The correct EPDM rubber cord diamater to insulate internally a pipe

[YouCanDoIt]

Oh yes, I should have used more clear terms. 24/7 should be the maintenance mode.

This is really an excellent explanation on how works the process and the risks for the other food. I must admit I'm surprised about the technology. Freezer exists from decades and they still rely on a temperature sensor that activate the compressor when could be too late (rather than an infrared camera as you said).

I was not aware of the importance to keep the freezer full of frozen foods and liquids for optimum efficiency (mine is, but only at random interval).
Based on this, let me see if the following idea makes sense.
I could ensure that the freezer is all of time completely filled by using an appropriate number of ice bags (which I insert or remove based on the inserted or removed food). I keep ice and food into three separate layers. The food, the ice and a permanent wall made of ice packs between foods and the ice for the cooler. In this way I can build my own ice as I want and without any limit because there is the permanent layer to reduce heat penetration into the food layer.

I didn't measured the internal size of the big freezer, but if you say it is still not enough, then I have one more reason to stay away from it.
Just confirm me that the following idea is very bad, in this way I will not be tempted:
such freezer is just below the roof. What if I power it on through a solar panel? Supposing I will get the needed energy, I will solve the problem of the high bills, I can get much more ice and no risk of food damage because this will only be an ice maker. Sound to much good and easy to be true! I'm prepared for your bad news!

Thanks for clearing up the “5-10 seconds” thing. I suppose this has no impact on power consumption. Is the 2 hours running time you're talking about noticeable in term of costs?

Many thanks also for the explanation on how the foods can get ruined. Not sure about the other foods, but I experienced
the grainy ice cream you're talking about, but I've always thought it was due to the quality of the brand (it could, but now I have two different suspects).
It would be a big problem if some food lose quality (still a minor problem than the suffering I have to go through on an hot room), but harmful bacteria is another story.
I need to be careful and work to find the correct balance rather than put inside as much bags as I can (as was my initial plan).

I got the point! My room is not open (closed door and closed window) except for brief intervals where I open the window to refresh air. Have no idea on how this can impact. Only hope to have some control on the cold I push into the room.

Regarding the video, I'm afraid I can't comment anymore. I'm sure your critics are well founded and argued, but he is the only one that can respond. You're also saying that his video has been made in a tendentious way with hidden parts that are against its statements. I'm afraid I can't comment this too because it is something that has to do with trust, but what I can say is that your accuses to youtubers are not non sense. There are there people that publish projects that don't work at all, but modified in a way that they seems to be easy and the scoop of the year. I had encountered one, but such kind of fakes are usually easy to detect by the plenty of negative comments (and insults).
To me Fred seemed to be an honest person, he published a second video with more details and step by step instructions and I could only see happy people.
It would be a very interesting debate if Fred could join the discussion. Is there someone who know him and can send an invite?
Just to be clear, in a scenario like this, without the interested person able to replicate, the only honest thing I can do is impartiality. Just want to invite you to be more friendly (calling someone idiot is not what I would call a warm welcome). Same if the guy in the other thread accepts to join the discussion.

I trust you if you say that thermodynamics science can calculate everything, but there are also human factors and other unrelated variables. I think that science, combined with experiments in the field, makes information more valuable, even more when there are criticisms like yours.
It's not that I love youtubers, it's just that I'm open to all sources, even more when they are conflicting.
This, of course, has to be combined with a filtering of what is good and what is bad.
Just for curiosity and some good and innocent irony...you said that youtubers lacks the knowledge (it's your personal opinion and is fine). If tomorrow you becomes a youtuber, you publish a DIY project and I visit your video. How I should consider you?

I thought I was clear about the GOOGLE FAQ story, but I'm afraid I was wrong and since I've been judged as a poor, naive and without even the minimum common sense, I have in some way to defend myself and enter into details. I have, at least when these are the tones and the words used.

...your blind trust in a Google FAQ (which are frequently completely wrong, by the way), without even making the effort to see if it’s applicable — and at the same time ignoring common sense. Surely you’ve seen bottles with corks over 3 years old?!? The fact that bottles with corks much older than exist, and I’m sure you knew that already, should have immediately made you think “wait a second, that can’t be right.”

You omitted a little detail from the google FAQ:
"Whole wine corks can take up to three years to fully decompose, even in ideal conditions. But you can significantly speed up this process by shredding or cutting them in smaller pieces."
Let me explain a couple of things starting with the reliability of google:
it is never a google error, if this statement is on their search results, then the same statement is also in the related url, always and with no exceptions.
Let me continue with how works my bad common sense:

• If I read that cork can take much less than 3 years to fully decompose when it is cut into smaller pieces and the piece I need is only 8mm, then my common sense is what makes me think "Wait a moment!"
• I don't know why you think the contrary, but I always check the applicability after I read their FAQ. However, common sense says me that it's a waste of time checking such statement validity when this product is not available in the market in the size I need. May be you have a different common sense where you lose time to read papers about the validity of a product even if you can't have that product and that's fine.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the reading of an url, the interlocutor does not respond me with a long message where he accuses me of being a poor, naive and with inexistent common sense (substantially nearly a stupid). Common sense, confirmed each time happens such little mistakes, tells me that  I can simply expect "You're wrong, friend! It's related to composting", followed by a quick "Sorry! Ok, let see the other issue" from my side.
• Common sense tells me that when, for example, I have only 5 minutes left and I am still with an open draft, it is better to complete and send the message if there is no time for the validation
• Common sense tells me that in case of scenarios like the previous point, it is not a tragedy if the validation is delayed and place it in the low priority list.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the validation, the interlocutor understand, by its common sense, that this is just a a simple lack that can occur to anyone rather that getting immediately malicious to a point to think that I just want to prove he is wrong.

I can continue with the list, but I think is enough.

You don't want that I list all the times where people demonstrated I was wrong and I accepted without contestation, right? Because it would be a long list and a time consuming process.

