EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Beginners => Topic started by: nightfire on October 01, 2022, 08:22:36 pm
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Situation: At home, I have some nice multimeters I really love much. Buch as a good son, sometimes when visiting my mom that is a few hours away, i do some minor repairs at her place. And as i want to pack light, I would like to have some simple multimeter there available to check for stuff when repairing broken wall outlets or hanging up some lights.
I also have thought about some voltage tester (Duspol in germany), but a DMM is a bit more versatile, measures batteries and is able to have some thermocouple attached, which i could use when working on some heating-related stuff.
Anyway, I would like to buy a DMM in the price range of up to 40 € in germany, that will be used for the following things:
- checking for 230V AC in wall outlets or ceiling outlets for lights
- checking batteries voltages (including hearing aid batts)
- checking resistance to determine broken wires, also in appliances
Accuracy is no big concern, and basically some 4000-6000 count DMM would fit the bill.
As I want to measure wall outlets, the important point for me is the input protection that is really present, and not only printed as CAT X on the case...
So CAT III should be the deal I need here, with some decent parts inside.
Backlight would be nice, as sometimes the corners I work in are a bit dim, and K-type thermocouple would be a nice addition. Due to the costs of gas this year optimizing the heating yields some savings...
Amps range shall be fused on all inputs.
Autorange is not required.
Question here:
Which models of the usual suspects would fit in here, that are known to have some working input protection at the level of 230VAC wall outlets?
(The infamous 830 series of multimeters you can still get dirt cheap obviously do not have those)
A short look on ebay yiels some Uni-T 139 models, that theoretically fit the bill- what about the other suspects, like Aneng or Kaiweets?
Any experience with the other options in the mail order supply chain like Amazon, where lots of el cheapo stuff with some fantasy names resides?
Buying used is actually no real option, as on ebay you pay significantly more that 50 € for some 30 year old Fluke.
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EUR20-40 is very unlikely for a genuine CAT III. A proper Electrician's Voltage tester (as you mentioned) is probably the cheapest way to get a decent rating.
The UT139 is supposed to be pretty good but breaks your own price target I think. Is there any way you could persuade yourself into a Fluke 101? It's small enough to pocket and you need have zero safety concerns (other than your own handling of the probes).
[EDIT: The Fluke 101 has no current range, but it's a dodgy thing to be doing on mains anyway, at least with ordinary probes]
I would remove temperature from your list of DMM constraints by picking up a cheap TM-902C from ebay. They do a better job than a DMM with thermocouple anyway and have much greater battery life if you want permanent display for a few days.
Just some thoughts.
P.S. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/)
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Yes, thats what I also am afraid of, that lots of the dirt cheap DMMs have improper MOV/VAR equipped and things like laser cutouts on the PCB are omitted in the series due to costs.
Sadly a Fluke 101 is also not really available on ebay at decent price, but thinking of it, I usually do not need the Amps range for the stuff I am doing there.
So some credit-card like DMM would theoretically be sufficient.
The Brymen BM27s (Welectron germany) or the Hioki credit-card line of multimeters would also fit that bill, but on the very upper end of what I would have liked to spend...
(Yes, I could afford some multimeter in the 100s range, but for the 3 times a year I would use this for non-precision work, I try not to blow unnecessary money away)
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I would expect any multimeter from a reputable brand which is in that price range ought to be good enough. Do you have Farnell, RS or Mouser in Germany? They will all probably ship there from the UK/UK/USA but that might be pricey. Anything they sell around £30 to £50 should give reliable voltage readings, current and resistance. And will, one assumes, be safe enough for any voltage it can measure ( mine apparently goes to 600V max, I've never used in above 24V, label says CAT IV and this isn't an unpronouncable brand sold on ebay/amazon). Not sure if this grade of device meets your counts desires, but it is definitely good enough for getting the kinds of measures you mention you want to take. At this price you'll usually get autoranging but also be able to switch to manula ranging modes via various buttons.
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Anyway, I would like to buy a DMM in the price range of up to 40 € in germany, that will be used for the following things:
- checking for 230V AC in wall outlets or ceiling outlets for lights
- checking batteries voltages (including hearing aid batts)
- checking resistance to determine broken wires, also in appliances
Accuracy is no big concern, and basically some 4000-6000 count DMM would fit the bill.
