what an oscilloscope recommended for a woman passionate about electronics?

[magic]

This seems like a case of missing functionality. And if you find some way to completely "ignore" a thread, chances are that it could also disappeas from board listings and the like.

Solution: don't post in stupid threads in the first place
Oh, wait

[5U4GB]

It scared me when my grandson had to take Differential Equations last semester.  I struggled with it back in college because, among other things, we didn't have much beyond a slide rule to work with them.

Resurrecting a rather old thread, if you struggle with calculus then I would highly recommend Silvanus Thompson's "Calculus made Easy", which I discovered about thirty years after I really needed it unfortunately.  It's the first explanation of calculus I've seen that actually makes sense, rather than just "do this and this and then this drops out".  If the author hadn't died more than a hundred years ago I'd buy him a beer.

In terms of recommending it, it's a significant improvement on any calculus text written since then, including, probably, this one.

[rstofer]

No struggles with Calculus and I have both variants of "Calculus Made Easy" (with and without Martin Gardner's comments) - great book.  I actually prefer the infinitesimals discussion to the limits.  Solving a quadratic equation just seems straight forward.  However, I'm in no position to change history.

The thing about differential equations is that every solution starts out with "assume a solution of <insert expression here>" and I just didn't have enough imagination.  I got through just fine but I didn't walk away thinking the process was well understood.

Once I got into analog computing, things became a lot more clear.  Just keep integrating until the differential terms disappear and implement the resulting equation(s) with initial conditions.  Integrators are the things that analog computers are made of (and for).

[5U4GB]

For people interested in the thread material, now that you've already read right through to the end there's another great source of information similar to some of what's on here, a follow-along-at-home tutorial series on using DSOs that covers a lot of what's been discussed here in tutorial format.  I found it really helpful in updating my CRO-based knowledge.

[EPAIII]

First a scope is a scope. I fail to see what your gender has to do with it. But perhaps you see something I don't.

New vs. used? The prices for new digital scopes today are so reasonable that I see little reason for buying used as a first scope. Perhaps later when you know more about what you might be getting into, but I would not recommend a used one now.

The repair of basic level things don't really require a scope. I worked for 55+ years in electronic repair on many levels, often as the best in the house, and can honestly say that 95% of my repairs were accomplished with analog VOMs. There is nothing magic about a scope. What is needed is a very good appreciation of Ohms Law.

4 vs 2 channel? Again, 55+ years of experience and I never used a 4 channel scope.

200 to 300 USD. A lot of very good entry model scopes can be purchased in that range. No need to strain your budget.

Bandwidth? 20 Mhz? 50 Mhz? 100 Mhz? 150 Mhz? 200 Mhz? What are you going to work on? Microprocessors or full blown computers? I can tell you right now that you are not going to figure out a lot just looking at a processor pin wiggle up and down at any of those rates. All you really see is if it is wiggling or not. And a logic probe can tell you that. Audio? We are talking KHz, not Mhz. Base band video? 20 Mhz is probably enough for all but the highest HD video. AC power equipment? 50 or 60 Hz - no Khz, no Mhz, no GHz there.

However, in many digital circuits the bandwidth of the circuit can be important. A high band width scope can allow you to see the rise and fall times of digital signals and thereby know if they may be rounded off too much for proper operation.

So for a beginner I would not get too wound up in all those nice sounding specs. Now, there are some things that MAY help with specific things. Some scopes, even beginner level scopes offer things like the ability to decipher various digital signals. But different digital signals do use different protocols so a "filter" that reads one type of signal will only show garbage on others. And there are hundreds of digital protocols out there. So if you are interested in any particular ones, look for them in your selection. But don't expect one scope to read them all unless it costs a king's ransom.

Another thing that can be important is triggering. In order to see a signal, the trace on the scope must start at a point just before it occurs. How is this done? With repetitive signals a trigger can be delayed from the previous instance of the signal. With digital scopes, the signal itself can act as the trigger if the observed values before it are stored for use when that trigger arrives. This is a great advantage of digital scopes over many/most analog ones. And many times you may wish to see events that only occur at long and possibly random intervals. They can be very challenging.

The ability to see low level signals can be important in some kinds of work.

Be sure that whatever scope you choose, to get some 10X probes for it. The 10X probe attenuates the signal level by that amount, but it usually allows a much higher bandwidth to be displayed. It is the de-facto standard probe for most work.

thanks 
-avgrespondic: i would like to buy new, I prefer
I try to fix anything on a basic level: audio device if don't start, any household appliance, power supply... nothing difficult.
my intention is to start studying the oscilloscope starting from the basics 

-Sahko123: but ds1054z is 4 channel, is not inconsiderate for me? 2 channel is not sufficient? 

-tgzzz: thanks for warning! in general I am very attentive to safety, Every time before operating I discharge the capacitors using my special kit.
 I will be well informed on the use of the probes 

-rstofer: as price range I had indicated rigol 1052 or max 1202z-e (similar price..)
The siglent 1104 it's too much money for me 
I don't make electronic plans.. I only do troubleshooting on the electronic boards
Now I only use multimeter and power supply bench, but I would like to learn to find faults also using the oscilloscope.

