What degree does Dave have.

[TopherTheME]

Some areas are so complicated that learning it on your own in a timely manner is overwhelming and in some cases impossible.  Making clever circuits in your garage is one thing and practicing on the forefront of research and design is another.

I'm not sure I agree completely agree with this, although it is true to some extent. As a PhD student/researcher myself, I'm constantly learning things on my own that academic faculty just can't teach me. I'm a mechanical engineer, but my research requires a lot of instrumentation that doesn't exist or isn't commercially available so I have to built it myself. A lot of what I do is optical and very very sensitive analog circuit design (talking 10's of fA and pV here) that a lot of professors and other EE PhD's at my uni just don't have much knowledge or experience with things this sensitive and can't help me without devoting a large amount of their own time. While a typical (and probably smarter) student would just change research topics, I search papers, app notes, and perform small experiments in order to learn and figure this stuff out.

More to the point, a formal education, no matter how advanced it is, isn't going to teach you everything (realistically, not even 5%) that you need to know. Whether you work at CERN doing cutting edge research, or at Sparkfun developing the next LED christmas tree, the best education is the one you give yourself. Formal schooling can save you a bit of time but its not something that can be relied upon, especially if you're doing cutting edge research.

[theoldguy]

Guys I have employed many engineers in my day so no need to tell me about what they are or not. I just was curious about what degree Dave has.

You have?

I am starting UF in two semesters and will be getting a degree in Electrical Engineering. I watch all of Dave's videos and love them. Just wondering what degree he has.

Since these two statements from you hardly match I don't believe you. But anyhow, this is a public forum. We discuss what we want, not what you want us to discuss. And since Dave couldn't be bothered to give you an answer until now, your question was probably not very relevant.

Yes I have, Just because I am Starting at UF does not mean I have not employed Engineers. I retired from the concrete industry in 06' with over 200 employees. Just because I am new you think I am a troll? Please!

[theoldguy]

Guys I am not doing this to get a job. I like education and intend on getting an EE degree. Call engineers stupid if you want to. And yes you can have a degree and be worthless.

[Time]

Guys I am not doing this to get a job. I like education and intend on getting an EE degree. Call engineers stupid if you want to. And yes you can have a degree and be worthless.

We know we have digressed from the original topic of the thread but sometimes its worth perpetuating a thread for the sake of other readers aside from the the original poster, especially if its a sought after or hot topic.

[Simon]

Guys I am not doing this to get a job. I like education and intend on getting an EE degree. Call engineers stupid if you want to. And yes you can have a degree and be worthless.

We know we have digressed from the original topic of the thread but sometimes its worth perpetuating a thread for the sake of other readers aside from the the original poster, especially if its a sought after or hot topic.

Well Dave has obviously chosen not to answer so we can let the discussion go where we choose.

Getting a degree with give you a structured learning process and ensure you have the basis of every aspect covered by it. Of course it is up to the student to take things further, If your going into the practical field I expect there are a lot of practical things a degree may not teach or not have time to teach. Theory and practice are both necessary in learning and the practical side is up to you to do and you will if your taking your degree seriously

[Chris_R]

It depends on the degree and the university.

For example a degree in surf science studied at somewhere like Luton is worth nothing

Nice to see my home town get a mention but I think it's quite funny to say that Luton Uni had such a bad reputation that they renamed it to Bedfordshire Uni in order to leave the reputation behind with the name.  Don't think it worked somehow!  Also another funny point is on A-level results day they were standing outside college telling us that we only needed 2 A-levels to get into Luton and that it wasn't too late to apply!

But I agree that having a degree doesn't make you an engineer, but I think at the moment is pretty necessary. I mean it took me about 3 months since graduating my EE Masters to find a job so I can only imagine it being much longer with no degree at all.
And admittedly I may know the maths, the programming and the design but I have no idea how to make a good design.  I think the months since I've left uni studying on my own have offered more applicable experience into good and cost effective design than just learning the theory at uni.

[Zero999]

But I agree that having a degree doesn't make you an engineer, but I think at the moment is pretty necessary. I mean it took me about 3 months since graduating my EE Masters to find a job so I can only imagine it being much longer with no degree at all.

I don't think so.

A person with no degree and 10 years experience working in the relevent field would be more employable than someone who's just walked out of university.

[David]

I am fairly certain Dave doesn't have a degree...He explains in some of his old videos. The "When I was a boy" video springs to mind, I think?

