Author Topic: Trying to solder correctly  (Read 5949 times)

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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Trying to solder correctly
« on: June 11, 2019, 01:11:23 pm »
I know a lot of folks have given up on me.

https://imgur.com/a/EHAevP1



"It's always too soon to quit."

 

Online Shock

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 02:36:03 pm »
A cry for help? Let us know what tools you are working with. Good solder and flux and a decent iron, preferably a station where you can control the temp, clean shiny copper pcb to solder to, it all helps.

If you want to get better start with the Pace videos. Oldies but goodies.

Basic Soldering
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s&list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837

Rework and Repair
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HKX-GBe_lUI&list=PL958FF32927823D12
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 06:03:05 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline JDubU

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 03:42:33 pm »
I hadn't seen those Pace videos before.  Really good!!
Thanks for posting that link.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 03:46:14 pm »
A cry for help? Let us know what tools you are working with. Good solder and flux and a decent iron, preferably a station where you can control the temp, clean shiny copper pcb to solder to, it all helps.

If you want to get better start with the Pace videos. Oldies but goodies.

Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s&list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837

Thanks. Excellent video and I found a lot more here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5e-XjqHPfA3_9wF3CgY1w

Andy
 

Online Shock

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 06:45:28 pm »
Some of the series are more about rework and specific tools but still interesting. If you liked those videos Marc Siegel has a few Pace videos he did on his channel as well.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3nPgUqeSCmyT19mJm1MUw

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline cur8xgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 06:48:55 pm »
General guidelines for soldering:

Get a foil tip cleaner (not a wet sponge)

Don't try soldering a joint unless you cleaned the tip within the last 2 seconds

Use a temperature controlled iron (doesnt have to be digital..weller irons that use the magnetic style tip temperature control are fine)

Select a tip diameter that makes sense (0603 with a 1/8" wide screwdriver tip is going to make you unhappy)

Use solder diameter that makes sense (0603 with 1/16" diameter solder is going to make you unhappy)

Know when your tip needs to be replaced (solder should wet to a good clean tip instantly)

If it doesn't go well right away, you are doing it wrong. Stop. Think. Don't try to force it.

Using the tip broadside versus stabbing can have dramatically different effects.

Heat the JOINT not the solder. Feed the solder into the hot joint and it will flow. (Sometimes putting a blob of molten solder onto the tip first is a good strategy, but thats a bit more advanced)

Practice makes perfect. Thousands and thousands of people get paid near minimum wage to solder TSSOP every day.  You can do it.

One more thing: if you only practice soldering on through hole vector board or twisted leads in mid-air, you aren't going to get better at soldering anything smaller or more precise..if that matters to you.

 
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Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 08:13:09 pm »
General guidelines for soldering:

Get a foil tip cleaner (not a wet sponge)

Don't try soldering a joint unless you cleaned the tip within the last 2 seconds

Use a temperature controlled iron (doesnt have to be digital..weller irons that use the magnetic style tip temperature control are fine)

Select a tip diameter that makes sense (0603 with a 1/8" wide screwdriver tip is going to make you unhappy)

Use solder diameter that makes sense (0603 with 1/16" diameter solder is going to make you unhappy)

Know when your tip needs to be replaced (solder should wet to a good clean tip instantly)

If it doesn't go well right away, you are doing it wrong. Stop. Think. Don't try to force it.

Using the tip broadside versus stabbing can have dramatically different effects.

Heat the JOINT not the solder. Feed the solder into the hot joint and it will flow. (Sometimes putting a blob of molten solder onto the tip first is a good strategy, but thats a bit more advanced)

Practice makes perfect. Thousands and thousands of people get paid near minimum wage to solder TSSOP every day.  You can do it.

One more thing: if you only practice soldering on through hole vector board or twisted leads in mid-air, you aren't going to get better at soldering anything smaller or more precise..if that matters to you.

I am thinking my current tip needs changing.

https://imgur.com/a/nECo1qS

I have not used bottom tip at all since it's length decreased by about half.

I can not afford an actual temp controlled iron at present.