Given that you got yourself the freedom to analyze my personality and you have done this publicly rather than contacting me privately to tell me what was wrong, can I do the same with you?
I feel like you have problems to distinguish when some statements are subjective, in particular when they are against your beliefs and you can get so hot to a point to call a person stupid (again, this is how you publicly called Fred) without even knowing him. Personal opinions are questionable and they are not a bad thing. And when you are sure it is not a matter of personal opinions, then you should be happy to proof people are wrong.
What surprises me is that such behaviours are mixed with very friendly and great effort to help that I rarely see in other people, just like would happen between two friends.
And this is how I see my communication with you, a funny way to take a break from more serious stuff.
So, hope you do not get hotter if I got the same freedom. This is something that I never do, but when someone starts on its own I can resist for some time as I have done, then I feel the right to take the same freedom.
Unlike many other people, you are for sure an interesting person.
It's a shame that we are so far, it would have been very funny some evenings every while with you along with some beers.
Or better, very cold beers (you agree with me that, at least as a drink cooler, my Vevor will do an excellent job, right?)

[YouCanDoIt]

So I found one example of such a cooling unit that seems to have a sensible justification (use in a small airplane cabin without onboard power) and is thoughtfully designed.

In this case the builder specifically directed the stream of cool air directly at the occupants, and also bought big blocks of ice from the convenience store, rather than freezing ice at home.

This is the kind of video that I would be comfortable taking hints from:

Very interesting project!

I think that we are in a field where subjectivity plays a big role. Just to add another concrete sample..,
If one person is on a big room and have to move around all of the time, will say that an ice-cooler is junk.
The same person in the same room that is force to sit on a desk all of the time, will say that an ice-cooler is a life-saver.

[ebastler]

In the meantime we have learned that you plan to operate your cooler in your home, where mains power is easily available. So I think you should really get something like this (random example from Amazon Italia): https://www.amazon.it/Cecotec-Condizionata-Telecomando-ForceClima-Connected/dp/B0BPZKBGF2



These are proper, heat-pump based units. Like the cooler you intend to build, they pull in air from the room, guide it across a heat exchanger, and blow out cool air through the front grille. But their heat exchanger is not cooled by ice packs which you have to prepare externally, but by a heat pump (like the one in your refrigerator or freezer) which operates permanently.

The heat pump gets rid of the thermal energy it extracts from the room by blowing out hot air through a large-diameter tube connected to the unit's back. You need to guide that hot air to the outside, through a hole in the wall, a cracked-open window or such. That is a weakness of these designs -- they need that "way out" for the excess heat, and will pull warm air into the room to replace the air they blow out, either directly from the outside or from the adjacent rooms. A permanently installed, much more expensive split air conditioner would be the solution to that, but I think it is out of scope here.

These units also take care of the condensation problem at the heat exchanger: They catch the unavoidable condensed water and either collect it in an internal tank (which you have to empty every other day), or guide it to the outside via a small tube (if you have a suitable drain nearby).

For a given total amount of heat to be extracted from the room, these units will be more energy-efficient than your freezer + ice-based cooler combination. And, more importantly, they will be able to deliver much more cooling power, sustained without regular manual intervention -- so they can actually cool a room down (somewhat) if that's what you want to achieve.

[YouCanDoIt]

In the meantime we have learned that you plan to operate your cooler in your home, where mains power is easily available. So I think you should really get something like this (random example from Amazon Italia): https://www.amazon.it/Cecotec-Condizionata-Telecomando-ForceClima-Connected/dp/B0BPZKBGF2



These are proper, heat-pump based units. Like the cooler you intend to build, they pull in air from the room, guide it across a heat exchanger, and blow out cool air through the front grille. But their heat exchanger is not cooled by ice packs which you have to prepare externally, but by a heat pump (like the one in your refrigerator or freezer) which operates permanently.

The heat pump gets rid of the thermal energy it extracts from the room by blowing out hot air through a large-diameter tube connected to the unit's back. You need to guide that hot air to the outside, through a hole in the wall, a cracked-open window or such. That is a weakness of these designs -- they need that "way out" for the excess heat, and will pull warm air into the room to replace the air they blow out, either directly from the outside or from the adjacent rooms. A permanently installed, much more expensive split air conditioner would be the solution to that, but I think it is out of scope here.

These units also take care of the condensation problem at the heat exchanger: They catch the unavoidable condensed water and either collect it in an internal tank (which you have to empty every other day), or guide it to the outside via a small tube (if you have a suitable drain nearby).

For a given total amount of heat to be extracted from the room, these units will be more energy-efficient than your freezer + ice-based cooler combination. And, more importantly, they will be able to deliver much more cooling power, sustained without regular manual intervention -- so they can actually cool a room down (somewhat) if that's what you want to achieve.

Many thanks for the sample link.
In the matter of energy efficiency I should specify that cooling down a whole room is not my main target, but just a challenge that I would like to see if I'm able to win. The main discussion is focused on cooling a whole room due to the complexity of this task, so this, rightly, may have given to you the impression that this is my main and only one target.
In reality, and just from the beginning, all I wanted and expected was to just cool a small area.
People say that it is practically a lost battle and I know this, but why renouncing to the pleasure of fighting?

I evaluated such kind of coolers and apart being twice expensive and the costs to keep them running, there are many other issues and serious issues.
The main issue is their inability to cool down a room and I would be highly disappointed if I pay so much to just realize that what such system has been mainly designed for does not work. If you go through the comments you can see plenty of such reports and even on 8-10 square meters rooms. Running at max power (940W) all of the time and basically with any noticeable effect.
Cooling down a room is not my main target, but even in "Fan mode" I'm still going to pay a good amount of extra money for a feature that I just can't use (at least for sure in my room) and that still have its own impact on bills. There are still so many reasons (I can't list them all) which makes, at least for me, a bad choice.
Condensation handling is another issue, even more with my climate. You can see how, at least under specific conditions, 1 liter of water is filled per hour. My design already handle condensation problem much better and I have more control and available strategies to reduce such issue.
Such units are noisy, not that the air blower motor isn't, but I have several strategies to reduce the issue, some of them already implemented.
Guiding hot air to the outside through a hole in the wall would not even be a big problem, but with an ice cooler I don't even need to take care about this.
You're right, a split air conditioner would solve everything at once, but the goal of such designs is to avoid such systems and still end up with satisfying results.