Do you need to measure the voltage, or only determine that AC mains voltage is present? If the latter then a 1-bit meter is sufficient. Search for "Fluke Non Contact Voltage Detector".
Then you can use any old piece of rubbish for batteries and continuity.
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I am unsure why you think CAT III is needed; for outlets and light fixtures you won't need anything higher than CAT I.
In this case, you shouldn't have a problem with a reasonably cheap multimeter. The lowest model I have seen that is reasonably well built is the Richmeters RM113D. A bit upper in the scale with beefier fuses and a bit more proper electrical design is the aforementioned UT139C. However, both are not very forgiving to mistakes but are more or less in the ballpark of price.
Another that is reasonably well built is the UT89X - it has a similar input circuitry as the RM113D but it is mechanically superior. It is manual range and I personally find the gap between ranges is very small for my taste, but is has an excellent automatically backlight, which means it will not turn off in the worst time.
Good luck in your search!
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Regarding wall outlets: Basically I want to determine that there is NO voltage on them, before I disassemble them ;-)
And this is the moment where NCV (Non contact voltage detection) simply does not provide the level of safety I want to have.
(I might have to add that my employer is active in the field of electrical safety and we have an own branch for training industrial customers, so my view regarding work safety is a bit biased, to say the least...)
With current regulations, a wall outlet is in the CAT II zone, with powerful distribution grid maybe even in CAT III:
https://www.fluke.com/en/learn/blog/safety/multimeter-guide (https://www.fluke.com/en/learn/blog/safety/multimeter-guide)
In the case of the apartment of my mum, which was built somewhere in the 1960s, I would think that CATII would apply regarding the old installation there.
This gives some piece of rest in the mind, but nonetheless the meter should be manufactured in a budget, but not crappy way.
@rsjsouza: What do you mean with "both are not very forgiving to mistakes"? Respectively, which kind of mistakes?
I also had some eye at the UT 139C on the very upper end of my price range that is available from german resellers.
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I personally haven't had trouble with any, but other people commented on my channel that they have damaged their UT139C meters by selecting the wrong range (ohms, capacitance) and went to measure outlets. I know no other data (voltage, if they rotated the switch with voltage apllied, etc.).
The RM113D has a less beefy input when compared to the UT139C and showed some instability when I applied ~90Vac on its inputs on invalid ranges (ohms IIRC). I would use it only on household installations as the energy is relatively small and the meter is mechanically cery reasonable. A similar candidate is the Mestek DM91A, but it has a too slow continuity.
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Ok, thank you for the clarification!
Well, that is basically some case of accidental wrong handling, but a reasonable DMM should survive 230VAC on the ohms range- but: as I usually know what I am doing there, and my hands would not go black after such an incident judging from some other tests (video of John Smith on youtube with the 139C and his torment tests) this would be no dropping criteria for me.
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The UT133A is in your budget from TME and seems to meet your requirements, but note that it is not TRMS (which shouldn't bother you, but...)
Whether it has the input protection components installed may be a crapshoot given UNI-T's history, but this user found them all in place. I think your country takes these things a bit more seriously than some others. Buyer beware is the rule here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-a-surprisingly-good-uni-t-multimeter-teardown-and-serial-com-upgrade/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hacking-a-surprisingly-good-uni-t-multimeter-teardown-and-serial-com-upgrade/)
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There are two stickies over in the Test Equipment forum. One talks about a LOT of meters from a LOT of companies and the other gets into whether they meet their labelled safety standard.
In my view, the DMM is the absolute worst possible tool for mains work. I will always trust the NCV that I tested on a known live outlet before and after I verified that the outlet I am working on is deenergized. But the key is to test on a known live outlet before and after the real test. Particularly if the unit has an on-off capability. I have a couple of NCV plus at least 2 DMMs with the feature so I do use them from time to time.
I spent my entire career using a solenoid style tester. I can feel the tester jump in my hand (especially on 480V 3 Phase) in addition to the indication on the scale. I did electrical work at one level or another, not much electronics.
https://electricalparts.com/products/knopp-14460 I haven't chased down lower priced units because absolutely nobody that isn't in the trade will use such a tester.
Again, the requirement is to test the tester before and after testing the circuit being worked on.