[Simon]

there was a time when people were valued for what they were and had achieved, sadly no more

[Alex]

Maybe the right question to ask is why those who have or plan to get a degree decided to do so.

It is also interesting that a couple thought that one that goes for a degree (assuming first) cannot hire engineers.

[GeoffS]

I work in IT and don't have a degree.
The lack of a degree has never been a factor in getting work, probably because I have many years of experience.
These days, industry  certifications are what employers seem to be  looking for i.e. CCNA, RHCE, VMware etc

[Neilm]

I did once work with a mechanical engineer who wouldn't listen to anyone - He had a masters degree in mechanical engineering, I only had a degree in Electronics so he didnt have to pay any attention to me at all.

The result was me pointing out that the new box he had designed (box 2) could only be fitted if boxes 3 and 5 were removed or not fitted. However, box 3 was wealed onto the side, and box 5 was what box 2 was mounted on. When the box was delivered, one of the fitteres got so fed up he dragged the know it all down to the assembly area and told him to do it himself.

It is not the quality of the degree that is of concern - it is how you have used it.

Neil

[Simon]

I did once work with a mechanical engineer who wouldn't listen to anyone - He had a masters degree in mechanical engineering, I only had a degree in Electronics so he didnt have to pay any attention to me at all.

The result was me pointing out that the new box he had designed (box 2) could only be fitted if boxes 3 and 5 were removed or not fitted. However, box 3 was wealed onto the side, and box 5 was what box 2 was mounted on. When the box was delivered, one of the fitteres got so fed up he dragged the know it all down to the assembly area and told him to do it himself.

It is not the quality of the degree that is of concern - it is how you have used it.

Neil

yes I have a few like that where I work, if they can model it on a computer they think it can be made, and I'm the mug in the middle trying to keep all departments happy

[theoldguy]

there was a time when people were valued for what they were and had achieved, sadly no more
[/quot

I still believe in that philosophy, in fact many time experience is far more valuable than a degree but experience and a degree is a wonderful thing.

[ArtemisGoldfish]

I work in IT and don't have a degree.
The lack of a degree has never been a factor in getting work, probably because I have many years of experience.
These days, industry  certifications are what employers seem to be  looking for i.e. CCNA, RHCE, VMware etc

I spent the last 2 years getting an Associates degree, and now I'm going to spend the next 2 and a half months getting a certification. I'm betting the certification is going to help me more.

[scrat]

Funny enough, Dave is still silent (even if he was reading this thread)...

As many others, I think it's not the degree that matters, it's the things you learn to achieve it, of course.
In my secondary school I learnt many practical things, and some theory about electronics, but school couldn't give me the point of view the University did, and that I find everyday very useful.

The old hand with little school and the studied with passion can get some of the same concepts from two different ways. The best knowledge, in my opinion, comes from study with practice in mind. However, I really look up to people who are able to make EE without much formal education, unless they think that one who studied is necessarily a stupid.

I always hated lessons where the teacher didn't make any examples, but at the same time many examples do not make a theory. In my experience, a theoretical point of view, where applicable, becomes the natural way you use to understand almost any physical event you see. Not much more, but it allows you to go a little deeper in less time.
Maybe someone very clever can achieve the same through experience, but it seems to me like wasting the experience of people who lived before.

[David]

Please can I refer everyone to episode #54:

[McPete]

I spent the last 2 years getting an Associates degree, and now I'm going to spend the next 2 and a half months getting a certification. I'm betting the certification is going to help me more.

Quite often what I see here is "teriary study of electronics" or words to that effect in job ads. I take that to mean that anything beyond a trade course would be considered. Another common phrase I see is "eligible for Engineers Australia Membership"... With an associate degree/diploma, that'll do nicely.

Coincidentally, I'm TRYING to get an associate degree qualification myself- I've all but finished my trade course in process control, and now that I'm working (and have a morgage!) I can't exactly drop everything and go do a full-time degree at Uni. I'm trying to get into an "Advanced Diploma" of electronics. Unfortunately, only four colleges in my state run such a course, all between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 hours travel from my home, and one of them has just dropped all the part time offerings -_-
I'm not even eligible for the main associate EE courses(which are avalible 5 minutes from my home), as they have a prerequisite of an electrican's license.
If I wasn't mad keen to actually learn something, I'd have given up ages ago -_-

UPDATE: 27/1/11
I'm into the nearest college on part time... Three subjects, one 17-hour day a week, probably for four years... It might kill me, or I might learn something. Maybe both?

