Author Topic: What is a SILISTOR ?  (Read 4354 times)

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Offline BravoV

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What is a SILISTOR ?
« on: October 30, 2018, 02:11:30 am »

Click to enlarge.

Recent visit to local recycling shop, bought this, and yes, I'm a hoarder  :palm:, as its dirt cheap < $3, and also never seen anything like this before, so I grabbed it.

Google results don't show much, although its sort of thermistor, but I get it that it is sort of temperature sensor, cmiiw.  :-//

Attached below other various angle shots with TO220 as reference size.

Its 3 terminals device, and looking at the clipped wires, it must be used in industrial or big machinery, isn't it ? Or even 4 terminals (including the metal chasis mount) ?  :-//

Any insight , comments about this component, or where its suitably used at will be appreciated.

Offline bitseeker

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 02:31:56 am »
Never heard nor seen one before. Silistor sounds like its resistance varies with silliness.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 02:39:42 am »
Never heard nor seen one before. Silistor sounds like its resistance varies with silliness.

LOL  :-DD, had the same thought when I saw it too.

Offline ArthurDent

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 02:51:02 am »
It looks like an old high power silicon carbide varistor (MOV)
 

Online xrunner

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 02:53:35 am »
Any insight , comments about this component, or where its suitably used at will be appreciated.

Connect it to one of the Chinese transistor testers it'll tell ya.  :)
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 03:32:26 am »
Never heard nor seen one before. Silistor sounds like its resistance varies with silliness.

 :-DD Begging for an electronics version of a  Monte Python sketch. The Ministry of Silly Resistors.

 

Online rs20

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2018, 05:04:13 am »
Connect it to one of the Chinese transistor testers it'll tell ya.  :)

It sounds like you're saying this as a joke, but very often the output of the Chinese components testers will be extremely illuminating*, and valuable to include in a thread like this, even if its guess isn't immediately correct. Unfortunately, this isn't one of those times, it'll just appear as a short circuit (assuming this thing is a 100V MOV.)

* I once put a (4-terminal) optocoupler into a 3 terminal component checker, and it reported back that it was an SCR. This seemed funny and silly at first, until I realised that the configuration I had created by reducing the 4 terminals to 3 had created something that behaved very very much like an SCR (the transistor powers the LED, which sustains the light keeping the transistor on, hence the latching behaviour.)
 
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Offline daqq

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 05:59:35 am »
If you put two in series, do you get a serioustor?
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Offline MK14

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 07:01:12 am »
I knew this, and didn't even slightly use google (and I never joke). (ok, you had me, I hadn't heard of it either).

Quote
Silistor:   This type of PTC thermistor uses a semiconductor as its base material and it is characterised by a linear characteristic. As a result this type of device is used in temperature sensors. The silistor PTC thermistor is generally manufactured from doped silicon. It iexhibits a resistance / temperature characteristic that is virtually linear, the exact characteristic depending upon the semiconductor used and the level of doping.[/size]

https://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/resistor/thermistor/ptc-positive-temperature-coefficient.php
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2018, 09:56:02 am »
Strange that it would have voltage and current ratings, like maybe it's a current limiting device.

I don't know how old the usage is, of the silicon PTC term.  This is, I guess, 60s or 70s Japanese, so it's probably hard finding references over here to begin with, let alone online...

Would be strange to have a PTC, that's three terminal, and suitable for some power I would guess.  It's not a polyfuse style device -- if it is a PTC, it's not that kind, but a softer slope (R roughly PTAT).

Some electrical tests should tell what it is, or at least hint at it.

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Offline BravoV

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2018, 10:19:16 am »
It looks like an old high power silicon carbide varistor (MOV)

Looks really similar, but this Silistor has 3 terminals, while that MOV even has the similar 2 red discs sandwiched, still its a 2 terminals device as the outer clamping metals are connected.

Offline BravoV

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2018, 10:21:29 am »
Strange that it would have voltage and current ratings, like maybe it's a current limiting device.

I don't know how old the usage is, of the silicon PTC term.  This is, I guess, 60s or 70s Japanese, so it's probably hard finding references over here to begin with, let alone online...

Would be strange to have a PTC, that's three terminal, and suitable for some power I would guess.  It's not a polyfuse style device -- if it is a PTC, it's not that kind, but a softer slope (R roughly PTAT).

Some electrical tests should tell what it is, or at least hint at it.

Tim

Tim, any hint what or how to test ?

Most thermal sensor (non active component/semiconductor) devices have only 2 terminals right ?

Offline MK14

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2018, 10:22:01 am »
Would be strange to have a PTC, that's three terminal

If you look carefully at the picture, it has two terminals each. But there are apparently two of the PTC (or whatever it is) devices, sharing one terminal, common to both of them.

Maybe they have different temperature settings (coefficients etc), between the two PTCs, so that it can be used to regulate the temperature of something, between two set points, or something.
I.e. one temp for turn on, another temp (i.e. hysteresis between them) to turn back off again.

But there are thousands of other speculative options at this point.
 

Offline glarsson

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2018, 11:50:01 am »
Very large for a temperature sensor. Why make it this large and have to wait hours for a reading?
 