And then there is the Lock Out - Tag Out process. Maybe not a big deal on residential work because you pretty much control the environment (if you are working alone) but a huge deal in industry. At my advanced age, I'm not sure I would trust a working partner even for residential work. Locks are cheap...
Why I dislike DMMs for mains work: I want my eyes focused on where my hands and the probes are going. There may not even be a way to mount the DMM if the outlet box isn't metal and the meter outfitted with a magnetic strap. So, it's dangling from the probe leads and may not even be readable. In general, I am testing for presence, not the absolute value. I don't usually even care about the reading.
The NCV tester may not be loud enough for the environment. Aircraft plants get a bit noisy. They're probably ok for residential and I use one all the time but it seems questionable for a tester to have an on-off switch or pushbutton. Pre and post testing is absolutely required less the thing turn off half way through the procedures.
The solenoid tester jumps and buzzes and one probe is mounted to the body during use. I can see where I'm probing and I can feel the result. Often, there will be a little spark at the probe tips and that's kind of a clue. I don't have to look at the scale but, if I do, it's right in my hand - where my eyes can keep track of things. And no on-off switch!
Just my opinion, others will vary. And most people will use a DMM anyway. Some have NCV capabilities and that's way better than just an LCD display.
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Ok, thank you for the clarification!
Well, that is basically some case of accidental wrong handling, but a reasonable DMM should survive 230VAC on the ohms range- but: as I usually know what I am doing there, and my hands would not go black after such an incident judging from some other tests (video of John Smith on youtube with the 139C and his torment tests) this would be no dropping criteria for me.
You are welcome.
One aspect that I usually repeat is that accidents usually happen when you are tired, rushed or is otherwise lacking the proper attention to the task. I can do most of the activities around the house with an 830 clone (and millions of people do around the world) and will survive through all of them unscathed, but one misstep and it is easier for the clone to react poorly than a more properly built meter. That is why I also emphasize the mechanical aspects of the meter: I would rather take a Simpson 260 built like a tank than a flimsy built but properly CAT-rated DMM (they exist - I have seen quite a few).
Since I (and you) have access to better equipment, we choose to reduce the risks by increasing the budget.
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Hi nightfire,
After reading your post, the first meter that came to my mind is UT60EU. It meets almost all your requirements. It is available at TME for about 40 Euros at https://www.tme.com/pk/en/details/ut60eu/portable-digital-multimeters/uni-t/ (https://www.tme.com/pk/en/details/ut60eu/portable-digital-multimeters/uni-t/)
Its uA range doesn't have fuse but PTCs. I am not sure how well it'll work in this range. The A range is fused. The good thing about current measurement is that it'll work from 1mA to 10A on the same socket and switch position.
Regarding the protection, at least the circuitry and parts are there but I am not sure if they'll work or not. Since your area will be CAT II, I can only speculate they'll not disappoint in the time of need because the return path from MOVs to COM is very small. But in reality it is a ridiculous statement.
If you would like something with manual ranging, I would suggest UT890C. I like it only because it has more current ranges for both AC and DC than many others. It has the protection circuitry built in but the MOVs are not installed. Otherwise it also covers your requirements. Again available from TME for less than 30 Euros at https://www.tme.eu/de/en/details/ut890c/portable-digital-multimeters/uni-t/ (https://www.tme.eu/de/en/details/ut890c/portable-digital-multimeters/uni-t/)
The inside picture is also attached below, taken from a video on Youtube.
UT60 series is 9999 counts but UT890 series is 6000 counts.
I could not find a decent enough inside picture of UT60EU that is why there is a picture of UT60BT from another angle. The only difference between the two is BT module.
You can find its user manual at https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut60-series/ (https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut60-series/)
And if you would like to see it in action check out the video below. It also contains a complete teardown of the device. The attached picture was taken from this video. The video is for BT version the the non-BT behaves exactly the same except there is no BT in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZT9yFeTcZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZT9yFeTcZk)
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Anyway, I would like to buy a DMM in the price range of up to 40 € in germany, that will be used for the following things:
- checking for 230V AC in wall outlets or ceiling outlets for lights
- checking batteries voltages (including hearing aid batts)
- checking resistance to determine broken wires, also in appliances
Accuracy is no big concern, and basically some 4000-6000 count DMM would fit the bill.