I'm not sure if you had chance to see my diagram, but you can see that it is designed to be an air-cooler and a beverage cooler on demand (by simply detaching the processing unit). So, I can even use it to store foods and drinks on camping, travels and many other similar situations.

This is another confirmation on how much is subjective this field and why the mixed reviews. It's not that it is junk, it's just that people have different needs and the limitations need always to be carefully evaluated.
DIY solution is also subjective. Some people can just say "I don't want to go through the hassle to build my own". Some other people like me will say that "the hassle to build my own" is what I like more and the fun part.

[tooki]

I must admit I'm surprised about the technology. Freezer exists from decades and they still rely on a temperature sensor that activate the compressor when could be too late (rather than an infrared camera as you said).

Well how else would you do it, if not with a temperature sensor? (The infrared camera thing is a joke; yes, you could do it in theory, but nobody does this, and it’d be expensive.)

I was not aware of the importance to keep the freezer full of frozen foods and liquids for optimum efficiency (mine is, but only at random interval).
Based on this, let me see if the following idea makes sense.
I could ensure that the freezer is all of time completely filled by using an appropriate number of ice bags (which I insert or remove based on the inserted or removed food). I keep ice and food into three separate layers. The food, the ice and a permanent wall made of ice packs between foods and the ice for the cooler. In this way I can build my own ice as I want and without any limit because there is the permanent layer to reduce heat penetration into the food layer.

Absolutely not! “Without any limit”?  Dude… the heat in the water you put in spreads into everything in the freezer. Yes, the stuff closest gets the most, but it gets everywhere. As I said: heat always moves from warmer to colder. So as your ice barrier warms up thanks to absorbing heat from the water you put in on one side, the frozen food (which is colder) then absorbs heat from the ice barrier.

Is it not completely obvious to you how heat spreads? Have you never noticed that if you pour hot coffee into a cold cup, the cup gets hot (and the coffee gets colder)?

I didn't measured the internal size of the big freezer, but if you say it is still not enough, then I have one more reason to stay away from it.
Just confirm me that the following idea is very bad, in this way I will not be tempted:
such freezer is just below the roof. What if I power it on through a solar panel? Supposing I will get the needed energy, I will solve the problem of the high bills, I can get much more ice and no risk of food damage because this will only be an ice maker. Sound to much good and easy to be true! I'm prepared for your bad news!

Sure, if it’s worth the thousands of euros it’d cost to install such a solar installation, assuming your house is even suited for solar.

Regarding the video, I'm afraid I can't comment anymore. I'm sure your critics are well founded and argued, but he is the only one that can respond. You're also saying that his video has been made in a tendentious way with hidden parts that are against its statements. I'm afraid I can't comment this too because it is something that has to do with trust, but what I can say is that your accuses to youtubers are not non sense. There are there people that publish projects that don't work at all, but modified in a way that they seems to be easy and the scoop of the year. I had encountered one, but such kind of fakes are usually easy to detect by the plenty of negative comments (and insults).
To me Fred seemed to be an honest person, he published a second video with more details and step by step instructions and I could only see happy people.
It would be a very interesting debate if Fred could join the discussion. Is there someone who know him and can send an invite?
Just to be clear, in a scenario like this, without the interested person able to replicate, the only honest thing I can do is impartiality. Just want to invite you to be more friendly (calling someone idiot is not what I would call a warm welcome). Same if the guy in the other thread accepts to join the discussion.

I trust you if you say that thermodynamics science can calculate everything, but there are also human factors and other unrelated variables. I think that science, combined with experiments in the field, makes information more valuable, even more when there are criticisms like yours.
It's not that I love youtubers, it's just that I'm open to all sources, even more when they are conflicting.
This, of course, has to be combined with a filtering of what is good and what is bad.
Just for curiosity and some good and innocent irony...you said that youtubers lacks the knowledge (it's your personal opinion and is fine). If tomorrow you becomes a youtuber, you publish a DIY project and I visit your video. How I should consider you?

Well now you’re just being dishonest. I didn’t say anything about YouTubers in general. There are many excellent YouTubers out there whose results I trust. I said that I think this particular one (Fred, apparently) is an idiot, which I stand by based on the content in question. On the slim chance that he does join this discussion, he’s free to call me an idiot if he likes.

I thought I was clear about the GOOGLE FAQ story, but I'm afraid I was wrong and since I've been judged as a poor, naive and without even the minimum common sense, I have in some way to defend myself and enter into details. I have, at least when these are the tones and the words used.

...your blind trust in a Google FAQ (which are frequently completely wrong, by the way), without even making the effort to see if it’s applicable — and at the same time ignoring common sense. Surely you’ve seen bottles with corks over 3 years old?!? The fact that bottles with corks much older than exist, and I’m sure you knew that already, should have immediately made you think “wait a second, that can’t be right.”

You omitted a little detail from the google FAQ:
"Whole wine corks can take up to three years to fully decompose, even in ideal conditions. But you can significantly speed up this process by shredding or cutting them in smaller pieces."
Let me explain a couple of things starting with the reliability of google:
it is never a google error, if this statement is on their search results, then the same statement is also in the related url, always and with no exceptions.
Let me continue with how works my bad common sense:

• If I read that cork can take much less than 3 years to fully decompose when it is cut into smaller pieces and the piece I need is only 8mm, then my common sense is what makes me think "Wait a moment!"
• I don't know why you think the contrary, but I always check the applicability after I read their FAQ. However, common sense says me that it's a waste of time checking such statement validity when this product is not available in the market in the size I need. May be you have a different common sense where you lose time to read papers about the validity of a product even if you can't have that product and that's fine.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the reading of an url, the interlocutor does not respond me with a long message where he accuses me of being a poor, naive and with inexistent common sense (substantially nearly a stupid). Common sense, confirmed each time happens such little mistakes, tells me that  I can simply expect "You're wrong, friend! It's related to composting", followed by a quick "Sorry! Ok, let see the other issue" from my side.
• Common sense tells me that when, for example, I have only 5 minutes left and I am still with an open draft, it is better to complete and send the message if there is no time for the validation
• Common sense tells me that in case of scenarios like the previous point, it is not a tragedy if the validation is delayed and place it in the low priority list.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the validation, the interlocutor understand, by its common sense, that this is just a a simple lack that can occur to anyone rather that getting immediately malicious to a point to think that I just want to prove he is wrong.