Offline ArthurDent

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2018, 01:07:53 pm »
SILIcon carbide variSTOR or what we call today an MOV. These large bulk ones were first made by GE for industrial use and the smaller ones that look like an orange disc capacitor followed for use in equipment for home use. The disks could be wired in parallel for higher surge capacity like the one I showed above or could be used on a house split 240 VAC to have one from each 120 line to neutral like the 3 wire one shown in the first photo. There are large ones still used on power poles near transformers and look like tall finned insulators. Here's another photo of one with 2 leads and one with multiple connections.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2018, 02:21:53 pm »
There seem to be datasheets online (not necessarily the device the OP found, but more modern ones).
So Silistor seems to be a brand name.
Which is a type of Varistor, if (Silistor) is a brand name, but PTC if (Silistor) is used as a generic name.

https://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/download.php?id=cb2132fb1bb8b58e2f644ad06486a8c6dc1e4e&type=O&term=silistor

There seem to be lots of datasheets, I only looked at one of them, linked to above.

https://www.datasheetarchive.com/silistor-datasheet.html

tl;dr
It seems to be a MOV/Varistor. Hence the 100V/20mA values on it.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 02:24:46 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline drussell

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 03:13:24 pm »
I agree that the Silistor is a brand/product name, in this case apparently made by Ishizuka Denshi.  Ok, that makes sense, but if it is a MOV type device, what is up with the 20 mA rating specification?

There are Japanese patents granted to Ishizuka Denshi for various things relating to temperature measurement like "method wherein an intermittent signal is applied to a temperature measuring part to operate a temperature detection element" and ones dealing with "thin film thermistor," "infrared detector," "infrared sensor," "production of temperature sensor," etc.

Perhaps a little more digging in to what this company traditionally focused on, what their product range included, etc. would yield some likely useful information.

Google Patents search for patents assigned to Ishizuka Denshi KK
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 03:18:12 pm »
Tim, any hint what or how to test ?

Most thermal sensor (non active component/semiconductor) devices have only 2 terminals right ?

Sure: just for basics, see if it has a meaningful resistance.  If not, then capacitance.  Test it under incrementally higher voltage/current, see if it's nonlinear.  If it's looking more like a MOV, try a higher voltage supply (200V+?) with a series resistor (100k?) and see if it has a reasonable varistor voltage.

I don't know what the 20mA means, but 100V is mains over in JP so it could be that it's rated by nominal AC RMS, like most (many?) MOVs are, and you should expect a Vz somewhat over 150V.

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Online Gyro

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 04:08:27 pm »
Looking at the tabs, there are a pair of same colour and gauge wires clamped to each tab. That would probably support the idea of some sort of 'across the line' type usage.
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Offline drussell

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 05:46:40 pm »
Looking at the tabs, there are a pair of same colour and gauge wires clamped to each tab. That would probably support the idea of some sort of 'across the line' type usage.

If it is an "across the line" device, what does the 20 mA specify?

I believe it is a non-linear resistance element of some kind, but I'm not so sure it is some kind of surge supressor or spike arrestor.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2018, 05:51:34 pm »
If it is an "across the line" device, what does the 20 mA specify?

I believe it is a non-linear resistance element of some kind, but I don't think it is likely some kind of surge supressor.

If you accept that I might be a million miles out and totally wrong.

When I read through a bunch of the datasheets, by that brand, the 20mA's, seems to be what we would call (in English), the maximum continuous current, for the device.
Which follows through logically, because the datasheet was (for the device I was looking at), around 2.9 Watts max dissipation, at around 100 volts, hence 20 mA's doesn't sound too unreasonable.

Although this might be an unexpected parameter, don't forget these are probably components from a rather long time ago, different manufacturer so does their datasheets differently.

Also there are even graphs, showing the current (in mA's vs highish voltages).

I'm not clear if these currents (20 mA's) are suppose to flow, because these are old non-linear resistor devices, rather than modern MOVs, or if it is unwanted leakage currents, increasing at higher voltages, because they are very old devices.

Or I'm completely wrong. (Because the datasheets are rather brief and seem to be Japanese originally, I'm having partial difficulty understanding them).
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 06:02:40 pm »
That's 20 Mega Ampere, not 20 mili Ampere.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 06:28:38 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline drussell

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 06:10:47 pm »
That's 20 Mega Ampere, not 20 mili Ampere.

Could be.  We should have BravoV test it as such.   ;D

Must provide video, though...   ;)
 

Offline MK14

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 06:17:33 pm »
That's 20 Mega Ampere, not 20 mili Ampere.

You have got to be joking!

I am talking about the maximum allowable continuous currents, for a device with something like 145 volts across it and a limited maximum dissipation of something like 2.9 Watts (stated in the datasheet).

20mA at 145 volts = 0.02 x 150 = 2.9 Watts.

You seem to be talking about the maximum peak currents.

I was seeing similar devices in the datasheets, rather than the exact one the OP has. But it is by the same manufacturer.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: What is a SILISTOR ?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 06:23:10 pm »
Not joking, just mislead by the capital M, sorry.
Found some datasheet.

P.S. I missed a few posts, including the one with your link to the datasheet. :palm:
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 06:29:37 pm by RoGeorge »
 


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