Testing my meters

[Simon]

Do Fluke give the meters to people and organizations as shown in their publicity shots in order to get the bragging rights or are the meters genuinely chosen by the end users. After all what is the cost of a few meters to Fluke when theire main market is the tens of thousands electricians in the world which is their main market. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiliey_dmm.gif

I remember getting an email from Rapid to tell me that the BBC was using one of their meters in a documentary, All it amounted to was a few second demonstration that needed a basic voltage readout or something, nothing special, they clearly just grabbed any meter going for the job but rapid tried to make out that their re-branded Chinese crap had been specifically chosen..........
Most PR excesizes and company promotions are so pathetic

[syncytial]

Here's one from a seller who will ship to UK for $20.  The last one he had sold for $56.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-27FM-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-/321037106295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abf4d7c77

So about $76 shipped 

Yes, it went for $56.00, to me. The ex-military 27/FM is a good solid old-school True RMS meter. I have two, and as is typical with Flukes, if they haven't been abused, they'll easily meet spec 20+ years later. Both of mine are essentially spot-on based on comparison with the rest of my Fluke fleet and my simple references.

Since these are ex-military, physical condition varies. Both of mine are "well-used". Some may be "as-new".

Remember that the yellow 27, including the ones with 27/FM on a label on the back, are NOT True RMS, though they are more recent production and there are substantial circuit differences in the generations.

These meters were packaged in a case with an RF probe and a 6KV HV probe. Often sellers will split them and sell individual bits.

I was toying with bidding on his current offerings - a 27/FM (above) and a 27 ($70.00) but I may hold off given that M0BSW is interested. I've got too many Flukes already.

The seller is a good bloke. He's reasonable and willing to accommodate oddball requests.


-  Syncytial.

P.S.  -  Occasionally, an unusual variant will show up and be largely ignored. That's how I got a Fluke/Philips F87M "Circuit Tester" for $28.75. It's a Fluke 87.     A spot of cleaning and it meets spec handily.   (eBay item 160899425010)

[retiredcaps]

P.S.  -  Occasionally, an unusual variant will show up and be largely ignored. That's how I got a Fluke/Philips F87M "Circuit Tester" for $28.75. It's a Fluke 87.     A spot of cleaning and it meets spec handily.   (eBay item 160899425010)

I remember seeing that auction and thinking someone got themselves a good deal.

[ptricks]

Digital meters and the tech involved have improved enough that for most work you don't need to spend a lot of money. Even the very cheap $10 meters now are accurate enough for most. Reading 4.95 for 5V will be okay for most people.  A lot of the meters have single chip solutions which make it hard to not have an okay meter. The biggest issue with cheap meters is safety and durability.

[M0BSW]

Digital meters and the tech involved have improved enough that for most work you don't need to spend a lot of money. Even the very cheap $10 meters now are accurate enough for most. Reading 4.95 for 5V will be okay for most people.  A lot of the meters have single chip solutions which make it hard to not have an okay meter. The biggest issue with cheap meters is safety and durability.

Having watch the review Dave gave on the under $50 meter, and as he gave the Vichy V99 a panning , that was enough for me to buy one, mine is a rebranded one of the same meter mine is Aide Tek VC99+, got it home and on my calibrated power supply it was spot on,then I put it on the DMM checker , every test a winner. so today I took ,my power standard to the service /calibration centre  for calibration & asked them if they would test the VC99+, guess what it passed everything, including NO over shoot on voltage, they said it was even a higher spec that the manual stated, they asked me how much it cost £23.50p UK, which floored them.Then we watch Dave's review, where the vichy VC 99, went through all Dave's test seemed to come out OK, unlike the branded ones  who's case split open, which he passed over  a bit quickly, branded meter over shot the power every time where the Vichy kept on going, he also mention the bar graph similar to flukes which he dismissed quickly to as a gimmick,sorry mine is acurate ,sorry to disapoint as is the whole meter, with is calibration sticker, certificate. what bothers me is why pan a meter that is acurate and cheap for the hobbyist, when the branded ones were crap. I'm pleased that I bought this meter, really good for a hobbyist, shame some hobbyist were probably put off by the review. mine hadn't been tampered or opened, from China to my home to calibration centre. I'll will continue to watch the reviews with a large pinch of salt, and if something is disliked i'll take a closer look as it has every chance of been OK, Service centre wonder by the style and seemly hate of unbranded meters, was he a Fluke/Ampro employed, as on the drop test he looked dissapointed that it survived, and maintained the branded ones were a good buy , "I don't think so" Rant OVER

[Simon]

I think maybe VC99 is a name given to many incarnations of that meter, mine was awful, maybe they realized that they had change or ditch it. I'd never buy one after my experience particularly if I can buy something like the AM220 that costs the same but is more reliable.

[saturation]

.. or it could be their quality control.  As ptricks mentions, safety and durability are more a concern than accuracy as even a $3 cheapo in the US can measure easily to 1% and stay there, when relatively new. 