I can continue with the list, but I think is enough.

I didn’t “omit” anything. The answer you quoted is irrelevant to the situation at hand, period.

I have seen the Google snippets be wrong because Google summarized it incorrectly. And of course the many times that it replies with an answer to a different question than the one asked. And yes, I’ve also seen it just parrot incorrect answers when the web page is mistaken.

I feel like you have problems to distinguish when some statements are subjective, in particular when they are against your beliefs and you can get so hot to a point to call a person stupid (again, this is how you publicly called Fred) without even knowing him. Personal opinions are questionable and they are not a bad thing. And when you are sure it is not a matter of personal opinions, then you should be happy to proof people are wrong.

I am not having any “problem” with identifying subjective statements. It’s just that it’s obvious to me, and many others here, that you don’t know enough about the subject to identify which of those statements are a) plausible, and b) applicable to you.

As for Fred: he made subjective claims which I think are BS, backed up by measurements that are meaningless. So subjectively, I think he’s an idiot. (If he isn't an idiot, then he’s a liar, which is worse.)

We’ve explained the non-opinion part — the physics — to you extensively, but it’s not sinking in. There has yet to be anything resembling the “ah-ha!” moment in your head where it starts to really make sense. (At least, the only signal we have is your follow-up questions, and from those it doesn’t look like the “ah-ha” moment has happened.)

[tooki]

Many thanks for the sample link.
In the matter of energy efficiency I should specify that cooling down a whole room is not my main target, but just a challenge that I would like to see if I'm able to win. The main discussion is focused on cooling a whole room due to the complexity of this task, so this, rightly, may have given to you the impression that this is my main and only one target.
In reality, and just from the beginning, all I wanted and expected was to just cool a small area.
People say that it is practically a lost battle and I know this, but why renouncing to the pleasure of fighting?

I evaluated such kind of coolers and apart being twice expensive and the costs to keep them running, there are many other issues and serious issues.
The main issue is their inability to cool down a room and I would be highly disappointed if I pay so much to just realize that what such system has been mainly designed for does not work. If you go through the comments you can see plenty of such reports and even on 8-10 square meters rooms.

I’ve seen people use these things by having the hose going out a door or window that is kept wide open. Yeah, it’s gonna struggle like that. But used properly, with the opening sealed as much as possible, with just a small opening to fresh air to come back in, they work great. I have one right now keeping my entire 60 square meter apartment cool even as it is 30C outside. I could run it less if I wanted, by only using it to blow cool air on me.

Condensation handling is another issue, even more with my climate. You can see how, at least under specific conditions, 1 liter of water is filled per hour. My design already handle condensation problem much better and I have more control and available strategies to reduce such issue.

Your design will do fuck-all for condensation because what little humidity it can collect is limited by the very small cooling capacity of your device.

You can test this easily: freeze a bottle of water (or ice pack or whatever). Put the closed bottle into a measuring cup or something. Let it stand in your room until the ice has melted. See the water that has collected in the cup? That’s how much humidity it can extract from the air. Your device can’t do any better than that, per unit of ice. (So multiply that result by however many bottles or packs you will fit in your device.) You will notice that you don’t notice any reduction in how you perceive the humidity, because it’s just not enough cooling power, and just like the heat, the humidity in the air mixes with the surrounding air. You can’t just selectively dehumidify one part of the room.

[YouCanDoIt]

I must admit I'm surprised about the technology. Freezer exists from decades and they still rely on a temperature sensor that activate the compressor when could be too late (rather than an infrared camera as you said).

Well how else would you do it, if not with a temperature sensor? (The infrared camera thing is a joke; yes, you could do it in theory, but nobody does this, and it’d be expensive.)

My surprise comes from the fact that, being programming code a good part of my life, it would be one the more basic implementation something like that. I'm not sure on we can go far without trying, but it would very easy to calculate distance between the different heat sources and implement an algorithm that activates the system at the right time.
I'm not sure on the accuracy (each time I try a new technology I'm surprised to see it does what seemed to be impossible), but combined with AI it could be implemented object detection and adjust the the activation based on a specific food resistance to heat (or fallback to a safe value in case of undetected object).
They probably don't do because is expensive on the hardware side, modern fridges are safer...and there are not many people that want to build so much ice for their cooler!

I was not aware of the importance to keep the freezer full of frozen foods and liquids for optimum efficiency (mine is, but only at random interval).
Based on this, let me see if the following idea makes sense.
I could ensure that the freezer is all of time completely filled by using an appropriate number of ice bags (which I insert or remove based on the inserted or removed food). I keep ice and food into three separate layers. The food, the ice and a permanent wall made of ice packs between foods and the ice for the cooler. In this way I can build my own ice as I want and without any limit because there is the permanent layer to reduce heat penetration into the food layer.

Absolutely not! “Without any limit”?  Dude… the heat in the water you put in spreads into everything in the freezer. Yes, the stuff closest gets the most, but it gets everywhere. As I said: heat always moves from warmer to colder. So as your ice barrier warms up thanks to absorbing heat from the water you put in on one side, the frozen food (which is colder) then absorbs heat from the ice barrier.

Is it not completely obvious to you how heat spreads? Have you never noticed that if you pour hot coffee into a cold cup, the cup gets hot (and the coffee gets colder)?

Oh yes, I know, you don't need to tell me that a white object is obvious that is white, but rather just explain to me why my attempt to make it darker can't work (and you do, I'm honest on this). You like so much common sense and obviousness, so it should be obvious that if I'm trying to make that object darker it's because I already know it's white. You repeat such kind of observations continuously and it's annoying. Do you think can at least reduce the number of times?
I was just wondering if a permanent layer could in some way act as a barrier that reduce heat temperature and make it less dangerous when it reach the food layer. Yes, it expands anyway, my idea was reducing the incoming temperature into the food layer. It makes sense, but what does not make sense is even thinking to it because managing the space in this way would also become more difficult, because there are better strategies and because this is a remote risk.
Here we place multiple hot water bottles inside the freezer all of the times to quickly cold them and we place where it is more convenient included above or between foods and never experienced any food degradation.
You warned me about the risks, the real and concrete risks, but of course you can't tell me when an event like this can occur (you don't know the foods it contains, how much bags I will need to insert, freezing times of that specific freezer, configuration of temps etc).
It's my job to find the right balance once you warned about the risks.
Really thanks for warning me about such and other risks. No one else here has even thought to something like that.
You information are really priceless and they worth even each time I have to see not good thing like being judged as someone who is not even able to recognize even the most obvious things. I accept the deal, but keep in mind that I will respond.