Do you need to measure the voltage, or only determine that AC mains voltage is present? If the latter then a 1-bit meter is sufficient. Search for "Fluke Non Contact Voltage Detector".
Then you can use any old piece of rubbish for batteries and continuity.
I'm sorry, but I really must take issue with the assertion that a Non Contact Voltage Detector is suitable for proving dead on an electrical outlet or fitting - that is not correct. This goes against the HSE directive for safe isolation, OSHA and NFPA 70E Standard for Electrical Safety, and other safety standards depending on geographical location. Even the Fluke site says that non-contact testers are useful for initial indication but must be followed up with a proper direct contact measurement to prove dead.
A suitable, compliant, tester must be capable of giving a live voltage indication in the absence of an internal battery - which excludes non-contact on that metric alone, even before the lack of direct contact issue.
The correct procedure is to prove the contact tester on a proving unit or known live source, prove dead on the electical outlet or fitting, and then again check that the tester is working against a proving unit or known live source.
Here are a couple of quick references on the subject - one of them being the Fluke site, but a quick search on safe isolation will yield many more:
https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2021/proving-dead-to-keep-you-safe/ (https://martindale-electric.co.uk/2021/proving-dead-to-keep-you-safe/)
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/electrical/part-1-electrical-testing-safety-preparing-for-absence-of-voltage-testing (https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/electrical/part-1-electrical-testing-safety-preparing-for-absence-of-voltage-testing)
Proper, safe, electrical testers with GS38 compliant probes are relatively cheap to purchase, either new, or second hand on ebay. Proving units also come up frequently but, while convenient, can easily be replaced by proving the tester on a known live circuit. Second hand testers obviously need to be checked for damaged insulation, probes etc (as stipulated in the manufactured instructions for the testers), but in terms of correct functionality, the Prove - Test - Prove procedure is virtually failsafe. Most testers include a safe continuity function too - also important if the continuity testing involves mains wiring.
Sorry to be blunt on this issue, but people die every year as a result of not following a correct proving dead procedure [EDIT: In domestic electrics too, not just industrial]... and this is also the Beginners section, where correct, safe practice should always be the priority.
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Anyway, I would like to buy a DMM in the price range of up to 40 € in germany, that will be used for the following things:
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As I want to measure wall outlets, the important point for me is the input protection that is really present, and not only printed as CAT X on the case...
So CAT III should be the deal I need here, with some decent parts inside.
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Consider that if a shop is selling it for 40€, it likely only cost $10 in parts at most. Then consider that the input fuses on a real CAT III/CAT IV meter cost $6+ each, and there are usually two of them… (Sure, DMM manufacturers will be paying far less, but even if they’re just $3 each, that’s still a huge cost on a cheap meter.)
So for true CAT III, I don’t think your budget is reasonable.
Yes, thats what I also am afraid of, that lots of the dirt cheap DMMs have improper MOV/VAR equipped and things like laser cutouts on the PCB are omitted in the series due to costs.
PCB slots aren’t laser cut. They’re milled (gefräst). The only things on PCBs routinely done by laser are microvias. (Standard vias, even small ones, are drilled.) Cheap PCBs for huge volumes are made even cheaper, by just punching (stanzen) holes and slots. This is common for power supplies and calculators, for example.
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But the key is to test on a known live outlet before and after the real test.
Very valid, for any and all types of test equipment.
Why I dislike DMMs for mains work: I want my eyes focused on where my hands and the probes are going. There may not even be a way to mount the DMM if the outlet box isn't metal and the meter outfitted with a magnetic strap. So, it's dangling from the probe leads and may not even be readable. In general, I am testing for presence, not the absolute value. I don't usually even care about the reading.
An analogue meter would be better than a digital meter, since you can see the rough value (and especially changes in value) out of the corner of your eye.
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Some may scoff but the £10 Parkside PDM 300 C is CAT III 300 Volt certified by TUV. Usually appears in Lidl every 6 months or so but you'll also find it on ebay for £15 upwards. Manual at https://stesbintegrationprod.blob.core.windows.net/public/articlemanual/59d1374f-7edf-4f18-95b2-e834134348b8.pdf (https://stesbintegrationprod.blob.core.windows.net/public/articlemanual/59d1374f-7edf-4f18-95b2-e834134348b8.pdf)
TUV https://www.certipedia.com/quality_marks/1419068223?locale=en&certificate_number=50434158 (https://www.certipedia.com/quality_marks/1419068223?locale=en&certificate_number=50434158)
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Good morning Nightfire, How about you take your least favorite DMM that you have at home, and leave that at your Mother's place. And then spring for that meter that you've been wishing you had, (everyone on this forum has at least one meter that they wish they had). A bonus is that when you go to your Mother's, you will be using a meter you are familiar with
(Also, remove the batteries from that one at your Mother's, so they don't leak). :popcorn:
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But the key is to test on a known live outlet before and after the real test.
