Talkin' 'bout my education...

[McPete]

Hey all,

In a few previous threads, I've asked about the suitability of paraprofessional level qualifications in terms of electronics engineering jobs... This is a little different, I've come to talk about what I've found following some investigation.

Today, I paid a visit to Ultimo TAFE, in the centre of Sydney, to talk to the teaching staff about their top-flight electronics/engineering course, an Advanced Diploma of "Electronic Technology". Anything with the name "electrical engineering" indicates both that 1) An electrical trade qualification is a pre-requisite, and 2) Is focused nearly entirely on power engineering.

What I found were a small core of teachers, and their head teacher,  mostly university qualified engineers with years of field experience, all still passionate about the fields they teach, trying to wrangle the best course possible out of less than ideal surroundings. Some of the red tape that surrounds the creation of new content borders on the bizarre.

Anyhow, I got talking about subjects offered- There's plenty on circuit analysis, programming (starting with assembler), analogue electronics, microcontrollers, power supplies (Linear and Switching), automation in the form of PLCs and SCADA, a lot of Linux/Unix scripting, plus your standard maths and physics topics, and a lot of things I've forgotten. To cap it all, in the final semester, students are assigned three projects; At this stage, it's a software project, an embedded design/Micro project, and a signal conditioning (Although this may become "computer control system) project.

What I didn't see was an "advanced digital electronics" subject. No high-speed digital design, no FPGAs. I asked about both those things, and I was met with a "We'll see what we can do". FPGA and high speed digital seem to be on the "preferred or essential" lists of most job ads I see. It's on the TAFE's wishlist too, but funding is a real problem- They can't afford the boards at this stage, but they're working on it.

I've got a program of study at work somewhere, if people are interested.

In any case, this is my best bet besides throwing in my job, and battling through Uni, without promise of a job on the other side... My current employer shouldn't have a problem paying for me to do this, I can do it part-time, and it's a stepping stone to Uni, if need be.

 The head teacher is constantly refining the course, so there is scope for improving or adding content! As a bonus for possible future career moves, Engineers Australia love projects, and apparently are keen to recognise the course at Associate level. It's also nice to be able to plonk down a board/code and talk about the way you approached the design and realisation of a project.

If that gets me in the door somewhere, I'm happy! Hell, if I learn something I'm happy!

I'll let you know how I get on when I start the course.
P.

[EEVblog]

Hey all,

In a few previous threads, I've asked about the suitability of paraprofessional level qualifications in terms of electronics engineering jobs... This is a little different, I've come to talk about what I've found following some investigation.

Today, I paid a visit to Ultimo TAFE, in the centre of Sydney, to talk to the teaching staff about their top-flight electronics/engineering course, an Advanced Diploma of "Electronic Technology". Anything with the name "electrical engineering" indicates both that 1) An electrical trade qualification is a pre-requisite, and 2) Is focused nearly entirely on power engineering.

What I found were a small core of teachers, and their head teacher,  mostly university qualified engineers with years of field experience, all still passionate about the fields they teach, trying to wrangle the best course possible out of less than ideal surroundings. Some of the red tape that surrounds the creation of new content borders on the bizarre.

Anyhow, I got talking about subjects offered- There's plenty on circuit analysis, programming (starting with assembler), analogue electronics, microcontrollers, power supplies (Linear and Switching), automation in the form of PLCs and SCADA, a lot of Linux/Unix scripting, plus your standard maths and physics topics, and a lot of things I've forgotten. To cap it all, in the final semester, students are assigned three projects; At this stage, it's a software project, an embedded design/Micro project, and a signal conditioning (Although this may become "computer control system) project.

What I didn't see was an "advanced digital electronics" subject. No high-speed digital design, no FPGAs. I asked about both those things, and I was met with a "We'll see what we can do". FPGA and high speed digital seem to be on the "preferred or essential" lists of most job ads I see. It's on the TAFE's wishlist too, but funding is a real problem- They can't afford the boards at this stage, but they're working on it.

I hate that shit, TAFE get bugger-all funding, it's a disgrace. I see it hasn't changed in 20 years.

Tell them to give Altium a call. They have a crap load of FPGA boards and love getting them into learning institutions.
If can't get the latest FPGA boards for nix, then I know a way they can get slightly older (but still very usable) boards for nothing.

In any case, this is my best bet besides throwing in my job, and battling through Uni, without promise of a job on the other side... My current employer shouldn't have a problem paying for me to do this, I can do it part-time, and it's a stepping stone to Uni, if need be.

The head teacher is constantly refining the course, so there is scope for improving or adding content! As a bonus for possible future career moves, Engineers Australia love projects, and apparently are keen to recognise the course at Associate level.

