quality connections.

Give your connector collection to someone you don't like.

You need connectors and a tool like this:

« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 06:15:17 pm by Benta »
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 06:57:46 pm »
Every crimp tool series has dies for insulated terminals. For instance, Platinum Tools 17007C. The key is to understand the difference between "PIDG" insulated terminals, as supplied by AMP and T&B, and the generic version, since they require different dies.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 07:51:29 pm »
Forget crimping tools. Those cheap insulated terminals can only be squeezed with flat pliers (and it'll make a lousy connection).

You need to get a collection of uninsulated spade connectors plus loose insulation sleeves (or heat shrink tube). THEN you can use a ratcheting crimp tool and make quality connections.

Give your connector collection to someone you don't like.

You need connectors and a tool like this:



Insulated terminals work just fine, but some of the cheapest no-brand ones are crappy.
And flat pliers is definitely wrong tool for the insulated terminals.

Whatever you use its good idea to verify the wire+terminal+plier combo with pull-out force test.

Some example numbers can be found for example here:
https://www.andilog.com/How-to-check-crimp-terminals-on-wires.html

or this, EN standards are lot less demanding:
http://www.microstar.hr/special_rail/materijali/WAGO_mechanical_tests.pdf
 

Offline pigrew

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 08:13:26 pm »
I bought the "Tool Aid SGT18980" crimper set and it works acceptable for my uses. It's been mentioned on other threads, if you search for it. It's not the best, but works decently for all the generic unbranded contacts.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 08:30:29 pm »
mzzj, the connectors you link to are NOT spade connectors, but cable ferrules. A different thing altogether.

The insulated spade connectors are total cr*p and will not hold a cable no matter how you press/crimp it. It will pull right out.

The spade connectors in my picture will crimp both conductor and isolation sheath with two tabs for each. It's stronger and more durable than a solder connection. This type has been used for decades in automotive and still works... provided you have the right tool.

Phew! Sorry, but I just hate low-quality stuff.

EDIT: pigrew, your tool is fine, I like it. I'm ranting about the connectors.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 08:40:55 pm by Benta »
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 09:19:42 pm »
I'm another proponent of buying decent terminals to start with, whether they be insulated, non-insulated w/seam (brazed/welded seams are best), open-barrel, and so on. Decent tooling is preferred as well, but I find the terminal is more important. For example, you can get an inexpensive ratcheting crimper into proper adjustment, and still make a good connection with a decent terminal (will pass a pull force test). Yet the best tooling may not be able to get a cheap terminal into compliance.

Oh, and cheap terminals may be made of too thin a material, the wrong material, thus won't meet any safety specs whatsoever. Even if you can get it to pass a pull force test. Figure out your needs and gamble if you like. YMMV, but I don't want to chance it on a $0.10 - $0.25 terminal.

Look around, you don't have to pay a fortune for good terminals (compare brands for like terminals). Molex is one example where you get a better cost/performance ratio over say Panduit or Thomas&Betts. Cost wise, un-insulated types will come in cheaper per terminal as a general rule, and adding some heat shrink (adhesive lined in particular), will add both insulation as well as strain relief. As per what to use where, that all depends on the application.

Insulated terminals for example have absolutely no place in automotive or marine applications, as they're made for fixed wiring installations (i.e. buildings). Open barrel tend to be made for high vibration environments such as automotive applications. And it goes on and on.

OP: as to your original question, all you need is a ratcheting crimper with red, blue, and yellow die nests.

 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 08:57:57 am »

Insulated terminals for example have absolutely no place in automotive or marine applications, as they're made for fixed wiring installations (i.e. buildings). Open barrel tend to be made for high vibration environments such as automotive applications. And it goes on and on.


That is pretty wide statement.  :)
Open barrel is just the cheapest of them all and best suited for automated manufacturing.  (and there is hardly any need for insulated single terminals in automotive use)
Brazed or twin sleeve provides much better crimping force.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 09:47:43 am »

The insulated spade connectors are total cr*p and will not hold a cable no matter how you press/crimp it. It will pull right out.


Time to go full autistic and do unofficial pull-out force test:



1,5mm^2 multi-stranded copper cable, inexpensive crimp tool from local auto store https://www.biltema.fi/tyokalut/kasityokalut/pihdit/liitinpihdit/kaapelikenkapihdit-2000037081  (Sorry, no German Klauke crimpers or terminals in my price range)

First connector: inexpensive PVC? insulated blue sleeve ring terminal from local junk store, marked K.S. so probably this one: http://www.ksterminals.com.tw/eng_products_list.asp?P=1&FKindNO=F04&SKindNO=S03
(non-brazed, non-dual sleeve)

pull out force: 79 lbs , wire breaks before pulling out

Second exemplar: red Nylon insulated female spade connector, no markings/brand but this is probably also K.S or (Swedish Abiko as they are very common around here):
(double copper/brass sleeve construction)

pull out force: 68 lbs, wire pulls out with couple of broken strands left in the connector.