That was the most common reason apprentice sparkys failed there final practical exam,proving the tester after a test as well as before, back when we had proper trade exams.
the £10 Parkside PDM 300
I was thinking the same,
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This train of thought leads inevitably to 'show us your Mother's Electronics Bench' - my guess is, along with your own, it won't show so many handheld DMMs. :=\
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Good morning Nightfire, How about you take your least favorite DMM that you have at home, and leave that at your Mother's place. And then spring for that meter that you've been wishing you had, (everyone on this forum has at least one meter that they wish they had). A bonus is that when you go to your Mother's, you will be using a meter you are familiar with
Well, I also thought about this, but my only handheld meters at my bench currently are my Agilent U1272A and an ancient Fluke 8020A that I would keep for nostalgic reasons around- so nothing really to spare/upgrade in the process.
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Update: As we had national holiday today, I was shopping online for some small parts for the next project, and got a deal on a simple 2-pole voltage tester, that will be sufficient for domestic use (rated Cat III, 400V).
So I do not have to worry about empty batteries or safety concerns whilst probing mains voltage (wrong range or inputs jacks on multimeter due to lack of attention).
For the other part I think I will see which very cheap multimeter I can get that basically only has to serve as highend battery tester or so, when I check or repair some battery-powered stuff.
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I think you've got the safest and probably most economical solution there.
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For that use I'd have gone for any Uni-T or other recognised brand DMM for sale at 25€ plus and not worried about it. It's not as if you hear stories about people dying in their hundreds because they've used cheap DMMs to test mains voltages.
As for the seriously cheap ones, 5€ or given away with an order, with the switch contacts being no more than PCB lands accumulating copper dust as contacts are made and broken, I've heard of people having horrible surprises as the dust flashed over, but no actual injuries.
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Look out for bench multimeters in the classifieds, those things have 5-6 zeros and are used a lot in the industry so the price is good, for times when you want 0.0000 level precision. Other than that I use cheap multimeters for odd jobs with 0.00 precision.
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Can you tell me the name of the IC connecting the main IC (sd7502) with the Bluetooth module...
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Pro-tip: Get a fused one
Otherwise you can't go wrong really....
My friend has a bluetooth one that has a sort of trace feature (can show a graph of the last 1 to 10 seconds) - total solution looking for a problem.
Literally £20 for a fused on, job done.
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Pro-tip: Get a fused one
Otherwise you can't go wrong really....
My friend has a bluetooth one that has a sort of trace feature (can show a graph of the last 1 to 10 seconds) - total solution looking for a problem.
Literally £20 for a fused on, job done.
1. That’s incomplete advice at best, bad at worst. “Fused” doesn’t tell you whether it’s safe, and you most definitely can go wrong with a bad meter that does have fuses.
2. The OP already bought a suitable solution. What good is advice (whether good or bad) after the fact?
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Pro-tip: Get a fused one
Otherwise you can't go wrong really....
My friend has a bluetooth one that has a sort of trace feature (can show a graph of the last 1 to 10 seconds) - total solution looking for a problem.
Literally £20 for a fused on, job done.
1. That’s incomplete advice at best, bad at worst. “Fused” doesn’t tell you whether it’s safe, and you most definitely can go wrong with a bad meter that does have fuses.
2. The OP already bought a suitable solution. What good is advice (whether good or bad) after the fact?
That's being somewhat pedantic. Yes there are QC issues with anything - cheap multimeters are generic and often just have labels slapped on them or colours in the case.
However I posit that if you are sold a death-trap of a multimeter then you have legal recompense (you even have PayPal/Amazon/whatever recompense) because it was defective.
Also if you found a fused-or-not dog-toy "multimeter" that too would be unsuitable and happen to be called a multimeter, I trust OP can read.