I didn't measured the internal size of the big freezer, but if you say it is still not enough, then I have one more reason to stay away from it.
Just confirm me that the following idea is very bad, in this way I will not be tempted:
such freezer is just below the roof. What if I power it on through a solar panel? Supposing I will get the needed energy, I will solve the problem of the high bills, I can get much more ice and no risk of food damage because this will only be an ice maker. Sound to much good and easy to be true! I'm prepared for your bad news!

Sure, if it’s worth the thousands of euros it’d cost to install such a solar installation, assuming your house is even suited for solar.

Not far from mine there is an house (a new build) with such installation. I think they have done this most because of the government incentives and is probably what I should wait for and check for the bills history to get an idea on the time needed to get the investment back (supposing the current status of the technology allows to close any dependency from the energy providers).

Regarding the video, I'm afraid I can't comment anymore. I'm sure your critics are well founded and argued, but he is the only one that can respond. You're also saying that his video has been made in a tendentious way with hidden parts that are against its statements. I'm afraid I can't comment this too because it is something that has to do with trust, but what I can say is that your accuses to youtubers are not non sense. There are there people that publish projects that don't work at all, but modified in a way that they seems to be easy and the scoop of the year. I had encountered one, but such kind of fakes are usually easy to detect by the plenty of negative comments (and insults).
To me Fred seemed to be an honest person, he published a second video with more details and step by step instructions and I could only see happy people.
It would be a very interesting debate if Fred could join the discussion. Is there someone who know him and can send an invite?
Just to be clear, in a scenario like this, without the interested person able to replicate, the only honest thing I can do is impartiality. Just want to invite you to be more friendly (calling someone idiot is not what I would call a warm welcome). Same if the guy in the other thread accepts to join the discussion.

I trust you if you say that thermodynamics science can calculate everything, but there are also human factors and other unrelated variables. I think that science, combined with experiments in the field, makes information more valuable, even more when there are criticisms like yours.
It's not that I love youtubers, it's just that I'm open to all sources, even more when they are conflicting.
This, of course, has to be combined with a filtering of what is good and what is bad.
Just for curiosity and some good and innocent irony...you said that youtubers lacks the knowledge (it's your personal opinion and is fine). If tomorrow you becomes a youtuber, you publish a DIY project and I visit your video. How I should consider you?

Well now you’re just being dishonest. I didn’t say anything about YouTubers in general. There are many excellent YouTubers out there whose results I trust. I said that I think this particular one (Fred, apparently) is an idiot, which I stand by based on the content in question. On the slim chance that he does join this discussion, he’s free to call me an idiot if he likes.

Sorry tooki, I believed it was your general idea on all youtube stuff and because of the unrealiability due to the fact on how much is easy to fake and hide relevant data to get more views (and money) and this is something becoming always more common. If you know some reliable youtuber whose project can be trusted, feel free to post the related video.
I also think there will be very little chance he join the discussion. I commented its video a month ago and I never got a response, but apparently he responds to users randomly (may be to the lack of time or what else, who know!).
I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).
It would become a very nice discussion if he join!

I thought I was clear about the GOOGLE FAQ story, but I'm afraid I was wrong and since I've been judged as a poor, naive and without even the minimum common sense, I have in some way to defend myself and enter into details. I have, at least when these are the tones and the words used.

...your blind trust in a Google FAQ (which are frequently completely wrong, by the way), without even making the effort to see if it’s applicable — and at the same time ignoring common sense. Surely you’ve seen bottles with corks over 3 years old?!? The fact that bottles with corks much older than exist, and I’m sure you knew that already, should have immediately made you think “wait a second, that can’t be right.”

You omitted a little detail from the google FAQ:
"Whole wine corks can take up to three years to fully decompose, even in ideal conditions. But you can significantly speed up this process by shredding or cutting them in smaller pieces."
Let me explain a couple of things starting with the reliability of google:
it is never a google error, if this statement is on their search results, then the same statement is also in the related url, always and with no exceptions.
Let me continue with how works my bad common sense:

• If I read that cork can take much less than 3 years to fully decompose when it is cut into smaller pieces and the piece I need is only 8mm, then my common sense is what makes me think "Wait a moment!"
• I don't know why you think the contrary, but I always check the applicability after I read their FAQ. However, common sense says me that it's a waste of time checking such statement validity when this product is not available in the market in the size I need. May be you have a different common sense where you lose time to read papers about the validity of a product even if you can't have that product and that's fine.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the reading of an url, the interlocutor does not respond me with a long message where he accuses me of being a poor, naive and with inexistent common sense (substantially nearly a stupid). Common sense, confirmed each time happens such little mistakes, tells me that  I can simply expect "You're wrong, friend! It's related to composting", followed by a quick "Sorry! Ok, let see the other issue" from my side.
• Common sense tells me that when, for example, I have only 5 minutes left and I am still with an open draft, it is better to complete and send the message if there is no time for the validation
• Common sense tells me that in case of scenarios like the previous point, it is not a tragedy if the validation is delayed and place it in the low priority list.
• Common sense tells me that if I omit the validation, the interlocutor understand, by its common sense, that this is just a a simple lack that can occur to anyone rather that getting immediately malicious to a point to think that I just want to prove he is wrong.

I can continue with the list, but I think is enough.

I didn’t “omit” anything. The answer you quoted is irrelevant to the situation at hand, period.