I would like to understand:
- for my use, is not sufficient 2 channel?
-for my budget, the bandwidth range is 50 to 200 max mhz... with 200 mhz I have many more possibilities (compared to 100mhz?)
 For example the microprocessors in my amplifier work a 20mhz..

I want to start playing with the oscilloscope from the simplest things, your buying advice is very useful

Charlotte 

[Gyro]

@EPAIII: You do realise that you are responding to a post that is nearly 3 years old?

[BillyO]

Do scopes have gender specific parameters or qualities?

[magic]

No, but you get more responses that way

[tautech]

Do scopes have gender specific parameters or qualities?

No but sellers are more responsive. 
Gals buying test equipment are few and far between however they are the potential mothers of tomorrows engineers and as such should get all the support we can offer........a bit like woman shooters, rare breeds worthy of respect.

[BillyO]

....a bit like woman shooters, rare breeds worthy of respect.

Not here in NA.  There are lots of lady shooters.  Check out Hanna Barron over on YT.

Maybe Siglent could take a page out of Radio Shacks book and produce "Flavor Scopes" in dashing colours like Chocolate, Strawberry, Blueberry, Vanilla, Lime, Watermelon and Grape!

[CharlotteSwiss]

Is everything okay Tautech? I had looked on the Siglent.eu website, but the latest firmware available is 1.3.26.
While on the Siglent.com website it is 1.3.27.
Is there an explanation for the lack of new firmware on the European site?
Thanks

[tautech]

Is everything okay Tautech? I had looked on the Siglent.eu website, but the latest firmware available is 1.3.26.
While on the Siglent.com website it is 1.3.27.
Is there an explanation for the lack of new firmware on the European site?
Thanks

^^ is not the official Siglent EU website, instead a dealer......yes it is confusing.
Here is the Siglent EU source for the firmware, note the subtle URL difference. 
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/14483/?tmstv=1700356775

[CharlotteSwiss]

Is everything okay Tautech? I had looked on the Siglent.eu website, but the latest firmware available is 1.3.26.
While on the Siglent.com website it is 1.3.27.
Is there an explanation for the lack of new firmware on the European site?
Thanks

^^ is not the official Siglent EU website, instead a dealer......yes it is confusing.
Here is the Siglent EU source for the firmware, note the subtle URL difference. 
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/14483/?tmstv=1700356775

Thanks, I always looked at sito.eu.
I will update the FW as soon as possible, I didn't think they had made further updates.
However satisfied with the Siglent brand.

[CharlotteSwiss]

In the channel settings of my Siglent, I see that there is also a possible limitation of the band to 20Mhz. What would be the usefulness of this function? Since I almost only measure signals below 20 MHz, should I always leave the 20 MHz band limit activated? Any help? Thank you

[CatalinaWOW]

That switch limits high frequency noise on the display, and is intended for people like you who work at lower frequencies.  You should probably leave it on most of the time.  But be aware that it is not uncommon for circuits intended to operate at low frequencies to have parasitic oscillations which can have I'll affects on lower frequency operation.  If you find unexplainable behavior in your circuits it is worth flipping the switch and looking.

[BillyO]

That switch limits high frequency noise on the display, and is intended for people like you who work at lower frequencies.  You should probably leave it on most of the time.  But be aware that it is not uncommon for circuits intended to operate at low frequencies to have parasitic oscillations which can have I'll affects on lower frequency operation.  If you find unexplainable behavior in your circuits it is worth flipping the switch and looking.

Unless you are trying to match some ancient and no longer relevant engineering spec (like testing power supplies @ 20MHz) what advantage would anyone receive by limiting BW?  Sweeping noise under the rug? 

[BillyO]

In the channel settings of my Siglent, I see that there is also a possible limitation of the band to 20Mhz. What would be the usefulness of this function? Since I almost only measure signals below 20 MHz, should I always leave the 20 MHz band limit activated? Any help? Thank you

Generally not needed.  It's there for an old engineering specification for measuring noise and ripple on power supplies and dates from a time when the best scope you could get your hands on were 20MHz and the equipment you were powering would not be bothered by such high frequency noise.  Think of the world prior to the 1970's.  Engineer's, especially those working for power supply companies, hate to give up specifications, especially when they work in their favor.

Unless you want to eliminate noise from your measurements/waveform that you are okay with, leave your scope on full bandwidth.

[Zenith]

It's one of those features, such as LF, HF or line triggering on analogue scopes, which sometimes had a bandwidth limiting filter as well. Depending on what you are doing, you might find they are extremely useful, or you never use them. Play around with it and see what it actually does. Bear it in mind and use it when it offers an advantage. You might find there are times when you want to get rid of nuisance noise. I'd guess you won't use it that much.

The problem with this type of thing is that you can forget you've set them, which can cause some head scratching on occasion, until you remember they've been set.