Andy
 

Offline cur8xgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 08:28:59 pm »
General guidelines for soldering:

Get a foil tip cleaner (not a wet sponge)

Don't try soldering a joint unless you cleaned the tip within the last 2 seconds

Use a temperature controlled iron (doesnt have to be digital..weller irons that use the magnetic style tip temperature control are fine)

Select a tip diameter that makes sense (0603 with a 1/8" wide screwdriver tip is going to make you unhappy)

Use solder diameter that makes sense (0603 with 1/16" diameter solder is going to make you unhappy)

Know when your tip needs to be replaced (solder should wet to a good clean tip instantly)

If it doesn't go well right away, you are doing it wrong. Stop. Think. Don't try to force it.

Using the tip broadside versus stabbing can have dramatically different effects.

Heat the JOINT not the solder. Feed the solder into the hot joint and it will flow. (Sometimes putting a blob of molten solder onto the tip first is a good strategy, but thats a bit more advanced)

Practice makes perfect. Thousands and thousands of people get paid near minimum wage to solder TSSOP every day.  You can do it.

One more thing: if you only practice soldering on through hole vector board or twisted leads in mid-air, you aren't going to get better at soldering anything smaller or more precise..if that matters to you.

I am thinking my current tip needs changing.

https://imgur.com/a/nECo1qS

I have not used bottom tip at all since it's length decreased by about half.

I can not afford an actual temp controlled iron at present.

Andy

Trying to use a dirty tip is pretty pointless..and I don't mean from a convenience or sort of nerdy perspective. It really doesn't work well for soldering and can make even a trivial job almost impossible. I can't tell from the pictures how bad it truly is but in general, if you are trying to make a solder joint and the portion of the tip you are using isn't clean, shiny, and doesn't wet instantly, 90% of your effort is going into dealing with a bad tip and 10% is technique.

 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 11:33:45 pm »
General guidelines for soldering:

Get a foil tip cleaner (not a wet sponge)

Don't try soldering a joint unless you cleaned the tip within the last 2 seconds

Use a temperature controlled iron (doesnt have to be digital..weller irons that use the magnetic style tip temperature control are fine)

Select a tip diameter that makes sense (0603 with a 1/8" wide screwdriver tip is going to make you unhappy)

Use solder diameter that makes sense (0603 with 1/16" diameter solder is going to make you unhappy)

Know when your tip needs to be replaced (solder should wet to a good clean tip instantly)

If it doesn't go well right away, you are doing it wrong. Stop. Think. Don't try to force it.

Using the tip broadside versus stabbing can have dramatically different effects.

Heat the JOINT not the solder. Feed the solder into the hot joint and it will flow. (Sometimes putting a blob of molten solder onto the tip first is a good strategy, but thats a bit more advanced)

Practice makes perfect. Thousands and thousands of people get paid near minimum wage to solder TSSOP every day.  You can do it.

One more thing: if you only practice soldering on through hole vector board or twisted leads in mid-air, you aren't going to get better at soldering anything smaller or more precise..if that matters to you.

All good tips, although I diagree on the foil tip cleaner---I have used a wet sponge for years with no adverse affects.
I tried using the "brass wool" stuff & was completely underwhelmed.
The thing filled up with solder blobs & dust in no time.

Another point I would add is cleanliness.

If the things you are soldering together have dirt, oxidation, finger grease, etc on their surfaces, it is very hard to get a good joint.

The High Reliability Hand Soldering courses I took back in the day suggested using a rubber eraser to clean surfaces, then clean any residue off with solvent (at work, I used IPA, at home plain old Methylated Spirits).

Another thing they said was to clean your solder with solvent on a Kimwipe or similar prior to use, as leaded solder is very prone to surface oxidation.
If you clean some old solder with a Kimwipe (or tissue  or paper towel or sheet off a"dunny roll"), wet with solvent, you will see a lot of black residue which has been removed.
New solder will be a lot better, but will still leave distinct traces.
Another tip was to "nip" any melted end off the solder before each joint, so fresh flux core is exposed.

They were also fond of Liquid Resin Flux (actually, if you use this, you can get away,without the solder snipping).

Unfortunately, my IPad doesn't speak imgur, so I don't know what iron you are using.
If it's one of the very cheap "pretend solder stations" with the uncalibrated knob on the front, you will be in a losing battle to solder.