But a bigger concern is safety.  IIRC VC99 is a CAT II 1000V DMM and has the measuring capability to do so, but it not certified by anyone for safety to do so, other than CE.

The safety regulations say a DMM should be able to measure at its highest ranges safely.  Looking at the stock photos on google and scanning Dave's old video, the VC99 has glass fuses inside?  Also the chassis is at least pseudo-double insulated but not like a Fluke 17b, which has a true double hull like nearly all modern Fluke DMMs.  So, just by visual appearance, if not fuses alone, its raises serious CAT II safety concerns.

I think maybe VC99 is a name given to many incarnations of that meter, mine was awful, maybe they realized that they had change or ditch it. I'd never buy one after my experience particularly if I can buy something like the AM220 that costs the same but is more reliable.

[M0BSW]

I think maybe VC99 is a name given to many incarnations of that meter, mine was awful, maybe they realized that they had change or ditch it. I'd never buy one after my experience particularly if I can buy something like the AM220 that costs the same but is more reliable.

Hi simone I can only go on what I see infront of me and the Calibration sheet in front of me, and maybe Aide Tek calling it VC99+ they may have made some changes, although it looks the same as the reviewed one, it seems to end there. anyway time will tell I'm sure,I don't really have any preference to meters brands. I've got to say I like this one. I have at the moment got a interest in a fluke 27 FM, which I think is a reasonable meter although there old , which doesn't bother me

[Lightages]

I don't think anyone is disputing that a VC99 can be accurate. The question is for how long? Is it reliable enough to be trusted a year from now when you pick it up to do a critical measurement? Will it die an early death if connected incorrectly to a high voltage or high energy circuit? Will it cause you harm if it fails at this point in a dramatic way?

Read these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cat-ratings-and-interpretation/

This will give you an idea why people are not generally happy to recommend a VC99. There are many multimeters ranging from the bombs waiting to off in your hand to those that are built to keep running even if you connected them the wrong way to the wires coming from a distribution transformer on the pole outside.

So you can pick up a VC99, and because of oxidized selector switch it may show that you live circuit is actually dead and you might have some unforeseen consequences when working with the unknown live circuit. Maybe you are trimming the cutoff voltage of a lithium battery charger and again because of a bad reading you now have a battery waiting to explode or start a fire. Maybe you have you VC99 set to read voltage and you don't notice that the leads are actually on the high amp measurement connection and the meter arcs over inside and you have a nasty burn or worse yet a piece of plastic gets launched into your eye.

You don't think this can happen? Just ask anyone who has been making measurements all their adult life and ask anyone of them if they have ever connected a meter incorrectly. I am sure many would be able to say that they have had some small explosions go off inside their meters. I have met many electricians with burns on the fingers, and some with skin grafts on their faces. It is not a joke. Just because there are thousands of people who have "gotten away with it" does not negate that many have not.

So the end point of all of this is that you need to be familiar with what can happen, how your equipment behaves and how likely is it to behave correctly when used correctly or not.

[M0BSW]

That's very interesting , all my electronics is low powered usually 6~12 volts very low amps, so would this be ok, I generally repair  battery powered transistor radio or I build receivers filters for my ham radio nothing with huge power, my HV linear amps are repaired/serviced by pro's, so in my world do you think this VC99+ would survived.

[T4P]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week
Once it happens to you, you start to hate glass fuses and crap meters ALOT that's why i knock the UT70 + 71 as well as the VC86 so much

[Lightages]

so in my world do you think this VC99+ would survived.

Maybe you are trimming the cutoff voltage of a lithium battery charger and again because of a bad reading you now have a battery waiting to explode or start a fire.

[Monkeh]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week

I'm sure they knew you were a dumbass beforehand, you didn't have to prove it.

[Simon]

I think maybe VC99 is a name given to many incarnations of that meter, mine was awful, maybe they realized that they had change or ditch it. I'd never buy one after my experience particularly if I can buy something like the AM220 that costs the same but is more reliable.

Hi simone I can only go on what I see infront of me and the Calibration sheet in front of me, and maybe Aide Tek calling it VC99+ they may have made some changes, although it looks the same as the reviewed one, it seems to end there. anyway time will tell I'm sure,I don't really have any preference to meters brands. I've got to say I like this one. I have at the moment got a interest in a fluke 27 FM, which I think is a reasonable meter although there old , which doesn't bother me

I bet your testing house never tried dropping it. A light drop of mine and it never worked the same again

[Simon]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week

I'm sure they knew you were a dumbass beforehand, you didn't have to prove it.

Ditto

[M0BSW]

I think maybe VC99 is a name given to many incarnations of that meter, mine was awful, maybe they realized that they had change or ditch it. I'd never buy one after my experience particularly if I can buy something like the AM220 that costs the same but is more reliable.