[CharlotteSwiss]

Thanks guys, very kind.
So I don't activate this bandwidth limitation and live in peace. I will let the oscilloscope receive the entire frequency band (200Mhz). Small deviation: while on the Micsig differential probe there is a button to limit the band to 5Mhz, but in this case I believe that for lower signals it is better to activate it, so I have a much cleaner and less noisy signal. Of course if there were peaks every now and then beyond that, I would lose them... 

[watchmaker]

For people interested in the thread material, now that you've already read right through to the end there's another great source of information similar to some of what's on here, a follow-along-at-home tutorial series on using DSOs that covers a lot of what's been discussed here in tutorial format.  I found it really helpful in updating my CRO-based knowledge.

This is EXACTLY what I have been looking for.  THANKS!!  Maybe should be a sticky???

[BillyO]

So I don't activate this bandwidth limitation and live in peace. I will let the oscilloscope receive the entire frequency band (200Mhz).

Small deviation: while on the Micsig differential probe there is a button to limit the band to 5Mhz, but in this case I believe that for lower signals it is better to activate it, so I have a much cleaner and less noisy signal. Of course if there were peaks every now and then beyond that, I would lose them... 

That depends.  One uses a differential probe to see differential signals.  If the DUT is immune to differential signals above 5MHz, then by all means limit the BW to "clean" up the display.  If it can be bothered by those signals you want to see them.


You may have answered this question before, but what sort of thigs do you use your scope for?  What realm are you working in - audio, radio, digital or all of these?

[tautech]

It's one of those features, such as LF, HF or line triggering on analogue scopes, which sometimes had a bandwidth limiting filter as well. Depending on what you are doing, you might find they are extremely useful, or you never use them. Play around with it and see what it actually does. Bear it in mind and use it when it offers an advantage. You might find there are times when you want to get rid of nuisance noise. I'd guess you won't use it that much.

The problem with this type of thing is that you can forget you've set them, which can cause some head scratching on occasion, until you remember they've been set.

Not so much as these settings are clearly displayed in the channel and other tabs.
Default will of course turn all these OFF and return the scope to its factory default state however with these Siglent models you can set a User Default to return the scope to your favoured settings.

If by chance you require a # of preferred settings this can be accomplished saving a Setup file to internal or external memory to be recalled at will.
This offers an unlimited # of custom setup files for specific needs.

[CatalinaWOW]

That switch limits high frequency noise on the display, and is intended for people like you who work at lower frequencies.  You should probably leave it on most of the time.  But be aware that it is not uncommon for circuits intended to operate at low frequencies to have parasitic oscillations which can have I'll affects on lower frequency operation.  If you find unexplainable behavior in your circuits it is worth flipping the switch and looking.

Unless you are trying to match some ancient and no longer relevant engineering spec (like testing power supplies @ 20MHz) what advantage would anyone receive by limiting BW?  Sweeping noise under the rug? 

Any time you use a filter you are "sweeping noise under the rug".  If you have 100 mV of noise in the 20-100 MHz band it can impair your examination of 5 mV noise in the audio band and also impair examination of small signals in the audio band.  Filtering at 20 MHz still passes the tenth harmonic of the highest audio signals so has no material harm to signal integrity. 

Thought is required in using this switch, but it does have value and purpose beyond checking power supplies to ancient specs.

[BillyO]

Any time you use a filter you are "sweeping noise under the rug".

Not to put too fine a point on it, but in this context yes.  You are not getting rid of the noise, you are just putting it out of sight.

If you have 100 mV of noise in the 20-100 MHz band it can impair your examination of 5 mV noise in the audio band and also impair examination of small signals in the audio band.  Filtering at 20 MHz still passes the tenth harmonic of the highest audio signals so has no material harm to signal integrity.

Yeah, I think I said that.  20MHz - 100MHz is not going to affect audio  equipment to any great extent.  Re-read my comments.  That said, if you have 100mV of HF noise on your 5mV audio signal you probably have a potentially serious issue somewhere that needs attention.  Like an amplifier stage that's gone into oscillation.  That's why it's not such a good idea to "leave it on all the time" to hide stuff like that.

[Zenith]

Thanks guys, very kind.
So I don't activate this bandwidth limitation and live in peace. I will let the oscilloscope receive the entire frequency band (200Mhz). Small deviation: while on the Micsig differential probe there is a button to limit the band to 5Mhz, but in this case I believe that for lower signals it is better to activate it, so I have a much cleaner and less noisy signal. Of course if there were peaks every now and then beyond that, I would lose them... 

There is no blanket answer; yes it's great, always use it, or no it's poison, never use it. It's a feature which may be useful, and to use the scope to best effect you have to be aware of these possibilities and their limitations. Experiment with it, so you know what it does, and use it at need, which I suspect will rarely arise.

Tek 475s have a bandwidth filter; 200 MHz, the default, 100MHz, which gives a cleaner display, and 20MHz which gives a very sharp display. It could be useful in certain circumstances. I think most people learn to live with the slight fuzziness of a Tek 475 and regard it as part of the charm of the instrument.