Oh yes, it's irrelevant if the size I needed was the same of the bottles, but let me quote another "irrelevant" answer so that we can put a period and stop discussing about irrelevant things:

...Surely you’ve seen bottles with corks over 3 years old?!? The fact that bottles with corks much older than exist, and I’m sure you knew that already, should have immediately made you think “wait a second, that can’t be right.” But then again you weren’t actually looking for the relevant facts...

Oh yes...much older than 3 years. And for sure you saw such seals around the cork, normally made of aluminium, plastic of what else? And for you sure you know what happens when you open a bottle and remove such seals, right? If you always finish the bottles immediately and you don't know, then let me explain. It starts degradation of the content and you can experience this within 24 hours where effervescence is nearly gone. What's the name of the process ad how interaction with carbon dioxide occurs I don't care. I only care that the internal chemistry of the bottle changes as soon as the seal is opened, with or without the cork reinserted and that's the relevant information.

I have seen the Google snippets be wrong because Google summarized it incorrectly. And of course the many times that it replies with an answer to a different question than the one asked. And yes, I’ve also seen it just parrot incorrect answers when the web page is mistaken.

What I can say here, it has never happened to me (they just copy and paste the extracted content into their faq, I can't see how can occur a mistake in this process). Of yes, it happens (and many times, yes!) that it replies with an answer to a different question than the one asked. One have to play with keywords, terms and the way the question is made. It's boring, I know, but still the faster way to extract the initial relevant information rather then directly opening more urls.

I feel like you have problems to distinguish when some statements are subjective, in particular when they are against your beliefs and you can get so hot to a point to call a person stupid (again, this is how you publicly called Fred) without even knowing him. Personal opinions are questionable and they are not a bad thing. And when you are sure it is not a matter of personal opinions, then you should be happy to proof people are wrong.

I am not having any “problem” with identifying subjective statements. It’s just that it’s obvious to me, and many others here, that you don’t know enough about the subject to identify which of those statements are a) plausible, and b) applicable to you.

As for Fred: he made subjective claims which I think are BS, backed up by measurements that are meaningless. So subjectively, I think he’s an idiot. (If he isn't an idiot, then he’s a liar, which is worse.)

We’ve explained the non-opinion part — the physics — to you extensively, but it’s not sinking in. There has yet to be anything resembling the “ah-ha!” moment in your head where it starts to really make sense. (At least, the only signal we have is your follow-up questions, and from those it doesn’t look like the “ah-ha” moment has happened.)

It's not many others, but one person who saw your accuses before I could even respond and you often wrote by omitting details and in a way that I appears like an idiot (I still want to believe this is not intentionally, although I have to make a lot of efforts). You should speak without involving other persons just like I do. I'm not saying "We (me and Fred) are trying to demonstrate that...".
You should provide a concrete sample when you say that I am enable to identify which of those statements are a) plausible, and b) applicable to me. If you refers to the posted videos (Fred etc) then, this time it's my turn, this is not honest. I never said that posted sources are plausible or applicable to me. I just showed that exists conflicting opinions, not that they are right and I always specified that. The only purpose of sharing a source is investigation and hear the different opinions, but you get immediately suspicious and think to that "Ah-ah! You see tooki? You're wrong..".
This has never been my intention.

With more than an hundred thousand views and hundreds of no negative comments, if no one contested measurements or its statements, then one date of fact is that they are meaningless to you only (or they just are all gullible persons, you might think).
This does not means you're wrong, it's just that if I were you and sure about my arguments, I would use a different statement...may be something like "His measurements does not prove what he is stating unless he provides this and that data".
A friend we have here in the forum didn't agree with the statements he heard from a video I posted and he just said "He is not lying, he is just mistaken". This is a much more safe, honest and humble behaviour.
Oh, yes, I just said that external people should not be involved, but you have already done. So, you gave me one credit and I just redeemed it.
Anyway in a video like that he must have omitted many things, you think because otherwise would prove its false statements while I think just for brevity and make the video more clear and less boring for viewers.
He should have published more data and details in that Facebook conversation, may be you could find the other data you think he omitted. Personally, I don't need.

One interesting thing I noticed. Each time I recognize my faults the first thing I do is asking to accept my apologies, as happened in this and many other messages. You never did it even once and I am not referring to when you called me idiot (being defined like a poor unintuitive, gullible with no common sense = idiot), but I refer in such occasions where you probably think it would be less embarrassing to just skip and ignore. I saw this behaviour more times, but in this specific message it's even more clear because we can still see my defence against your accuse of being a person without even the minimum common sense and how you skipped such section while responding me row by row. I can guarantee you that skipping them is not a way to make them disappear.
I never saw you once, not just accepting that some of your statements could be questionable, but even the open mind that such statements may have different point of views and I don't means statements that have to do with science. Oh yes, there are cases where you opened your mind and revised a bit your thought like for example when you stated that Fred, a person that you don't even know, could not be necessarily an idiot like you initially stated, but a liar. Well, what to say, still better than nothing!
I often see a similar behaviour in religious people, at least in some aspects. They get hot as soon as someone question their believing. They are completely closed mind. They can't withstand any doubt.
Are you a religious guy, tooki?

I'm not defending Fred (as this is what would probably be your replication) and it would be even excessive if I say that I'm defending the respect that deserve every person. I would say I'm more highlighting what to me does not seems an appropriate way to talk about a person that is unable to replicate.

Do not get hot tooki, take this like two good friends that every while likes to tease each other.

[YouCanDoIt]

Many thanks for the sample link.
In the matter of energy efficiency I should specify that cooling down a whole room is not my main target, but just a challenge that I would like to see if I'm able to win. The main discussion is focused on cooling a whole room due to the complexity of this task, so this, rightly, may have given to you the impression that this is my main and only one target.
In reality, and just from the beginning, all I wanted and expected was to just cool a small area.
People say that it is practically a lost battle and I know this, but why renouncing to the pleasure of fighting?

I evaluated such kind of coolers and apart being twice expensive and the costs to keep them running, there are many other issues and serious issues.
The main issue is their inability to cool down a room and I would be highly disappointed if I pay so much to just realize that what such system has been mainly designed for does not work. If you go through the comments you can see plenty of such reports and even on 8-10 square meters rooms.