These things have a plain old "lamp dimmer" circuit, where a Triac conducts over a fraction of the incoming ac waveform to get hotter or less hot, depending on the pot setting.

The main drawback with this idea is that the lower settings are pretty useless, & you will usually have to have them close to maximum to stop them cooling down when soldering, as the tip has very little mass.
Unfortunately, the tip is then too hot, & won't make good joints, quite apart from possibly damaging components.

They may feel quite heavy, but don't be taken in, that's not a transformer-----------they put weights in the case!

I would even recommend a plain old uncontrolled Mains iron over those things!
Ideally, you should have a proper soldering station, with "all the bells & whistles", but a very good substitute is a secondhand Weller WTCP .
These have the "Magnastat" tips, & maintain their temperature very well under load.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 11:37:46 pm by vk6zgo »
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 12:24:01 am »
I saw some used Wellers in the $40 range.

 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 12:43:23 am »
I saw some used Wellers in the $40 range.

That's pretty good--- the last time I bought one was $A40, that was a few years back when the Oz & greenback were pretty much at parity.

Funny, though, back in the 1980s I bought a new one for about $80!
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 12:54:48 am »
Funny, though, back in the 1980s I bought a new one for about $80!

... which was about a quarter of the average weekly wage back then.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 01:49:41 am »
Another vote for the wet sponge, although either can be made to work. I've used those brass wool things before and was not very impressed, they worked well for getting larger bits of crud off but not so much for wiping off the excess solder to leave a nice clean tip.
 

Offline cur8xgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 02:10:45 am »
In regards to the wet sponge:

Professionally I have seen many expert assemblers use a wet sponge and doing fantastic work and rework on tiny pitch high density parts, so yes, it is definitely a real thing that works.

However, personally I don't like it. I don't like things that cool the tip down and require me to rotate the tip in a circle to clean (awkward motion), and I dont like that it needs to be replaced so often. I also don't like wet things around where I'm working on electronics. Sponges collect that solder just as much as anything else so I dont see that as a benefit versus foil. Wet things also grow stuff..

Also having to keep a water bottle with a nozzle on it is just one more thing on a packed workstation and one more thing that can spill or be a problem.

Then you have to buy sponges too.

I bought my Hakko 599B foil cleaner literally 20 years ago and only replaced the foil after maybe 15 years. The container it sits in catches everything so much cleaner than a sponge. Pop the bottom off and dump it every few weeks (months?).  Cleaning the tip means a quick stab or two, you can do it without looking, making keeping a clean tip for every joint much more convenient.

Its a preference thing. Wet sponges work too.

EDIT: And bonus..the hakko fits perfectly snugly right into the space for the sponge, tucked under the iron holder spring, on a weller tc


« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 02:14:13 am by cur8xgo »
 

Offline cur8xgo

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 02:17:44 am »
Oh yeah one more thing....

If you want to make soldering FUN, buy a stereo zoom microscope and a fiber optic light source. Its like disappearing into a teeny city and what seemed very difficult can become very easy.....

Also: A high quality low viscosity liquid flux in a needle dispenser can be like a superpower for super fine pitch parts..solder just pops into place perfectly on multiple pins at once with just a tap
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 02:19:54 am by cur8xgo »
 

Offline Audioguru

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 03:33:32 am »
Fixit7, please post your photos and schematics in your threads here, instead of over ay Imgur who delete them.
 
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Offline soldar

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 08:00:28 am »
I never liked or used the wet sponge. Mostly I use kitchen paper towels folded and I "scrape" the tip as I rotate it and clean it. Even some newspaper will do.

I have never had a temperature controlled iron. I have developed a certain awareness and sense. If the iron has not been used in a while I turn it off or I may blow on it to cool it if I know I will be using it shortly. If I am soldering something that needs more heat I wait a bit if I have just been using it.

I guess having temperature control is nice if you got used to it but I learned without it and now I do not feel the need.

The top advice I would give is (1) make sure the parts are clean - this cannot be stressed enough -  and (2) heat the parts and let the solder flow - you want it to flow and wet the parts well.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Online MarkF

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2019, 08:13:17 am »
I use both sponge and brass wool.
However when I use the sponge, I soak it in water and then squeeze it to wring out all the water that I can.
I would not just pour water on it and start soldering.  As I've seen in some videos.
 
