Does LM358 need a negative supply voltage?

[awesomechapro]

Hi, I am currently making an ac signal inverter with an lm358. I was wondering if I need the -5v supply voltage or if I could just connect it to ground instead? This is the circuit I am using:

[magic]

Hard to tell without knowing what the input signal is going to be, but as a matter of fact, an opamp cannot output voltages lower than its negative supply and that will be a problem if the input goes below ground.

[Kleinstein]

One of the 2 OPs will need the negative supply to have a negative output. So this circuit would need a negative supply.

[awesomechapro]

The input signal is an audio signal, and does go below ground. So do I need to connect pin 5 of the lm358 to -5v?

[not1xor1]

The input signal is an audio signal, and does go below ground. So do I need to connect pin 5 of the lm358 to -5v?

yes... unless you set input to 1/2 DC supply and use capacitors at input and output

[Terry Bites]

It does.
Heres an atricle on what you can do with a single suplly if thats all you have. https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/sloa030?keyMatch=SLOA030

[Kleinstein]

For the given circuit it does not matter which signal (except fixed 0) - it would allways need a negative ouput from one of the OPs. The signal just decides which OP would need the negative voltage. So the output would be essentially always be near zero.

For audio the LM358 is a really bad choice, as it shown lots of cross over distorion. With a negative supply one could as well use an RC4558 or similar.

[rstofer]

Google for 'rail splitter' or 'rail splitting' and you'll get something like this:

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/tutorials/4/4344.html

Notice that there are physical devices designed as 'rail splitters'.  The advantage is lower output impedance than you might want to get with low resistor values as a voltage divider.

Be careful when you select the voltages for the rails.  Check "Output Voltage - High Limit" (page 4) and you'll see that for a 5V single rail design, you can't get above 3.3V and for "Output Voltage - Low Limit" you can't get below 20 mV.

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/lm358-d.pdf

[awesomechapro]

Although if I added a dc offset to the signal wouldn't I need to then subtract that dc offset again at the end with another op amp? That would still require a negative voltage input? I would prefer to have only a positive supply voltage but I need an ac signal output. So what op amp should I use for an ac output?

[rstofer]

That's why you see single rail amplifiers with capacitor coupled input and output.  You set up a DC bias on the input to center the output and then couple in AC signals through a capacitor.  You remove the DC in the output with another capacitor before the next stage (or whatever).

[Zero999]

The op-amp needs to be biased, at half the supply voltage.

[rstofer]

That's an excellent page, thanks for posting it!