I’ve seen people use these things by having the hose going out a door or window that is kept wide open. Yeah, it’s gonna struggle like that. But used properly, with the opening sealed as much as possible, with just a small opening to fresh air to come back in, they work great. I have one right now keeping my entire 60 square meter apartment cool even as it is 30C outside. I could run it less if I wanted, by only using it to blow cool air on me.

The linked one is probably the entry level one of the series and the brand also plays another role. The hose connected like that would not even be a problem for me.
I just got mine and probably I'll still have nearly 5 meters at disposition once I take a cut to connect the blower to the processing unit. So, part of stuff needed is already at hand.
I initially thought to integrate a peltier module as an helper that redirect some heat out of the room, but people explained all the issues and I abandoned the idea.
As of now, I have no idea on what could be another possible and suitable alternative. I saw some projects powered by gas, but once I saw the dangers I ran away.

Condensation handling is another issue, even more with my climate. You can see how, at least under specific conditions, 1 liter of water is filled per hour. My design already handle condensation problem much better and I have more control and available strategies to reduce such issue.

Your design will do fuck-all for condensation because what little humidity it can collect is limited by the very small cooling capacity of your device.

You can test this easily: freeze a bottle of water (or ice pack or whatever). Put the closed bottle into a measuring cup or something. Let it stand in your room until the ice has melted. See the water that has collected in the cup? That’s how much humidity it can extract from the air. Your device can’t do any better than that, per unit of ice. (So multiply that result by however many bottles or packs you will fit in your device.) You will notice that you don’t notice any reduction in how you perceive the humidity, because it’s just not enough cooling power, and just like the heat, the humidity in the air mixes with the surrounding air. You can’t just selectively dehumidify one part of the room.

Thanks for the great explanation.
When I said that my design handle humidity better I was not meaning about dehumidification, but to the better way it handles the water created by it. It drops directly into a bigger container and I can pipe it where I want in an automated way without having to deal with it manually and frequently.

This is for sure not the main reason that it made me abandon the idea of buying such device, just like it isn't a concern at all for my cooler. Once I get it running, I will see how much is the impact and if I can improve. And when air is cool, it is harder to feel humidity on the skin.

P.S. I was right about the hose not fitting the blower inlet. I will try with some hot air, but I doubt it will work. In prevision of that, I bought the flange connector with an higher height than the needed. I will cut the part in excess and will us it an adapter.

[IanB]

I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).

Cooling a room down by 10-20 degC is totally unrealistic. Not even a real air conditioner can do that.

I have a whole house air conditioning system with a wall thermostat. When the thermostat switches on, it cools the area down by 2 degF before switching off again. (It switches on 1 degree above the setting, and switches off 1 degree below the setting.) Subjectively, I can say that 80°F (27°C) feels warm, while 76°F (24°C) feels pretty cool. If I cooled the house down from 27°C to 17°C then I would be putting a sweater on, and if it got to 7°C I would have created a refrigerator. I would be wearing a winter coat!

(But keep in mind there is no chance a home air conditioner can cool the room down to 17°C or 63°F. It just doesn't have the ability to do that.)

[YouCanDoIt]

Your design will do fuck-all for condensation because what little humidity it can collect is limited by the very small cooling capacity of your device.

And increasing power-capacity cost money for the hardware and to keep it running.

We have 3 floors and the middle floor is the one with more people that move all around it. Here is where located the only AC of the house and it cools the entire floor in an excellent way.
I'm on the third floor and all of the time I'm on the desk. It does not make sense to cool down the whole room.
Then, I may need to stay for a couple of hours in the first floor. I can just move my cooler there and I'm done. I can't certainly buy another AC for there. Then I go to another location of the home or to a friend home where there is no AC and I bring my cooler with me.

You got the point. There are infinite reasons that made an ice-cooler not just the best, but the only option which make sense and this was something planned from the beginning, but people now are convinced that I want to invent an ice cooler that replicates the same features of a regular AC and this just because I wanted to have the fun to see if I can get the room temperature down and in what amount of degree. So, when I asked for more info it started a very long discussion that is still hot and that I can't control anymore even if I stated multiple times that this is not at all my goal. I reduced my posting in the other thread hoping that will help to slow down.

[YouCanDoIt]

I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).

Cooling a room down by 10-20 degC is totally unrealistic. Not even a real air conditioner can do that.

I have a whole house air conditioning system with a wall thermostat. When the thermostat switches on, it cools the area down by 2 degF before switching off again. (It switches on 1 degree above the setting, and switches off 1 degree below the setting.) Subjectively, I can say that 80°F (27°C) feels warm, while 76°F (24°C) feels pretty cool. If I cooled the house down from 27°C to 17°C then I would be putting a sweater on, and if it got to 7°C I would have created a refrigerator. I would be wearing a winter coat!

(But keep in mind there is no chance a home air conditioner can cool the room down to 17°C or 63°F. It just doesn't have the ability to do that.)

I feel the same sensations at the different temperatures you described.
Going down by 20 makes no sense, even in the hottest area of the US. I just assumed it was just for testing purposes, but once you explained the reasons why can't work, I realized how this is absurd. The only thing I can think of is that he was meaning fahrenheit, but it is still unrealistic. I really don't have any idea. Hope he can join the discussion because I'm really curious.

[tooki]

I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).

Cooling a room down by 10-20 degC is totally unrealistic. Not even a real air conditioner can do that.

I have a whole house air conditioning system with a wall thermostat. When the thermostat switches on, it cools the area down by 2 degF before switching off again. (It switches on 1 degree above the setting, and switches off 1 degree below the setting.) Subjectively, I can say that 80°F (27°C) feels warm, while 76°F (24°C) feels pretty cool. If I cooled the house down from 27°C to 17°C then I would be putting a sweater on, and if it got to 7°C I would have created a refrigerator. I would be wearing a winter coat!

(But keep in mind there is no chance a home air conditioner can cool the room down to 17°C or 63°F. It just doesn't have the ability to do that.)

Huh? A central air conditioning system certainly can do that if it’s adequately sized. My aunt lives in north Florida, where summer temperatures routinely reach 97F/36C with extremely high humidity, and she keeps her house at a frigid 62F/16.5C in the summer. It’s not how I’d want to keep my house, and on visits I have to bundle up (and indeed, my poor grandmother had to go outside every few hours to defrost).

