Electronics > Beginners
Unwanted digital noise (Not the standard noise floor) from studio monitors
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Vildhjarta:

--- Quote from: magic on November 26, 2019, 09:41:27 pm ---Hmm, I expected it to be exactly the same, not louder. Perhaps it's a matter of different resistance of the phono cable vs XLR. You are sure that you touched the ground part rather than some signal input?
https://connector.pinoutguide.com/3_pin_stereo_plug/

--- End quote ---
The noise came anywhere i touched the cable.


--- Quote from: magic on November 26, 2019, 09:41:27 pm ---And there is another possible solution, which may also reduce noise pickup by unbalanced soundcard inputs. That is to modify the USB cable such that it takes its ground from the PC's chassis rather than the motherboard. You would cut open the external isolation of the cable, cut the shielding braid, cut the black wire inside the cable and tie its end to some screw on the chassis. USB will probably tolerate this hack, and the soundcard will have undisturbed connection to earth, coming straight from mains through the PC chassis.

--- End quote ---
Does this apply to firewire cables as well?
The sound card i am using now is connected via firewire through a PCI-mounted firewire controller.

--- Quote from: EEVblog on November 27, 2019, 12:13:51 am ---Googling shows similar reports from others, so yeah, maybe unforgiving Yamaha's.

--- End quote ---
So this suggests that my monitors are very susceptible to ground issues, and not suitable with systems that aren't optimized with "clean" signal management?

I am considering buying myself a decent laptop now for studio recording, and reverting back to my old Bose Companions for the desktop machine.

Do you think this will be a problem if i get a different set of studio monitors?
magic:

--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 06:58:25 am ---The noise came anywhere i touched the cable.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps one more check would be in order: touch the sleeve of the jack with USB and short the tip and ring together with some piece of metal. It should make no difference, or I'm an idiot ;D


--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 06:58:25 am ---Does this apply to firewire cables as well?
--- End quote ---
Yes. The point is to isolate all audio gear from the noisy ground of the PC.


--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 06:58:25 am ---I am considering buying myself a decent laptop now for studio recording, and reverting back to my old Bose Companions for the desktop machine.

Do you think this will be a problem if i get a different set of studio monitors?

--- End quote ---
It's lottery, both on the laptop and minotors front. Unless you can find somebody who reviews equipment and checks for this exact problem. Perhaps the situation is better in pro audio, but among "audiophiles" the standard solution seems to be randomly replacing components like a monkey until noise goes away |O More recently the smarter ones are buying USB isolators.
Vildhjarta:

--- Quote from: magic on November 27, 2019, 08:44:31 am ---It's lottery, both on the laptop and minotors front. Unless you can find somebody who reviews equipment and checks for this exact problem. Perhaps the situation is better in pro audio, but among "audiophiles" the standard solution seems to be randomly replacing components like a monkey until noise goes away |O More recently the smarter ones are buying USB isolators.

--- End quote ---
Well, i tried the exact setup with a Macbook, and there was no noise.
I just find it strange having to modify the components (None of the components are older than like 2 years) in order to make the stuff work, there has to be a simpler solution to this.
I could try to change the PSU and processor, but i am leaning towards having a separate machine just for doing my music, and keeping the desktop as a gaming platform.

Would be really cool to have one of you guys troubleshooting the gear IRL though, too bad i live up in cold Norway ;D
magic:

--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 09:07:36 am ---Would be really cool to have one of you guys troubleshooting the gear IRL though, too bad i live up in cold Norway ;D

--- End quote ---
Write a letter to Santa or hire somebody :P
I do it for free to the extent that it's an opportunity to milk you for data ;D


--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 09:07:36 am ---I just find it strange having to modify the components (None of the components are older than like 2 years) in order to make the stuff work, there has to be a simpler solution to this.

--- End quote ---
The problem is that audio designers have no clue how to deal with noise from computers and computer designers have no clue how to keep noise out of external devices. Exceptions may exist and sometimes even an ignorant designer will get it right, but that's it.

I have a soundcard from a "pro audio" vendor which fails at star grounding. I have a laptop which literally makes noise from its internal speakers when I connect a USB device, they can't even keep filth out of their own circuitry in their own device.

If you want a "simple" (by which it seems you mean "commercial") solution:
1. Buy a USB isolator. Not sure if similar gadgets exist for FW.
2. A CPU with half the power consumption will reduce noise by 6dB.
3. Another few dB if you manage to find a PSU with substantially thicker cabling. Perhaps a bit to be gained from motherboard layout.

Have fun throwing cash at it and experimenting.

Laptops ought to be better even when plugged in because they run on less power. Apple may be OK because they are / used to be popular in the audio crowd so perhaps they care.
Vildhjarta:

--- Quote from: magic on November 27, 2019, 10:34:53 am ---
--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 09:07:36 am ---Would be really cool to have one of you guys troubleshooting the gear IRL though, too bad i live up in cold Norway ;D

--- End quote ---
Write a letter to Santa or hire somebody :P
I do it for free to the extent that it's an opportunity to milk you for data ;D


--- Quote from: Vildhjarta on November 27, 2019, 09:07:36 am ---I just find it strange having to modify the components (None of the components are older than like 2 years) in order to make the stuff work, there has to be a simpler solution to this.

--- End quote ---
The problem is that audio designers have no clue how to deal with noise from computers and computer designers have no clue how to keep noise out of external devices. Exceptions may exist and sometimes even an ignorant designer will get it right, but that's it.

I have a soundcard from a "pro audio" vendor which fails at star grounding. I have a laptop which literally makes noise from its internal speakers when I connect a USB device, they can't even keep filth out of their own circuitry in their own device.

If you want a "simple" (by which it seems you mean "commercial") solution:
1. Buy a USB isolator. Not sure if similar gadgets exist for FW.
2. A CPU with half the power consumption will reduce noise by 6dB.
3. Another few dB if you manage to find a PSU with substantially thicker cabling. Perhaps a bit to be gained from motherboard layout.

Have fun throwing cash at it and experimenting.

Laptops ought to be better even when plugged in because they run on less power. Apple may be OK because they are / used to be popular in the audio crowd so perhaps they care.

--- End quote ---
I see, i think i might have an improper impression of the hardware available. I always thought that the big and known companies had these things sorted out when shipping their products, and that my case now was an exception, but if these setups usually need fine tuning and not just plug and play i suppose i should do some unorthodox procedures in order to remedy the issue.
So, instead of the "okay, there is noise, something is wrong until it disappears completely" i should adopt the "okay, there is noise, optimize every component until it is as minimal as possible" regarding audio gear. The fact that it isn't on or off when it comes to interference, just various degrees of it.
Luckily i enjoy learning new stuff and geeking out, just sucks a tad when the subject matter is my gateway for doing my biggest hobby.

Should i get myself a DMM, or are there any other gadgets useful here? :)

Thanks again to everybody who contribute here!
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