Those TAFE courses have always been recognised at the associate level by the IEA, it's just a formality if it's a new course I'm sure.

It's a great course, you won't regret it.

Dave.

[djsb]

Does that apply to UK based universities as well? Maybe I could get some nanoboards into the department I work in (School of Engineering and Design,Brunel University). Who do I contact about this?

[McPete]

Dave,

Yeah, TAFE has very much become the poor cousin to high schools and universities. I'll be sure to pass that on to the head teacher, although he said he had an offer of training for teachers if they bought the hardware- I'm not sure what company that was though.

It looks like a similar story with micros- Most of what they're using look to be old Motorolas. Apparently the electronics trades apprentices get time using Microchip PICs, so I'll see if I can get some time on those too. I have an idea for a project...

As an little aside, I did direct the head teacher to EEVBlog- The TAFE is trying to get some on-line content going, so people who live on the fringes of civilisation like me can catch up more easily if we miss a class. I thought it was a pretty good example of how to present material online.

I also had a chat with my branch manager at work today, along with my direct supervisor, regarding doing this course- Bear in mind, I work for an electricity company.
They're happy to support me doing this course, but they suggested I consider doing power engineering instead.
It is VERY awkward telling a highly regarded power engineer you aren't interested in his field of expertise!

I intend to push ahead with it, and I'll see if I can rope a few of my colleagues into it as well. It looks fun.
Thanks for your input Dave- I'm kind of in uncharted territory among my colleagues.

DJSB; Contact them via your appropriate channels. The worst they can do is say no.

[Feanor]

I work for an electricity company.
They're happy to support me doing this course, but they suggested I consider doing power engineering instead.

All these XXXX engineering fields really do rely on one another. A gain in any field is a gain in all the fields.

"Hark the age of power electronics is almost upon us! I foresee a DC power grid, IGBT's the size of houses! No more grid stability analysis!" - Just kidding but you get what I mean, these are all intertwined these engineering fields.

[tycz]

I hate that shit, TAFE get bugger-all funding, it's a disgrace. I see it hasn't changed in 20 years.

Tell them to give A!tium a call. They have a crap load of FPGA boards and love getting them into learning institutions.
If can't get the latest FPGA boards for nix, then I know a way they can get slightly older (but still very usable) boards for nothing.

Even if somebody gives them the latest FPGA boards, they will probably still have to buy new computers in order to run the (quite resource demanding) software. Also need to train the teachers. I imagine that getting the boards themselves isn't really a significant hurdle.

TAFE does offer a course on programmable logic but it's a bit out of date - programming GALs in the CUPL description language. It's not a big jump from there to programming CPLDs in AHDL, but not exactly FPGA level.

It looks like a similar story with micros- Most of what they're using look to be old Motorolas. Apparently the electronics trades apprentices get time using Microchip PICs, so I'll see if I can get some time on those too. I have an idea for a project...

I wouldn't say that at all, though perhaps it depends on the individual TAFE institute. I did several micro courses a few years ago and used PIC micros (at the time current chips, latest software) in asm and 8051 core micros in asm/C (using the SDCC compiler, cause it's free).

[EEVblog]

Even if somebody gives them the latest FPGA boards, they will probably still have to buy new computers in order to run the (quite resource demanding) software. Also need to train the teachers. I imagine that getting the boards themselves isn't really a significant hurdle.

True, Altium Designer is a huge resource hog. And you can get FPGA dev boards for next to nothing these days anyway.

Dave.

[FreeThinker]

Seems to be the same the world over at the moment.Companies crying out that they need qualified people (but are not prepared to fund the training), Students fighting to grab the few funded places available (and running up massive debts in the process) and Universities scratching around for funding.Crazy

[McPete]

All these XXXX engineering fields really do rely on one another. A gain in any field is a gain in all the fields.

"Hark the age of power electronics is almost upon us! I foresee a DC power grid, IGBT's the size of houses! No more grid stability analysis!" - Just kidding but you get what I mean, these are all intertwined these engineering fields.

It was more in terms of career advancement... Power engineering or project management are more or less compulsory to make it beyond the senior technician/leading hand role at my work. I don't care much for that- I signed up to be a specialist, not a manager.

 

Seems to be the same the world over at the moment.Companies crying out that they need qualified people (but are not prepared to fund the training), Students fighting to grab the few funded places available (and running up massive debts in the process) and Universities scratching around for funding.Crazy

My choice is such; I do a university qualification, I either;
1) Go it alone, throw in my job, rack up a big ol' debt going to Uni,
2) apply for a cadetship and be forced to power engineering in preference to anything else
3) Get this paraprofessional qualification part time, keep working (being paid), do the subject I want to do, and see where that takes me...

I think, given my situation, the choice is easy.