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Offline HB9EVI

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2019, 08:52:25 am »
Since I bought a new Weller station with a compartment for brass wool in the holder, I'm not using anything else anymore. It's doing very well and doesn't cause thermal stress to the tip. Finding the right moisture level on the sponge seems to me like a science by itself.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 10:28:27 am »
Are you using lead free solder? If so, ditch it for real leaded solder. As I mentioned in the other thread, lead free solder is unsuitable for hobby use. It's very difficult to work with and the hazards posed by lead free solder, such as the more nasty flux, greatly outweigh those of lead. Wash your hands after use and you'll be fine.
 

Offline FriedLogic

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 12:35:31 pm »
I saw some used Wellers in the $40 range.

One of the advantages of a good quality used iron is that it can give you access to a range of good quality tips, but you do need to check first since there may not be so much available for old discontinued stuff.

I normally use a damp (not saturated) sponge, but the metal tip cleaner I have leaves a lot more solder spread on the tip, which could be helpful if you have a problem with the tip itself oxidizing.

Using larger diameter solder than necessary can also complicate it.
 

Offline Vtile

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 09:12:20 pm »
I'm again heretic. My foil cleaner is a frying pan stainless steel scrub which is exactly like those sold for the "solder tip cleaning", It is just held in place at the hole of the connection wire spool. Didn't cost "anything" as regular household item and cleans nicely my cheap china iron (Which works as good for the irregular hobby job as the traditional Wellers I have used here and there). Benefit for the stainless steel is that the solder do not attach to it so I just clean the dust under the spool at times.

Minor oxidation of components sitting on the drawers between hobby projects can be taken care with (mildly) activated flux (in solder wire or at bottle).

On the other hand I do not do surface mount components, except some OPs to adapter boards and some dead bugs here and there or transistors between perfboard copper dots.
 

Offline Dabbot

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2019, 03:37:10 am »
Some of the series are more about rework and specific tools but still interesting. If you liked those videos Marc Siegel has a few Pace videos he did on his channel as well.

Excellent content. Loving a lot of the techniques on display here. Even those without the specialized rework tools.

A lot of people consider it a no-no to apply solder to your soldering iron tip, then carry it over to your work to make the joint, but in this video you can see this exact method being used to solder surface mount components.

I think it's important to note that it's all to do with the flux. Normally, any flux in your solder would have mostly boiled off the soldering iron tip by the time you brought it to your joint, but you'll see in the video that flux is separately applied to the pins and pads prior to the joint being made, and so is available to perform its duties in keeping the surfaces clean as solder is wicked from the tip and onto the joints.

Another important and, often overlooked property of flux, is that it modifies the surface tension of solder and allows it to more easily flow / wick / ball up. And this is something to keep in mind if you wonder why you're making joints with peaky bits of solder sticking out from where you pulled the soldering iron away. It's because all the flux has boiled away. A quick touch-up with some flux or fresh solder and it's good.
 

Offline MarkR42

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2019, 09:02:34 am »
I find that veroboard / stripboard which has been in storage for a while gets automagically caked in awful crud which needs to be really really cleaned before the board is usable.

I'd try fine wire wool, then cleaning wipes, once the board is really clean, soldering is much easier (flux good too)

I'm staying out of the brass foil / sponge thing, I use both, use whatever works for you.
 

Offline fixit7Topic starter

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Re: Trying to solder correctly
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2019, 07:35:26 pm »
I find that veroboard / stripboard which has been in storage for a while gets automagically caked in awful crud which needs to be really really cleaned before the board is usable.

I'd try fine wire wool, then cleaning wipes, once the board is really clean, soldering is much easier (flux good too)

I'm staying out of the brass foil / sponge thing, I use both, use whatever works for you.

I found that adding solder to the joints of components you want to remove, works better.

I used some small gauge fine braided wire that I had to wick up the solder.

It is especially needed for the lead free solder.

Waiting for the good stuff I ordered.

1.5mm 2mm 2.5mm 3mm 3.5mm Width 1.5M Length Desoldering Braid Welding Solder Remover Wick Wire

 


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