Both results exceed UL - 486 A, UL - 486 C - UL - 310, MIL-T-7928,  and MIL-DTL-22520G Military Class 2- Military Approved Terminals pull-out force requirements.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 09:54:51 am by mzzj »
 
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Offline cs.dk

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 06:19:25 am »
I love when people get their tools and do some tests :-+

I've used those insulated crimp terminals to support a lamp in my workshop, as that was what i have at hand. The first three pulled out, they were from a cheap assortment box. Tried with a Duraseal, it is near impossible to pull out. All were crimped with a Knipex ratcheting crimper. There must be some quality differences between them.

They do actually support some weight, see attached photo.
 
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Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 02:12:27 pm »
Tried with a Duraseal, it is near impossible to pull out. All were crimped with a Knipex ratcheting crimper. There must be some quality differences between them.

They are not all definitely equal. For the sake of completeness I dig out some crappy blade connectors that I haven't used because they seemed to come off easily.

Red female spade from unnamed assortement box that I bought 20 years ago: 22lbs
red female spade K.S. brand: 51lbs
(previously tested dual-sleeve Abiko 68lbs)
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 03:45:50 pm »
mzzj, that lines up with my experience, which is why I swore off the isolated types and opted for the non-isolated with the proper crimp tool.
Apparently you CAN get quality isolated connectors. Problem is only, that if you go to the DIY store, you only get the crappy types.

I accept your experiment, but will stay with the non-isolated, having spent money on the tools.
 
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Offline mzzj

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 04:06:11 pm »

Apparently you CAN get quality isolated connectors. Problem is only, that if you go to the DIY store, you only get the crappy types.

Seem to be luck of draw what you get from DIY stores.
All of my connectors are from DIY stores but lately I have bought only the better looking ones (thick metal sleeves or dual metal sleeve) Pretty sure you can get also crappy uninsulated ones for that matter...
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 11:26:51 pm »

Insulated terminals for example have absolutely no place in automotive or marine applications, as they're made for fixed wiring installations (i.e. buildings). Open barrel tend to be made for high vibration environments such as automotive applications. And it goes on and on.


That is pretty wide statement.  :)
Not really. Insulated terminals like those in the OP aren't suited for high vibration environments such as automotive applications.  ;D Vibration aside, the complete lack of any seal from the elements also means they're horrible for marine use.

I know they get used a lot for auto use as that's what parts stores carry, but it's not suited for that particular application. They're just cheap and easy.
 

Offline Jwillis

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 11:53:51 pm »

Insulated terminals for example have absolutely no place in automotive or marine applications, as they're made for fixed wiring installations (i.e. buildings). Open barrel tend to be made for high vibration environments such as automotive applications. And it goes on and on.


That is pretty wide statement.  :)
Not really. Insulated terminals like those in the OP aren't suited for high vibration environments such as automotive applications.  ;D Vibration aside, the complete lack of any seal from the elements also means they're horrible for marine use.

I know they get used a lot for auto use as that's what parts stores carry, but it's not suited for that particular application. They're just cheap and easy.

I have to agree.I've used these in both automotive and marine and they just can't beat proper bare crimps ,solder and heat shrink.I may seem over kill but I always solder the crimped wire as well.More apparent in marine environments is the effect of the coating on the crimp it self and the bare copper wire.Bi metal connections can cause corrosion.So the tinning with solder cooks off the moisture and the heat shrink seals the deal.No more faulty connections.
 

Offline drussell

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 05:33:53 am »
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 07:44:31 am »
It may seem over kill but I always solder the crimped wire as well.
It is not overkill it is kill, you worsten the connection when soldering a perfectly crimped wire.
The most important rule is to use the correct ferrule and the correct crimptool, after that don't touch it.
Talk to Fraser on this forum, he had some vblogger pull a video on marine cables soldering after the crimp.
 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 12:41:19 pm »
Soldering after crimping can cause the wire to fatigue at the point the solder stops as the solder wicks into the cable and forms a hard section of wire with no strain relief at that point.

Also, regarding the fully insulated 'fast-on' style and ring/fork type crimp terminals, I used to use them all day at work in industrial machinery and never had a problem.
We did use name brand crimps with decent quality crimpers though, no dollar store or ebay crap.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:44:16 pm by TERRA Operative »
Any circuit design must contain at least one part which is obsolete, two parts which are unobtainable, and three parts which are still under development.

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Offline Kjelt

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 01:12:23 pm »
And there are more reasons.
A decent crimp has two crimp spots, one on the wire to the connector but also one to clamp the cablejacket which works as strain relief.
If your cable is not heatresistant than the jacket might melt during the soldering and make the stress relief unusable.
 

Offline elecman14

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Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Suggest tool for Crimp Spade Terminal
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 06:03:27 pm »
+1 for ratchet, and box construction rather then pressed steel.

Though I'm always wary of crimps when not done under controlled conditions with a known tool and brand of terminals. If in doubt about either, solder.
 


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