[Simon]

sounds like the uk

[Storeinfinity]

Well, after viewing all replies here I still firmly hold that China mainland has the worst educational eco system, from Kindergarden all the way to PHDs now this is a country with huge academic black hole of plagiarism and people lack of common sense in life after several thousand years of upbringing experience with classic Chinese sciences in all fields.

Decades of famine after 50's since PRC founded saw a ten year Cultural revolution ruining all, the nation started to see some hope since 80s while fast capitalization stormed the coastal cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou creating mega cities with population beyond the whole Australians.

Now, it takes 200,000 RMB as an entry fee to get in a decent kindergarden where teachers focus more English than Chinese education, or too much knowledge oriented recitation, writing and math drilling etc.

Elementary kids pay a lot greater to squeeze in a decent school where kids are toiling working hard and commute to school with their wheeled schoolbags (too heavy to carry with).

Besides, kids are pushed to all kinds of extra hours on weekends or forced to drill musical instruments.

Kids have to fight for limited decent Junior highs with a heavy load of preparation within a year.

High school kids nearly know nothing besides their homework and biased (or you may say politically corrected) textbooks.
Since no renovation and creation are encouraged, all kids are taught to copy since they are less than 10 year old. Textbooks seldom see foot notes thus kids live with plagiarism, mechanic English, poor Chinese literacy and a general lack of life experience.

Thus over 90% would choose majors or colleges that they don't like and suffer. That's already good since number of colleges are far away from enough.

Every classroom since elementary schools "herds" over 60 students. For high schools over 90.

At the same time, millions of kids in every province living in remote areas do not enjoy basic facilities.

Google Chinese education and all those international grass root NGOs you would know a lot.

I was born in 1984 and enjoyed a classic Chinese education.
Unfortunately now with all the conveniences like Internet, VPN, youtube, SNS, iTunesU etc. kids born after 90s learn way less that we do. What a shame.

Uni? One supervisor can recruit over 150 PHD students at one time every year.

Master degrees are given to huge class sizes each year and nearly all are not be original and creative.

This is the black hole in my mind.
I studied two and half years Medicine before switched to Linguistics (which took over a year of bureaucracy) so I witness the vast majority of disqualified people are now operating on human beings.

Good to know, huh?

[robrenz]

Same thing applies in the mechanical realm. A person graduating from trade school as a machinist knows just enough to probably not hurt themselves in the shop.  The real learning occurs on the job as an apprentice where the rubber hits the road and a mentor passes on knowledge that has taken years to acquire.  But as Dave is an example of, the most people who are really, really good at their profession are the ones who had a burning passion as a child and were self motivated to learn. These people excel because of an insatiable interest in their field and a many year head start on those that pick a vocation in the first year of college.

[Hydrawerk]

I think that Dave Jones was born in 1973 +-1year. In 2002 he was 29 years old according to this article in Hills News.
http://www.artofinternetdating.com/reviews.htm

[zapta]

Every sane owner of a degree will tell you that the degree is "just" the admission ticket for the corresponding profession.

Well, I consider myself sane and from my experience degrees are very valuable, forcing one to learn to a depth that is rarely achieved by self learning or by on the job experience. 

I was working professionally for a few years designing boards and writing firmware with high school education only and then realized how shallow my knowledge was without all that mathematical and theoretical background.

Bottom line, they are not just tickets, they actually made me a much better engineer.

[crispus]

I think that Dave Jones was born in 1973 +-1year. In 2002 he was 29 years old according to this article in Hills News.
http://www.artofinternetdating.com/reviews.htm

It's more -1 year (~9 yo in '81) :
https://youtu.be/XpayYlJdbJk?t=209

[djacobow]

The nice thing about degrees is that they do force you to study some topics that might not interest you, but that some other, hopefully more experienced, people believe you will find useful in your career. My BSEE included modern physics, a lot of calculus and some differential equations, formal treatment of signals (s domain, etc), economics, statistics, writing, and even engineering ethics.

Of course, they can't make you LEARN any of that, but you have to pass the classes.

You can do a lot of electronic design without knowing anything about ANY of those things, but a) they have been useful at various times to varying degree and b) even when not, I think they make my "picture" of the world a bit richer and I might be a better engineer for it.

Overall, I'm glad to have had all those classes.