Similarly, a window air conditioner can do it if it’s powerful enough for the room in question.

A homemade ice air conditioner, of course, can’t do anything remotely close to that.

[IanB]

Huh? A central air conditioning system certainly can do that if it’s adequately sized. My aunt lives in north Florida, where summer temperatures routinely reach 97F/36C with extremely high humidity, and she keeps her house at a frigid 62F/16.5C in the summer.

That's impressive. It must be an impressive electricity bill too.

Are houses in Florida heavily insulated? Here in California, houses are no better insulated than a tent. It's hard to keep the heat in in the winter, and hard to keep the heat out in the summer.

[tooki]

Huh? A central air conditioning system certainly can do that if it’s adequately sized. My aunt lives in north Florida, where summer temperatures routinely reach 97F/36C with extremely high humidity, and she keeps her house at a frigid 62F/16.5C in the summer.

That's impressive. It must be an impressive electricity bill too.

Are houses in Florida heavily insulated? Here in California, houses are no better insulated than a tent. It's hard to keep the heat in in the winter, and hard to keep the heat out in the summer.

On the east coast, I would say yes, houses are quite well insulated, and anything built since the 1960s or so will have better insulation still. They have to be, given that you have to deal with winter cold (even in parts of Florida) and sweltering, humid summers (even up north).

For reference, my aunt’s house was built around 1990. No significant difference in construction compared to farther north, other than the lack of basement (since Florida is basically a giant sandbar with groundwater a few feet below the surface, making basements much harder to build).

I don’t really have any experience with the Midwest, but they for sure need good insulation to deal with their brutal winters.

[YouCanDoIt]

I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).

Cooling a room down by 10-20 degC is totally unrealistic. Not even a real air conditioner can do that.

I have a whole house air conditioning system with a wall thermostat. When the thermostat switches on, it cools the area down by 2 degF before switching off again. (It switches on 1 degree above the setting, and switches off 1 degree below the setting.) Subjectively, I can say that 80°F (27°C) feels warm, while 76°F (24°C) feels pretty cool. If I cooled the house down from 27°C to 17°C then I would be putting a sweater on, and if it got to 7°C I would have created a refrigerator. I would be wearing a winter coat!

(But keep in mind there is no chance a home air conditioner can cool the room down to 17°C or 63°F. It just doesn't have the ability to do that.)

Huh? A central air conditioning system certainly can do that if it’s adequately sized. My aunt lives in north Florida, where summer temperatures routinely reach 97F/36C with extremely high humidity, and she keeps her house at a frigid 62F/16.5C in the summer. It’s not how I’d want to keep my house, and on visits I have to bundle up (and indeed, my poor grandmother had to go outside every few hours to defrost).

Similarly, a window air conditioner can do it if it’s powerful enough for the room in question.

A homemade ice air conditioner, of course, can’t do anything remotely close to that.

When I looked the video I become even more surprised to see that it does not even run a closed room. On the top left there is an hallway. He didn't specified the size of room, but at some point in the video we can see the cooler pointed against him. So, I suspect this is how he uses the cooler, as a fan when on an open space like that and as an air conditioner in a small room like a bathroom.
Hope he can join and respond the questions. I have so many...

[tooki]

I hope we have more luck with the other guy especially because of its statements: he was able to cool down the whole room by 10-20C and even more for 8 hours. And he was firm on stating that when I said that from its video to me seemed a couple of degrees (which does not help at all on summer).

Cooling a room down by 10-20 degC is totally unrealistic. Not even a real air conditioner can do that.

I have a whole house air conditioning system with a wall thermostat. When the thermostat switches on, it cools the area down by 2 degF before switching off again. (It switches on 1 degree above the setting, and switches off 1 degree below the setting.) Subjectively, I can say that 80°F (27°C) feels warm, while 76°F (24°C) feels pretty cool. If I cooled the house down from 27°C to 17°C then I would be putting a sweater on, and if it got to 7°C I would have created a refrigerator. I would be wearing a winter coat!

(But keep in mind there is no chance a home air conditioner can cool the room down to 17°C or 63°F. It just doesn't have the ability to do that.)

Huh? A central air conditioning system certainly can do that if it’s adequately sized. My aunt lives in north Florida, where summer temperatures routinely reach 97F/36C with extremely high humidity, and she keeps her house at a frigid 62F/16.5C in the summer. It’s not how I’d want to keep my house, and on visits I have to bundle up (and indeed, my poor grandmother had to go outside every few hours to defrost).

Similarly, a window air conditioner can do it if it’s powerful enough for the room in question.

A homemade ice air conditioner, of course, can’t do anything remotely close to that.

When I looked the video I become even more surprised to see that it does not even run a closed room. On the top left there is an hallway. He didn't specified the size of room, but at some point in the video we can see the cooler pointed against him. So, I suspect this is how he uses the cooler, as a fan when on an open space like that and as an air conditioner in a small room like a bathroom.
Hope he can join and respond the questions. I have so many...

I'm not sure which "he" you are talking about.

An ice-in-a-cooler–based thing is basically a fan that blows slightly cooled air at a thing. I am reluctant to even consider it an air conditioner (since a true air conditioner not only cools but also dehumidifies), not even a weak one. It's not that something like this does not create cool air. It's just that your performance expectations are far, far too high, driven by youtube videos that act as though such things are miracle devices. In reality, if they were a practical way to control household climate, we would use them. The fact that we don't should be a huge red flag.

If you go to Madrid in July, when it's hot as hell, many outdoor cafes and restaurants have misters (things that produce extremely fine water spray) to cool their customers. Those work not by getting the customers wet, but by lowering the temperature of the air.  Because the high ambient temperature and low humidity cause the tiny water droplets to evaporate (change phase from liquid to gas) almost instantly, and that phase change requires lots of energy (absorbing heat from the air), the air temperature has to drop as heat energy is pulled from it. If ice-based air coolers made more sense, Madrid's outdoor cafes and restaurants would have lots of boxes full of ice blowing air through them. But they don't.