Hi simone I can only go on what I see infront of me and the Calibration sheet in front of me, and maybe Aide Tek calling it VC99+ they may have made some changes, although it looks the same as the reviewed one, it seems to end there. anyway time will tell I'm sure,I don't really have any preference to meters brands. I've got to say I like this one. I have at the moment got a interest in a fluke 27 FM, which I think is a reasonable meter although there old , which doesn't bother me

I bet your testing house never tried dropping it. A light drop of mine and it never worked the same again

No they didn't that's no way to treat a meter is it, really you are bad boy lol

[Simon]

Well I didn't intend to and any meter should take one drop from 2 ft 

[Monkeh]

Well I didn't intend to and any meter should take one drop from 2 ft 

Please don't try that with my Avo.

[M0BSW]

Well I didn't intend to and any meter should take one drop from 2 ft 

Please don't try that with my Avo.

I've recently just bought an AVO, what a beautiful piece of equipment it is, I don't have to use it ,I can just look at it   .

[T4P]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week

I'm sure they knew you were a dumbass beforehand, you didn't have to prove it.

Dumbass? I don't do such things. I just had to prove to stupid graduates that a cheap meter of such = dangerous, I undertake safety somewhat but i do advocate the UT61E as the one which is much safer by a far shot at 50$, unlike the greek dude on other forum who thinks you must have a 300$ meter to do anything

[M0BSW]

 I know there cheap but for my interest which is from 3volts to 12 volts in amateur radio,and for testing transistor radio's there fine I don't poke around in the mains, don't have any high amp stuff, so guess it will work well for me, I have other meters, should I want to venture on the wild side, very unlikey I enjoy living 

[Monkeh]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week

I'm sure they knew you were a dumbass beforehand, you didn't have to prove it.

Dumbass? I don't do such things.

But you did do it. Stop trying to wriggle out of it.

[Achilles]

I blew up a VC99 from mains in current mode up in my hands before (simply because somebody dared me to) Significantly burnt my fingers there (first-degree burn) but luckily i recovered in a week

I'm sure they knew you were a dumbass beforehand, you didn't have to prove it.

Dumbass? I don't do such things. I just had to prove to stupid graduates that a cheap meter of such = dangerous, I undertake safety somewhat but i do advocate the UT61E as the one which is much safer by a far shot at 50$, unlike the greek dude on other forum who thinks you must have a 300$ meter to do anything

well...honestly T4P. If you would have just plugged it in standing on the ground, it would have been impressive enough I guess. You didn't need to burn your hands....even if it's just a minor burn (maybe you just had luck).

You could do your own safety tests I guess. Please inform us before which model you intend to misuse... if we don't hear anything in a while from you  we know which models to stay away from :-D.

[PA4TIM]

I blew up a VC meter too. A 200 euro scopemeter.  In the voltage range. I was glad I did not had it in my hand. I measured a powersupply that should give around 600 to 700 VDC but it turned out the tranformer value was given per tap, and not for the whole. So it was over 1000V. That killed the meter in a flash. Not only the voltrange but also voltage regulators, display and driver, opamps in the resistance range, ect.

This was my last cheap brand meter. I allready had two Flukes ( a 20 year old 77-III that is still spot on, a 25 yearscold 8022 ( always forget the number but that ugly beige thing with knobs at the side)
And they survived all stupid mistakes I made. I wanted a modern fast hand multimeter too, so i bought a Agilent 1252U . But I was in doubt between Agilent and Fluke. Agilent won because the functions I wanted. I am still happy with it but I still have a little voice in the back of my head nagging to me why not the Fluke  ( i have a lotvof other Fluke stuff too, like 332, 720,750,760,535,532, 8050, 8000, 845ect)

( one other reason was the stinking support department. I needed parts for a Fluke 720. I asked then three times, no answer. Then I mailed them some questions , because I was in doubt between a Fluke and a Agilent (1252U), and again only an automated mail replay, the question is received by the support department and I will get an answer soon. So i do not like Fluke, to bad their meters are so good.

[saturation]

Some years ago I was repairing an adjustable high voltage SMPS with erratic output.  My Fluke was showing wild numbers, bobbing from 0V to 200V, and the bar graph constantly jumping.  It was set at 0 volts output, so what was wrong?

I take my cheapo Velleman scope, put it on roll mode to catch a minute worth of output.  Every now and then, a spike of 800-900VDC would appear from a baseline -400VDC offset, of only ms duration, I posted this photo in the archives to show what this cheap scope can do.  I could have done it with the Fluke in peak mode, but not sure it would capture the transient, or the nature of it, so the scope was more helpful. 

One can't assume high voltages aren't there.  After all, the DUT was damaged, and being repaired, anything goes, and it was also a PSU.  Its mains powered, so its a CAT 1 device which is suitable for the scope. So its always best that the  measuring device protect you as thoroughly as it can, even if its CAT 1.