The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition (Improved) Amazon Fake

[BigBeard]

Howdy all!

This is my first post, and I hope this helps someone that's curious about this book. The Authors site talks about the counterfeit issue, and lists things to look for. They also include safe places to buy the book. Well, I received my copy from Amazon today, which was Sold / Shipped by Amazon, however mine is a fake. They mentioned Amazon sellers were the main issue, but it seems that's spilled over to Amazon itself. After setting up the return, I bought a copy from the Book Depository, hopefully that will be the end of it.

Side note, I'm actually a little happy about it  . I've used Amazon since 2005, and it's not the same place anymore. I try my best to stay clear of them when possible 

[golden_labels]

Sad to hear about the situation. I hope you get your refund quick. Did you explain the situation regarding the copy being counterfeit and stressed that part enough, and one can hope Amazon will kick the seller out of the platform? I am aware that the void will be filled back soon, but for some time there will be a reduced chance of people getting scammed.

Note that Book Depository is a brand of Amazon. So you did not quit using Amazon, but only limited your buying options. What one can see in their webapp is a filtered view of Amazon’s offers.

[thm_w]

https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/

Link to the listing you bought it from?

[BigBeard]

https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/

Link to the listing you bought it from?

I just searched on Amazon and pulled up the listing. I made sure that I bought the one that stated Sold and Shipped by Amazon, which is why I'm surprised about it.

Here's the link to the product page I used on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521809266?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I bought it yesterday, showed up today.

[BigBeard]

Sad to hear about the situation. I hope you get your refund quick. Did you explain the situation regarding the copy being counterfeit and stressed that part enough, and one can hope Amazon will kick the seller out of the platform? I am aware that the void will be filled back soon, but for some time there will be a reduced chance of people getting scammed.

Note that Book Depository is a brand of Amazon. So you did not quit using Amazon, but only limited your buying options. What one can see in their webapp is a filtered view of Amazon’s offers.

Well crap, that sucks. I didn't know they were linked with Amazon. When setting up the return I put an explanation of what happened, and I took pictures just in case there was any doubt. There is no seller to point out, this was Sold and Shipped by Amazon. I'm not sure where they get their copies, but fakes made it into inventory. That was the purpose of the post, to let others know Amazon itself isn't a sure thing for this book anymore. Making me think about stopping the order from Book Depository now, not because of the fact Amazon would still get money from me, just for the fact I might get another bad copy. Thanks for the heads up on that 

Edit: Fixed a typo and re-worded one part to eliminate confusion.

[TomWinTejas]

This is a big problem with Amazon... if a SKU is sold by Amazon and other sellers they will mix the inventory in a single bin.  So while you'd expect a genuine book/battery/sdcard/etc because it's sold by a seemingly reputable dealer, you get screwed by the fraudulent ones.  Mouser and Best Buy have gotten a lot more of my business because of Amazon's bad business practice.

[SuzyC]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

[aeberbach]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

Did you ever make a copy of a cassette tape by hitting play on one boombox and recording on another? Generational degradation and poor quality. The authors describe some of the differences here:
https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/

The really weird thing is that somehow they lost all the ligatures so "fi" combinationshave disappeared. Author is now "Wineld Hill".

[golden_labels]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

Significant differences? With counterfeits you never have a guarantee of the copy even being complete? One may wish to support the author financially? One may be obligated to have a physical, authorized copy by the techer?

[EPAIII]

It has been a long time since I have been in a classroom, but are teachers/professors now inspecting the books the students are studying from? And where? Colleges? Trade schools? High schools?

The college and high school that I attended had their own book shops. You ordered the books for your course and they procured them and collected the cost. I assume they purchased from reputable printers. Of course, that was some years ago when no one even imagined the internet, much less Amazon.

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

Significant differences? With counterfeits you never have a guarantee of the copy even being complete? One may wish to support the author financially? One may be obligated to have a physical, authorized copy by the techer?

[rdl]

I bought a text book from Amazon a few years ago. It was new, not used and I'm pretty sure it was shipped and sold by Amazon but maybe not. On the cover was an odd yellow sticker, so I peeled it off. Underneath it said:

Indian Edition
For Sale in India only

You just never know what you're gonna get from them these days.

[jpanhalt]

This is the only thing I consider "ships and sold by amazon." (attached)  "Amazon Services" and "Amazon Warehouse" are not Amazon despite sharing part of the name.