If OP goes to ebay puts in multimeter and ignores the ones that are unfused, it is then for OP to go "oh wait, that one doesn't do what I need it to do" or whatever.
The "multimeters" used in garages have ECM connectors for car engines, they're niche. Perhaps OP is a mechanic and in which case again he'll know.
this is like me saying "get magnetic screwdrivers" (if we ignore that magnetic screwdriver tips are not a safety feature) and you going "there are crap magnetic tipped screwdrivers too!" - sure there are. But they're so cheap and generic that for a few quid I feel I get my money's worth before the tips nacker up.
Some people will need expensive special screwdrivers for expensive special things. The multimeter - with no qualifications - is at heart that simple many bitted set that contains most of the things needed for "generic work".
Don't overthink it.
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No problem, i actually can read the datasheets of the stuff I want to use.
But as there is more to a device than the datasheet, it is nice to profit from the experience of people that actually have worked with certain products.
And for exactly this reason I put this question in the beginner section, so that other people that might begin their journey in EE and need some budget solution or a cheap second meter, can also benefit from such a discussion.
As for meters, I actually own the following meters:
Working condition:
Fluke 45, Fluke 8600A, Fluke 8020A, Agilent U1272A, Gossen Metrawatt MA 1H
Non-Working: Agilent U1232A (mentioned in other repair thread)
So yes, I have some experience in this area, but in the real budget section below the 40 €€€ mark I have no practical experience, and unless I have the possibility to really hold a DMM in my hand and work a few minutes with it, I would not be able to tell if its budget or crap to be avoided, hence this thread.
As an update to the originating question: Some Uni-T 131 series is looking nice for the things I intend it to use for, or maybe a 136 series- moneywise they are in the region I want to spend and are available via mail order through the suppliers I usually also order other things from, so that purchases can be bundled.
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Pro-tip: Get a fused one
Otherwise you can't go wrong really....
My friend has a bluetooth one that has a sort of trace feature (can show a graph of the last 1 to 10 seconds) - total solution looking for a problem.
Literally £20 for a fused on, job done.
1. That’s incomplete advice at best, bad at worst. “Fused” doesn’t tell you whether it’s safe, and you most definitely can go wrong with a bad meter that does have fuses.
2. The OP already bought a suitable solution. What good is advice (whether good or bad) after the fact?
That's being somewhat pedantic. Yes there are QC issues with anything - cheap multimeters are generic and often just have labels slapped on them or colours in the case.
[blah blah blah]
Don't overthink it.
Oh shut up.
This forum's community places a high value on safety, especially for beginners. Your recommendation is, simply, not an adequate one.
Especially in the low price market, there are HUGE differences in meter features, performance, and safety, and the whole point of this thread is to get recommendations. "Anything with a fuse" doesn't really help.
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Pro-tip: Get a fused one
Otherwise you can't go wrong really....
My friend has a bluetooth one that has a sort of trace feature (can show a graph of the last 1 to 10 seconds) - total solution looking for a problem.
Literally £20 for a fused on, job done.
1. That’s incomplete advice at best, bad at worst. “Fused” doesn’t tell you whether it’s safe, and you most definitely can go wrong with a bad meter that does have fuses.
2. The OP already bought a suitable solution. What good is advice (whether good or bad) after the fact?
That's being somewhat pedantic. Yes there are QC issues with anything - cheap multimeters are generic and often just have labels slapped on them or colours in the case.
[blah blah blah]
Don't overthink it.
Oh shut up.
This forum's community places a high value on safety, especially for beginners. Your recommendation is, simply, not an adequate one.
Especially in the low price market, there are HUGE differences in meter features, performance, and safety, and the whole point of this thread is to get recommendations. "Anything with a fuse" doesn't really help.
py-bb has a somewhat strange (and intermittent) posting history, and has rubbed several people up the wrong way in at least one two other threads.
It is simplest to let his record speak for itself, and for any reader to draw their own conclusions...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477636/#msg4477636 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477636/#msg4477636)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477927/#msg4477927 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477927/#msg4477927) (wryly amusing in the context of tooki's response!)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477969/#msg4477969 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-own-scope/msg4477969/#msg4477969)
And https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/nooo (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/nooo)!-rs-components-what-have-you-done-ruined-my-with-new-delivery-charge/msg4478236/#msg4478236