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what is the most relevant programming language for ee?
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bd139:
Java is an object-oriented language.

The defining characteristics of an object-oriented language are polymorphism, inheritance and encapsulation all of which Java support and allow you to strictly enforce. There are many mechanisms in which you can build this which is probably where your understanding breaks down here. The point being that whether they are classes, prototypes or actors, it's still object-oriented by definition.

Package orientation is an organisational concept rather than a language structure. This is a meta-system outside of the language implementation.

I think you have your arse and your mouth confused.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: Crazy_Pete on November 06, 2018, 10:05:07 am ---Xi Xi
Crazy Pete

--- End quote ---

I've not bothered to quote your rant, since it is too bizarre and rambling to merit a response.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: bd139 on November 06, 2018, 10:36:33 am ---I think you have your arse and your mouth confused.

--- End quote ---

Oh, that's a little impolite. OTOH since I'm pretty deaf, if I could see him I would ask him to stand up.
bd139:
I'm sure you could hear him with all that caps lock :)


--- Quote from: tggzzz on November 06, 2018, 09:08:44 am ---
--- Quote ---3. C# exists because there needed to be a higher level OO language for non systems programming.

--- End quote ---

C# came into existence principally because MS was losing mindshare to Java. In attempting to move into the OS arena, they had to introduce the "unsafe" keyword. In avoiding HotSpot patents they opted for ahead-of-time (partial) optimisation which has to be done on every machine as part of the installation process - with obvious consequences.

Why do I say that with some confidence? Because I remember being at a talk (in HPLabs) by Anders Hjelsberg shortly before C# was unleashed on the world. Everybody at the meeting was underwhelmed with Hjelsberg's responses, and I don't think anybody bothered to evaluate C# seriously. (And yes, they could easily have chosen to do so).

--- End quote ---

That's a fair assertion. The main problem was that they were losing Visual Basic market share to something else at the time. Pre-.Net Visual Basic sucked badly (post-.Net slightly less but still sucks). It wasn't a modern language really. Thus they needed something competitive. What with the whole J++ disaster they were looking pretty bad then. The original .Net 1.0 and 1.1 releases were pretty poor (better than Visual Basic) but the moment they stepped on the generics, without the whole boxing problem inside the JVM, with .Net 2.0 things were looking up.

If they had done then what they are doing now with .Net Core, I reckon Java would be dust.


Back on topic, the main point is pick the path of least resistance and go with the flow when dealing with any task or platform.
brucehoult:

--- Quote from: Crazy_Pete on November 06, 2018, 05:29:04 am ---Just an aside, Java (despite the ignorance of those who wrote it) is not an OO language.    The level of encapsulation in Java is the Package, not the class.   Java was written by a guy who didn't understand the difference the in the first place and that has led to some weird java code.

--- End quote ---

Accusing James Gosling of being just some guy ignorant of what OO is is ... just ... incredibly uninformed. Words fail me.

I'll just say this: object-orientation and encapsulation are ABSOLUTELY ORTHOGONAL CONCEPTS.
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