Aa for buying counterfeit or downloading "free" copyrighted materials that probably violate the copyright, that's up to the individual.  If it's late at night and there's a stop sign, do you still stop if you don't see any traffic around?  I do, a lot of people don't.  When the inevitable accident occurs, they lie about stopping, etc.  That's a personal choice.

[BigBeard]

Why the need to pay hundreds of dollars for a genuine hardcover edition or less for a counterfeit when the entire genuine book 3rd ed can be downloaded for free as a .pdf and anyone can then view it on their pc and print out any pages of interest for a particular study or project?

Is it your desire to learn electronics or be a book collector?

I prefer to support the authors, and I prefer books. Books don't run out of batteries.

[BigBeard]

This is a big problem with Amazon... if a SKU is sold by Amazon and other sellers they will mix the inventory in a single bin.  So while you'd expect a genuine book/battery/sdcard/etc because it's sold by a seemingly reputable dealer, you get screwed by the fraudulent ones.  Mouser and Best Buy have gotten a lot more of my business because of Amazon's bad business practice.

That's exactly why I stay away from Amazon when possible. In recent years I've had more bad luck than good.

[golden_labels]

Making me think about stopping the order from Book Depository now, not because of the fact Amazon would still get money from me, just for the fact I might get another bad copy. Thanks for the heads up on that 

I want to be clear here: Book Depository is still a subset of Amazon’s offers. Your purchase doesn’t involve other sellers, which are likely the source of the counterfeit copy.

[MarkS]

So, any ideas of where to purchase a legitimate copy?

[wraper]

This is a big problem with Amazon... if a SKU is sold by Amazon and other sellers they will mix the inventory in a single bin.  So while you'd expect a genuine book/battery/sdcard/etc because it's sold by a seemingly reputable dealer, you get screwed by the fraudulent ones.  Mouser and Best Buy have gotten a lot more of my business because of Amazon's bad business practice.

Really doubt. Seller items come with their own ASIN barcode sticker while Amazon own stock in plain manufacturer package with no additional barcodes. This may well be someone bought a genuine one and then returned counterfeit garbage which was then put back in stock.

[jpanhalt]

@ wraper
My thought exactly.  Amazon's liberal return policy probably gets abused a lot (i.e., buy used elsewhere, buy new AMZ, return used AMZ).  Amazon Warehouse is apparently one of its sellers for returned merchandise.

Another ruse is "gifting" eBay purchases thought AMZ.  That happened a lot a few years ago.  I haven't seen it recently, but I am more careful checking eBay prices v. Amazon prices.

[Stray Electron]

https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/

Link to the listing you bought it from?

I just searched on Amazon and pulled up the listing. I made sure that I bought the one that stated Sold and Shipped by Amazon, which is why I'm surprised about it.

Here's the link to the product page I used on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521809266?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I bought it yesterday, showed up today.

  I just looked at the link that you provided and it doesn't say "Sold and Shipped by Amazon".  It says "Rented from an Amazon  Warehouse" and "Fulfilled by Amazon".   That tells me that someone else is probably supplying the item and renting space from Amazon and is letting Amazon handle the shipping and delivery.

    Further down the page is an option to buy the same book from Amazon and have it shipped by Amazon but the price is $105.  The statement at the top RH of page that the item that you can bought can be returned at the end of the semester should have also been a giant red flag that the book you were going to get is probably used and out of date.   

    Words have meaning!


  Cut and Paste and portions highlighted:

Rent
$52.50

    List Price: $105.00
    Save: $52.50 (50%)

Due Date: Jun 25, 2023 Rental Details

    FREE return shipping at the end of the semester.
    Access codes and supplements are not guaranteed with rentals.

In Stock.
Rented from Amazon Warehouse
Fulfilled by Amazon
FREE Prime delivery Monday, March 13
Deliver to **********
Add to Cart

Buy new:
$105.00
One-Day
FREE delivery: Tomorrow
Ships from: Amazon.com
Sold by: Amazon.com

Buy used:
$90.74
Add to List
Have one to sell?
Sell on Amazon

Other Sellers on Amazon
Add to Cart
$117.95
& FREE Shipping
Sold by: Publisher Direct
Add to Cart
$135.06
& FREE Shipping
Sold by: agreenhippo1

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Winfield Hill
Paul Horowitz
The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition

[Stray Electron]

So, any ideas of where to purchase a legitimate copy?

   From Amazon but read the listing first!  The publisher also probably sells directly.  E-Greed probably also has legitimate used copies and possibly new, unused copies (but beware of the "reproductions"!)

   I buy between 6 and 10 books per week and I ALWAYS look at the title page to see what version it is and who the actual publisher is!  Most of the reproduction books are junk! 

[thm_w]

    Further down the page is an option to buy the same book from Amazon and have it shipped by Amazon but the price is $105.  The statement at the top RH of page that the item that you can bought can be returned at the end of the semester should have also been a giant red flag that the book you were going to get is probably used and out of date.   

No OP did pay $105, which is the price for a new hardcover copy, its just the amazon page being confusing.

[jpanhalt]

I once bought a "grey market" book, if that is the right word from a dealer on Amazon that was advertised as "new.".  The key was that the copyright page had been carefully removed from the binding.  Rest of the book was like new.  I contacted the seller, and it gave me an additional discount.

That was in the day when there were brick and mortar bookstores.  As I understand it, those dealers received a shipment of books on consignment from a publisher.  When they didn't sell, rather than pay hefty return shipping fees, the publisher would allow the retail store to remove that page, send it back to the publisher, and the store would presumably destroy the book.  Which of course, led to resale of the book as new by whoever got it very cheaply from the bookstore.

[amyk]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

Did you ever make a copy of a cassette tape by hitting play on one boombox and recording on another? Generational degradation and poor quality. The authors describe some of the differences here:
https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/

The really weird thing is that somehow they lost all the ligatures so "fi" combinationshave disappeared. Author is now "Wineld Hill".

I guess these are coming from "print on demand" services where no one even looks at the product, and they automatically print and bind as many as are ordered from some PDFs they have, and the machines are in barely working order.

[exe]

Wow, that price... I believe it was cheaper when was released . Who remembers the original price? My bet it was $75 or less.

[jpanhalt]

In 2015, I paid AMZ $103.80  (including tax) for my copy of the 3rd edition.  Second edition, which I still go to, was a lot less.

[PA0PBZ]

In 2015, I paid AMZ $103.80  (including tax) for my copy of the 3rd edition.  Second edition, which I still go to, was a lot less.

Hmm, I paid €75 in March 2015 from amazon.de

[golden_labels]

But do not compare nominal value of 2015 $ and € to 2023.

SuzyC: thank you for removing the link. One may have different opinions about unauthorized copies & co., but blatanly posting the link on a public forum like EEVblog is both causing trouble to Dave and disservice to Internet Archive.

[BigBeard]

I just looked at the link that you provided and it doesn't say "Sold and Shipped by Amazon".  It says "Rented from an Amazon  Warehouse" and "Fulfilled by Amazon".   

When I click the link I posted here, (same link in your quote) I don't see a rent option, or Amazon Warehouse... only Ships and Sold by Amazon. See attached Pic. You may see those as options, but it doesn't mean everyone does.

[ebastler]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

The genuine copy actually contains a royalty to the authors. 

[wraper]

What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy  in actual content anyway?

The genuine copy actually contains a royalty to the authors. 

Also it's better quality and does not contain OCR errors.

[LinuxHata]

Well I decided to post here, since I have bought this book, official edition, in India, for far less price than it is sold on Amazon, but someone already mentioned that.
So no stranger that someone are reselling the Indian version on Amazon. And no, Indian version is not fake, it is just printed for the different market.

[jpanhalt]

From the US DOJ:

The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner.

Yes, it can be sold if legally bought elsewhere and resold; however, I suspect it must be sold as "used, like new," as you are not an authorized reseller.

[wraper]

From the US DOJ:

The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner.

Yes, it can be sold if legally bought elsewhere and resold; however, I suspect it must be sold as "used, like new," as you are not an authorized reseller.

Do you realize that the vast majority of goods are sold by non authorized resellers? Goods do not suddenly become used if manufacturer, publisher or whoever did not authorize particular reseller.

[jpanhalt]

An item becomes "used" in the US (which was the scenario) when first sold to a non-authorized reseller.  That applies to books, cars, photographic equipment, and so forth.  Try to get warranty service in the US on an international version (i.e., not approved for sale in the US) camera made by Nikon for example.  Of course, laws in other countries may be different.

[wraper]

An item becomes "used" in the US (which was the scenario) when first sold to a non-authorized reseller.  That applies to books, cars, photographic equipment, and so forth.  Try to get warranty service in the US on an international version (i.e., not approved for sale in the US) camera made by Nikon for example.  Of course, laws in other countries may be different.

Then I guess you bought quite a bit of used parts from Digikey or Mouser.

[Black Phoenix]

An item becomes "used" in the US (which was the scenario) when first sold to a non-authorized reseller.  That applies to books, cars, photographic equipment, and so forth.  Try to get warranty service in the US on an international version (i.e., not approved for sale in the US) camera made by Nikon for example.  Of course, laws in other countries may be different.

I think you are mistaking "Used" with "Grey Market" inports...

If both items are "NOS" or "New Condition" but are not warranty by the official distributor in the country then it means they are Grey Imports.

In the case you explain, that's because Nikon have a division for the US and Canada and an International Division.

Cameras for the US and Canada market have their serial no starting with US, International ones don't.

International support are not autorize to warrant any US Camera and the opposite.

Also cameras bought in countries that are not their distribution market (as Japanese Serial No cameras being sold in Hong Kong) are also not warrant, even if they have a valid warranty and receipt (they check by the serial no allocated per region).

[jpanhalt]

Then I guess you bought quite a bit of used parts from Digikey or Mouser.

You guess wrong.  From which supplier not in this list do you buy parts at Digikey?
https://www.digikey.com/en/supplier-centers?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=EN_Brand_Digi-Key&utm_term=digi%20key%20corporation&utm_content=General&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrLfUiOfb_QIV5WpvBB2erAxoEAAYASABEgJvIfD_BwE

[tooki]

This is a big problem with Amazon... if a SKU is sold by Amazon and other sellers they will mix the inventory in a single bin.  So while you'd expect a genuine book/battery/sdcard/etc because it's sold by a seemingly reputable dealer, you get screwed by the fraudulent ones.  Mouser and Best Buy have gotten a lot more of my business because of Amazon's bad business practice.

Really doubt. Seller items come with their own ASIN barcode sticker while Amazon own stock in plain manufacturer package with no additional barcodes. This may well be someone bought a genuine one and then returned counterfeit garbage which was then put back in stock.

Nope. Stock commingling is a big problem that is well-documented.

At least now it appears to be something that is theoretically opt-in for a vendor:
https://www.elverconsultancy.co.uk/what-is-amazon-commingling-and-why-would-i-use-it/
https://www.redpoints.com/blog/amazon-commingled-inventory-management/
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/amazon-counterfeit-fake-products/

A vendor can choose to use special stickers and even individual serialization to ensure no commingling happens. But that comes with its own limitations and costs.

What isn't clear is whether Amazon itself participates on a given item. For sure, in the past, they have. For some items, like Apple USB chargers, the problem was so bad that Apple took their products off Amazon entirely until Amazon agreed to allow Apple to vet the vendors of their products:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/more-apple-products-are-coming-to-amazon-under-a-new-deal.html
https://www.vice.com/en/article/bjexb5/amazon-is-kicking-all-unauthorized-apple-refurbishers-off-the-site

Tangentially related, I found this article while searching for the ones above:
https://www.geekwire.com/2021/concerns-amazon-apple-removes-product-review-analyzer-fakespot-app-store/
Because of course Amazon would fight something that exposes fakes. 

[BigBeard]

Finally had a moment to post an update, I've been moving my shop to a larger space. The books (decided to gamble and buy all 3 of the series) from The Book Depository are genuine, and arrived quicker than I anticipated. I also spoke to a rep about the issue I had with Amazon and they were 100% ok if I needed to send them back. One thing that stood out to me right out the box was they were sealed in a plastic wrap where Amazon's were not. That might have no meaning but it's worth noting. One of my sons has a growing interest in electronics and this was well worth the money spent. I've set him up with his own workbench next to mine and I'm thrilled to see him join his pops in the shop 

[bidrohini1]

Thanks for making us aware.

[5U4GB]

I bought a text book from Amazon a few years ago. It was new, not used and I'm pretty sure it was shipped and sold by Amazon but maybe not. On the cover was an odd yellow sticker, so I peeled it off. Underneath it said:

Indian Edition
For Sale in India only

You just never know what you're gonna get from them these days.

That's the same as the US edition only priced differently.  So in the US the publisher will sell a $10 book for $120, in India they'll sell the same book for $15.  It's a great way to get outrageously overpriced textbooks for a more reasonable price, just look on eBay for the non-US editions.  You're getting the real deal, just not paying the ripoff markup charged to US and European buyers.